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Rocko Bonaparte posted:FWIW it looks like my old cob oven performs quite similarly to this brick one. I'm kind of surprised that it isn't dramatically better. I would read stuff on Forno Bravo about these ovens holding their heat for four days. Mine's down to 225 Fahrenheit the morning after. When I inevitably move, what I think I'll do for oven #3 is build a cob dome with a brick landing; I need something more stable for mounting the flue and a front door. My original oven had huge problems at the mouth with the cob wanting to break down. 2 factors - heat sink (ie: material + amount of it) and insulation. Modern oven insulation blankets are superb in comparison to old, but need to be installed almost perfectly from what I gather. Also many times the ground under the oven floor bricks isn't insulated properly from what I've seen, so there's a ton of loss there. After running my old cob oven for a couple of years now, I'm confident in saying I didn't use enough straw in the cob and the oven leaks heat like mad, but the 1 ton of clay makes up for it. (Walls are around 12" thick) But I only need it to run for a couple of hours for a single meal, so suits me well. I'm also starting to have issues with the mouth breaking down too. Too much moisture is being absorbed from the doorway when it's not in use.
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Nov 1, 2017 22:05
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unknown posted:2 factors - heat sink (ie: material + amount of it) and insulation. It's generally getting warmer than ambient but it's a far cry from hot. I think it was getting up to 90-100 degree Fahrenheit on the first full firing I did when I had finally moved the coals and fire to one side of the oven for baking. Although TBH my old cob over didn't do this. On that one, I had actually gotten some appliance-grade mineral wool sheets and laid that over before I did a layer of perlcrete. Some masonry folks thought it was dubious and the wool might have broken down by now, and I won't know because I moved out ~4 years ago. It makes me wonder though. quote:But I only need it to run for a couple of hours for a single meal, so suits me well. I'm also starting to have issues with the mouth breaking down too. Too much moisture is being absorbed from the doorway when it's not in use. I'll say that building a half-drum of bricks at the mouth of the oven is not a huge deal. That was far from a time sink for me.
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Nov 2, 2017 01:32
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my pizza game is getting pretty strong. im gonna be sad when this year's batch of sauce runs out. 
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Nov 3, 2017 17:09
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What do you guys think of the sauce in this episode of Hot Ones? I made it last week and thought it was the best drat pizza sauce I've ever tasted. https://youtu.be/q9erQqb_o8w I salted to taste and reduced it for quite a while. I used a decent dry cotes du Rhone, about a 1/2 cup.
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Nov 10, 2017 06:36
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Made a couple    My nearest supermarkets don't stock mozzarella di bufala, just the cow stuff, so I've been buying em in 1kg buckets and just freezing the extra cheese. Changes the texture a tiny bit but the flavour is fine - when I defrost it, i put it in a little bit of full cream milk and a pinch of salt
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Nov 10, 2017 22:29
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goku i won't do what u tell me
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my dude
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Nov 10, 2017 22:36
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Got a baking steel and it rules.  the crust is this recipe with the sugar cut back to 1 tbsp and given more time to ferment in the fridge (other plans came up sunday night so it turned into monday's dinner). I need to make the 72 hr dough baking steel talks about on their blog, but been able to plan ahead well enough for that.
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Dec 5, 2017 20:08
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I hate the pizza steel dough recipe. Way too wet. Use the Pizza Bible base recipe, it's far better IMO.
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Dec 5, 2017 21:52
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snyprmag posted:Got a baking steel and it rules. Great looking pie. Was planning on having India food for dinner. Not anymore. Pizza it is! ShaneB posted:I hate the pizza steel dough recipe. Way too wet. Use the Pizza Bible base recipe, it's far better IMO. No such thing as too wet! (Pizza Bible recipe is great too)
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Dec 5, 2017 21:57
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Doom Rooster posted:Great looking pie. Was planning on having India food for dinner. Not anymore. Pizza it is! I could never form the dough well at all. As soon as I went to the Bible recipe I was making pizzeria-quality pies, at least in appearance.
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Dec 5, 2017 23:51
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Yeah, lower hydration is definitely easier to work with. As a Neapolitan obsessive, I joke about always wanting more water. In reality it's just a style-specific thing. An American style pie with 65+% hydration would be super weird, if you could even work something that big and get it off of the peel.
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Dec 5, 2017 23:54
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I use the pizza steel/72h 70% hydration dough recipe. My oven only goes to 350°c so the high water content stops it from becoming a biscuit. I find its a lot easier to work (and less sloppy) with if the dough is cold rather than room temperature. I use less salt as well, overdid the salt once and it turned into a goopy mess.
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Dec 6, 2017 00:29
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Aren't neopolitan pies usually super low hydration, like < 60%?
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Dec 6, 2017 05:29
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66.6
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Dec 6, 2017 15:34
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Neapolitan should be as high a hydration as you feel comfortable working with. Some of the big names in Naples are running 68%+ I generally run 64% at home, but where I live is super humid so I figure that accounts for another %ish.
