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appropriatemetaphor posted:Coming from EU4 I'm not sure what to like "do" in this game? Like I'm playing as Italy, got Ethiopia, conquered Yugo/Albania. Then World War 2 breaks out and Germany (my IRON FRIEND or whatever) conquers all of France/Low Countries. I grabbed Greece/Turkey, but not sure what to do now; I feel like I have "enough" territory but the war I guess goes for forever? I'm going to grab Iraq but I feel like I'm just sorta watching stuff happen with no real end goal in mind. Like what if I don't want to conquer the world? *in games releasing DLC every fiscal quater voice* Hoi4 is good.
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Jan 18, 2018 01:41
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HoI is much less of a sandbox where you can just gently caress around than other paradox games - youre better off setting a goal for yourself when you start a game (like getting cheevos)
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Jan 18, 2018 01:49
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HerraS posted:HoI is much less of a sandbox where you can just gently caress around than other paradox games - youre better off setting a goal for yourself when you start a game (like getting cheevos) Yeah the country selection process is much less about what kind of sandbox you want and more about what kind of war you want to fight - Germany is kind of the classic "me vs. everyone" focused a lot on aggression and with the industrial capacity to back it up. France is if you want a heavily defensive land war, the UK if you want to do a lot with planes and boats, that sort of thing. You don't really have as much freedom to do something like say, picking Brazil and deciding to conquor all of South America (you can do that, but half of it will be trivial conquests of nations way weaker than you and the other half will be a prolonged hellwar where you most likely have to force every Allied power into capitulation by yourself if you want to keep any of your gains).
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Jan 18, 2018 02:11
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Yeah the country selection process is much less about what kind of sandbox you want and more about what kind of war you want to fight - Germany is kind of the classic "me vs. everyone" focused a lot on aggression and with the industrial capacity to back it up. France is if you want a heavily defensive land war, the UK if you want to do a lot with planes and boats, that sort of thing. You don't really have as much freedom to do something like say, picking Brazil and deciding to conquor all of South America (you can do that, but half of it will be trivial conquests of nations way weaker than you and the other half will be a prolonged hellwar where you most likely have to force every Allied power into capitulation by yourself if you want to keep any of your gains). IMO this is why Death or Dishonor is much more interesting than TfV. When I try Commonwealth countries in TfV I feel railroaded by the focus tree and can't really affect the greater war much by the time I get past that (though I never tried a 'loyal'/Allied tree). Even countries with generic focus trees but in strategic positions are more engaging than Australia. A competent fascist Greece, communist Turkey, etc seem to help their respective factions a lot more.
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Jan 18, 2018 02:45
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It's like how people look at the ideal navy composition arguments, but the reality is that given the timeframe of the game you are either building a small handful of ships based on what your economy will bear, or you are Germany having beaten Russia and you are crash building an entire navy from scratch in 3 boring years to take on the UK/US.
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Jan 18, 2018 15:10
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Serbs running the HoI wiki?
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Jan 18, 2018 16:39
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Alchenar posted:It's like how people look at the ideal navy composition arguments, but the reality is that given the timeframe of the game you are either building a small handful of ships based on what your economy will bear, or you are Germany having beaten Russia and you are crash building an entire navy from scratch in 3 boring years to take on the UK/US. If my experience fighting invading Japan as China is anything to go by, Germany can probably just send a stream of single submarines to the English Channel one at a time to provoke long naval engagements, while pouring infinite naval bombers and fighters into the air zone above. I destroyed the entire Japanese navy as China that way, the UK and US would probably go the same way.
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Jan 18, 2018 19:07
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ArchangeI posted:It's a period known best for the term "total war", though. But there are enough wars that ended without needing a complete invasion (Japan, Winter War) to make the possibility something reasonable in game. It is seriously discouraging to be stuck in a permanent war as South Africa after you essentially took all the Portuguese settlements there but can't manage to launch an invasion of Europe.
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Jan 19, 2018 08:01
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joepinetree posted:But there are enough wars that ended without needing a complete invasion (Japan, Winter War) to make the possibility something reasonable in game. It is seriously discouraging to be stuck in a permanent war as South Africa after you essentially took all the Portuguese settlements there but can't manage to launch an invasion of Europe. They're definitely moving away from "All wars must be total" though. China can defeat Japan without invading the Home Islands next patch, for instance.
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Jan 19, 2018 09:01
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I'm finally trying Canada in TfV, and I can't figure out one of their earlier national focuses. Shadow factories won't go off because there isn't a factory slot in northwestern Canada even though I've built 3 infrastructure there. Mousing over the slots just brings up a tooltip that says something like "Wasteland: 0" What gives? How the hell am I actually supposed to get the focus (and co tiniest with the true so I can make my own drat oil).
