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Did I miss news of relief/remediation efforts in Nova Sol?
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Jan 15, 2018 20:48
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Zurai posted:As RA Rx said, patently false. Putin hosed us over hard. He died. After Putinova took over, there have been no incidents and no political hardball. Until we intentionally took aim at her, Putinova showed no inclination whatsoever towards anything but playing in her own sandbox. Putina has absolutely played hardball with us. See refusal to pull out of Ranginui post Korbalev. And for all the people can bang on about how she was a reformer, she was a poo poo reformer since nothing actually got reformed. Ceres is still (at least until now) firmly under the jackboot, the military command is not loyal to her or competent, ect, ect. She might be a true hearted reformer or she might not be. Either way she hasn't produced any concrete results so we have no use for her. POOL IS CLOSED posted:Did I miss news of relief/remediation efforts in Nova Sol? Pretty sue Nova Sol is on its own until this all blows over 
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Jan 15, 2018 20:50
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Now to be fair, her attempted reforms were probably foiled by the hardliners. Based on the riot cops actually making a modicum of effort not to kill people last update, I'd say she might be legit. But OTOH, she also had power-armored jackboots ready to go sweep the streets the second things turned hot, so she's still very much her father's child. And yeah, all the ideals in the world don't matter if you can't actually get results.
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Jan 15, 2018 21:05
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Crazycryodude posted:Now to be fair, her attempted reforms were probably foiled by the hardliners. Based on the riot cops actually making a modicum of effort not to kill people last update, I'd say she might be legit. But OTOH, she also had power-armored jackboots ready to go sweep the streets the second things turned hot, so she's still very much her father's child. And yeah, all the ideals in the world don't matter if you can't actually get results. You say that as though we don't have power-armoured jackboots ready to sweep the streets if, say, Mars First decides to start some more poo poo. A government that doesn't have the ability and will to gently caress up anybody who wants to overthrow them doesn't stay in power very long. Also, didn't Saros say a while back that her reform efforts were stymied by us working to destabilise her government from the get-go?
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Jan 15, 2018 21:12
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Oh we totally have mundane-armored jackboots with riot shields and batons ready to go at a second's notice just like any competent government. I doubt that Marines in power armor with live ammo are ready to deploy at a moment's notice to Olympus Square Park and start shooting protesters, though.
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Jan 15, 2018 21:15
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Since someone's equipping malcontents with trans-Newtonian wargear, maybe they should be.
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Jan 15, 2018 21:18
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Pharnakes posted:Putina has absolutely played hardball with us. See refusal to pull out of Ranginui post Korbalev. Saros mentioned earlier that Putinas reform efforts were mainly stiffled because she lost a considerable ammount of political power back when we first revealed our information about jump sickness to the public. As the whole interstellar research was her pet project, this revelation seriously weakened her vs. the hardline admirals. Why should she have pulled out of Ranganui, which both the hardline admirals would ve seen as further weakness and them being there was signed in a treaty anyway?
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Jan 15, 2018 21:26
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Z the IVth posted:The plan basically amounted to shooting ourselves in the foot and doing ??? and subsequently hoping for profit. UNACCEPTABLE Better hope the Reft Obturator Foramen doesn't have any convenient nooks and hiding places for liberated nuclear warheads to sneak their way into. Sure would be a shame if blasphemers against dogmocracy, Mars, Facility, the Sun, and all that we hold most sacred got what was coming to them.
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Jan 15, 2018 21:46
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Pharnakes posted:Pretty sure Nova Sol is on its own until this all blows over Ah, but should it be? Send Martian relief to Nova Sol via Terran shipping proxies. We've been in the business of creating friendly splinter states from the oppressed shards of our enemies... why stop now?
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Jan 15, 2018 22:29
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If we are going to send relief to Nova Sol (which we probably should) why the hell would we do it under anyone's banner but our own?
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Jan 15, 2018 23:21
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Not Alex posted:Ah, but should it be? This is an interesting plan if nothing else, but we kind of have the more immediate problem of a Terran fleet bearing down on Ceres in the midst of a full-on civil war. Priorities, dude.
