Fate/stay Night Mafia

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > The Game Room > Fate/stay Night Mafia

Quidthulhu: Dec 17, 2003; Stand down, men! It's only smooching!

Repeating why Bif's case on me is bad because it got lost in deep flavor arguments (which she created, mind you)

Bif's initial case on me has to do with me overclarifying myself, she pushes this angle MULTIPLE times in her casework:

Bifauxnen posted:

well if that's true, it sure needed clarification, cause saying "you don't like the case" on something sounds rather strange when you open with something like "This is an awful loving vote on me."

But that's funny that you're clarifying further now to say you don't like your original case either! That was the very thing I found hard to believe from you at first. And you seemed to be clarifying that what you "didn't like" was Prince's far inferior case on Juch, based on haikus:

People can change their minds and have second thoughts, but I don't see why that would make your original reaction any less valid for you to have had at the time. So going from "This is an awful loving vote" to "I don't like the case" rang false to me.

But I've already pointed out how this was all in response to her asking me to explain myself:

Bifauxnen posted:

Man, that sure is a 180, did the haiku change your mind that much?

Quidthulhu posted:

Did you purposefully leave out the quote that connects everything together, Bif?

Bifauxnen posted:

I forgot it was there, since I thought it was odd to go from the way you sounded when you voted, to "not liking the case". If you're just having second thoughts and feeling less sure of yourself in voting Juch, okay, that's one thing. But that doesn't seem to line up with you saying you don't like the case at all. Back when the case was first made you had those strong statements on why you thought Juch deserved your vote at that time.

Quidthulhu posted:

I originally voted Juchero because I thought his vote on me was kinda careless and pretty bad. Then I remembered he's real awkward in jokephase and decided it was more likely that he just wasn't thinking about it vs. deliberately trying to sneak a vote in on a turbo candidate or something.

Subsequently, I do not like the "Juchero's haiku insistence was awkward in jokephase" case for the same reason above.

Me not liking that case has no correlation to me unvoting because I changed my mind about the case that I, myself, created initially. They aren't the same case, man.

Bifauxnen posted:

well that isnt very clear when all you say is you just dont like "the case"

Quidthulhu posted:

That is probably true!

That's the entire exchange, in order and in conext. Note how bif seems to be leaving herself open to back off on me at the end of this exchange, writing it off as me being unclear. That's what I thought she was going to do.

But she actually drops me completely for a while, to go after Chic and then drop a "pressure" vote on Rex. It's not until I chime in and say I don't like her play that she focuses on me:

Quidthulhu posted:

This looks like an argument a person playing their third or fourth mafia game would make and it makes me wonder why Bif is pushing it

Bifauxnen posted:

cause I was already looking at Chic as a lurker anyway, so seeing her show up to still post hardly anything except a pre-emptive "boy it would sure be dumb to vote for lukers on D1 though hey" really rubbed me the wrong way. Throwing a vote down and having her go "HOW DARE YOU gently caress YOU" sure didn't help any haha

Quidthulhu posted:

I also don't like this, why you voting for the self voting dude?

Bifauxnen posted:

cause maybe if we pressure him he will try and actually play or something instead of just making enigmatic statements about who will be his chess friend

These are reasonable responses to my questions. Then she turns on me:

Bifauxnen posted:

lol true that, for a sec though it sounded like Quid was implying he was in on Rex's flavor shenanigans too? It'd be interesting if him and Rex and Gulag are all grouped up together and Gulag feels so strongly that Rex is town but Quid should die! But Quid might've just been saying some random poo poo.

I find it's more often a scum tell when he argues for something really stupid

##vote Quid

it'd be extra funny if him and Chic are scum together and he's going for a real indirect defense, here's hopin

A. Rolefish about why I would know Rex's flavor
B. Terrible reason to vote me that has nothing to do with "overexplaining myself." She votes me here PURELY for meta reasons.

Then she has to evolve her case because she knows it's bad, so we get the following "reasons" that were inherent in her casework all along:

Quidthulhu posted:

What's the stupid thing I am arguing, exactly?

Bifauxnen posted:

that me and Chic are just faking an argument, for one.

I also was not too impressed by your sly shift from "I like neither the Juchero or Mona cases" to "well obviously when I said 'the cases' I just meant one particular person's case on Juchero, who is a totally different person from who was casing Monathin, and I was not speaking in a general way at all, hrm hrm hrm what could you be up to, trying to misrepresent me when Im being all vague, Bif!"

This is an attempt to give justification to what was a bad meta vote. Town don't need to justify their gut reads, and this is a weak connection in so she can remain "consistent."

To the point that she even acknowledges she might be hard to follow, "so let me clearly explain myself so everyone gets why Quid is bad"

Bifauxnen posted:

ok so looking back, this must be a gigantic mess of semantic arguments for anyone else to try and follow. I'm going to try and recap things one more time to be more clear.

Quid, this is what I'm confused about rn: you say you made that post to clarify, but I don't see what it even is you needed to clarify. My original complaint was how you went from making such a strong case to saying you didn't like it. And now you're "clarifying" that... no, you didn't mean something totally different about criticizing someone else's case? It was true that you really don't like your own case after all? You actually don't need to correct me on that?

You seem to have shifted gears now, but let's try and be kind and assume that you meant this all along, to saying that your main thing you wanted to clear up is that I missed HOW you came to change your mind on Juch. But that wasn't what pinged me in the first place. What pinged me was you saying you "didn't like the case", which would include your OWN case on Juch, when you had made it so forcefully before. Though you came to have second thoughts about it, you've ostensibly made it for pure meta reasons. People told you that Juch gets mislunched a lot, so you started to doubt yourself and thought "hm, what if I'm just wrong"? It wasn't from anyone pointing out a hole in your actual case, though. Do you no longer think Juch made an awful loving vote? Do you no longer think that was right of you to have had that reaction at the time?

So even if you point that out... it still seems strange to me to say you "don't like the case". And the way you've tried to explain things to me still seems to not flow very naturally.

Maybe it's just you being all flustered and overdoing it with trying to explain things or something. But that's why I've reacted to you the way I have.

Basically any time I bring up valid reasons as to why Bif is fake casing me her response is to:

-Ignore it
-Distract from it
-Say "shut up, scum"

This is not town behavior. Town would show their work. She is not showing her work. She is evolving a read in real time, and it was a bad one to start.

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Quidthulhu: Dec 17, 2003; Stand down, men! It's only smooching!