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Everyone does, except for like 2 people who are arguing that, no, it's totally fair to send Tahani to hell because her parents messed her up psychologically, and Chidi because his anxiety has only somewhat improved and not magically vanished (again, when he's told that loving up sends not just him, but his THREE closest friends to eternal torment... I'd take at least a half hour picking a hat in that context) If you want a more straight reading, even Eleanor's test isn't really fair, because she's told she doesn't need to take one. She's directly lied to. Yes, her distrusting nature means she figures out that that IS the test, but it's the same trick Chidi gets. Jen doesn't SAY picking the wrong hat damns them all, but she knows he'll infer that. Like, give anyone in this thread two cupcakes on a plate. Most people will grab one at random. Give them two cupcakes and say that if you mess this up, you and your closest friends will be killed. I'm sooo sure everyone would be able to pick one in 2 seconds flat.  Edit: I'm a fairly indecisive person myself, (not to Chidi's degree, obviously), so maybe that's why claiming that test is fair (it's obviously very funny, and I'm fairly sure the SHOW wants us to know it's bullshit to judge him as damned based on it) bugs me so much. That situation would absolutely give me a stomachache. Gaz-L fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Jan 27, 2018 |
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Jan 27, 2018 23:25
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raditts posted:Am I the only one that thinks that these are hosed up criteria for eternal damnation They were already eternally damned, this is the criteria for appealing that decision. The system, as it has been explained to us, is supremely unfair and hosed.
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Jan 27, 2018 23:35
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WampaLord posted:They were already eternally damned, this is the criteria for appealing that decision. You could make the argument that the good/bad place is an analogy for the hosed up and arbitrary ways in which society determines our status and worth.
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Jan 27, 2018 23:39
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Regy Rusty posted:Right. The point is NOT that they haven't grown, it's that the arbitrary things this system chose as their ultimate flaws are not really something that is reasonable. They are all better people than they were to begin with (well maybe not Jason) in that they at the very least are AWARE of how their flaws can hurt other people and have a desire to change. But the ridgid bizarre structure of this afterlife doesn't care about that, it only cares about the specific flaws. I think the point is actually both. Yes, the judgments don't totally seem fair but... ultimately the characters haven't really developed over their flaws (sans Eleanor). Tahani came closest but hers also had the clearest fail-state. Jason didn't even let his get fully explained, so I can't really argue with him failing. Part of me wonders if maybe they were never going to pass a fair test, and so these tests were designed to hit them in the face with what they should be focusing on. I think they're going to get a chance to take the tests again next season. And not only do I think they will pass, but I think the tests will be more fair when they do.
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Jan 27, 2018 23:43
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The gang gets put in charge of an experimental new program, seeing if large swaths of Bad Place designees can be rehabilitated into morally ethical people, throwing the whole system into whack to one where Good Place people become teachers and Bad Place people students and everyone lives together in further moral advancement.
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Jan 27, 2018 23:46
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Klungar posted:The gang gets put in charge of an experimental new program, seeing if large swaths of Bad Place designees can be rehabilitated into morally ethical people, throwing the whole system into whack to one where Good Place people become teachers and Bad Place people students and everyone lives together in further moral advancement. With special guest stars Stone Cold and Blake Bortles, of course.
