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let's also not forget about gilgamesh as an independant servant
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Jan 28, 2018 21:59
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Juchero posted:avenger is actually inside the grail as of the 5th war They're inside the grail? ... Does the Grail have powers of some sort? Is it keeping Avenger alive and/or giving Avenger it's abilities? I mean, I assume the game is about finding and killing Avenger. Him being the Holy Grail complicates that notion.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:01
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Bifauxnen posted:if you're not gonna properly read all my flavour ramblings next time just don't read them at all please OK! I'm mostly skimming the flavor stuff - N20 says we can't use it to solve the game so it feels like a huge distraction to me. Juchero posted:feel like people aren't giving this the attention it should get Can you explain to me like I'm  what about it I should be paying attention to?Are you saying 50 rolled scum Berserker and decided to openly roleplay that exact thing in thread?
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Jan 28, 2018 22:03
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its really not that complicated, the story is supposed to just be about the battle royale for the Holy Grail, but the big twist is that the Grail is evil and the whole game is rigged in Mafia the town = good guys and scum = bad guys (usually) So here... town = people who might've been fighting each other in the story but arent necessarily evil compared to the BIG BAD EVIL scum = BIG BAD EVIL, or at least that's my best guess of how to reconcile the flavor. But now Rex is getting me worried like it could be a cult game but I sure hope not.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:05
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KhediveRex posted:I think at this point Bread has basically confirmed he's in a masonry with "Ilya". I think this is an interesting observation given that apparently Bread is saying that he is not in fact in any sort of masonry. Can you walk me through your thought process here?
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Jan 28, 2018 22:06
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Murmur Twin posted:OK! maybe not scum, because berserker/ilya aren't really the big bads(if going by bifaux theory) but they're potentially dangerous to town, maybe 3p(?) also avenger isn't really "active" outside of one specific story so i don't even know if they are in fact in the game as a role
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Jan 28, 2018 22:09
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Monathin posted:I think this is an interesting observation given that apparently Bread is saying that he is not in fact in any sort of masonry. Can you walk me through your thought process here? it would actually make sense that berserker and ilya can't talk because berserker is a big ol dummy who can't communicate outside of angry growls and grunts
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Jan 28, 2018 22:10
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Juchero posted:it would actually make sense that berserker and ilya can't talk because berserker is a big ol dummy who can't communicate outside of angry growls and grunts Not to get into further setup spec, but I feel the same way, it makes sense to me, and paints fiddy's posts in the thread in a different light, one I'm more comfortable with. But I'm asking Rex why he thought that Bread had confirmed anything vis a vis a masonry.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:15
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I only bring up Avenger cause its the best way imo to create a scenario true to the story while not making things flavor solvable. If it's not Avenger, then there's just someone else behind the fakeclaims, or truly random alignments where people you wouldnt expect can still be scum. Just play Mafia, I only brought it up cause it sounded like people might be trying to flavor solve. I am getting increasingly worried though about what Rex's deal is. Rex, since you asked I will tell you more about Avenger, but in my next post so people can skip the flavor junk.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:20
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Juchero posted:it would actually make sense that berserker and ilya can't talk because berserker is a big ol dummy who can't communicate outside of angry growls and grunts NO... DUMMY... THINKING... JUST... HARD...
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Jan 28, 2018 22:22
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Monathin posted:I think this is an interesting observation given that apparently Bread is saying that he is not in fact in any sort of masonry. Can you walk me through your thought process here? I wrote my response to Bif before I read Bread break character and ask if the rest of us were in Masonries. So, I was working with outdated information. On the other hand you can see where I would draw that conclusion. He's called himself Berserker once or twice, claimed his purpose is to protect a little girl, a little girl gets named in the context of being Berserker's Master and, shortly thereafter, bread quotes her name and says... 50 pounds of bread posted:LITTLE GIRL... I think I was in the right assuming they spoke to each other. I don't assume so anymore. However, if they're not in a masonry, it worth noting that Ilya is still a huge part of Breads character (wanting to protect her and growling is 70 percent of Breads posts so far.) So, how does Bread know Ilya? Maybe he's a fan of the series and just knows berserker and Ilya are a thing? Maybe it was in his role PM that he needed to defend Ilya? Someway or another, I would assume that Ilya is in this game. And that Berserker is in some way associated. Them not being in Masonries together is very curious.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:25
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Alright, now that I got you to walk me through, tell me something else who do you think is scum/you're willing to vote for with end of day fast approaching. Give me some arguments.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:26
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Actually, let's give that a little more punch. ##vote Rex
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Jan 28, 2018 22:27
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LITTLE... GIRL... MY... CHARGE... PROTECT... WITH... LIFE...
