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They just gently caress up our views on different aspects of relationships.
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Jan 15, 2018 23:42
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Steve2911 posted:They just gently caress up our views on different aspects of relationships. This is a whole other discussion, but I always felt like porn just delivered on the implications of other media. It's reactive to other cultural urges. Urges is probably the wrong word.
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Jan 15, 2018 23:45
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Edited;
MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Jan 16, 2018 |
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Jan 15, 2018 23:45
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Keeshhound posted:The Atlantic sure as gently caress did. Jesus Christ people are really going into overdrive about this.
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Jan 16, 2018 00:01
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khwarezm posted:Jesus Christ people are really going into overdrive about this. The Atlantic, despite being really good on some stuff, has some massive blind spots. I mean 'the tragedy of the American Military' is an amazing long form article, but they also put out poo poo like this and simply cannot get their heads around what Antifa is.
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Jan 16, 2018 00:04
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Aren't the Nation and Mother Jones considered better left-wing rags anyways?
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Jan 16, 2018 00:08
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The Atlantic is not in the least bit leftist in any way (one of their frequent contributors is David Frum and Jeffrey Goldberg is the editor in chief), one of their stock-in-trade types of articles they absolutely love to revisit again and again is 'loving college students are too sensitive'.
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Jan 16, 2018 00:11
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khwarezm posted:The Atlantic is not in the least bit leftist in any way (one of their frequent contributors is David Frum and Jeffrey Goldberg is the editor in chief), one of their stock-in-trade types of articles they absolutely love to revisit again and again is 'loving college students are too sensitive'. That's their other major blind spot. They cannot reconcile with the idea that a nazi trying to do a speech at a university being booed off is not a free speech issue.
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Jan 16, 2018 00:32
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Does it change anything if Aziz was drunk? That's not a loaded question, it's just something I'm thinking about, and the article is vague enough to not get a clear picture on how much alcohol they both had. It seems like it may have been a fair amount, especially given that Aziz weighs about a buck twenty soaking wet. I've had people get me drunk and pressure me into sex, and on occasion they were also drunk and that helped me to understand why the worst of their personality was coming out; alcohol (and cocaine) can often unleash the darker aspects of one's ego.
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Jan 16, 2018 01:34
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Far too many people use alcohol as an excuse. Guess what? It's never a valid reason.
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Jan 16, 2018 01:51
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Rhyno posted:Far too many people use alcohol as an excuse. Guess what? It's never a valid reason. I mean, I agree, especially since by definition one has to be sober when making the decision to drink a lot.
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Jan 16, 2018 01:57
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Aziz looks like more of a coke fiend to me tbqh.
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Jan 16, 2018 01:57
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Here's something else: Aziz Ansari Is Guilty. Of Not Being a Mind Reader. Looks like people are definitely closing ranks around Ansari and denouncing the Babe article as just some overreaction from a touchy millennial. And they say rape culture doesn't exist. Also I've noticed that people are fixating on this in particular: quote:After arriving at his TriBeCa apartment on the appointed evening — she was “excited,” having carefully chosen her outfit after consulting with friends — they exchanged small talk and drank wine. “It was white,” she said. “I didn’t get to choose and I prefer red, but it was white wine.” Yes, we are apparently meant to read into the nonconsensual wine choice... That really pisses me off, it negates the obviously way more important details in the rest of the article to focus on a throw away line to try and shore up the impression that the whole thing is just a big hissy fit.
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Jan 16, 2018 02:16
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I'm amazed it took her until the end of the article to trot out "internalized misogyny" :eyeroll:
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Jan 16, 2018 02:30
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Two more Joel Kramer accusers http://deadline.com/2018/01/joel-kramer-sexual-assault-accusations-stunt-women-eliza-dushku-1202243343/
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Jan 16, 2018 02:38
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Here's some more in the same vein as the last article I posted: Babe’s Aziz Ansari piece was a gift to anyone who wants to derail #MeToo And look: quote:The only issue with all this is that this story about Ansari is nothing like the ugly tales of sexual abuse that have wafted out of Hollywood over the past six months or so. Not really. From Harvey Weinstein’s decades of sexual assaults and use of blacklists to Kevin Spacey’s predatory behavior toward young men to Louis C.K.’s masturbating in front of people without asking, these were all stories that were both criminal in nature and involved an abuse of power over underlings. The #MeToo movement’s story has been a relatively straightforward one that garners support from both sides of the aisle and all decent people, because it is a tale of how powerful people humiliate and subjugate those who want nothing more than a chance to chase their dreams.  My god, exactly the same stupid tactic as the last article.
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Jan 16, 2018 02:58
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Rhyno posted:Far too many people use alcohol as an excuse. Guess what? It's never a valid reason. Drunk people can't consent.
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Jan 16, 2018 02:58
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precision posted:Does it change anything if Aziz was drunk? That's not a loaded question, it's just something I'm thinking about, and the article is vague enough to not get a clear picture on how much alcohol they both had. It seems like it may have been a fair amount, especially given that Aziz weighs about a buck twenty soaking wet. In Vino Veritas, and all that. khwarezm posted:Here's some more in the same vein as the last article I posted: These are the people who'll complain that the movement got derailed by petty poo poo, while being the exact petty fuckers who derailed the movement.