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Jan 15, 2018 23:29
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Pharnakes posted:If we are going to send relief to Nova Sol (which we probably should) why the hell would we do it under anyone's banner but our own? Dr. Snark posted:This is an interesting plan if nothing else, but we kind of have the more immediate problem of a Terran fleet bearing down on Ceres in the midst of a full-on civil war. Agreed, Ceres is all hands on deck, immediate crisis. But I suspect the people who plan fleet actions and the ones who plan disaster relief are different departments. It can be concurrent without leeching resources from the priority project. Plus right now is great time to sneak stuff through. Everyone has bigger fish to fry. And we need eyes on in Nova Sol to make sure there's no military coup or something. Not Alex fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Jan 15, 2018 |
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Jan 15, 2018 23:44
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 The votes are in and it looks like we will be deploying the Newfleet. Available are the freshly created 3rd and 4th Cruiser and Destroyer squadrons commanded by the newly promoted General 'Space Comrade First Class' Sebmojo. 4th Fleet with 2 Battleships, 2 Light carriers and escorts [all old-model] is prepared to back them up [fleet speed 3000kps]. Ready in their transports are three brigades of the Martian fifth division if you should require ground pounders [troop transport speed is 2000kps].   9th Feb 0300hrs  The Terran force has altered course towards the west and is set to not come within 120m km of Mars. The only real likely destination at this point is still Ceres, it seems that they may have decided to take a slightly longer route.  The four squadrons of Newfleet are ready to deploy. At 4300kps fleet speed they are much faster than the Terran ships which generally average 2700-3000kps for military ships and the transports a mediocre 1650kps.  As thread opinion seems divided on the exact plan I would ask that people put forward proposals as to how to use our forces to be voted on. Do we want to intercept the Terran reinforcements? Engage the ships currently over Ceres? Both at once? Finally what rules of engagement are to be followed? Bear in mind more aggressive moves will likely provoke a bigger Terran response. Your individual maneuver units are as follows:
Please give your plan a name for the voting! Saros fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Jan 16, 2018 |
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Jan 16, 2018 00:07
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Straight to Ceres and kick the Terrans out. Make sure to bring colliers. We should still arrive before UT due to having a shorter path available and I'd rather have full magazines for fending off the reinforcements than more repair time. We should uh, probably talk to the Ceres Freedom Fighters and new civilian leadership before blowing ships up in orbit of Ceres though. What's that buzzword? Buy-in? Yeah, gut Ceres buy in to our helping ensure their liberty. ROE - give UT a chance to surrender their ships and then shoot them until they do. We want to whittle down UT's tonnage advantage, so even if they offer to leave Ceres orbit, we probably shouldn't let them. Pretty evil, but them's the break when the crazy ( and cowardly when it comes to aliens) murderhawk faction is in control. Manuever units: May as well bring all our toys Keep 'em together. We want to whittle down UT's tonnage advantage. The bigger a hammer we bring, the fewer ships we will lose and the more effective these engagements will be at reducing UT's tonnage advantage. Should be a fairly boring fight, but them's the breaks. The UT fleet is only moving at like 1600 km/s. Even our troop transports at 2000 km/s are faster than that. LLSix fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Jan 16, 2018 |
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Jan 16, 2018 00:21
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Don't shoot first; we can afford to do that, since we've got the tech advantage and our main strength is close-range laser obliteration. Let's intercept the force before they reach Ceres and demand that they turn back; as far as we're concerned they're rogue elements that attempted a military coup against the Terran government and the only plausible reason they have for moving towards Ceres is to attack it against the wishes of the civilian government, seeing as they only moved after the coup attempt and that the local Ceres fleet hasn't bombed the place to rubble. Make sure to record our conversation and send it back to Mars; it could be very useful propaganda material.
