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Henchman of Santa posted:The dad who didn't believe his daughter until he loving choked her, then eventually killed himself, is a story all it's own.  Got a link on that?
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Jan 17, 2018 19:39
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General Dog posted:
Yeah, uh wow https://ca.reuters.com/article/canadaSportsNews/idCAKBN1F52MS-OCASP quote:Kyle Stephens, pausing to compose herself during Nassar’s sentencing hearing in a courtroom in Lansing, Michigan, said the doctor, a family friend, began molesting her when she was 6 years old and her parents did not believe her when she told them.
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Jan 17, 2018 19:43
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General Dog posted:
It's in the ESPN story near the bottom
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Jan 17, 2018 19:56
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I think one of the reasons these things get covered up for years and years is because they usually start with an institutional failure to do something at the first report. It gets ignored, or brushed off, or denied, or people are told the matter is being handled, and the powers that be hope that's the end of it. But if the abuse continues, the institution and the people now have a strong incentive to actively cover up the abuse, because if they publicly deal with it, one of the first questions they have to answer is "so why didn't you do anything the first time this happened" - and that's bad for fundraising and career progress and institutional image. So the institution (Catholic Church, BBC, PSU, USA Gymnastics, etc) is now fully complicit in the cover up, and the incentives for covering it up get stronger every year.
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Jan 17, 2018 20:02
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Compares to how much coverage the Aziz Ansari story got, Nassar is flying completely under the radar which is unfortunate Now that the case has hit the sentencing phase for the abuse charges I think people are going to pay more attention to the story. They talked about it on NPR this morning when I was driving in to work, and Ringer agrees that the story deserves more coverage.
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Jan 17, 2018 20:44
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FMguru posted:I think one of the reasons these things get covered up for years and years is because they usually start with an institutional failure to do something at the first report. It gets ignored, or brushed off, or denied, or people are told the matter is being handled, and the powers that be hope that's the end of it. But if the abuse continues, the institution and the people now have a strong incentive to actively cover up the abuse, because if they publicly deal with it, one of the first questions they have to answer is "so why didn't you do anything the first time this happened" - and that's bad for fundraising and career progress and institutional image. So the institution (Catholic Church, BBC, PSU, USA Gymnastics, etc) is now fully complicit in the cover up, and the incentives for covering it up get stronger every year. It's sickening and MSU, USA Gymnastics, probably the Karolyis, a bunch of other coaches were all in on it and every one of them should be convicted and their programs shut down. I'm friends with a lot of gymnasts that had horribly hosed up coaches and that kind of behavior just enabled guys like Nassar (one girl's gym had coaches tape thumbtacks to their heels to force them to walk on their toes at all time, for example)
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Jan 17, 2018 21:14
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Even if it hurts the new kids coming up through the ranks, at this point I think the whole USA Gymnastics team needs to be banned from the next 2-3 Olympics, and let qualifiers compete as individuals not under the US flag. Same for non-Olympic competitions. Just drop a hydrogen bomb on it. On the one hand: no there was no explicit cheating going on like with Russia. On the other hand: there's no way most of the higher-ups in US Gymnastics didn't know that something untoward was going on, given how many of their gymnasts have suffered mentally and emotionally thanks to the time spent with the national team setup. There has to be some kind of draconian consequences for that.
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Jan 17, 2018 21:31
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I don’t see how that does anything except maybe punishing the victims of Larry Nasser.
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Jan 17, 2018 21:33
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Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face
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Jan 17, 2018 21:47
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Crazy Ted posted:Even if it hurts the new kids coming up through the ranks, at this point I think the whole USA Gymnastics team needs to be banned from the next 2-3 Olympics, and let qualifiers compete as individuals not under the US flag. Same for non-Olympic competitions. Just drop a hydrogen bomb on it. I mean, doesn't it make way more sense to just ban all those involved currently instead of punish the victims who did indeed speak out? If you do what you say you'd basically eliminate any and all chance of anyone every blowing the whistle on something like this ever again.
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Jan 17, 2018 22:05
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Oh my loving god it's the Paterno discussion all over again
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Jan 17, 2018 22:12
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Henchman of Santa posted:How did the Sandusky thing break again? There was a closed investigation for like two or three years, and in March of 2011 a Pennsylvania newspaper reported that he was under investigation but it didn't make major headlines at that time. Then out of nowhere in November, Pennsylvania's attorney general filed like 40 charges against Sandusky and a bunch more on Curley and Schultz as well, and released the grand jury's findings, prompting everyone in the world to   
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Jan 17, 2018 22:14
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Timby posted:There was a closed investigation for like two or three years, and in March of 2011 a Pennsylvania newspaper reported that he was under investigation but it didn't make major headlines at that time. Then out of nowhere in November, Pennsylvania's attorney general filed like 40 charges against Sandusky and a bunch more on Curley and Schultz as well, and released the grand jury's findings, prompting everyone in the world to Something something rhythmic slapping sounds
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Jan 17, 2018 22:16
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Lockback posted:I mean, doesn't it make way more sense to just ban all those involved currently instead of punish the victims who did indeed speak out? If you do what you say you'd basically eliminate any and all chance of anyone every blowing the whistle on something like this ever again. I also wonder what happens to Michigan State once everything is settled.
