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repiv
Aug 13, 2009


nothing some plx switches can't fix

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SlayVus
Jul 10, 2009
Grimey Drawer
Samsung really is charging as much as they can for the high capacity SSDs. $1900 for the 4tb 860 Pro and $1400 for the 860 Evo. $950/$650 for the 2tb. A MX500 2tb for like $500 and $260 for 1tb is a great deal.

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002

SlayVus posted:

Samsung really is charging as much as they can for the high capacity SSDs. $1900 for the 4tb 860 Pro and $1400 for the 860 Evo. $950/$650 for the 2tb. A MX500 2tb for like $500 and $260 for 1tb is a great deal.
just wait until micron decides to sell some of their 5300s as 4tb MX500s and the price is just $1000 flat

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"
I've a feeling Samsung will always charge more because they're more or less subsidized by Apple, who exclusively uses *their* SSDs.

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull

BIG HEADLINE posted:

I've a feeling Samsung will always charge more because they're more or less subsidized by Apple, who exclusively uses *their* SSDs.

"Exclusively" has never been true, fyi. Although Samsung always seemed to be their highest volume supplier, Apple shipped buttloads of Toshiba and Sandforce SSDs in various Mac models. In many cases it was the luck of the draw which vendor you got. There used to be people who would buy a new Mac laptop, check out the hardware info app after taking it out of the box, and if they didn't see a Samsung, would then go through the return dance to fish for one. (Apple's OEM Toshiba SSDs were kinda slow, and Apple has a 2 week, no questions asked, 100% money back return policy.)

These days Apple is shipping as close to full custom SSDs as they can get without buying their own NAND flash fabs. Several years ago they bought a fabless SSD controller design house, and over the past two-ish years they've been transitioning Mac SSDs to use them. It would be very surprising if they tied their private label SSD controllers to a single NAND flash vendor.

Palladium
May 8, 2012

Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️
I dunno, but from all the teardowns I seen of recent iPhones and iPads, Samsung is rarely sourced for DRAM and never for NAND.

Which make sense since Apple wants to avoid helping the DRAM/NAND top dog as much as possible.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002

by Fluffdaddy

BIG HEADLINE posted:

I've a feeling Samsung will always charge more because they're more or less subsidized by Apple, who exclusively uses *their* SSDs.

What?! I've seen way way more Toshiba based SSDs in Macs than anything else.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

redeyes posted:

What?! I've seen way way more Toshiba based SSDs in Macs than anything else.
And I've seen way more Samsung based SSDs in Macs, so where does that leave us?

Siochain
May 24, 2005

"can they get rid of any humans who are fans of shitheads like Kanye West, 50 Cent, or any other piece of crap "artist" who thinks they're all that?

And also get rid of anyone who has posted retarded shit on the internet."


Star War Sex Parrot posted:

And I've seen way more Samsung based SSDs in Macs, so where does that leave us?

Adata and/or Western Digital? :P

el_caballo
Feb 26, 2001
I was helping my shithead brother set up his new POWERSPEC G700 and I was like "dude they didn't install that 480 SSD" until I realized there was a weird stick on the motherboard and I learned what M.2 drives were. So that's the level of expertise I am working with.

Here's the thing: This M.2 drive seems really slow. Aren't these things supposed to be on the PCI-E pipeline? When I poke around in device manager I see a lot of stuff about SCSI interfaces, which I took to mean SATA but what the gently caress do I know? I was doing 100 other things and didn't get the model # on it. I just know it's an Intel 480 gb.

I didn't have a lot of time last night over at his house to troubleshoot. I was setting up and formatting his other drives, one of which is an EVO 850 that has a warning about RAPID mode that I couldn't quite solve. Anyway, I had Magician installed so I ran a benchmark on the EVO and got something like 3-4K sequential read/write. I ran the Magician bench on the Intel and got something like 400 write/500 read. I probably should have used whatever third-party benchmark is standard but that seemed like quite a spread from the EVO.

