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Toplowtech posted:Hey i do agree with most your points, i already pointed out in this thread i believe #metoo is going to crash and burn over some nonsense (just before the aziz thing started in fact), because of the terrible qualities of a small minority of feminist INTERNET warriors and the fact the people in the other side are professional Hollywood machine pr men and women. It's not a loving conspiracy, it's business. And there is a side that's far much better at it. If you find yourself agreeing with Rapey Joe, please see a medical professional immediately. Babe.net is literally "for girls who don't give a gently caress", this is what happens when you have journalism without standards. There's a reason real journalists cross their Ts and dot their Is before going to press with something like this, it's precisely so the focus stays on the story and not the storyteller. You can just say "if anyone dismisses Grace because of this then they're uninformed" but that's just it, it's much easier for them to be uninformed and catch a wrong initial impression when poo poo gets this sloppy and irresponsible.
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Jan 18, 2018 23:38
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Nucleic Acids posted:Maybe I'm just too cynical, but it's depressing to imagine that this could get drowned out by Babe loving up their reporting of the Ansari story in terms of #MeToo. It'll be done by a bunch of larger, better equipped and more experienced publications, who'll then write op eds in a few months, wondering how it all fell apart. It's not because they want it to fall apart, it'll be because high end journalists have a tendency to feel very territorial in the face of online competitors or people who did it 'the wrong way' you can see it in the venomous reaction to Michael Wolff as well.
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Jan 18, 2018 23:52
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Why does Graham Norton keep coming up in this thread? Is he a rapist too?
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Jan 19, 2018 00:12
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One goon threw shade at another goon who worked for The Graham Norton Show by snidely remarking that, surely, Graham Norton would have broke this story in a much more professional way than babe.com. Or something.
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Jan 19, 2018 00:16
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esperterra posted:One goon threw shade at another goon who worked for The Graham Norton Show by snidely remarking that, surely, Graham Norton would have broke this story in a much more professional way than babe.com. Well, he probably would have.
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Jan 19, 2018 00:21
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Not saying what Ansari did is acceptable, but Ansari being front page news while all the Larry Nassar poo poo is flying under the radar is ... disappointing? ( not the best phrase, I know) Nassar and his enablers were a Weinstein/stunt guy/massive cover-up that MeToo was supposed to bring the light. Instead we get a babe.net pissing match
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Jan 19, 2018 00:57
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Not saying what Ansari did is acceptable, but Ansari being front page news while all the Larry Nassar poo poo is flying under the radar is ... disappointing? ( not the best phrase, I know) The Nassar victim impact statements were prime time network news last night, with no mention of Ansari in sight.
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Jan 19, 2018 00:59
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Nassar is all over the news. His sentencing hearing is currently going on and his stupid letter was widely reported today.
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Jan 19, 2018 01:01
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I've heard about the Nassar stuff for years now, and I don't follow any sports, let alone gymnastics. It's insane to me that he still got work after poo poo came out, but then again Terry Richardson still gets work so this world is pretty hosed up. Not related to Hollywood, but reports from the UN have come out: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/jan/18/sexual-assault-and-harassment-rife-at-united-nations-staff-claim
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Jan 19, 2018 01:11
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Not saying what Ansari did is acceptable, but Ansari being front page news while all the Larry Nassar poo poo is flying under the radar is ... disappointing? ( not the best phrase, I know) The guy is getting 60 years in prison.
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Jan 19, 2018 03:13
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Ugh. https://twitter.com/velocciraptor/status/953749672526360576
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Jan 19, 2018 21:46
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Babe is right to do so.
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Jan 19, 2018 21:48
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How so? They are reinforcing the perception that the story didn't matter to them, the advertising did.
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Jan 19, 2018 21:52
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The Nassar story is going to get huge with the Olympics just weeks away. Its going to be all over the news in the buildup. You've got a young Olympic gold medalist giving a testimony of being abused as a child in a system that enabled and covered it up. This is a shitshow.
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Jan 19, 2018 21:58
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:How so? They are reinforcing the perception that the story didn't matter to them, the advertising did. Yeah, also treating your story about what has now become a social movement as a "scoop" furthers the bullshit of people saying witch hunt or women make it up
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Jan 19, 2018 22:29
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:How so? They are reinforcing the perception that the story didn't matter to them, the advertising did. Oh yeah, that's very distinct from literally every other media outlet, and definitely more shameless too. This pathetic mean girls poo poo means nothing.
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Jan 19, 2018 22:52
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All I know is I never heard of Babe.net before this and now that I'm a little familiar with them I'm pretty confident I'll never be going out of my way to read them.