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Jan 16, 2018 03:01
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it should be pointed out that literally nothing has happened to Aziz beyond having a bunch of people on Twitter mad at him. no being dropped from projects, no having his show cancelled, maybe a few people decided not to watch Master of None, but like, that's it. The "consequences" of his actions to this point have been "a bunch of people are saying mean things about him publicly", which honestly is a pretty good punishment for being a lovely person in a non-illegal way. So many of these people talking about how the MeToo movement is gonna turn into a witch hunt or whatever are immediately jumping to a conclusion as if Aziz Ansari was immediately and forcefully expelled from Hollywood.
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Jan 16, 2018 03:09
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DC Murderverse posted:it should be pointed out that literally nothing has happened to Aziz beyond having a bunch of people on Twitter mad at him. no being dropped from projects, no having his show cancelled, maybe a few people decided not to watch Master of None, but like, that's it. The "consequences" of his actions to this point have been "a bunch of people are saying mean things about him publicly", which honestly is a pretty good punishment for being a lovely person in a non-illegal way. I've read way more people going 'typical, they're going to ruin the career of a good man, blasted feminists' than people actually calling for Ansari's career to be ruined. I don't exactly know how something like this should be approached, he doesn't seem to have done anything actually illegal, but some of the responses I've seen floating around have really pissed me off, and worse they seem to be coming from people who should loving know better, it feels like if it were anyone else the conspiracies and dreadful arguments would never fly.
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Jan 16, 2018 03:18
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Tars Tarkas posted:Two more Joel Kramer accusers As I mentioned above, I was afraid this was going to be the case. It’s kind of getting buried amongst the more high-profile Aziz situation, but Kramer was targeting kids. Eliza Dushku was twelve. One of the victims in this article was ten. I’m worried how many more victims are out there, considering the length of his career.
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Jan 16, 2018 03:26
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DC Murderverse posted:it should be pointed out that literally nothing has happened to Aziz beyond having a bunch of people on Twitter mad at him. no being dropped from projects, no having his show cancelled, maybe a few people decided not to watch Master of None, but like, that's it.   
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Jan 16, 2018 03:30
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I knew people were going to pick out the red/white wine line and try to use that to discredit the rest of the story. I'm not really sure why that line is in there in the first place though, it really does seem like something you would only leave in if you were trying to make fun of the subject, which I presume Babe was not doing. But seizing on some small irrelevant detail is a pretty common tactic in trying to prove that the victim in question is exaggerating/lying/crazy, etc. A lot of people are saying it's the woman's fault for not being more direct, but the guy is 34 years old. If you've made it that long being totally unaware of how your actions affect other people (assuming he actually was unaware and not that he knew and just didn't give a poo poo, which is also pretty likely), then it is nobody else's fault but your own.
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Jan 16, 2018 03:56
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GORDON posted:Drunk people can't consent. I'm not exactly certain what you're getting at here but it is absolutely clear that I meant you can not use "I WAS DRUNK" as an excuse for sexual assault.
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Jan 16, 2018 04:44
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Rhyno posted:I'm not exactly certain what you're getting at here but it is absolutely clear that I meant you can not use "I WAS DRUNK" as an excuse for sexual assault. I'm saying that if one drink is enough for a woman to claim she was inhibited by alcohol when she took certain actions, then the same needs to be allowed of men, too. You can either consent when you're drunk, or you can't. There isn't some magical "men are always the aggressors" rule. Or is there?
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Jan 16, 2018 04:52
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I finally read the babe piece. Aziz did some gross stuff. The thing that makes this different from the other allegations is that it isn't a work colleague. Aziz drove her to tears but she didn't have to put on a happy face the next morning or lose her job. She didn't have to worry about seeing him on the set of other productions and wonder about her future in the business. As they say around here, she had the option to  If this were just about sex then Mike Pences rule about not taking women to lunch would be the right response. But it's not. The point is that women need to work and to be in public spaces without having their gender used against them. So the "Pence rule" is wrong here. And Aziz is still gross, as shown by the babe article. But that article was about sex, not work. So it feels... Beside the point? I dunno, I'm not going to defend anyone who's turned this into victim-blaming time, but that's what I can pick up on with how this allegation feels different.
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Jan 16, 2018 05:08
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twerking on the railroad posted:So the "Pence rule" is wrong here. And Aziz is still gross, as shown by the babe article. But that article was about sex, not work. So it feels... Beside the point? I dunno, I'm not going to defend anyone who's turned this into victim-blaming time, but that's what I can pick up on with how this allegation feels different. Someone on twitter whose name is escaping me made the point that the biggest issue that this story exposes is that there are a lot of people who don't see anything wrong with Ansari's behavior, which indicates a pretty big problem with how sex is viewed in our culture. It doesn't have to be rape; the fact that people can read "I froze up in the middle of the act, and he didn't stop or ask if I was okay," and think "I don't see what the problem is" is the problem.