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Jan 28, 2018 00:12
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There Bias Two posted:You could make the argument that the good/bad place is an analogy for the hosed up and arbitrary ways in which society determines our status and worth. You could, but I think that's reading way more into it than Mike Schur intends to present. Also, I fail to see Chidi's indecisiveness as an anxiety disorder, because much of his anxiety stems from his ethics study. A lot of his indecisiveness and quirks stem from him overthinking all his decisions based on what Kant (or his other favorite philosophers) would say is right. It's not that Chidi can't make decisions (well not exclusively that Chidi can't make decisions, clearly some like the hat choice is exaggerated for comedy), it's that Chidi won't make decisions unless he's absolutely positively assured that they're morally right. Basically, if you go back to the trolley problem, since there is no right answer, most people will eventually decide what is the moral thing to do based on their personal beliefs; but Chidi doesn't really have any personal beliefs, he's based his life on a bunch of different moral philosophers, and a lot of different moral philosophers have conflicting ideals. We saw it first hand when Michael stuck Chidi behind the trolley, he wouldn't let the trolley hit the five people because it was right, but because he didn't have enough time to think about which philosopher he would agree with. Basically in short: MisterBibs posted:Thinking about this, I find it pretty interesting that Fake Chidi does that outs himself as Fake is basically what Real Chidi would have to do: take a deep breath and ignore ethics for one drat minute. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Jan 28, 2018 |
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Jan 28, 2018 00:53
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Gaz-L posted:Everyone does, except for like 2 people who are arguing that, no, it's totally fair to send Tahani to hell because her parents messed her up psychologically, and Chidi because his anxiety has only somewhat improved and not magically vanished (again, when he's told that loving up sends not just him, but his THREE closest friends to eternal torment... I'd take at least a half hour picking a hat in that context) 82 minutes
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Jan 28, 2018 01:06
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TwoPair posted:
I see things the other way around. Chidi studies ethics because it is a coping mechanism. He's not indecisive because he tries to consider things through too many philosophical lenses, it's because he's been suffering from analysis paralysis so severely his entire life that he is drawn to ethics as an attempt to find a solution to his endless questioning. He tries to rationalize his way through all problems, but what he probably needed was better therapeutic intervention.
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Jan 28, 2018 01:31
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I'm vexed, Uzo, vexed!
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Jan 28, 2018 01:41
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tarlibone posted:Also, it reminds me of one of the themes of the movie Defending Your Life. Oh wow, I haven't thought about that movie in a minute. My grandfather took me to see it when I was a teen, I recall it being actually pretty good.
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Jan 28, 2018 02:32
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There Bias Two posted:I see things the other way around. Chidi studies ethics because it is a coping mechanism. He's not indecisive because he tries to consider things through too many philosophical lenses, it's because he's been suffering from analysis paralysis so severely his entire life that he is drawn to ethics as an attempt to find a solution to his endless questioning. He tries to rationalize his way through all problems, but what he probably needed was better therapeutic intervention. it's also worth noting that, even if ethics doesn't help him cope or really necessarily inherently have anything to do with his problem, the simple fact that it's his field and he expends a lot of mental energy on it means his disorder's likely going to express itself in a way related to it
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Jan 28, 2018 02:41
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There's a philosophy professor at Harvard by the name of Michael Sandel. He has his course on "justice" which is basically a 12 lecture intro to philosophy online and you should check it out because it's really cool. But I'm reminded of something that he warns the class about in the first lecture, which is that the study of philosophy may not make you a better person. In fact, it may actually make you worse, at least at the beginning. Chidi reminds me of that. The show may decide that his indecisiveness is an anxiety disorder, but at the moment I think he's just that guy that studied philosphy and knows it at an intellectual level, but never synthesized it into a coherent belief system. He isn't a good person because he hasn't taken that final step.
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Jan 28, 2018 03:23
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E: ^^^ Way to steal my thunder. -100pts.  Chidi having some unmentioned anxiety or mental illness reads to me as, I dunno how best to define it, lazy? It feels like a cheap 'out' for his central gimmick as a character, and beyond that it's not as funny if he's got some underlying biological issue. There's enough depressing backstory stuff about environmental factors on this show. Chidi is funny because he's an indecisive dude who took a career path that is so ivory tower that everything he learned made him near-literally too smart to function in real human society. Another one of the interesting wrinkles with Chidi is that he's aware of all the little things that put people in the Bad Place, whereas the other three have natural human blindspots to things. He's corrected that the reason why he's there isn't in the Bad Place because he used almond milk, but everyone who used almond milk did get points deducted. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Jan 28, 2018 |
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Jan 28, 2018 03:37
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MisterBibs posted:Chidi having some unmentioned anxiety or mental illness reads to me as, I dunno how best to define it, lazy? It feels like a cheap 'out' for his central gimmick as a character, and beyond that it's not as funny if he's got some underlying biological issue. There's enough depressing backstory stuff about environmental factors on this show. Chidi "turning out" to have a mental illness wouldn't be some twist or surprise; it's already evident in the way that his stress over minutiae has devastated his social life, weighed on his general well-being, and hurt those around him. I feel like you're misunderstanding what mental illness is, and how it's defined and diagnosed. It's not as tangible as, say, cancer, where you get screened and the results tell you that you have it or you don't. Mental illness manifests itself in one's emotional state, thought process, and behaviours. In that regard, Chidi has demonstrably been deeply unwell his whole life.