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Jan 19, 2018 22:54
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Oh yeah, that's very distinct from literally every other media outlet, and definitely more shameless too. This pathetic mean girls poo poo means nothing. quote:Woohoo, look at us, look how well we've done out of this woman's trauma. Yay! \o/ News you can trust. Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Jan 19, 2018 |
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Jan 19, 2018 23:30
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STAC Goat posted:The Nassar story is going to get huge with the Olympics just weeks away. Its going to be all over the news in the buildup. You've got a young Olympic gold medalist giving a testimony of being abused as a child in a system that enabled and covered it up. This is a shitshow. it's not just one, it's all of them. Aly Raisman is the most prominent one speaking today, but at various places and times we've had confirmation from her, Simone Biles, Jordan Wiebner, McKayla Maroney, and Gabby Douglas. That's over 50% of the 8 athletes on the last two gold medal winning gymnastics teams, girls who were so recognizable that they were basically the stars of the US coverage of the Olympics. And of course, NBC, the people showing the games, are complicit in this. They're unlikely to own up to their mistakes this year but if you just went by NBC's coverage of USA Gymnastics, you'd think Bela Karolyi was a national hero instead of a tyrant who protected abusers and built a system around breaking down young women.
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Jan 19, 2018 23:36
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teacup posted:Yeah, also treating your story about what has now become a social movement as a "scoop" furthers the bullshit of people saying witch hunt or women make it up Those people also discounted decades of testimony with 'why didn't come forward at the time?' or 'what did they think would happen?' they're scum. They're people who think all 40 women or whatever it was who accused Bill Cosby all made it up separately, or that Depp couldn't have beaten his wife because he didn't beat the others. The decorum of the reporting doesn't loving matter unless you help them pretend it does.
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Jan 19, 2018 23:52
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Snowman_McK posted:Those people also discounted decades of testimony with 'why didn't come forward at the time?' or 'what did they think would happen?' they're scum. They're people who think all 40 women or whatever it was who accused Bill Cosby all made it up separately, or that Depp couldn't have beaten his wife because he didn't beat the others. The decorum of the reporting doesn't loving matter unless you help them pretend it does. It absolutely does matter because life isn't actually black and white. Not everyone who disagrees with you is "scum". Not everyone who will look at a source like Babe and think "these people don't seem kosher" and as a result question the stories they print, is "scum", or stupid, or unreachable. The perceived legitimacy of the delivery system for a message is integral to how likely that message is to be taken seriously, and repeated, and acted upon. Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 00:03
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Not everyone who disagrees with you is "scum". Not everyone who will look at a source like Babe and think "these people don't seem kosher" and as a result question the stories they print, is "scum", or stupid, or unreachable. The perceived legitimacy of the delivery system for a message is integral to how likely that message is to be taken seriously, and repeated, and acted upon. This is not, and should not be a difficult concept to grasp. "I was going to think a demonstrable sex pest was a sex pest, but I read it in a place that seemed concerned about advertising revenue. This is a morally defensible position." Lovely Joe Stalin posted:If your default position is that people are unreachable, then no poo poo, you won't reach them. And nothing will change. That's not my position at all. Are you going to judge Ansari based on how Babe approached the story? I'm assuming that your answer is no, because the alternative is stupid. The chorus of people that worry about reporting decorum all add up to a unified voice that sounds very much like a group of people who worry more about the decorum of a website that whether a self identified feminist tried to jam his fingers down a woman's throat. By worrying about whether some vague anomalous mass of people will be reached, you change whether they will be reached. Because you help reinforce the idea that the purity of the website matters more than what Ansari did. Snowman_McK fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 00:05
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You are being wilfully obtuse.
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Jan 20, 2018 00:06
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When the presumed integrity of the delivery system (as opposed to its complicitness in enabling this poo poo) is precluding societal change, that's presuming way more value in journalism as it operates within, you know, a system that allows rape and misogyny and various other heinous things to occur. Making this about whether you're going to inevitably give more ROI to babe.com or CNN's advertising is not the point. Same goes with making this about who sits where on the totem pole advantages CNN as an entity within the way things work now. It's antithetical to the change people are trying to start, which is that news sites are just as complicit in treating these things as scandals that quickly normalize back to the ways these things happened in the first place. No one should care about upholding the integrity of CNN vs babe.com lol because you've already missed the point by then. People talking a few pages back about how this was a bad PR opportunity for a Netflix exec for instance aren't understanding that this isn't about whether someone is prepared to give a statement, it's how inadequate things are if you have to be prepared to give a loving statement about someone getting sexually assaulted. It's normalizing things without even realizing it. Even if you presume that it'll be part of a change, then you have to ask yourself if a company having better PR can't undermine change, and it sure as hell can when people are debating whether CNN looks better than babe.com on reporting scandal more nicely. Hell, the retributive way people perceive justice already ignored that Nassar just complained about being "tortured" having to listen to his victims' accounts of their assault in favor of saying that the coverage wasn't (re)vengeful enough in terms of media saturation. Don't worry about the perception, worry about whether justice is happening.