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Jan 28, 2018 22:29
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Flavor junk below, feel free to skip it: (disclaimer: my knowledge of this franchise's wider mythos is very spotty so apologies to any nerds out there who know the details way better than me.) Avenger, aka Angra Mainyu, is a really weird and messed-up servant. Angra Mainyu is supposed to be from some Zoroastrian myth and I don't know how much of this is based on those actual myths and how much was made up from whole cloth for the anime. But the idea is, this dude was supposed to be the ultimate hero... but the reason he was the ultimate hero was because he became a sacrificial scapegoat to take on all the evils of the world upon himself. So in one of the earlier grail wars, some magus thinks theyre gonna wallhax the whole tournament by summoning this dude. But instead, summoning this servant through the grail taints the whole thing with its ultimate evil. So the grail is evil now and can only bring horrible destruction and poo poo. In one of the routes of the game, Avenger no longer remains hidden inside the Grail. The Matous make some kind of vessel for it, so Avenger takes a more active role in the war, and corrupts other servants into its service.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:29
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Monathin posted:Alright, now that I got you to walk me through, tell me something else I think that being voted for on the first day is an issue of popularity more than anything. To be frank. From my perspective you all are accusing each other of being serial killers because of grammatical differences. Theres no evidence to work with yet, except trying to judge if players are behaving differently from other games you've played with them. I don't know any of you. Perhaps that puts me at a disadvantage but, I don't put stock in any of the cases at the moment. No one has died. Theres no evidence. And I can't make bricks without clay. If pressed I'd say Quid does strike me as slightly off. On the other hand he's also the one who has been interrogated and corrected the most agressively, and when you put someone on tilt you can't be surprised when they're responses get a little hectic. He hasn't done anything to merit suspicions. I just think he's a touch suspicious. I'll say I feel the same way about Chic. For a slightly different reason. It's the same reason I suspected Bif at first. People get more aggressive when they have something to hide. When you have nothing to hide it's easy to shrug it off. When you want to argue for two forum pages about it, it's a sign it means something to you. But yeah, none of that is a fine explanation for killing people who will probably end up being town. I'm gonna vote me. I'll know then at least that my vote is meaningless for this turn.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:39
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ok how much time is left? About 7 hours? I'm still happy voting Quid. He doesn't seem to be poking at everybody and reacting to everything the way he would as town. Just that weird aborted vote on Juch he backed off on, after people all started feeling bad for Juch getting misdunked so much. Then pushing on me over that convoluted mess- oh, and he also threw in that weird objection when I was annoyed at Chic. It feels more like he's just looking for things to criticise about me instead of hashing things out naturally. I would also vote Rex, not feeling the earlier Monathin case as much now that he's around and posting. Would also vote 50, but I would be kind of sad to lose his gimmick. 
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Jan 28, 2018 22:42
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Juchero posted:it would actually make sense that berserker and ilya can't talk because berserker is a big ol dummy who can't communicate outside of angry growls and grunts So are you suggesting that it's the NORM for Servant/Master pairs to be in a masonry this game? This is very troubling... such Role Madness indeed! Not to try and rolefish here, but didn't Tired Moritz early on say that he was "best girl?" Does that mean Tired Moritz and 50 pounds of bread might be in a mason-buddy-alliance?