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Dec 6, 2017 15:45
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Ah, I was reading in some book (maybe Forkish's recent one on pizza) that because neopolitan pies are cooked at such high heat, it's actually better to have a lower hydration because there isn't enough time in the oven for all of the water in a higher hydration dough to get converted to steam. Something along those lines, at least.
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Dec 6, 2017 19:08
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That could be a problem if your crust is way too big, but that's not usually an issue. Something about the direct radiant energy from the heat source penetrating into the dough and cooking it inside out in addition to just the high ambient temp.
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Dec 6, 2017 19:20
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Some tasty looking pizzas up there, good job everyone! Here a few of mine from the last few months - lovely iPhone shots of a recent margherita that spotted up really nice.   These are a couple from my last public event I did (if you're in Vegas, hit me up). Sold 40 pizzas that day! Awesome turnout.   Three from a "moved into a house with a dope backyard" party.    Random film shots.  
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Dec 6, 2017 19:50
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Livin' the dream! Very nice stuff. It took me a second here... I thought that the orange things were just straight up habaneros, and was briefly VERY impressed, then saw that they were just wrinkly tomatoes.
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Dec 6, 2017 20:07
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Doom Rooster posted:Livin' the dream! Very nice stuff. I have friends who are at the level, but not me, ha! I fucks with them calabrian chili peppers but that's about it.
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Dec 6, 2017 20:11
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holey moley that food porn 
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Dec 6, 2017 20:18
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Doom Rooster posted:Neapolitan should be as high a hydration as you feel comfortable working with. Some of the big names in Naples are running 68%+ Mikey Purp posted:Ah, I was reading in some book (maybe Forkish's recent one on pizza) that because neopolitan pies are cooked at such high heat, it's actually better to have a lower hydration because there isn't enough time in the oven for all of the water in a higher hydration dough to get converted to steam. Something along those lines, at least. I had read somewhere that there's some EU legal classification for Neapolitan pizza that calls for 57% hydration. I tried that for my last run through along with using type 00 flour. I could not remember what I used previously from years ago when I last had a pizza oven. It did come out a more dry than I was used to, but the results were much better. I had been using bread flour, a wetter mix, and even more gluten. The result was a really thick, chewy pizza that kept wanting to pull back into a thicker crust after I stretched it. People weren't complaining, but the result wasn't my objective. The drier mix without the additional gluten kept its shape and cooked more thoroughly. I have to emphasize though that I am running these through a 900-degree Fahrenheit oven for 60 seconds. I vaguely recall once using a comically wet dough as a science project; I basically encased it in flour on the rolling mat, and I had to roll it because it was too hard to stretch instead. The result was Bubble City. The kind of pizza thickness I'm aiming for here is one where I can start to see the cutting guidelines on my rolling mat under the dough, and that's without having to roll it.
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Dec 6, 2017 20:21
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Huh, this is super weird. I did some digging, and according to the 2004 proposal from the Italian government to the EU to define Neapolitan Pizza: THE METHOD OF PRODUCTION OF THE SPECIALITA’ TRADITIONALE GARANTITA “PIZZA NAPOLETANA”: "The characteristic “merceologiche” of the flour used for “Pizza Napoletana” allow it to absorb from 50 to 55% of its weight in water to reach the optimal “point of pasta.” The resulting dough can be individualized by the abilities of the individual pizzaiolo." The recipe that they provide is actually 1 liter of water to 1800g flour, which is 55.5% hydration. But I have literally never seen or heard of a pizzaiolo from Naples using less than 64%, and the current crop of star pizzaiolos are all doing 68-70%, so I have no freakin' idea what to believe. My whole world is shaken to its very core! Edit: Yeah, Ciro Salvo is THE guy right now, and he's using right at 67%. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBTa3n_0N-A Doom Rooster fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Dec 6, 2017 |
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Dec 6, 2017 20:55
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It's almost like a bunch of Italians got together to propose a law specifically so they could break it. Edit: I suppose I owe it to myself to try a high hydration while keeping the gluten fairly low. My one fear is that my wife will see a thin layer of wet in the pizza and declare it undercooked.
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Dec 6, 2017 22:31
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Maybe they purposefully put out a bad recipe, so that they can keep all the good pizzas for themselves, and they'll drive tourism that way. They're only 10% hydration away from losing millions in pizza tourist revenue! Edit: Rocko Bonaparte posted:Edit: I suppose I owe it to myself to try a high hydration while keeping the gluten fairly low. My one fear is that my wife will see a thin layer of wet in the pizza and declare it undercooked. The only time I have ever ended up with even slightly undercooked dough is when as an experiment, I cooked a pie while my oven was hot enough to register an error on my IR thermometer. It reads up to 1050f. The pizza was in there for about 30 seconds, and I never let it sit in one place for more than 5 seconds. I ended up with a little bit of a doughy spot on the on the inside corner of the crust. As long as you keep the pizza thin, and the crust not crazy big, and cook under 1000f, you'll be fine. Doom Rooster fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Dec 6, 2017 |
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Dec 6, 2017 22:40
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Well for what it's worth, I think part of what makes some of these dudes THE DUDES in the Naples pizza scene right now is exactly that they are breaking the traditional rules. From what I understand, Neapolitan pizza has always been such a regimented (albeit not mandated) product, something as simple as upping the hydration level of the dough is probably considered outright rebellion by some people.
