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In Japan the current legal definition of whisky is as follows: -must be distilled from a wash of only fermented malted grain and water -distilled to less than 95% abv -can contain added alcohol, spirits, spices, coloring, or water -must contain at least 10% of the original distillate And that's it! There are no specifics about geography or aging in there. Several companies have taken advantage of that loose definition to market their products as "Japanese whisky" despite the fact that they don't distill their own liquid at all. They import bulk from Scotland or whatever, maybe age for a bit in Japan, then call it Japanese whisky (Kurayoshi and Togouchi come to mind). For what it's worth I've never really seen rice whisky actually marketed as whisky in Japan though. Even the cheapest crap whisky you can find is at least made from some maybe malt and at least a grain which isn't rice. I guess it's worth discussing where the line should be drawn. Even real Japanese whisky uses imported malt and yeast. zmcnulty fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Jan 16, 2018 |
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Jan 16, 2018 15:38
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Generally anything distilled from alcohol produced by fermenting grain is a whiskey, like anything distilled from fermented fruit is a brandy. So Corsair's Oatrage and Quinoa whiskeys are both whiskeys. Oddly, buckwheat is not technically a grain, so there's been some argument about whether or not spirits distilled from buckwheat is actually a whiskey. Re: Rice whiskey, I came across Kikori when I was perusing bottles on Flaviar. It looked really interesting, also a barrel aged Japanese rice whiskey. Any experiences with it?
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Jan 16, 2018 16:11
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GrAviTy84 posted:Generally anything distilled from alcohol produced by fermenting grain is a whiskey, like anything distilled from fermented fruit is a brandy. So Corsair's Oatrage and Quinoa whiskeys are both whiskeys. Oddly, buckwheat is not technically a grain, so there's been some argument about whether or not spirits distilled from buckwheat is actually a whiskey. Never had the Ohishi, Fukano, or Kikori. None of these are sold in Japan afaik. I guess I could buy some rice shochu for $10, throw it in my 2L barrel, and I'd probably end up fairly close.
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Jan 16, 2018 16:39
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zmcnulty posted:In Japan the current legal definition of whisky is as follows: From memory Togouchi get Scottish malt whisky and Canadian grain whisky, stick them in a disused railway tunnel for a while and "hey presto" it's Japanese whisky! The whole terroir stuff with whisky is a can of worms imo, as an example Caol Ila gets tankered off Islay once distilled and spends all it's time in barrels maturing in warehouses near the Central Belt. Does that make it less of an Islay whisky than something exclusively matured in Bowmore's No.1 warehouse?
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Jan 16, 2018 17:07
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GrAviTy84 posted:Generally anything distilled from alcohol produced by fermenting grain is a whiskey, like anything distilled from fermented fruit is a brandy. Anything that is distilled from fermented fruit is an eau-de-vie. It must be aged to be a brandy. Generally I would consider the same thing for whisky, but there are more and more "white whiskies", so who really knows?
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Jan 16, 2018 17:08
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PT6A posted:Anything that is distilled from fermented fruit is an eau-de-vie. It must be aged to be a brandy. Generally I would consider the same thing for whisky, but there are more and more "white whiskies", so who really knows? fair enough. #MakeWhiskeyAgedAgain
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Jan 16, 2018 17:25
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PT6A posted:Anything that is distilled from fermented fruit is an eau-de-vie. It must be aged to be a brandy. What about pisco?
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Jan 16, 2018 17:56
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I learned about the Fukano rice whisky here http://whiskyadvocate.com/top20/2017/20-fukano-2017-edition/ And yes it does remind me of shochu a lot. I would be open to trying more rice based spirits if they taste like this, but I know next to nothing about them.
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Jan 16, 2018 20:43
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Toast Museum posted:What about pisco? Pisco is aged/rested, but not in wood. EDIT: I'll totally admit that I forgot about pisco and then hurried around looking for a reason that I was technically correct  EDIT #2: Apparently the EU, the US, and Canada all have regulations that require some level of oak aging for a product to use the label "brandy." So I guess by that definition, pisco would not technically be a brandy. PT6A fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Jan 16, 2018 |
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Jan 16, 2018 22:15
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PT6A posted:Anything that is distilled from fermented fruit is an eau-de-vie. It must be aged to be a brandy. Generally I would consider the same thing for whisky, but there are more and more "white whiskies", so who really knows? So is grain vodka also white whiskey?
