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GalacticAcid posted:huh, I didn’t realize proud boys were a thing outside of New York they're all over the place, it's really weird. here in austin we basically have a small contingent of every fash and supremacist group in the US even though they ever only send like 2-3 people to events, it's pretty 
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Jan 22, 2018 05:37
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What used to be one of Sac DSAs favorite bars got taken over by proud boys over the past year
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Jan 22, 2018 05:53
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GalacticAcid posted:huh, I didn’t realize proud boys were a thing outside of New York astroturfed probably
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Jan 22, 2018 06:12
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R. Guyovich posted:astroturfed probably
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Jan 22, 2018 07:50
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Proud Boys are an internet thing. It makes sense that there's going to be little groups of them in big cities anywhere.
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Jan 22, 2018 07:55
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Ace of Baes posted:they're mostly just losers with no friends, the proud boys here hang out with the iii%ers and the actual Nazis and it's like a gaggle of 8 chubby/stick like losers who obv don't have any friends then one super ripped skinhead ...which is a losing proposition, because they're just admitting that they have to join some weird tiny movement created on the Internet, with a lame uniform and a dress code, to have someone to drink beer with.
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Jan 22, 2018 16:44
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Halloween Jack posted:...which is a losing proposition, because they're just admitting that they have to join some weird tiny movement created on the Internet, with a lame uniform and a dress code, to have someone to drink beer with. Hey, don't knock it, imagine how many socialists we recruit that way :V
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Jan 22, 2018 19:55
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Halloween Jack posted:Last time I paid any attention to them, the Proud Boys were desperately trying to rebrand themselves as something more akin to the Moose Lodge; just a social club for ordinary men to drink beer together. Just imagine Squeaky Voice Teen saying "I created Western Civilization"
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Jan 22, 2018 23:09
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RiotGearEpsilon posted:Hey, don't knock it, imagine how many socialists we recruit that way :V This, I mean you'll probably have to convince them that it's "patriotic" socialism. But plenty of them hate getting cucked by their boss. I know a former proud boy and that's one of his biggest complaints.
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Jan 22, 2018 23:44
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Halloween Jack posted:Last time I paid any attention to them, the Proud Boys were desperately trying to rebrand themselves as something more akin to the Moose Lodge; just a social club for ordinary men to drink beer together.
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Jan 23, 2018 01:32
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Crowsbeak posted:This, I mean you'll probably have to convince them that it's "patriotic" socialism. Some form of Socialism that is National, perhaps?
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Jan 23, 2018 02:29
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Dreddout posted:Some form of Socialism that is National, perhaps? Hey, the guy is one of those types that is obsessed with being a civic nationalist. Getting him to support UHC is more important in my mind, then international solidarity. Also Social Nationalism is keeping The Lion in power in Syria. 
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Jan 23, 2018 02:34
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renewed membership today despite reservations here's a depressing read: https://platypus1917.org/2017/10/01/millennial-left-dead/
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Jan 23, 2018 05:50
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millenials are livng in the past. i'll name my website 1917 and use 3 trotsky quotes to start my article
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Jan 23, 2018 05:54
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Rated PG-34 posted:renewed membership today despite reservations It's a depressing read, but it also isn't founded in any real world data. It's more accurate to say that a millenial Left didn't even exist in any real sense before 2016 accelerated political discourse. The DSA, for all the problems it has, isn't the same Harringtonian organization it used to be even 2 years ago, and while it's not organized politically in any sort of electoral sense it is constructing the basis of a left wing political tradition which was destroyed by the 80s. To say they're repeating the same problems as the New Left feels farcicle on its face, because the New Left rejected Marxism as a basis for theory to embrace hippie individualism, and what Marxist organizations did exist were violently radical and isolated themselves from society under the assumption of a belief in the propaganda of the deed. The American left is at least broadly, finally, rejecting individualism as a basis to resist capitalism, and is beginning to engage in work which could form the basis of a real socialism. To declare it all prematurely dead feels like another attempt to claim the mantle of the true left by an obscure group.
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Jan 23, 2018 06:05
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I concur
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Jan 23, 2018 06:10
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Their thesis is that by joining the dsa they'd become new democrats, which is absurd on its face, because even as little as 4 years ago, the idea of the dsa becoming a legitimate political force was absurd, it being insufficientlt triangulating. In an era where neoliberal austerity has a sufficating hegemonic power, even solid social democracy is at least something. Interpreting that as a pre-emptive betrayal of real change is being way too myopic, and probably a symptom if their own failures to achieve relevance, which they're projecting.
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Jan 23, 2018 06:34
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Rated PG-34 posted:renewed membership today despite reservations ive never read a book and don't think any of this is right
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Jan 23, 2018 06:37
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Crowsbeak posted:Hey, the guy is one of those types that is obsessed with being a civic nationalist. Getting him to support UHC is more important in my mind, then international solidarity. Also Social Nationalism is keeping The Lion in power in Syria. please do not malign the ninja star party
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Jan 23, 2018 06:40
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rudatron posted:Their thesis is that by joining the dsa they'd become new democrats, which is absurd on its face, because even as little as 4 years ago, the idea of the dsa becoming a legitimate political force was absurd, it being insufficientlt triangulating. social democracy? you mean social fascism?!