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Dec 6, 2017 22:45
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Mikey Purp posted:Well for what it's worth, I think part of what makes some of these dudes THE DUDES in the Naples pizza scene right now is exactly that they are breaking the traditional rules. From what I understand, Neapolitan pizza has always been such a regimented (albeit not mandated) product, something as simple as upping the hydration level of the dough is probably considered outright rebellion by some people. Absolutely true. The two "bad boys of Neapolitan pizza!" right now do two things. One ups the hydration to 72%!!! The other just has an oversized crust. That's it. That makes them rebels. Even all of the oldschool classics like Da Michele are between 64%-68% though.
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Dec 6, 2017 22:51
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Doom Rooster posted:The only time I have ever ended up with even slightly undercooked dough is when as an experiment, I cooked a pie while my oven was hot enough to register an error on my IR thermometer. It reads up to 1050f. The pizza was in there for about 30 seconds, and I never let it sit in one place for more than 5 seconds. I ended up with a little bit of a doughy spot on the on the inside corner of the crust. Yes I have pondered just prebaking one a little and, topping it, and then finishing it. I'm waiting until I have the full outdoor kitchen done to really mess with that because it's very tedious to try that right now. As far as temperatures go, you haven't lived until you've set a pizza on fire that wasn't touching the fire.
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Dec 7, 2017 01:36
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:As far as temperatures go, you haven't lived until you've set a pizza on fire that wasn't touching the fire. I do this as a party trick when it's slow. Stoking up the oven till the deck pushing is 950 or so and watching the dough flour more or less vaporize into fire instantly is fun. Whoooosh! The Burning Ring of Pizza fire is a sight to behold.
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Dec 7, 2017 02:02
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Well, all this talk about pizza hydration and neapolitan pizza rockstars compelled me to order a copy of The Neapolitan Pizza. A Scientific Guide about the Artisanal Process based on some videos I saw of Enzo Coccia. I had to order it from Italian Amazon and triple check that it was the English version. I think there's a more official bookstore but the page didn't translate as well IMO and it was coming up more expensive. Them Euros, man.
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Dec 8, 2017 01:23
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Made a couple pies for dinner last night. Margherita  Profile of the marinara 
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Dec 21, 2017 19:10
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I'm a little bummed that after moving, I've gone from a compact electric range with a top element broiler, to a gas range with a broiler drawer and a 500ºF max temp. The steel still works great on the underside, but my tops are not ending up great in the middle or at the top of the oven. I tried throwing the pies into the broiler to finish once the bottom crisped up, and that helped a little. Any other suggestions? I have a stone as well, if I put that on a rack just above the steel would that help at all?
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Dec 21, 2017 20:35
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I have the same problem, and I use the broiler drawer. I've been thinking about a second steel, but I find that the broiler drawer produces fine results, it's just incrementally more annoying to move the pizza around. Fake edit: I also parbake my crusts
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Dec 21, 2017 21:18
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You could do pan pizzas for a year or however long
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Dec 21, 2017 21:20
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got the round pizza steel / griddle for christmas so it's time to step up my pizza game 
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Dec 26, 2017 01:07
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Buddy of mine is opening up a dope little slice joint in less than a month. I've been going by to help him with some R&D and to take photos...and eat pizza. Cross section shot of his NY slice  Detroit style triple pepperoni  Detroit stlye with kale, sausage, and mushrooms   Grandma pie with sausage and mushrooms  I brought by one of my neapolitan sourdough balls to cook up in his oven, really cool crust and cornicione when it came out 
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Jan 13, 2018 01:06
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God drat that New York slice looks amazing
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Jan 13, 2018 01:17
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Fuckin yessssss What's a grandma pie? I'll post some pics of the next pizza I make on the baking steel. I'm so drat happy with the thing, totally fuckin owns.
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Jan 13, 2018 01:19
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BraveUlysses posted:Fuckin yessssss Can't wait to see them pics when you get your steel! Grandma pie is a NYC thing, a slight variant on a Sicilian pizza. It's an olive oil covered square sheet pan pizza, dough stretched out on it and covered with mozz first then sauce. Grandma pie doesn't have as long a fermentation as a Sicilian and makes for a different kind of dough when cooked in the oven. It's an East Coast/NYC pizza for sure, slowly making its way out West (apparently - this is what I'm hearing from the pizza dudes I talk to). It's good!
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Jan 13, 2018 18:50
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those slices tho. drat.
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Jan 13, 2018 19:24
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