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Jan 28, 2018 03:48
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Supercar Gautier posted:Chidi "turning out" to have a mental illness wouldn't be some twist or surprise; it's already evident in the way that his stress over minutiae has devastated his social life, weighed on his general well-being, and hurt those around him. You gotta be metatextual on this. Unless they say he's got a mental illness down the line, he doesn't now. Nothing is 'evident' until the creator puts it in the script. Right now, it's pareidolia to see him having mental illness. Stressing out over the trivialities of life because he's got a mental illness? Not funny. Stressing out over the trivialities of life because whatever natural indecisiveness the dude had was amplified by 3000% because of his inherently-contradictory career (promises The Truth, simply offers many possible, contradictory Truths)? Funny. I don't want to re-watch this episode down the line and go "Aw man, I was laughing at a dude with mental illness this whole time". I'm much more comfortable with laughing at the dude who should've gone into some other field, because his career in ethics made him unable to pick a goddamned hat for eighty minutes. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Jan 28, 2018 |
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Jan 28, 2018 03:54
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Am I the only person here who loves Maya Rudolph and her comedy and her body of work and thinks that "her showing up as the judge" was pants-making GBS threads-worthy? Okay, fine. Fine. I'm not mad. I'm not mad. I keep seeing stuff around the internet about how this episode was slow or not good or unfunny and I keep thinking about the kind of sad, thoughtful episodes of Community that used to come out that were extremely my jam in some way? I mean yes on a show that is nominally a comedy I want laughs, and stuff like episode 2 of this season with all the reboots was loving hilarious and awesome, but I also think comedies benefit at times from the occasional thinker and/or bummer? This episode structurally served to show us who in our group has started to move on and who hasn't, this reboot (I'd argue that a lot of these lessons were already learned in playthrough #1, but that's not where we are now), and actually I have a really hard time not seeing Tahani's test as not a breakthrough in a way. Yeah, she broke the absolute rules of the test, but she also did some necessary soul-searching and acted towards her parents in a way that I think was like, clearing some poo poo out of her brain and letting her move onward and upward, so I realize she Failed but...she also didn't? I mean Eleanor and Tahani were the ones who really thought through their situations/test conditions and came up with genuine answers. Chidi and Jason were just being themselves reflexively. I have absolutely no idea what is going to happen next and that is amazing and I love this show.
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Jan 28, 2018 03:54
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atomicgeek posted:Am I the only person here who loves Maya Rudolph and her comedy and her body of work and thinks that "her showing up as the judge" was pants-making GBS threads-worthy? I’m not a great Maya Rudolf fan, but she was good as the Judge and I wasn’t expecting some crazy guest star so I wasn’t disappointed. This was a good episode, but it felt like a set-up for the last half of season two/premise of season 3 My guess is that “Another Place” that comes up in the (next??) episode title is going to be a purgatory where they have to continue the work they started. Maybe with Shaun and a Good Place architect running them through their paces. Extra points if D’Arcy plays as Good Janet and Bad Janet in all eps going forwards
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Jan 28, 2018 04:08
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TwoPair posted:Also, I fail to see Chidi's indecisiveness as an anxiety disorder, because much of his anxiety stems from his ethics study. A lot of his indecisiveness and quirks stem from him overthinking all his decisions based on what Kant (or his other favorite philosophers) would say is right. The fact that Chidi's favorite philosopher is Kant makes him worthy of The Bad Place. Doubling down if he also thinks Descartes was good.
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Jan 28, 2018 05:40
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Gaz-L posted:If you want a more straight reading, even Eleanor's test isn't really fair, because she's told she doesn't need to take one. She's directly lied to. Yes, her distrusting nature means she figures out that that IS the test, but it's the same trick Chidi gets. Jen doesn't SAY picking the wrong hat damns them all, but she knows he'll infer that. It's not really the same because it wasn't about sussing out that the premise was a lie. It was about seeing if Eleanor, someone who got damned for her inability to empathize with others, would go back on the promise she just made to the others that either they're all going or non of them are going. She sussed out fake-Chidi specifically because she rejected the easy way out which was the test. WampaLord posted:They were already eternally damned, this is the criteria for appealing that decision. Well yeah. 