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Jan 19, 2018 09:53
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TsarZiedonis posted:I'm finally trying Canada in TfV, and I can't figure out one of their earlier national focuses. Shadow factories won't go off because there isn't a factory slot in northwestern Canada even though I've built 3 infrastructure there. Mousing over the slots just brings up a tooltip that says something like "Wasteland: 0" What gives? How the hell am I actually supposed to get the focus (and co tiniest with the true so I can make my own drat oil). An insult to my glorious hometown of Yellowknife is what's going on.
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Jan 19, 2018 15:45
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Gort posted:They're definitely moving away from "All wars must be total" though. China can defeat Japan without invading the Home Islands next patch, for instance. I feel like they (or some modder somewhere) should do this for America too. Dropping a couple of nukes on, like, DC and NYC should be enough to get them to sit down at the negotiating table. No need to go full Man In The High Castle, cause I bet that can get really tedious and dumb if you're playing some minor power.
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Jan 19, 2018 16:00
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Soup du Journey posted:I feel like they (or some modder somewhere) should do this for America too. Dropping a couple of nukes on, like, DC and NYC should be enough to get them to sit down at the negotiating table. No need to go full Man In The High Castle, cause I bet that can get really tedious and dumb if you're playing some minor power. The big problem currently is that while nukes lower national unity, most countries have some way to raise their national unity, and national unity can't drop below zero plus any modifiers. What this means is that currently, Japan's national unity can't drop below like 45%, so you've gotta invade 55% of their victory points to make them capitulate. This is all going to change in the next patch - National Unity's gone, replaced with War Support and Stability, so hopefully a bunch of the quirks that National Unity brought to the game (such as nations being able to take infinity nukes without surrendering) should be gone too.
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Jan 19, 2018 16:46
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Soup du Journey posted:I feel like they (or some modder somewhere) should do this for America too. Dropping a couple of nukes on, like, DC and NYC should be enough to get them to sit down at the negotiating table. No need to go full Man In The High Castle, cause I bet that can get really tedious and dumb if you're playing some minor power. After nuking the US down to minimum national unity, you only need to take one of their major urban centers plus a bit more to get them to capitulate. California, Texas, and a bit of the Southeast is enough, for instance. The problem with Japan is that they get a ton of NU bonuses so you have to conquer like half the country, and there's no safe land route to get onto the Japanese islands so you have to invade entirely by sea.
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Jan 19, 2018 17:26
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The country after Japan that annoyed me most with its ridiculous National Unity was Italy. You could conquer the entire country except for Sicily and they still wouldn't surrender, which is mad if you compare it to the actual history.
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Jan 19, 2018 18:13
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I usually try to avoid invading through the Alps (like any sane commander) and instead pin their army there by holding on the French side while landing an invasion force further south on the boot. Because the AI never sees fit to garrison the southern part of the country it's pretty easy to get a foot hold then race north. By the time you get to the northern part of the country whatever's left of their army is usually starving to death in Milan. If they do hold out for a while it's pretty easy to bypass them at that point and keep pushing towards other targets with only a token force left to encircle whoever you trapped in Italy. Psychotic Weasel fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 19, 2018 18:31
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Psychotic Weasel posted:...Because the AI never sees fit to garrison the southern part of the country... Also, me. But then I had Gibraltar and the Suez locked down, fleets owning the Med, and flocks of torpedo bombers overhead. Then some magical bullshit force lands out of the mists of time or something, I dunno wtf. 
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Jan 19, 2018 19:58
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It would be nice if sinking ships caused a stability/war support hit. If Japan or England loses its entire fleet they should really surrender faster...
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Jan 20, 2018 02:45
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Psychotic Weasel posted:avoid invading through the Alps (like any sane commander) Barcaing up the wrong tree there boy. Butch Banner fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 14:06
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Arven posted:It would be nice if sinking ships caused a stability/war support hit. If Japan or England loses its entire fleet they should really surrender faster... well this is where games fail, the axis never planed on invading america but you are forced to in hoi
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Jan 20, 2018 19:49
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HorrificExistence posted:well this is where games fail, the axis never planed on invading america but you are forced to in hoi In fairness, the Axis didn't plan for a lot of things they probably should have.
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Jan 20, 2018 20:37
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If the Axis can't win the war in a historical way then lol, just lol.
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Jan 20, 2018 22:32
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Wooper posted:If the Axis can't win the war in a historical way then lol, just lol. Wooper posted:in a historical way 
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Jan 20, 2018 22:44
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I think that's the joke.
