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Linear Zoetrope posted:Out of wonder, has any team/tag fighter ever tried anything similar to pick/ban draft rules? E.G. players take turns picking characters with, say, an option to ban a certain character after a certain point? I don't think it's better, I'm just kind of curious if any game or tournament has tried it, because it could create a different way to play the game that's novel and interesting even if not as rawly competitive (forces higher level play with more than your small core team, allows players to play to the meta outside of simply picking characters, etc). UFGT/Combo breaker has done several variations of stuff like this, and I think one of them did allow for some explicit bans but it's hard to remember them all It's always fun for like 10 minutes but it's not really as fun as you'd think. It's more fun seeing someone like iheartjustice actually use Phoenix Wright and beat top players than it is to see those same top players mess around with different characters for it's own sake.
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Jan 17, 2018 23:20
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the absolute best version of any sort of character select meta is tournaments using character ratios based on tiers
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Jan 17, 2018 23:24
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Zand posted:play stick and stop riding the gate What if the only stick I have in a fanta stick?
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Jan 17, 2018 23:28
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Linear Zoetrope posted:Out of wonder, has any team/tag fighter ever tried anything similar to pick/ban draft rules? E.G. players take turns picking characters with, say, an option to ban a certain character after a certain point? I don't think it's better, I'm just kind of curious if any game or tournament has tried it, because it could create a different way to play the game that's novel and interesting even if not as rawly competitive (forces higher level play with more than your small core team, allows players to play to the meta outside of simply picking characters, etc). I can't believe this is actually a thing in competitive gaming.
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Jan 17, 2018 23:29
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Night Blade posted:What if the only stick I have in a fanta stick? omg don't play 2d games anymore
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Jan 17, 2018 23:30
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punk rebel ecks posted:I can't believe this is actually a thing in competitive gaming. it makes sense in mobas but fgs aint mobas
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Jan 17, 2018 23:31
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not only is it a thing in competitive gaming, it's how the absolute most popular competitive games are played
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Jan 17, 2018 23:31
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even if it was reasonable for people to learn multiple characters, I think it would just result in unpopular characters being played less like, if you're about to play against FAB you're gonna ban Potemkin every time. But no one else plays Potemkin and they're not gonna pick him up to get around bans, they're almost definitely just gonna learn more high-tier characters
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Jan 17, 2018 23:33
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I was actually shocked to hear ban/draft was a standard for card games/MOBAs because why would you not let people play their best poo poo? It makes sense, but in the context of fighting games it's terrible.
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Jan 17, 2018 23:34
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It's really hype when someone is good with a low-tier or weird character and just owns everyone because pro's don't know that matchup.
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Jan 17, 2018 23:37
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Dias posted:I was actually shocked to hear ban/draft was a standard for card games/MOBAs because why would you not let people play their best poo poo? There's a lot more hard counters and a good ban system actually increases the variety and styles of game you can play.
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Jan 17, 2018 23:40
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Zand posted:omg don't play 2d games anymore but infil does it 
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Jan 17, 2018 23:46
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Yeah picking and banning are half the match in games like dota, and I think it makes those games much better because things like hard counters exist and the pick/ban meta is usually based around that. It might be a fun gimmick for a fgc tourney, but not much more than that.
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Jan 17, 2018 23:50
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Jack Trades posted:It's really hype when someone is good with a low-tier or weird character and just owns everyone because pro's don't know that matchup. So you watched Cooperation Cup too?
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Jan 17, 2018 23:52
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Picks and bans allow you to make a game with hard counters, allow you to create powerful synergies between characters without them being disruptive to the game as a whole, and allow you to put off fixing glaring balance issues with characters. These aren't things that are desirable/applicable to a competitive 1v1 game. Also it means that if someone is truly a superstar player, you will never see them playing their best characters. Like this already happens in Dota, where for years Dendi was the superstar everyone liked and his most famous hero was Pudge. If teams felt like Pudge was actually a threat at all they would 100% immediately ban Pudge, meaning fans never got to see the most popular player play the character that he's known for, like having an NBA showmatch with Shaq and a bunch of no-names but it was actually a free throw competition.
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Jan 18, 2018 00:00
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Ultima66 posted:Also it means that if someone is truly a superstar player, you will never see them playing their best characters. Like this already happens in Dota, where for years Dendi was the superstar everyone liked and his most famous hero was Pudge. If teams felt like Pudge was actually a threat at all they would 100% immediately ban Pudge, meaning fans never got to see the most popular player play the character that he's known for, like having an NBA showmatch with Shaq and a bunch of no-names but it was actually a free throw competition. Christ this sounds dumb.
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Jan 18, 2018 00:04
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punk rebel ecks posted:So you watched Cooperation Cup too? I haven't, but I should. I was thinking about Q in 3S, Fuerte in SF4 and basically anything low-tier that Infiltration plays. Especially Infiltration's Hakan.