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Jan 16, 2018 00:22
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Our force is much more powerful than either of the Terran fleets. Our overriding goal should be to prevent them from linking up, and defeat them in detail if it comes to shooting. Of the two enemy forces, we should prioritize the one coming from Earth since it has the troops transports. I'll set aside the ROE issue for the moment, and propose this battle plan in the event of combat. 1. Set course to intercept the fleet from Earth by the time they reach Mars' orbitline. 2. Harass with all available bombers while the fleets close. Priority targets are the CAAs and carriers. 3. Upon reaching ASM range, finish any surviving CAAs and carriers. Then knock out the DDs. 4. Before closing further, use AWACs to make sure we aren't heading into deployed missile pods. If there are missile pods, either knock them out with bombers or just wait and see if the Terrans leave them behind. 5. Close to beam range. Between shields and newfleet's excellent PD, I'm not too worried about enemy missiles. 6. Let the beamships do their thing. Focus on the BBs and core them with the Pollux spinals. Use any torpedoes as well.
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Jan 16, 2018 00:24
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Boksi posted:Don't shoot first; we can afford to do that, since we've got the tech advantage and our main strength is close-range laser obliteration. I don't agree in this scenario. Our main advantages against this enemy force are superior longer range missiles, massive PD, speed, and bombers. We'll have a major advantage in the missile exchanges.
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Jan 16, 2018 00:28
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Saros posted:
FTFY Seriously Terra, get your poo poo together and get some good ships, god.
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Jan 16, 2018 00:38
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1650kps.
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Do we have comms with Ceres? Have we been asked to assist? I think that's important, and if at all possible we should solicit such a request before we start making threats or blowing poo poo up. Mars are the (heavily armed) good guys in this scenario.
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Jan 16, 2018 00:50
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sebmojo posted:Do we have comms with Ceres? Have we been asked to assist? I think that's important, and if at all possible we should solicit such a request before we start making threats or blowing poo poo up. That makes sense to me. We want to make sure that the people understand that Ceres is basically the Liberation of Titan Part II: Sorium Boogaloo.
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Jan 16, 2018 00:54
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sebmojo posted:Do we have comms with Ceres? Have we been asked to assist? I think that's important, and if at all possible we should solicit such a request before we start making threats or blowing poo poo up. Ceres has mostly gone quiet after the Terran ships dropped a bunch of low velocity railgun pellets all over their various external Comms antennae and started jamming everything they could. Unfortunately they aren't in any position to talk right now but last word was them asking Mars and the TFS for aid.
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Jan 16, 2018 00:56
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Saros posted:Ceres has mostly gone quiet after the Terran ships dropped a bunch of low velocity railgun pellets all over their various external Comms antennae and started jamming everything they could. Unfortunately they aren't in any position to talk right now but last word was them asking Mars and the TFS for aid. WE'VE GOT JUSTIFICATION BOYS KICK ON THE ENGINES IT'S CERES OR BUST
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Jan 16, 2018 00:58
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We shouldn't shoot first, under any circumstances. It's imperative that we give Putina a leg to stand on and cast all blame on those hotheaded thugs in the Terran fleet.
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Jan 16, 2018 01:03
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Saros posted:but last word was them asking Mars and the TFS for aid. Sounds like a call for help to me. At this time the issue is we cannot confirm the loyalty to the UT civilian government of the Ceres fleet, however we can confirm the disposition of the Reinforcement fleet from Earth. Therefore the opportunity for Defeat in Detail cannot be wasted. Operation Astarte: 3rd and 4th DD and CA squadrions and all CV support and escort, hereafter called the Intercept Fleet, are to head on intercept course for the UT reinforcement fleet or better yet directly in front of their course. Broadcast of intent to protect Ceres' declared independence and for the UT fleet to heave-to or turn back once we reach just inside either detection range or ASM range. If they decide to turn back, so be it and we shadow them for a bit before heading to Ceres. If they don't we engage, offering quarter to any fully disabled or surrendering vessels. Orders are recommended to not shoot first but at any detection of either incoming ordinance or fighters will be considered hostility, likewise if we can get between the UT fleet and Ceres we will not shoot as they close but if they go past us or open fire