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Jan 16, 2018 05:15
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Fart City posted:As I mentioned above, I was afraid this was going to be the case. It’s kind of getting buried amongst the more high-profile Aziz situation, but Kramer was targeting kids. Eliza Dushku was twelve. One of the victims in this article was ten. I’m worried how many more victims are out there, considering the length of his career. Tenth grade, not ten. The only reason that's relevant is because he's using the 'IT WASN'T TECHNICALLY ILLEGAL' defense, which as we all know is the true mark of an upstanding citizen. edit: Oh Jesus loving Christ, Dushku was 12. 
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Jan 16, 2018 05:17
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Stayne Falls posted:Tenth grade, not ten. The only reason that's relevant is because he's using the 'IT WASN'T TECHNICALLY ILLEGAL' defense, which as we all know is the true mark of an upstanding citizen. Misread that. My bad. Still, it appears that he had a specific type he was going for, in terms of general age range. Kramer has ninety-eight titles to his name on IMDB. That's a long list of opportunities for him to do damage. Like, he worked on The Conjuring 2 a couple of years ago. Some of the lead actresses in that movie fit right in that range.
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Jan 16, 2018 05:35
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Fart City posted:Misread that. My bad. Still, it appears that he had a specific type he was going for, in terms of general age range. Kramer has ninety-eight titles to his name on IMDB. That's a long list of opportunities for him to do damage. Like, he worked on The Conjuring 2 a couple of years ago. Some of the lead actresses in that movie fit right in that range. I've always thought Alyssa Milano probably had some horror stories. Considering she started the #metoo hashtag, I'd be surprised if she doesn't address it.
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Jan 16, 2018 06:20
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GORDON posted:I'm saying that if one drink is enough for a woman to claim she was inhibited by alcohol when she took certain actions, then the same needs to be allowed of men, too. You can either consent when you're drunk, or you can't. There isn't some magical "men are always the aggressors" rule. What the hell are you talking about? What makes him the aggressor is that he tried to get her drunker and repeatedly ignored her saying she was uncomfortable and wanted to stop. Just because you’re drunk doesn’t mean you get to ignore someone telling you to stop.
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Jan 16, 2018 07:31
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GORDON posted:Drunk people can't consent. And a drunken aggrieving party sure as hell can violate consent. If a drunk driver is guilty when they cross the yellow line and crash into someone else then a drunk date should be guilty when they cross this line. Whether their victim is also drunk is immaterial. Snowman_McK posted:These are the people who'll complain that the movement got derailed by petty poo poo, while being the exact petty fuckers who derailed the movement. At best they're fair-weather allies trying to anticipate which way the wind's blowing, at worst they're agents provocateur.
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Jan 16, 2018 08:06
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I've seen more people confused by her behaviour than I have normalising Ansari's and I think that of everything that's come out since all of this started, a lot more women kind of handwave the story which is interesting. Yes there are a number of people who won't find total fault in what Ansari did and it's because of things like "I sent him non-verbal cues that I didn't want this and then let him go down on me".
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Jan 16, 2018 08:27
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I'm not really sure how these stories get edited or sold or whatever but my first thought about the Ansari thing was that it was published on a site that I had never heard of and that they would probably stand to make a lot of money by publishing it. Sucks, but that was my first thought. My second thought was that the line about the wine was not necessary to be in there...I still cannot see why it was left in there. My third thought was the guy is a creep. Now I am thinking that I hope goons don't jump all over me for posting this.
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Jan 16, 2018 17:26
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jet sanchEz posted:I'm not really sure how these stories get edited or sold or whatever but my first thought about the Ansari thing was that it was published on a site that I had never heard of and that they would probably stand to make a lot of money by publishing it. Sucks, but that was my first thought. It's fine to question information you're unsure of, especially with an allegation like this. As long as it doesn't immediately translate to "That bitch is lying", then we have a problem. It sounds like you drew the correct conclusion anyways.
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Jan 16, 2018 17:30
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jet sanchEz posted:I'm not really sure how these stories get edited or sold or whatever but my first thought about the Ansari thing was that it was published on a site that I had never heard of and that they would probably stand to make a lot of money by publishing it. Sucks, but that was my first thought. I think the inclusion of the wine uh, line, is to show that Ansari's intentions were different from hers. It makes it sound like everything leading up to his apartment was perfunctory and something to just get out of the way. He didn't ask what wine she wanted because he didn't particularly care what wine she wanted. It's not even anything as insidious as trying to get her drunk, but it's clear where his mind was.
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Jan 16, 2018 18:08
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The line about wine is just color. It paints the scene. A lot of the stories emerging from #MeToo are written to be extremely exhaustive because it makes the story more palpable. If you're at all sympathetic to the woman, it seems quite unfair to seize on one detail to cast her as, I don't know, frivolous.
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Jan 16, 2018 18:19
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If you're trying to engage with this in non-disingenuous way then shut up about wine, god.
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Jan 16, 2018 18:31
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Has Aziz Ansari (dumb name by the way, loving alliteration) faced any actual consequences yet?
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Jan 16, 2018 18:31
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