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Jan 17, 2018 22:23
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exploded mummy posted:Oh my loving god it's the Paterno discussion all over again Not really since Penn State players weren’t the victims in the Sandusky case. Punishing the Penn State football team was not punishing the victims.
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Jan 17, 2018 22:24
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mastershakeman posted:It's sickening and MSU, USA Gymnastics, probably the Karolyis, a bunch of other coaches were all in on it and every one of them should be convicted and their programs shut down. I'm friends with a lot of gymnasts that had horribly hosed up coaches and that kind of behavior just enabled guys like Nassar (one girl's gym had coaches tape thumbtacks to their heels to force them to walk on their toes at all time, for example) I sort of just assume every Olympics is built on a mountain of physical and emotional abuse
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Jan 17, 2018 22:25
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morestuff posted:I sort of just assume every Olympics is built on a mountain of physical and emotional abuse Gymnastics in particular seems to be a focal point of awful treatment of kids.
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Jan 17, 2018 22:28
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Mahoning posted:I thought I saw a headline today or yesterday stating that USAG wouldn't pursue any lawsuits in regards to Maroney's NDA. Which is good in a "if you did it, it would be the worst possible look for an organization that is already in the crosshairs" kind of way. Everyone wanted it lifted so she could also speak in front of him in court yesterday with the other victims. They turned a deaf ear toward it. Chrissy Teigen, Kristen Bell and others offered to pay the fine for her. Today, a day too late, they come out and say they won’t enforce it, and only because they got universally poo poo on.
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Jan 17, 2018 22:30
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Crazy Ted posted:I honestly don't know what the hell you do here. What would be the best way to effectively destroy an organization and replace it on the fly? Because that's what really is going to have to happen. USA Gymnastics put it in writing that McKayla Maroney would basically be fined $100,000 for telling anyone about her sexual assault, and I don't really see how there's any coming back from that without gutting the whole thing, starting over, and treating the Karolyi's - along with many other people - like pariahs. Well, the NDA is way more boilerplate than criminal. Anytime you have a civil agreement on that you usually have an NDA in place, and an NDA is only as good as its penalty. I wouldn't be surprised if that figure wasn't put up by Maroney's lawyers, otherwise they wouldn't have gotten the deal they were looking for. What you do is press charges against anyone who knew of what the trainer was doing, or was reported something and didn't go to the police.
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Jan 17, 2018 22:36
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Mahoning posted:Not really since Penn State players weren’t the victims in the Sandusky case. Punishing the Penn State football team was not punishing the victims. I was referring more to the cycle of arguments about who needs to be punished/impacting victims or unrelated people.
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Jan 17, 2018 22:39
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Crazy Ted posted:I honestly don't know what the hell you do here. What would be the best way to effectively destroy an organization and replace it on the fly? Because that's what really is going to have to happen. USA Gymnastics put it in writing that McKayla Maroney would basically be fined $100,000 for telling anyone about her sexual assault, and I don't really see how there's any coming back from that without gutting the whole thing, starting over, and treating the Karolyi's - along with many other people - like pariahs. The Karolyis are for sure guilty of perpetuating the cycle of emotional abuse gymnasts go through if nothing else. President Simon should've stepped down after that bullshit comment about it being impossible to stop a sexual predator.
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Jan 17, 2018 22:44
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Crazy Ted posted:If you want a depressing read, Google around on how often Chinese youth gymnasts end up homeless or unprepared to deal with adulthood if they don't make it to the national team. Yeah, gymnasts, especially girl and women gymnasts, tend to fall out of the highest level competitions by the time they hit college. I remember China coming under fire for underage gymnasts, mostly because they're lighter and a tad more courageous when it comes to doing big moves. By the time they get to college, for whatever reason, they're no longer competing for Olympic spots. Men's is not as bad, at least from my observations. e: Most women, from what I've seen, have at most two Olympic competitions in them and then they may do an individual event (like that one competitor from I believe Russia). Men you see coming back repeatedly for whatever reason. Why I have no clue, but again, this is from someone who only really pays attention once every four years as a whole. iospace fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Jan 17, 2018 |
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Jan 17, 2018 23:18
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I don't know exactly where else to put this since there isn't a dedicated thread to the whole disaster, so I'll just put this here since we were discussing Larry Nassar yesterday:quote:Interviewing a number of former MSU athletes, the Detroit News found that at least 14 MSU staffers and representatives were made aware of Nassar’s abuse over more than two decades and beginning as early as 1992, and nothing was ever done about him. Among those officials notified of a Title IX complaint and police report against Nassar was MSU President Lou Anna Simon. Quote from Deadspin but the full article is here. FOURTEEN university officials knew and did nothing.