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Jan 20, 2018 22:52
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Wooper posted:If the Axis can't win the war in a historical way then lol, just lol. you mean by appearing to collapse and sacrificing the apparent leaders of the fascist movement while infiltrating both allies and soviets sufficiently to have a number of seemingly third tier ex-nazi nobodies installed as mayors and police chiefs and school treasurers all over central europe, eventually infecting the domestic intelligence agencies and then later still elements of the top levels of government of their former opponents, the dying superpowers? I mean it would be impressive if HOI could model all that but on the other hand no thanks I play video games for escapism.
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Jan 20, 2018 22:55
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One thing the axis definitely shouldn't do is declare war on the USSR, then 2 months later (attempt to) invade the low countries. They can barely beat Belgium and the Netherlands if they try that, let alone France
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Jan 21, 2018 00:26
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Germany should just not be going into a land war on two fronts.
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Jan 21, 2018 00:29
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TsarZiedonis posted:I'm finally trying Canada in TfV, and I can't figure out one of their earlier national focuses. Shadow factories won't go off because there isn't a factory slot in northwestern Canada even though I've built 3 infrastructure there. Mousing over the slots just brings up a tooltip that says something like "Wasteland: 0" What gives? How the hell am I actually supposed to get the focus (and co tiniest with the true so I can make my own drat oil). I just checked, and the requirement under TfV is 5% world tension. I know I've gone through that focus before. Do you have on a mod or something that's messing with it?
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Jan 21, 2018 04:20
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Nope, but I figured it out. Every time I reloaded the scenario, the provinces getting the factories in that focus changed. So, the provinces are determined randomly and in my first game I just got unlucky and it picked one that was actually impossible to develop.
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Jan 21, 2018 04:53
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pointsofdata posted:One thing the axis definitely shouldn't do is declare war on the USSR, then 2 months later (attempt to) invade the low countries. They can barely beat Belgium and the Netherlands if they try that, let alone France You turned off historical focused and then complained that shut went crazy. You were wrong.
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Jan 21, 2018 06:43
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Senor Dog posted:You turned off historical focused and then complained that shut went crazy. You were wrong. That was complaining more about the AI being stupid than being weird.
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Jan 21, 2018 08:19
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Senor Dog posted:You turned off historical focused and then complained that shut went crazy. You were wrong. The problem isn't that the ai is doing weird stuff with focuses off, it's that there don't seem to be any checks that starting a war is even vaguely a good idea
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Jan 21, 2018 10:55
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Like eu4 is completely ahistorical and the ai doesn't do anything that stupid
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Jan 21, 2018 11:48
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The thing about the ahistorical AI is that it picks focuses more or less at random and doesn't really understand what they mean. I once saw an ahistorical France start down the communist path on their focus tree, then later choose the "ban communism" option for that event. It'd be interesting if instead of just picking focuses randomly, AI nations instead had a few different preset paths they could follow, picked at random when the game starts. So you'd still get an essentially random game with lots of weird matchups happening, but the individual nations would at least be relatively sane in their decision making, at least as far as overall goals go. The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jan 21, 2018 |
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Jan 21, 2018 17:07
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I don't have a problem with countries fighting bad wars. I have an issue with the AI seemingly starting a war with no intention to win it since it is pretty clear the focus AI and tactical don't actually communicate. Like, if your gonna do the "declare war on USSR" maybe put a unit on the eastern front? Another issue i ran into is since the at least the Death or Dishonor update some countries don't seem to understand alliances. For example Romania never seems to send troops to the eastern front if the germans start the war without them. They will just sit in Romania waiting for the soviets to come.
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Jan 21, 2018 17:36
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Is there a dedicated group that does multiplayer here? So far multiplayer is a toss up. Either autists wasting 4+ hours of your life doing weird poo poo or 1000+ hour players who you pray carries your lovely 250k manpower minor faction long enough to have your units
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Jan 21, 2018 22:09
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wheres the dlc?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!!?
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Jan 21, 2018 22:20
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It's uh... one sec, where did I put it. Oh yeah! It's right here! Enjoy.
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Jan 21, 2018 22:26
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Jabshot posted:Is there a dedicated group that does multiplayer here? So far multiplayer is a toss up. Mapgoons in PGS, HOI games probably won't be up until the expansion hits though.
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Jan 21, 2018 22:35
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Butch Banner posted:Mapgoons in PGS, HOI games probably won't be up until the expansion hits though. Thanks! That thread's name doesn't really indicate what game its for.
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Jan 22, 2018 00:14
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