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Jan 28, 2018 22:43
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eep thats right, Prince needs to give some more actual reads instead of just flavor stuff too. But please be kind to him, he is a mafia noob and I really put him through the wringer last game for thinking his earnest townieness couldnt possibly be real
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Jan 28, 2018 22:45
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KhediveRex posted:From my perspective you all are accusing each other of being serial killers because of grammatical differences. Theres no evidence to work with yet, except trying to judge if players are behaving differently from other games you've played with them. The thing of it is that, generally, Day 1 is the easiest time for scum to try and fly under the radar for the very same reasons you posted. Nling, while -possible- option, effectively gives the scum a free kill, which is something people will generally avoid doing D1. You can say "I can't make bricks without clay" all you want, but it's not about meta arguments - or at least, I don't consider meta arguments any more valuable than regular arguments. I'm in a similar boat in that I've played maybe two games with some of these people, max. This is Space's second game, as I recall. You're not the only newbie here. But you have to try and poke at inconsistencies and weird things to get people to try and explain it, because there's a genuine difference between an honest mistake when pressured and a scumslip That's where the game lies. For instance, you're doing something that people would call 'hedging' - which is that you're saying "well, Quid seems slightly off but that could just be pressure, so I don't know", it doesn't actually put any suspicions down, and you didn't say why Quid was suspicious. Interactions with other people in the thread? Gut read? You can say if it's a gut read you're feeling, but you have to put something out there, which you demonstrably aren't. That's why I'm feeling suspicious. Call the kettle black if you want.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:51
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Juchero posted:y'know i know we're not supposed to make flavor arguments I think Juchero's suspicion on 50 was faked. He was trying to imply that Berserker is anti-town while ignoring the fact that the last thing a scum berserker would do is just claim it and RP it. When pressed on it he admits that probably isn't scummy but that it sounds like "an anti-town 3P". I don't buy this as a town thought process. Hunting specifically for 3P is scum 101. ##vote Juchero
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Jan 28, 2018 22:51
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Bifauxnen posted:Prince needs to give some more actual reads instead of just flavor stuff too. Sorry I've been engrossing myself in the flavor of it all recently, much like B-minus1 has been. My next post will have actual reads on people, trying to ignore setup spec (the bane of my existence).
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Jan 28, 2018 22:52
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KhediveRex posted:I think that being voted for on the first day is an issue of popularity more than anything. To be frank. this is probably straying into Mafia Mom territory but you don't really have to look if someone's being off from their normal self w/r/t posting in other threads, you just have to ask yourself "does this feel genuine" and look for inconsistencies within their posting in the thread itself if they've been inconsistent within the thread or the answer to the genuine question is no, vote them and pursue a case.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:53
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Prince of Space posted:So are you suggesting that it's the NORM for Servant/Master pairs to be in a masonry this game? This is very troubling... such Role Madness indeed! This, unfortunately, doesn't make sense to me mathematically Prince - if Bread is both 1) actually Berserker and 2) not in a masonry (two things I am currently willing to take on faith on D1), then that would make masonries uneven. I legitimately think focusing on that aspect isn't gonna get anyone any closer to solving the setup, and it's a bad lead. Like Bif said though - who do you got thinking as suspect? We weren't on the same side in Shine but I was pretty impressed with your posting there, gimme something.
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Jan 28, 2018 22:55
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still meaning to take a look at quid btw but it's my mom's birthday and i'm taking her out to dinner tonight so it may be a hot minute before i get to that read i will be around for deadline though
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Jan 28, 2018 22:57
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Murmur Twin posted:I think Juchero's suspicion on 50 was faked. He was trying to imply that Berserker is anti-town while ignoring the fact that the last thing a scum berserker would do is just claim it and RP it. When pressed on it he admits that probably isn't scummy but that it sounds like "an anti-town 3P". maybe if i ever suggested we vote for 50, this would be a good argument but honestly i just think it's a bizarre bit of roleplay and maybe i'm letting flavor sway my intuition this vote bugs me though
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Jan 28, 2018 22:58
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So walk me through this... 1 in 14 people in this game is the Killer. We have the option to attempt to eliminate him in Day 1. If we fail and land on one of the other 13 people, then we go into Day 2 having lost two town members instead of one. If we succeed and vote out the killer Day 1 ... the game ends? Right? Before anything could happen? ... Not much of a game ... So, that's how I'm interpreting this. I don't see how not lynching one of our own day 1 gives the scum a "free kill". Or why lynching Day 1 would be the obvious strategy in this situation.