I did a quick look into BIOS to see if there was some switch to flip between SATA and PCI-E but nothing jumped out at me and I had to get out of there because he didn't have any more beer. I know it's some ASUS B350-Plus motherboard.

Any ideas for the next time I go over there and drink all his beer and fine tune this POWERSPEC GAMIN' RIG?

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001

Apple being thirsty for second suppliers isn't exactly unknown news to people right?

Fame Douglas
Nov 20, 2013

by Fluffdaddy

el_caballo posted:

Here's the thing: This M.2 drive seems really slow. Aren't these things supposed to be on the PCI-E pipeline? When I poke around in device manager I see a lot of stuff about SCSI interfaces, which I took to mean SATA but what the gently caress do I know? I was doing 100 other things and didn't get the model # on it. I just know it's an Intel 480 gb.

m.2 drives can be either NVMe (PCIe) or SATA.

el_caballo
Feb 26, 2001

Fame Douglas posted:

m.2 drives can be either NVMe (PCIe) or SATA.

Ah. Well, I am learning a lot about M.2 drives and a little about myself over the past 24 hours. I guess this thing is fine. Mainly because I don't want to reinstall Windows on the EVO.

Now I just gotta figure out why Magician is bitching about Rapid mode compatibility. If I remember right the code was "VID 1002" which looks like it's some incompatibility with Ryzen.

One other thing, back when I was setting up my old EVO, the hivemind here said to install some Intel driver. I think it was Intel RST. Is that still kosher?

el_caballo fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jan 25, 2018

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009



el_caballo posted:

Now I just gotta figure out why Magician is bitching about Rapid mode compatibility. If I remember right the code was "VID 1002" which looks like it's some incompatibility with Ryzen.

Don't enable Rapid Mode, it doesn't help real-world performance, only benchmarks, and adds an increased risk of data-loss if the power goes.

el_caballo
Feb 26, 2001

nielsm posted:

Don't enable Rapid Mode, it doesn't help real-world performance, only benchmarks, and adds an increased risk of data-loss if the power goes.

The SSD world moves so fast. Time has passed me by.

Nill
Aug 24, 2003

el_caballo posted:

One other thing, back when I was setting up my old EVO, the hivemind here said to install some Intel driver. I think it was Intel RST. Is that still kosher?
In ye olden time the os pack-in Intel driver had to be updated to properly support trim in all configurations. So depending on how old the system is you might need to grab a newer copy of RST, though anything version 10 or later should trim raid and non-raid drives just fine.

el_caballo
Feb 26, 2001
Thanks dudes. Well, looks like I have to make some changes to my own settings too, then.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares


el_caballo posted:

The SSD world moves so fast. Time has passed me by.



Your corporeal form isn't specced to handle that kind of load configured that way, especially in bursts

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985


el_caballo posted:

I was helping my shithead brother set up his new POWERSPEC G700

POWERSPERG

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002

by Fluffdaddy
Does anyone know how to secure erase a SSD (Samsung 830)? Seems like the Partedmagic thing costs money now?

repiv
Aug 13, 2009

redeyes posted:

Does anyone know how to secure erase a SSD (Samsung 830)? Seems like the Partedmagic thing costs money now?

Samsung Magician can create a bootable USB drive for secure erasing their drives.

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

#essereFerrari


Turn Bitlocker on and then try and use the SSD with a different system.

Zarin
Nov 11, 2008

I SEE YOU
I read the OP; good stuff. What confuses me is that right now, it seems that Samsung 960 EVO is about 50c/gb, and the Intel 750 is about $1/gb. That ... makes for an easy choice. Unless I'm missing something, which I might be; SSDs are a whole new world for me here.

That being said, I'm planning out my first complete build in 6 years, and figured I'd go whole-hog and try out NVMe. I'm certain that this motherboard and this 960 EVO are compatible, but I thought I'd go ahead and ask here anyway:
Motherboard: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188186
SSD: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147594

If there's anything I need to watch out for when setting it all up, I'd be glad to hear that as well!