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Jan 23, 2018 07:14
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i mean, you joke, but the criticism isn't entirely without merit. social democracy fell for the same reason it can't really get a foothold now, and anything constrained to that, and no further, is destined to be left behind and destroyed. but at the same time, the current situation is very difficult, and you have to take what you can get. it's only been a couple of decades since the fall of the USSR, and domestically, the scene is still dominated by the reactionary revival of reaganism, and the counter acting capitulation of the mainstream left into new labor/left (which Margaret Thatcher credited as her greatest achievement). did this guy honestly expect everyone, or even just the millennials, to suddenly pick up red books and become full party comrades overnight? it's a totally unrealistic expectation that's been advanced, that social democracy cannot ever be a transitionary phase, and instead that everyone has to jump from neoliberalism immediately to full communism, because your little reading club is low on numbers or whatever. realistically, you have to start from somewhere, and getting into the tall grass of purity politics, before you even have a coherent political organization representing the left, is defeating yourself, before the battle even begins. and the assumptions behind social democracy at least have the potential for revolution, because the logic of social democracy is that the economy has to serve the interests of the people, and if it doesn't, you change it. that's totally counter to the ideology dominating contemporary politics, which is that everything is personalized, individualized, and human beings must collectively prostrate themselves before the whims of market forces. the interests of the public is subordinated to the interests of the market, or more exactly, of capital holders. i've always maintained that the chance of a revolution within the next couple of decades is less than 1%, but that's short term guesswork, and i'm always suspicious of anyone making long-term or, worse, historically unanchored predications treated as laws - 'it is always true that'. long term, nothing is set in stone, and nobody knows what the gently caress they're talking about. there's always some faulty assumption, that nobody questioned, that ends up being upended, and there's always the black swan/x-factor, that ends up determining everything.
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Jan 23, 2018 07:52
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https://twitter.com/DSADogCaucus/status/955672400821211136 If y'all were wanting snippets of Capital juxtaposed with pictures of dang doggos, have I the thread for you, Conrads.
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Jan 23, 2018 08:03
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i'm gonna make a rudatron longpost bingo card
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Jan 23, 2018 08:34
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https://twitter.com/jetta_rae/status/955550133164285953 Can you guess which chapter?
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Jan 23, 2018 09:50
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rudatron posted:i mean, you joke, but the criticism isn't entirely without merit. social democracy fell for the same reason it can't really get a foothold now, and anything constrained to that, and no further, is destined to be left behind and destroyed. didn't read any of this
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Jan 23, 2018 10:06
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:https://twitter.com/jetta_rae/status/955550133164285953 the one where there are a lot of mobilized activists being completely squandered via a dysfunctional and toxic steering committee ?? oh, you wanted me to be specific? sorry, wouldn't want to be un-comradly!
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Jan 23, 2018 10:47
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one thing I will say is that if your local has vague bylaws that allow expulsion based on very subjective definitions of adherence to democratic socialism ideology, local/national policies, or any other witch-hunt fodder then get those bylaws defined in more detail ASAP. I'm afraid things are going to get awful messy with november on the horizon
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Jan 23, 2018 10:52
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:https://twitter.com/jetta_rae/status/955550133164285953 this is actually extremely good
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Jan 23, 2018 13:52
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Rated PG-34 posted:renewed membership today despite reservations This is kind of a confusing mish-mash that all seems predicated on "the left" as a formation that needs to swing Presidential elections or die. Nothing I have seen in my time organizing in DSA convinces me that this is the orientation of the organization, but hey who knows what will happen a year after the 2019 convention.
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Jan 23, 2018 14:32
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:To declare it all prematurely dead feels like another attempt to claim the mantle of the true left by an obscure group.
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Jan 23, 2018 15:51
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Slanderer posted:this is actually extremely good why
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Jan 23, 2018 15:54
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i just read it as another "durrrr millenials are killing us with their avocado toast and rear end eating"
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Jan 23, 2018 15:54
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Karl Barks posted:i just read it as another "durrrr millenials are killing us with their avocado toast and rear end eating" Remember, it is written by troskyists, so to them the Left has always been dead.
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Jan 23, 2018 16:02
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the platypus society puts out interesting things and they pour ice water on stuff when it needs it, but their general line seems to be "the left is dead and everything is hosed" and any kind of practical organizing is insufficiently revolutionary in that trot rabbit hole kind of way
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Jan 23, 2018 16:31
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IM DAY DAY IRL posted:the one where there are a lot of mobilized activists being completely squandered via a dysfunctional and toxic steering committee ?? based on pics of like 100+ people going our to canvas for m4a it doesn't look like it's being squandered
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Jan 23, 2018 16:38
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I understand the appeal of fascism now. When I see one of these things where someone tweets a screencap of a Facebook post that's a snippet of a conversation about another tweet quoting an article that no one in the flamewar has actually read, I just want to throw everyone involved in a big burlap sack, and throw the sack down the Gemonian Stairs.
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Jan 23, 2018 16:49
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Karl Barks posted:i just read it as another "durrrr millenials are killing us with their avocado toast and rear end eating" drama is bad though
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Jan 23, 2018 16:56
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i have a theory question and im not sure where to ask it: when and how did 'capitalism' become synonymous with 'market economies'
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Jan 23, 2018 16:59
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if you're asking when capitalism became bad it's forever but if you're asking when people became obsessed with capitalism as meritocratic religion it's the start of the cold war and matriculation with reagan
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Jan 23, 2018 17:00
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Why does that DSA person and their twitter thread think the Jacobin article is about them/their chapter in particular (it's because some people have egocentricity brain worms)
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Jan 23, 2018 17:02
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