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Jan 20, 2018 00:10
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Snowman_McK posted:"I was going to think a demonstrable sex pest was a sex pest, but I read it in a place that seemed concerned about advertising revenue. This is a morally defensible position." But the fact that the story is good shouldn't absolve or excuse their garbage site, because source verification and trust is also an extremely important and currently relevant issue in the Donald Trump "fake news" world we're living in. Breitbart runs real stories sometimes, but just because they get a scoop that doesn't mean we should gloss over their shoddy reporting and trust them implicitly. Calling out the reporting is important, not because this specific story might tank the metoo movement (no story, even a straight up fake one, is going to suddenly stop this. If it loses steam it'll be because of disinterest or because we reach a point where the next step gets hard and people lose the will to tackle issues harder than the specific cases that have come up so far), but rather because if we as a society ignore the process then the more publications will take more shortcuts until it reaches a point where it does impact believability of not just specific stories but reporting in general. And yes we should call out CNN and other big sites for their poo poo too.
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Jan 20, 2018 00:17
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Yeah, I don't see why anyone feels the need to tie Babe.net's credibility to "Grace" or MeToo. Like, the National Enquirer reports true stories and breaks stuff sometimes. A trashy tabloid is still a trashy tabloid.
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Jan 20, 2018 00:20
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Snowman_McK posted:
If Ansari had not admitted to the story being true, and had in fact denied it, then yes, lacking any other corroboration, or 'Grace' coming forward, I would be looking at this story with scepticism. Because scepticism is the natural, and correct, response to a source of information which seems unreliable. That isn't to say that I would absolutely disbelieve the story, but I wouldn't necessarily believe it either. What you seem to be advocating is a standard by which I could make a blog tomorrow, accuse someone of being a sex weirdo, and expect to have them ruined by Sunday.
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Jan 20, 2018 00:20
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I don't think it's about whether Babe has integrity so much as whether they actually care about anything other than page views. They probably do, but they are kind of doing a good job of obscuring that data. However that really is an entirely separate issue. Trying to intimate meaning to the sexual misconduct awareness movement from their naive, crass self-promotion is tilting at windmills. Edit: basically I'm saying the same thing as the posts above mine precision fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 00:25
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:If Ansari had not admitted to the story being true, and had in fact denied it, then yes, lacking any other corroboration, or 'Grace' coming forward, I would be looking at this story with scepticism. So, it matters in an alternate universe where what didn't happen happened. The fact that he didn't deny it sort of suggests Babe actually did their homework, and the only problem is their Mean Girls approach to CNN's pretty fuckin' lovely response. It's not actually about journalistici integrity, it's entirely about decorum. quote:What you seem to be advocating is a standard by which I could make a blog tomorrow, accuse someone of being a sex weirdo, and expect to have them ruined by Sunday. No. It's advocating that Babe's writers getting into a pissing match with CNN doesn't matter at all, and you worrying about its impact on their integrity is what helps us worry more about the form than the substance of an accusation. Peaceful Anarchy posted:"I heard this guy did some hosed up poo poo, but I see the people reporting it are a clickbait blog trying to be journalists so I'm not sure it's true." Which is a hosed up conclusion to draw, especially in light of Ansari not denying it in any way.
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Jan 20, 2018 00:28
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If CDAN is to be believed, within the year the hammer is going to come down on Paramount and Dan Schneider. Rumours have followed him for years, but the belief is that people in Paramount protected him because he spun constant gold for them. Supposedly Jamie-Lynn Spears and Amanda Byrnes are pushing hard for their cases to be heard.
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Jan 20, 2018 11:37
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DrVenkman posted:If CDAN is to be believed, within the year the hammer is going to come down on Paramount and Dan Schneider. Rumours have followed him for years, but the belief is that people in Paramount protected him because he spun constant gold for them. Supposedly Jamie-Lynn Spears and Amanda Byrnes are pushing hard for their cases to be heard. I hope so. It's about goddamn time.