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Jan 18, 2018 17:37
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Crazy Ted posted:I don't know exactly where else to put this since there isn't a dedicated thread to the whole disaster, so I'll just put this here since we were discussing Larry Nassar yesterday: 1992! Five years earlier than originally reported.
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Jan 18, 2018 17:41
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AsInHowe posted:1992! Five years earlier than originally reported. Burn the MSU Athletic Department to the ground.
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Jan 18, 2018 17:43
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Crazy Ted posted:I don't know exactly where else to put this since there isn't a dedicated thread to the whole disaster, so I'll just put this here since we were discussing Larry Nassar yesterday: Christ, that's worse than Penn State. Burn that whole loving thing down and salt the earth.
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Jan 18, 2018 17:50
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Crazy Ted posted:I don't know exactly where else to put this since there isn't a dedicated thread to the whole disaster, so I'll just put this here since we were discussing Larry Nassar yesterday: I want to throw up.
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Jan 18, 2018 17:51
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It's sickening what people will do to protect their big-money gymnastics programs
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Jan 18, 2018 17:54
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A really good dog. https://mobile.twitter.com/nickmonacelli/status/953353876215918593
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Jan 18, 2018 17:58
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Nassar apparently also submitted a six page single-spaced letter to the judge saying he didn't have the fortitude to keep going through the victim statements. The judge said something to the effect of "I didn't make this choice, you did."
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Jan 18, 2018 18:06
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Inspector_666 posted:Nasser apparently also submitted a six page single-spaced letter to the judge saying he didn't have the fortitude to keep going through the victim statements. The judge said something to the effect of "I didn't make this choice, you did."
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Jan 18, 2018 18:08
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Crazy Ted posted:You forgot to mention the most incredible part: he couldn't sit through the victim statements because what the victims were doing to him by recalling the details of his sexual assaults again them was "mentally cruel". He should be strapped down clockwork orange style and have his eyelids forced open Also all the USA Gymnastics and MSU officials should be on the defendant stand right next to him
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Jan 18, 2018 18:22
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AsInHowe posted:A really good dog. Therapy dogs are legit. I spent several days in the cardiac unit in the hospital last year, and on my second or third night, when I was feeling absolutely down in the dumps and lonely, missing my wife and my dog, they brought therapy dogs through the unit. One of them, a golden retriever who had apparently been completely skittish around everyone else, wanted nothing else than to jump up onto my bed and snuggle at my feet. Made me so goddamn happy that I cried.
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Jan 18, 2018 18:27
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Timby posted:One of them, a golden retriever who had apparently been completely skittish around everyone else, wanted nothing else than to jump up onto my bed and snuggle at my feet. Made me so goddamn happy that I cried. 
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Jan 18, 2018 18:31
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Timby posted:Therapy dogs are legit. I spent several days in the cardiac unit in the hospital last year, and on my second or third night, when I was feeling absolutely down in the dumps and lonely, missing my wife and my dog, they brought therapy dogs through the unit. One of them, a golden retriever who had apparently been completely skittish around everyone else, wanted nothing else than to jump up onto my bed and snuggle at my feet. Made me so goddamn happy that I cried. goddamnit that's adorable 
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Jan 18, 2018 18:37
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The NFL is now, in addition to asking for name/SS#, etc information from reporters for Super Bowl credentials, is now requiring racial identification. This will definitely go over well. WaPo posted:For this year’s game, the league asked the FBI to perform security checks on all credentialed personnel, including members of the media, (NFL spokesman Brian) McCarthy said. The NFL’s security department, which controls the composition of the application form, attempted to make the press credentialing process “consistent with checks that are done for others who receive a working credential,” which includes requesting racial information.
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Jan 18, 2018 21:33
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https://usagym.org/pages/post.html?PostID=21195 Looks like USA Gymnastics is finally dissociating itself from the Karolyis, or at least ceasing training at their ranch. Should the Nassar stuff have its own thread? Seems like it merits one, but I don't think I'm the right person to start it.
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Jan 18, 2018 22:57
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Great popular sport/country/world /time we're living through.
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Jan 18, 2018 23:02
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General Dog posted:https://usagym.org/pages/post.html?PostID=21195 It's definitely weird that it's overtaken this thread. Certainly a big enough story to warrant one.
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Jan 18, 2018 23:16
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I will make one up later, if no one is done so.
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Jan 18, 2018 23:36
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