For what it's worth, I'm not going to bother copying an old HDD over; I'll just fresh install and go from there.

lllllllllllllllllll
Feb 28, 2010

Now the scene's lighting is perfect!
This is a bit silly, but I'll ask. I'm about to build a PC for someone who will turn it on maybe twice a week, if at all. Is that too sparely for a ssd? I heard that's not good for them? I doubt there is data for reliability when used rarely?

Flipperwaldt
Nov 11, 2011

Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?



lllllllllllllllllll posted:

This is a bit silly, but I'll ask. I'm about to build a PC for someone who will turn it on maybe twice a week, if at all. Is that too sparely for a ssd? I heard that's not good for them? I doubt there is data for reliability when used rarely?
If you said maybe once or twice a year, you might be getting closer to there potentially being a theoretical slight risk. Once or twice a week being under power is plenty frequently.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010



lllllllllllllllllll posted:

This is a bit silly, but I'll ask. I'm about to build a PC for someone who will turn it on maybe twice a week, if at all. Is that too sparely for a ssd? I heard that's not good for them? I doubt there is data for reliability when used rarely?

I have an SSD in my laptop that I maybe use once or twice per year, if that. It's totally fine.

Actuarial Fables
Jul 29, 2014

Taco Defender

Zarin posted:

I read the OP; good stuff. What confuses me is that right now, it seems that Samsung 960 EVO is about 50c/gb, and the Intel 750 is about $1/gb. That ... makes for an easy choice. Unless I'm missing something, which I might be; SSDs are a whole new world for me here.

That being said, I'm planning out my first complete build in 6 years, and figured I'd go whole-hog and try out NVMe. I'm certain that this motherboard and this 960 EVO are compatible, but I thought I'd go ahead and ask here anyway:
Motherboard: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188186
SSD: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147594

If there's anything I need to watch out for when setting it all up, I'd be glad to hear that as well!

For what it's worth, I'm not going to bother copying an old HDD over; I'll just fresh install and go from there.

You should be all good to go. The last few generations of Intel motherboards have been NVMe-ready.

I'm just curious why you're going with a last-gen motherboard/CPU.

Zarin
Nov 11, 2008

I SEE YOU

Actuarial Fables posted:

You should be all good to go. The last few generations of Intel motherboards have been NVMe-ready.

I'm just curious why you're going with a last-gen motherboard/CPU.

That is an incredibly good question to which I don't have a good answer.

I guess, as I was doing my research, somehow I got the impression that Kaby Lake was still the most popular offering out there. I was further thrown by Coffee Lake being a six-core rather than a four-core, and wondered if it was some sort of niche design for multithreading rather than general use/gaming.

Is there a big enough difference between the two that I should regret the decision? I could probably return the motherboard/CPU and upgrade, if it's worth it.

Thoughts?

Zarin fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Jan 29, 2018

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"
Came across this after finding a user-modded BIOS for my ancient ASUS Gen3 Z68 board - evidently it's directions on how to hack the BIOS of boards back to the 6th gen to allow NVMe boot support: https://www.win-raid.com/t871f50-Guide-How-to-get-full-NVMe-support-for-all-Systems-with-an-AMI-UEFI-BIOS.html

Actuarial Fables
Jul 29, 2014

Taco Defender

Zarin posted:

That is an incredibly good question to which I don't have a good answer.

I guess, as I was doing my research, somehow I got the impression that Kaby Lake was still the most popular offering out there. I was further thrown by Coffee Lake being a six-core rather than a four-core, and wondered if it was some sort of niche design for multithreading rather than general use/gaming.

Is there a big enough difference between the two that I should regret the decision? I could probably return the motherboard/CPU and upgrade, if it's worth it.

Thoughts?

Multi-threaded applications aren't as niche as they once were, and the boost frequencies on the newer CPUs are just as good as/better than the previous generation so single-threaded applications run just as fast. It was difficult to find them in stock when they launched, so many sites would recommend getting kaby lake if you needed a new computer.

If you're planning on keeping this system around for a while, I'd strongly consider getting a coffee lake system. You may want to also post your build over in the Parts Picking thread (keep in mind that the OP was last updated before coffee lake was released) if you'd like some more opinions.