we'll go weapons hot. RoE is as stated above giving quarter to disabled or surrendering vessels if such occurs, otherwise vessels remaining in the combat area will be removed with nuclear and charged particle fire with extreme prejudice. Any UT crews surviving ship destruction will be granted PoW status and the rights and safegards thereof. Priority goes to destroying any UT CV support followed by cruisers, destroyers, the battleships and finally removing or capturing the troop transports. If the UT force does not turn back/surrender when first requested we will impound the Troop transports regardless of if they flee after combat is joined. Following this, the Intercept Fleet will refuel/rearm from Martian colliers and proceed towards Ceres to enforce a no-fly zone for UT ships along with 4th fleet. MEANWHILE 4th fleet and possibly a borrowed CV from 2nd fleet, or keeping their original CV compliment, will head towards Ceres to prevent the Ceres fleet from vaporizing the civvies before they can clear their asteroid. They will follow similar RoE to the Intercept Fleet and declare intent to aid in Ceres' independence by inforcing a no-fly zone over Ceres. If the Ceres fleet opens fire on the 4th fleet or Ceres itself, we engage. If necessary the Troop Transports will follow 4th fleet to dislodge UT ground forces from Ceres. Further note, if we can get in contact with the UT civilian government and establish in any way that the UT fleet is considered in rebellion or even that there's some ambiguity of command and control for the Reinforcement fleet, then we can cover our justifications too. scavy131 fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Jan 16, 2018 |
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Jan 16, 2018 01:20
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We are in the heart of madness now; there is no way but through, sadly. We no longer have the luxury of tolerating anything that might lead to Ceres' reconquest by Terra, and we cannot afford to lose ships from our new fleet that we will need to beat back the crabs. As such, the cold logic leads me to this: Deploy everything we have to chase the reinforcement fleet. The major threat is an IPBM strike, and our fleet won't *really* help with that; if the missiles fly, so be it. We're fast enough to get back for any other response. Broadcast an immediate recognition of Free Ceres and demand the UT reinforcement fleet turn back. When they inevitably don't, Shoot first and shoot to kill. Any ships that surrender or we cripple, fine. Any ship that can still fight we nuke from long distance. The entire reinforcement fleet must be neutralized. Offer the Terran Fleet at Ceres the same deal. Flee with their weapons ports shut, metaphorically, or die. We chose to no longer tolerate half measures. This is where it led us- we cannot turn back now.
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Jan 16, 2018 01:24
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Mukaikubo posted:We are in the heart of madness now; there is no way but through, sadly. We no longer have the luxury of tolerating anything that might lead to Ceres' reconquest by Terra, and we cannot afford to lose ships from our new fleet that we will need to beat back the crabs. As such, the cold logic leads me to this: Works for me
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Jan 16, 2018 01:28
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I'm worried that if we stomp the relief force flat, the BC squadron at Ceres will turn the place into a cloud of gravel before we can come relieve them. Maybe we should send a smaller force to make sure that doesn't happen, and then land on the big force with everything else as it goes past Mars?
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Jan 16, 2018 01:31
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Mukaikubo posted:Deploy everything we have to chase the reinforcement fleet. The only reason I'm not 100% behind sending everything is that we do technically want to force an engagement with the UT reinforcement fleet and intercepting with like 40 vessels is going to possibly make them stand down and head back to Terra. Sending just the Cruiser and Destroyer squadrons+CVs will still be numerically and I believe tonnage wise superior without being quite enough to make the UT just back down outright.
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Jan 16, 2018 01:33
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Guys: If we want Ceres to be free, we have to blow up the fleet over Ceres. If we leave that fleet till 2nd, then A. Events may escalate further and risk of IPBM increases. B. The fleet over Ceres has more time to quell the resistance: No point liberating Ceres if all the leaders are dead and the people cowed. Send the main fleet to Ceres, broadcasting that Mars recognizes Ceres and that the Terran fleet should leave. Do not fire unless fired upon, or we get into laser range of Terran ships and they arn't moving.
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Jan 16, 2018 01:37
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Mukaikubo posted:We are in the heart of madness now; there is no way but through, sadly. We no longer have the luxury of tolerating anything that might lead to Ceres' reconquest by Terra, and we cannot afford to lose ships from our new fleet that we will need to beat back the crabs. As such, the cold logic leads me to this: Agreed. No half-measures. Set some limit like any UT naval movements past mars orbit will be seen as an act of blah blah we shoot you.