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Jan 18, 2018 00:09
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The ban system is actually pretty good in games with crappy balance, like Hearthstone, because that way you get more entertaining matches usually. It doesn't quite work with FGs because most modern FGs are at least reasonably well balanced.
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Jan 18, 2018 00:12
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The way Smash 4 works is game one you agree to a pick from three neutral stages- FD, Smashville or Battlefield but almost everyone just goes to Smashville- and then the winner of game one gets to ban a stage from the complete stage list, and the loser picks any neutral stage or a counterpick stage for the next game. Some scenes use DSR, or Dave's Stupid Rule, which means you can't pick a stage you already won a game on, which comes up in game 3 or 5 situations. Because the stage picks and bans exist, you're not character locked the round after a win so you can pick a different character in light of a stage counterpick. No characters are banned.
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Jan 18, 2018 00:31
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The stage picking in smash would take longer than the matches themselves, if smash matches also weren't longer than Marvel 3 somehow
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Jan 18, 2018 00:37
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I reinstalled, tried Sakura for 2 minutes or so and was so disgusted I had to immediately uninstall again
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Jan 18, 2018 00:41
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I did sakuras trials and had fun but im not buying poo poo
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Jan 18, 2018 00:42
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I played tons of smash casually before I ever touched real fighting games. I really tried to enjoy watching smash but holy hell it really takes forever to get through a match.
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Jan 18, 2018 00:43
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dangerdoom volvo posted:I reinstalled, tried Sakura for 2 minutes or so and was so disgusted I had to immediately uninstall again Same. Unless she is visibly pregnant what's even the point
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Jan 18, 2018 00:43
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People don't lose to Q because they don't know how to fight Q. People lose to Q because Kuroda is the divine essence of Third Strike given mortal form. Also what the hell card game has a ban/draft format
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Jan 18, 2018 00:45
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Ratio tournaments work fine for old-school/low-roster games, the Japanese Breakers players mostly run ratio tournaments and people seem content.
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Jan 18, 2018 00:47
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Dracula Factory posted:I played tons of smash casually before I ever touched real fighting games. I really tried to enjoy watching smash but holy hell it really takes forever to get through a match. Tbf Sm4sh is a lot more sane in general (except the stage stuff) compared to melee, which is probably the worst spectator esport on the planet
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Jan 18, 2018 00:47
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My favorite selection gimmicks are definitely auction tourneys. I'm also looking forward to events running 6 man DBFZ tourneys with some twist of some kind in the coming year
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Jan 18, 2018 00:47
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In Training posted:My favorite selection gimmicks are definitely auction tourneys. I'm also looking forward to events running 6 man DBFZ tourneys with some twist of some kind in the coming year DBFZ 3v3 team tournaments are going to be incredible and they're probably one of the gimmick formats I'm most excited to see.
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Jan 18, 2018 00:53
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Didn't Super DBZ or some other game have a mode that rebalanced the characters according to canon power levels? They should add that to the new game.
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Jan 18, 2018 00:56
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Beerus wins mode
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Jan 18, 2018 01:02
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inthesto posted:Also what the hell card game has a ban/draft format Some Hearthstone tournaments did.
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Jan 18, 2018 01:03
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Reiley posted:DBFZ 3v3 team tournaments are going to be incredible and they're probably one of the gimmick formats I'm most excited to see. Actual team fighting in a team fighting game is going to be amazing if only for the team meltdowns
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Jan 18, 2018 01:04
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isn't the 6 vs 6 mode online only? i don't think we're going to see a lot of that unfortunately
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Jan 18, 2018 01:14
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You could lan 6 consoles together probably
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Jan 18, 2018 01:19
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There's a game called Battlerite that's kind of like a MOBA but it's more mechanically complex (heroes have more skills, everything is a skill shot, you move with WASD) and a few tournaments tried a ban system and it sucked for all the reasons people in this thread have said. Everyone just bans whatever their opponents best hero is, so you just end up with a lot of people playing their next best hero at a semi-substandard level. It actively makes playing and watching tournaments worse.
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Jan 18, 2018 01:22
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I'd love to see a full Random Select tournament, or a "Pick your opponent's character' thing. Get some match ups you'd never see otherwise.
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Jan 18, 2018 01:25
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Barudak posted:Actual team fighting in a team fighting game is going to be amazing if only for the team meltdowns exactly its going to make for fun streams
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Jan 18, 2018 01:27
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Fearless_Decoy posted:I'd love to see a full Random Select tournament, or a "Pick your opponent's character' thing. Get some match ups you'd never see otherwise. There was a gem that did that during the BATTLE FOR THE STONES and some guy had to play hulk/black panther/someone else and it made a boring game to watch even more boring.
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Jan 18, 2018 01:28
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Fearless_Decoy posted:I'd love to see a full Random Select tournament, or a "Pick your opponent's character' thing. Get some match ups you'd never see otherwise. All this means is you're going to see competitors playing badly with characters they're not familiar with, instead of actually providing high-level play which is why people watch tournaments to begin with.
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Jan 18, 2018 01:30
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