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Jan 28, 2018 23:05
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Juchero posted:maybe if i ever suggested we vote for 50, this would be a good argument I was assuming that 50 was your strongest read since he's the person whose alignment you've primarily talked about? I will acknowledge that in the absence of that suspicion you have no scum calls and no votes outside of an early jokephase vote on Quid.
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Jan 28, 2018 23:07
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Rex, how much do you know about quantum physics?
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Jan 28, 2018 23:08
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KhediveRex posted:So walk me through this... Never no lynch.
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Jan 28, 2018 23:09
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KhediveRex posted:So walk me through this... hello friend this is mafia not a mafia-like, there will be a team of players that are "scum" aka the bad guys, and we need to off all of them before we win
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Jan 28, 2018 23:10
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KhediveRex posted:So walk me through this... i dont understand this post at all?
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Jan 28, 2018 23:12
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KhediveRex posted:So walk me through this... Alright, I'll give you this one real quick for free, even though I really probably shouldn't: A handy part of setup spec you should actually take with you: there's never just 'one' scum, or very rarely. I understand that Death Note Mafia had one killer? But that's an exception. Generally scum will be somewhere around ~20% of the players needed for a game. So for a 14-person game, there could be anywhere from 2-3 'scum', not counting potential 3rd party roles with their own victory conditions, such as Serial Killer, etc. We have to successfully catch multiple killers, who are often in communication with each other about how to influence the thread. That's why there's an effort to hunt, even on Day 1.
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Jan 28, 2018 23:13
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i'm actually feeling like rex is town now because if they were scum they surely would've been told how the game works by their buddies, yeah? ##unvote
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Jan 28, 2018 23:15
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KhediveRex posted:So walk me through this... Every kill provides town with more information to analyze. Having two people to go back analyze (lynch and NK) is way way better for our D2 odds than only having one. Chic Trombone posted:hello friend this is mafia not a mafia-like, there will be a team of players that are "scum" aka the bad guys, and we need to off all of them before we win Also this. Death Note was more of an exception than a rule in terms of Mafia mechanics.
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Jan 28, 2018 23:16
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Chic Trombone posted:i'm actually feeling like rex is town now because if they were scum they surely would've been told how the game works by their buddies, yeah? While I'm loathe to agree because I still think Rex is shady, not knowing there are multiple members of the scumteam, while being scum, would be a hard gambit to pull off, imho. So yeah I'll also ##unvote, need to reconsider some things.
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Jan 28, 2018 23:18
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Monathin posted:While I'm loathe to agree because I still think Rex is shady, not knowing there are multiple members of the scumteam, while being scum, would be a hard gambit to pull off, imho. yeah I gotta agree, though his fixation on wanting to know more about Avenger and stuff still gives me the heebie-jeebies a little.
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Jan 28, 2018 23:21
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Murmur Twin posted:I was assuming that 50 was your strongest read since he's the person whose alignment you've primarily talked about? I will acknowledge that in the absence of that suspicion you have no scum calls and no votes outside of an early jokephase vote on Quid. nah I don't think they're scum but you're right that I don't have any strong reads yet, i am a bit out of practice and this day 1 hasn't given me much to chew on
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Jan 28, 2018 23:23
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Bifauxnen posted:yeah I gotta agree, though his fixation on wanting to know more about Avenger and stuff still gives me the heebie-jeebies a little.  I wouldn't rule out Rex as a 3p, their posting still doesn't look good so far, but after that I'd be hard pressed to see Rex as scum until something damning came to light.
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Jan 28, 2018 23:27
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Monathin posted:While I'm loathe to agree because I still think Rex is shady, not knowing there are multiple members of the scumteam, while being scum, would be a hard gambit to pull off, imho. ive never played a game with rex before, and admit that his earlier posts weren't pinging me in the way that they were to some people, but do you really think it would be that hard of a gambit to pull off? playing the dumb townie aka "hey guys i dont know how to play mafia maybe theres just one killer and thats it lets try to find them" seems like a really easy way to ensure survival imo
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Jan 28, 2018 23:27
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