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Jan 16, 2018 01:47
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Crazycryodude posted:I'm worried that if we stomp the relief force flat, the BC squadron at Ceres will turn the place into a cloud of gravel before we can come relieve them. Maybe we should send a smaller force to make sure that doesn't happen, and then land on the big force with everything else as it goes past Mars? We will remember their martyrdom and paint the Terrans' names in the books of atrocity forevermore with it.  edit:  Seriously, though. If we bring out the heavy hammer and the reinforcement turns and runs, great! They'll be great ablative armor in the Great Crab War to come. We continue on and force the Terran fleet around Ceres to withdraw or die. We have the upper hand here, and our vote clearly showed we want to use it to strangle our rivals. So be it. Let's strangle them. Either we force a fight we're confident of winning or they suffer the savage prestige hit that losing Ceres brings, or they glass Ceres, paint themselves as The Baddies forevermore, *and* lose a large chunk of their fleet. The worst thing we can do having started down this path is to shuffle our feet. Mukaikubo fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Jan 16, 2018 |
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Jan 16, 2018 01:50
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Mukaikubo posted:We are in the heart of madness now; there is no way but through, sadly. We no longer have the luxury of tolerating anything that might lead to Ceres' reconquest by Terra, and we cannot afford to lose ships from our new fleet that we will need to beat back the crabs. As such, the cold logic leads me to this: This has my vote. No compromises, no excuses.
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Jan 16, 2018 02:01
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Better option we offer the Terrans to defect to Mars.
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Jan 16, 2018 02:30
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nothing to seehere posted:Guys: If we want Ceres to be free, we have to blow up the fleet over Ceres. If we leave that fleet till 2nd, then A. Events may escalate further and risk of IPBM increases. B. The fleet over Ceres has more time to quell the resistance: No point liberating Ceres if all the leaders are dead and the people cowed. Send the main fleet to Ceres, broadcasting that Mars recognizes Ceres and that the Terran fleet should leave. Do not fire unless fired upon, or we get into laser range of Terran ships and they arn't moving. The Ceres fleet has done as much as it can on its own, short of straight up destroying the rock. They have no ground troops with which to physically retake the colony, which is why the reinforcement fleet exists in the first place.
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Jan 16, 2018 02:35
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Could we just dump all our missiles into their troop transports, and not engage the rest? Not like they're going to retake Ceres by radio
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Jan 16, 2018 03:01
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Mukaikubo posted:We are in the heart of madness now; there is no way but through, sadly. We no longer have the luxury of tolerating anything that might lead to Ceres' reconquest by Terra, and we cannot afford to lose ships from our new fleet that we will need to beat back the crabs. As such, the cold logic leads me to this: No Half Measures Sol is Red
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Jan 16, 2018 03:26
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Are the IPBMs getting upgraded with any frequency? If they're the same that we started the war with they might be obsolete fairly soon with respect to point defenses.
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Jan 16, 2018 03:29
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mossyfisk posted:Could we just dump all our missiles into their troop transports, and not engage the rest? What, on the grounds that destroying unarmed ships with tens of thousands of people aboard is the nicer way to resolve this conflict?
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Jan 16, 2018 03:29
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Sniping the transports could be done. Thing is, the warships could then keep going to link up with the Ceres fleet. Now there’s a strong enemy fleet in the belt that we still need to deal with one way or another before Ceres can be truly secure. Doing that will be a lot more expensive than killing the fleets separately would have been. What I’d like to do is dunk on the reinforcement fleet, then give the Ceres fleet a minute to look at the awful situation they’re in. See if they’d rather become the new Free Ceres Navy than slowly expanding plasma.
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Jan 16, 2018 03:35
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In regards to the enemy fleet I think we should destroy the escorts first before engaging the Battleships. The big ships are built like bricks, but the cruisers and destroyers much less so... I don't want a second Titan where we keep sinking our entire missile salvo's into an unkillable demon battleship. 45cm lasers will gently caress them up better than our missiles anyway, and would probably overkill an escort.
Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Jan 16, 2018 |
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Jan 16, 2018 04:12
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