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Jan 17, 2018 00:03
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Stultus Maximus posted:So is grain vodka also white whiskey? As far as I can tell, yes. I believe it's a marketing gimmick because people love the idea of moonshine for some reason. EDIT: Looked it up, and apparently the legal distinction between white whiskey and vodka/NGS is that the former must be distilled to under 95% ABV, and the latter must be over it. Additionally, whiskey must be aged according to US law I'm told, but as there's no minimum aging period specified, it could be left to sit in a barrel for five minutes and would technically qualify, as far as I can tell. EDIT 2: Upon further investigation, according to US law, corn whiskey needn't be aged, but other whiskeys must be. Apparently many people, including Jack Daniel's legal department, are confused by the layers of nonsense. PT6A fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Jan 17, 2018 |
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Jan 17, 2018 00:15
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Kinda wanna experiment with micro barrels and grain vodka now.
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Jan 17, 2018 00:26
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PT6A posted:EDIT 2: Upon further investigation, according to US law, corn whiskey needn't be aged, but other whiskeys must be. Apparently many people, including Jack Daniel's legal department, are confused by the layers of nonsense. Interestingly, if you age corn whiskey, you must do so in used or uncharred barrels. I mean I guess that makes sense since "corn whiskey" in new, charred barrels is technically a bourbon albeit with a much higher corn content than required. Although that being said, tossing a bunch of stuff into a barrel for a couple minutes just so you can call it (not corn) whiskey seems wasteful since those barrels are now used but not in a good way gwrtheyrn fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Jan 17, 2018 |
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Jan 17, 2018 00:38
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With the snobbery around the "single malt" part of scotch, I'm kinda surprised single grain whiskies arent more popular
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Jan 17, 2018 01:50
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GrAviTy84 posted:With the snobbery around the "single malt" part of scotch, I'm kinda surprised single grain whiskies arent more popular In your mind what is a "single grain" whiskey though?
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Jan 17, 2018 02:00
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100% one grain. So, ryes have been catching on that. 100% Corn whiskies/moonshine, at least where I am, aren't popular. Or like bernheim wheat etc
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Jan 17, 2018 03:12
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GrAviTy84 posted:100% one grain. So, ryes have been catching on that. 100% Corn whiskies/moonshine, at least where I am, aren't popular. Or like bernheim wheat etc Okay just was wondering because single in single malt had nothing to do with what grains are used
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Jan 17, 2018 03:22
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So if I take the same grain and distill it at two different distilleries, combine the results, and call it single grain, can I make a whisky snob's head explode? Here I always thought "single grain" meant each bottle contained a single grain of sand from the beaches of Islay, for added brininess
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Jan 17, 2018 03:28
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GrAviTy84 posted:100% Corn whiskies/moonshine, at least where I am, aren't popular. Or like bernheim wheat etc Having had 100% corn whiskey, probably because it's incredibly one-note. "White whiskey" (which as far as I can see is just a marketing term for moonshine-quality liquor) tastes like nothing but corn and alcohol and isn't even fun to sip. I also had Platte Valley, which is aged for 3 years in used barrels. It has a bit more whiskey-like flavor to it but still very generic, about as generic as whiskey can get. Inoffensive but boring.
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Jan 17, 2018 03:47
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gwrtheyrn posted:Okay just was wondering because single in single malt had nothing to do with what grains are used I thought it was 100 % malted barley from one growing season. It's kind of apples and oranges, but the nerd in me that wants to dissect everything thinks it would be cool to isolate diff effects. Like scotch is mostly refill barrels, bourb is required to be new fill. Non Virgin oak means it needs a lot longer to age, that increased age might mean that terroir is more evident, etc. GrAviTy84 fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Jan 17, 2018 |
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Jan 17, 2018 03:57
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GrAviTy84 posted:I thought it was 100 % malted barley from one growing season. It doesn't even mean that. Single just means completely produced with distillate from one distiller. Malt is the part that indicates all barley in scotch whiskey. Neither prevents blends between different seasons, but the age statement is the youngest in the blend
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Jan 17, 2018 04:04
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GrAviTy84 posted:I thought it was 100 % malted barley from one growing season. I did the distillery tour in St. Augustine, which was the first distillery in Florida to begin producing what could legally be called straight bourbon. They encountered issues because the aging requirements strictly stated a 2-year aging period, but the weather in Florida (warm or hot all year except for short cold periods in the winter) caused the product to effectively age faster in the barrel, causing it to age the 2 years in half that time or less. They solved the problem by transferring the spirit to different barrels, allowing aging to continue without such severe effects. 7% of the spirit is also finished in port barrels, which makes for a delicious ruby-colored drink.