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Jan 28, 2018 07:49
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So, I just had a thought. Omega Janet (the most advanced Janet in the multiverse) apparently kept herself disguised as a Bad Janet. ...Who's in the Janet Marble she gave to Michael?
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Jan 28, 2018 07:52
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Edit: Hm, nvm
thexerox123 fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Jan 28, 2018 |
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Jan 28, 2018 08:00
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I figured she just produced a Janet marble. She’s a Janet, she can produce a marble with a face in it.
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Jan 28, 2018 08:00
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It's a Bad Janet. This way they can have one of each if they go Someplace Else.
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Jan 28, 2018 08:36
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:It's a Bad Janet. This way they can have one of each if they go Someplace Else. Michael already has a Bad Janet, the one he turned into a marble at the train station. Now he has one of each!
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Jan 28, 2018 09:02
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thexerox123 posted:Michael already has a Bad Janet, the one he turned into a marble at the train station. av/post combo ++
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Jan 28, 2018 15:40
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atomicgeek posted:Am I the only person here who loves Maya Rudolph and her comedy and her body of work and thinks that "her showing up as the judge" was pants-making GBS threads-worthy?
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Jan 28, 2018 15:43
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It's because she poo poo herself in Bridesmaids. That is the joke how do you miss that joke.
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Jan 28, 2018 16:02
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Mulva posted:It's because she poo poo herself in Bridesmaids.
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Jan 28, 2018 16:31
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My only nitpick is that Chidis flashbacks to his life should be in french and subtitled in English because he said that's his native tongue. Pointless nitpicks about a comedy tv show -5000 points
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Jan 28, 2018 16:49
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MisterBibs posted:I'm kinda getting to the point someone else mentioned, that Jason is just too dumb to be tried for his sins. It's not even "hey let's amplify Trait X on Character Y" at play, he's consistently been stupid. I'd disagree with this, simply because Jason in the first season was portrayed as aware that his lovely behavior was in some way bad, if only because he always did it at night or away from other people's view when he was alive. He'd have had no reason to do so if he didn't understand to at least some degree that it was wrong, even if he din't understand why it was wrong. That said, I'm not sure there's been anything yet to indicate that he understand said reasons why, so that might give them a ticket to go that route. Mulva posted:It's because she poo poo herself in Bridesmaids. Who, Jameela or Maya Rudolph? I haven't seen it and I'm not even sure how that was the joke in the episode.
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Jan 28, 2018 17:00
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Maya Rudolph. Jameela made a comment on twitter about the guest they got to play the Judge being pants-making GBS threads worthy, and a bunch of people were like "Well I mean she was funny but I don't know if I'd go that far" and it's like she's making a reference to the movie Maya Rudolph was in that had a relatively well known pants making GBS threads scene.
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Jan 28, 2018 17:15
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP9l4LP0WPI
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Jan 28, 2018 19:23
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I never saw the movie
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Jan 28, 2018 19:41
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I’ve never seen Bridesmaids, and that clip posted up there ensured I never would.
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Jan 28, 2018 19:51
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I've seen that movie. It was alright. Nothing special in either way.
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Jan 28, 2018 20:07
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Mulva posted:Maya Rudolph. Jameela made a comment on twitter about the guest they got to play the Judge being pants-making GBS threads worthy, and a bunch of people were like "Well I mean she was funny but I don't know if I'd go that far" and it's like she's making a reference to the movie Maya Rudolph was in that had a relatively well known pants making GBS threads scene. I don't think enough people saw bridesmaids for anything in it to be considered "relatively well known"
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Jan 28, 2018 20:32
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raditts posted:I don't think enough people saw bridesmaids for anything in it to be considered "relatively well known" It was the 14th highest grossing movie in 2011. The Help was #13 and everything else ahead of it was part of a franchise (Harry Potter, Transformers, Marvel, Fast and Furious, Twilight, Mission Impossible etc.)
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Jan 28, 2018 20:45
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Yeah, it made $288 million worldwide and has a 90% Tomato score. I don’t know where you people were seven years ago but it was a massive hit.
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Jan 28, 2018 21:20
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Not only did Bridesmaids make a shitload of money, it’s also been a widely referenced piece of pop culture. It’s like the go-to piece of evidence in the “are women-driven comedies profitable” discussions and has been credited for opening doors for some other women-led comedies. It’s okay to not get the reference but like,  that it’s not a well-known movie.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:41
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