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Jan 20, 2018 12:02
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:You are being wilfully obtuse. It's true though, this media jockeying, bigtiming bullshit means nothing to anyone not in the industry. If you think for a single second HLN is any more 'credible' than babe.net you've been had. In fact, media rats squabbling over who eats a better class of trash is way more squalid than lack of tact. DrVenkman posted:If CDAN is to be believed, within the year the hammer is going to come down on Paramount and Dan Schneider. Rumours have followed him for years, but the belief is that people in Paramount protected him because he spun constant gold for them. Supposedly Jamie-Lynn Spears and Amanda Byrnes are pushing hard for their cases to be heard. This one is gonna be Subway Jared level bad.
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Jan 20, 2018 16:25
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:It's true though, this media jockeying, bigtiming bullshit means nothing to anyone not in the industry. If you think for a single second HLN is any more 'credible' than babe.net you've been had. In fact, media rats squabbling over who eats a better class of trash is way more squalid than lack of tact. Yeah but the next time some rear end in a top hat is accused they can try the "This is just like Ansari and the hit-job by Babe" and people might just buy it. If the Washington Post hadn't been very careful with the Roy Moore story, there'd be a (known) pedophile sitting in the U.S. senate.
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Jan 20, 2018 19:19
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It's possibly to criticize journalistic practice without necessarily implying that the story is false. In whatever job you do, if you make a fuckup, it's valuable to figure out how not to make that fuckup again, even if everything turned out alright regardless of the fuckup. One thing I've noticed about some of #MeToo stuff is that people are reading a lot into innocent and true statements. "Hey, Babe maybe made a few missteps in their coverage of this story, which could compromise their credibility with some people. While I believe their account, here's some things they could improve." "OH WHAT, SO YOU DON'T BELIEVE THE STORY? WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING ANSARI?" "Seeing a penis against your will, while bad, is not as bad as being raped. Various things can all be bad without all bad things being equally bad." "WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING FLASHERS AND SEXUAL HARASSERS?" I understand that a lot of this has to do with the deplorable way in which these accusations have been handled in the past, but it does come off as a bit over the top.
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Jan 20, 2018 19:30
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:It's true though, this media jockeying, bigtiming bullshit means nothing to anyone not in the industry. If you think for a single second HLN is any more 'credible' than babe.net you've been had. In fact, media rats squabbling over who eats a better class of trash is way more squalid than lack of tact. It’s going to hurt too. I grew up with half his shows. I loved Amanda Bynes as kid, and was shocked when she went a little bit insane. This will probably explain why. 
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Jan 20, 2018 19:37
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jet sanchEz posted:If the Washington Post hadn't been very careful with the Roy Moore story, there'd be a (known) pedophile sitting in the U.S. senate. It was still a close call anyway, and the reason why is far closer to the bone. CelticPredator posted:It’s going to hurt too. I grew up with half his shows. I loved Amanda Bynes as kid, and was shocked when she went a little bit insane. This will probably explain why. Well, I don't think she "went insane" so much as her schizophrenia became acute and onset right around the age it typically does in young women. Anyway, it's definitely not going to be hard to convince people that Dan Schneider is capable of all kinds of sick poo poo. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 19:38
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PT6A posted:It's possibly to criticize journalistic practice without necessarily implying that the story is false. Part of the larger point is that "journalism," in the traditional sense, is clinically dead and what we occasionally see from the Washington Post, once in a blue moon from the New York Times, and very, very rarely from longform outlets on the Internet is just the final death spasms before rigor mortis sets in. So arguing whether Babe or HLN comes out smelling better in their slapfight is like asking if you want Frank's or Tabasco for your enema.
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Jan 20, 2018 19:45
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The Bezos-owned Washington Post has no leg to stand on whatsoever regarding integrity.
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Jan 20, 2018 19:48
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The Bezos-owned Washington Post has no leg to stand on whatsoever regarding integrity. They've got more of one than the New York Times, which was a blatant and open tool of the Obama Administration. (The White House wanted the Guardian and WaPo to sit on the PRISM / NSA story. They refused, so they leaked a whitewashed, sanitized version to the Times so they could rush it to print and get out in front of the Guardian and Post. It was disgusting.)
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Jan 20, 2018 19:50
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Funny you bring that up, because the Times and the Post have been handwringing and clucking their tongues nonstop over Chelsea Manning, who brought them a bombshell story back whenever - you know, the thing that got her sent to military prison - which they passed on because being adversarial to state power is bad for the way they do "journalism", which is based on privilege, access and little else. When stuff like that happens, I can't even begin to pretend to be upset that some 22 year old reacted in a couthless way or whatever to TV news anchors trying to bury her for the sake of some totally vague appeal to fuckin moral turpitude. The whole industry bottom feeds until they want to get up on their hind legs and pat themselves on the back and it's honestly sickening to watch.
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Jan 20, 2018 19:57
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