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Jan 17, 2018 04:11
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Not being a smart rear end here, but isn't faster aging a good thing? Why would you want your 2 year product to taste like 2 years when it could taste like 4? I mean a 2 year that tastes like a 4 just means you can put out a higher quality whiskey in half the time, that seems like a huge advantage. I'm sure I'm missing something from your story. Was it loving with the flavor in a bad way instead of a delicious way?
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Jan 17, 2018 08:28
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FWIW I put the same question to the Kavalan guys and per them the only downside is that their angel's share is significantly higher. On the other side of the coin, the guys from Box in Sweden were pretty convinced that the temperature difference between summer and winter was more important than years spent in a barrel. That said I think chitoryu was more talking about the legal requirement rather than the flavor.
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Jan 17, 2018 11:06
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Inspector 34 posted:Not being a smart rear end here, but isn't faster aging a good thing? Why would you want your 2 year product to taste like 2 years when it could taste like 4? I mean a 2 year that tastes like a 4 just means you can put out a higher quality whiskey in half the time, that seems like a huge advantage. I think "good" is subjective. Obv the scotch folk dont think it's good because they dont generally like quarter casks or first fill casks (though that is changing). Could also be that they don't like more aggressive wood notes that first fill and smaller casks impart. The temp swings are important, too, based on what they say, though I'm not convinced it's because of the reasons they give. They say larger swings in temp cause the spirit to "penetrate the wood more", which is kind of silly considering it's in the barrel for years. Just a guess, but I would think it more has to do with the solubility rate of wood sugars, or maybe some other chemical process with the wood and alcohol (does wood degrade in the presence of alcohol?). Either way, many of them make a big deal about where in the warehouse the barrels are aged and the barrels that go to premium bourbons like pappy or that BTAC etc are generally in the center of the warehouse or the basement because of less temperature swing (so I hear).
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Jan 17, 2018 16:22
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Inspector 34 posted:Not being a smart rear end here, but isn't faster aging a good thing? Why would you want your 2 year product to taste like 2 years when it could taste like 4? I mean a 2 year that tastes like a 4 just means you can put out a higher quality whiskey in half the time, that seems like a huge advantage. According to their website, they were concerned about over-extraction. Probably something else to do with being aged in Florida's almost permanent heat and humidity; we get short periods of freezing cold, but otherwise it's hot and humid even into December. There's not really a consistent temperature gradient of warming to cooling like you'd see a few states north, just hot and humid weather forever and then suddenly plunging to 30 degrees for a week.
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Jan 17, 2018 16:43
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GrAviTy84 posted:100% one grain. So, ryes have been catching on that. 100% Corn whiskies/moonshine, at least where I am, aren't popular. Or like bernheim wheat etc Very few ryes are 100% rye. The vast majority contain a bit of barley and quite a bit of corn.
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Jan 18, 2018 08:30
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I attended a Woodford tasting this weekend, and I must say I am disappointed. The event was nice, but I expected more from the whiskey. The Woodford Reserve I found to be ok but thin without much going on, and at $27 for 750 mL I would much rather have my WT101 (~$22) or Four Roses Small Batch (~$30). The Double Oak I did not care for at all. It was sweet, which I don't mind, except it tasted artificially so. The "oakyness" was nice, but too subdued. Had it been stronger or smokier, I would have probably come away with a different opinion. All in all it was too mellow - not as thin as the Reserve but still not enough punch for my liking. And $55, it is not something I foresee ever buying given the alternatives. The Rye was better, but not great. It also didn't really taste any different from bourbon, which made sense once I learned it's pretty low on rye (53% rye, 33% corn). I don't have much exposure to rye and haven't found a go-to yet, but I got the feeling this isn't what a rye-drinker would look for. In other news, I spoke with my dad about how I've been branching out into new whiskeys, and he suggested I try his favorite: Jack Daniels Honey 
Enigma fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Jan 21, 2018 |
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Jan 21, 2018 20:47
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So i was looking to expand my home bar to include more whiskey and scotch....went in with the intention of hopefully grabbing a good variety to teach myself all the styles. Some what panicked due to all the choices and grabbed names i saw here How bad did i do? Highland park 12 Glenlivet 12 Glenfiddich 12 Laphroaig Quarter cask Red Breast 12 Four Roses small batch Glenmorangie Nectar D'or This all got added to my wild turkey 101, Russel Reserve 6 year and Bulleit
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Jan 27, 2018 05:04
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Tiny Chalupa posted:So i was looking to expand my home bar to include more whiskey and scotch....went in with the intention of hopefully grabbing a good variety to teach myself all the styles. Some what panicked due to all the choices and grabbed names i saw here Not familiar with the Glenmorangie, but otherwise you got a lot of good bottles. I will say that it's not a huge variety; the Glenfiddich, Glenlivet, and Highland Park are all 12-year scotches that will doubtlessly taste quite similar to one another. The Laphroaig will be your biggest surprise if you've never drank peat-smoked scotch, and I liken the flavor to a barbecue (or if you're an Orlando native, the smell of Rome burning on Spaceship Earth). What I would suggest for really broadening your horizons: * Japanese whiskey, which is similar to scotch but divorced from strict Scottish tradition. * A barrel-finished whiskey that adds a new flavor. Angel's Envy is often recommended but I didn't taste a ton of difference there. My favorite is St. Augustine Distillery's port-finished whiskey, but as far as I know that's only sold at the distillery in Florida. * A "white whiskey", which is basically just moonshine with a fancy name. It might not be the best experience, but you'll certainly experience it!