Rastor
Jun 2, 2001

Samsung has released their first Z-NAND drives:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12376/samsung-launches-zssd-sz985-up-to-800gb-of-znand

quote:

The memory cell read performance of their Z-NAND is ten times higher than their 3D TLC NAND, leading to 70% higher random read throughput than their PM963 NVMe SSD.

quote:

The SZ985 can deliver up to 750k random read IOPS, well above the 550k IOPS that Intel's Optane SSD DC P4800X is rated for.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares


u fokkn wot?

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!


The renders with the unpopulated BGA spots are weird but the technology sounds great.

Armacham
Mar 3, 2007

Then brothers in war, to the skirmish must we hence! Shall we hence?
This may be worth it's own thread in the support forum, but I thought I would ask this here first. I'm trying to install a Samsung 850 EVO in the 2.5" slot of my laptop. There is already a 256 GB drive in the M2 slot, but I wanted to expand my storage for games. The drive was intitally recognized fine, and I was able to format it and start installing stuff. I left steam alone to download. When I came back the downloads had all failed and the SSD had disappeared from both Windows and the BIOS. I am not able to get it back working. The drive works fine through a USB/Sata adapter.

I think it's either a bad cable or a bad SATA controller/ motherboard so I chat up Dell and they are telling me

quote:

We have checked the system information and found that this system model is not tested with a SSD drive in the 2.5" SATA slot. The empty slot is available for a 2.5" HDD. Hence, we are not sure if the SSD is compatible with this system

I'm pretty sure this is bullshit, but I wanted some other opinions.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985


Armacham posted:

This may be worth it's own thread in the support forum, but I thought I would ask this here first. I'm trying to install a Samsung 850 EVO in the 2.5" slot of my laptop. There is already a 256 GB drive in the M2 slot, but I wanted to expand my storage for games. The drive was intitally recognized fine, and I was able to format it and start installing stuff. I left steam alone to download. When I came back the downloads had all failed and the SSD had disappeared from both Windows and the BIOS. I am not able to get it back working. The drive works fine through a USB/Sata adapter.

I think it's either a bad cable or a bad SATA controller/ motherboard so I chat up Dell and they are telling me


I'm pretty sure this is bullshit, but I wanted some other opinions.

Tried a recommended drive in there? I think the controller is toast.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

Yeah, thats a cop-out for sure. If you have a spare 2.5 HD lying around, I would see if that gets recognized. If not, I would try the cheap option of the cable first. If thats not it either, probably the controller.

Armacham
Mar 3, 2007

Then brothers in war, to the skirmish must we hence! Shall we hence?
Oh and the best part is that originally Dell told me the drive was bad so I RMAd it to samsung and they said it was fine and sent it back. Then UPS lost it for 3 weeks, and I just got it back earlier this week. I'll have to look around and see if I have any spare 2.5" drives around anywhere or that I can borrow. I haven't been able to find any listing of recommended drives, but I'll ask support what they recommend.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985


Nightmare.

Armacham
Mar 3, 2007

Then brothers in war, to the skirmish must we hence! Shall we hence?
Update for my saga. I was able to borrow a spare 2.5" drive from someone and it was recognized fine. Guess I'll see if Samsung wants to try replacing it again without it disappearing for 3 weeks again. In the mean time I was able to convince dell to send me a new interposer cable for free.

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Knifegrab
Jul 30, 2014

Gadzooks! I'm terrified of this little child who is going to stab me with a knife. I must wrest the knife away from his control and therefore gain the upperhand.
My computer recently stopped booting. It appears to fail to recognize my ssd (which is my boot drive). All the other drives are still recognized but obviously non-bootable.

Is there bootable software I can load onto a usb drive to confirm my suspicions that my ssd is toast? My bios attempts to detect it saying "Auto detecting SATA1..." but it hangs there for a while, then jumps to a "Please insert a boot drive, or restart" screen. It doesn't even show up in my bios or boot menu when all my others do. I have tried swapping cables too so that is not the issue.

Anyone have any recommendations for that software?

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