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Jan 27, 2018 05:13
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Might want to grab something with really heavy sherry too its a pretty distinctive style. This thread recommended to me Glenfarclas 17 which i fell in love with.
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Jan 27, 2018 05:21
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chitoryu12 posted:* A "white whiskey", which is basically just moonshine with a fancy name. It might not be the best experience, but you'll certainly experience it! I highly recommend Ban Poitin, Irish moonshine. Picked up a bottle when I was in Ireland, and it is incredibly smooth for being half alcohol.
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Jan 27, 2018 05:48
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Drink what you like.
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Jan 27, 2018 07:21
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I got a bottle of Westland Peated American Whiskey for Christmas and it has been awesome. It's the kind of whiskey that you might use to introduce people to peaty scotches, I'll probably keep a bottle on hand for guests instead of just throwing Ardbeg at them.
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Jan 27, 2018 07:35
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chitoryu12 posted:Not familiar with the Glenmorangie, but otherwise you got a lot of good bottles. I will say that it's not a huge variety; the Glenfiddich, Glenlivet, and Highland Park are all 12-year scotches that will doubtlessly taste quite similar to one another. The Laphroaig will be your biggest surprise if you've never drank peat-smoked scotch, and I liken the flavor to a barbecue (or if you're an Orlando native, the smell of Rome burning on Spaceship Earth). Highland Park 12 won't taste anything like Glenfiddich or Glenlivet, as it's a peated Scotch. The only critique I have is getting both the fiddich and the livet, which are indeed extremely similar. Great choices overall. Also, good lord don't buy one of those "moonshine" or "white lightning" new make bottles, they're overpriced and deliver nothing but suffering. Vox Nihili fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Jan 27, 2018 |
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Jan 27, 2018 19:39
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Is the Nectar D'Or the Sauternes cask finished one? If so, it's fantastic stuff! EDIT: It is. You're in for a treat, IMO.
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Jan 27, 2018 19:41
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Tiny Chalupa posted:So i was looking to expand my home bar to include more whiskey and scotch....went in with the intention of hopefully grabbing a good variety to teach myself all the styles. Some what panicked due to all the choices and grabbed names i saw here You've been pulled into the rabbit hole - good luck finding your way out Next thing you know you'll be buying a 25 year IB from a closed distillery
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Jan 27, 2018 20:45
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Vox Nihili posted:Also, good lord don't buy one of those "moonshine" or "white lightning" new make bottles, they're overpriced and deliver nothing but suffering. I think if you want to expand your taste, it's worth at least trying it. You might not enjoy it and will pawn it off on an alcoholic after one glass, but it's not horrid. The one I tried in New York was just corn and alcohol flavor.
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Jan 27, 2018 21:09
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Inspector 34 posted:I got a bottle of Westland Peated American Whiskey for Christmas and it has been awesome. It's the kind of whiskey that you might use to introduce people to peaty scotches, I'll probably keep a bottle on hand for guests instead of just throwing Ardbeg at them. Costco had a three pack sampler of Westland if you were going that route. I think it was peated, sherry, and one other thing
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Jan 27, 2018 21:34
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Tried a glass of Woodford Reserve Rye last night. Not bad, definitely not as rye-y as Rittenhouse or the like, but very drinkable for all that. Anyone have thoughts on it?
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Jan 28, 2018 13:32
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