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  • Locked thread
Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Quidthulhu posted:

And why did you like Rex for scum, at this point? His posts on the page you say this feel very town to me, with the exception of not being sure where he got Ilya from & how he's subsequently confused on flavor, but you don't mention any of that, so I don't know why you don't like Rex. You don't say.

I was uneasy about Rex cause all his constant talk about flavour stuff instead of actual casing made me nervous. But his big "only 1 scum" post does seem more like he's just town who was very misled by his first game being Death Note. Others pointing out just how ridiculous this over-the-top deception would be for a newbie helped me to accept this and move on from suspecting Rex for now.

Quidthulhu posted:

Bif, in the several hours and pages of posts since you posted this....is your opinion on me REALLY still the same? Can you show evidence, with quotes, as examples of my doing what you say I am doing here?

Yes my opinion on you is still the same. I do not find your previous behaviour any less scummy. I believe you just abandoned ship on trying to get me lunched and are changing strategies now to get people to back down from the noisy posters, which includes you, as your new way to save yourself. I have already pointed out how your complaints about me engaging too little AND too much are inconsistent. I also laughed at your suggestion that I wasn't scumhunting. I'm not going to make everyone's eyes glaze over by requoting all those posts you made which were already also full of quotes. People were there, they saw it, they can make up their own minds.

Quidthulhu posted:

This is not a bad case. The 3P jump is a bit weird in a game where we're talking about duos, especially since Bif floated the idea of pairs with their own win conditions - although again, my role PM just speaks about winning when threats are eliminated, so, jumping to 3ps and duo win conditions all around is strange.

I most certainly did not float this idea. I was explaining the story of the flavour for this game, which is utterly different from a standard game of Mafia. And explaining how this flavour could be made to fit a standard game of mafia.

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Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!

You did float that idea, though? That's the entirety of Tobbs case on you, which you already acknowledged comes from a town mindset on Tobbs part. Why does he get a pass for this where you put him in the "totally town" category and it becomes continued proof that I am scum?

I don't think you're town any more, Bif. I think Tobbs fooled you real good and you're blind to him, now, and are also blind to how wrong you are about me because he's been doing a good job of whipping you into a frenzy. I think you should take a step back and look at how much he is doing the EXACT same thing you are calling me out for (and flailing MORE than I am on the defensive, from my perspective), and how much you are giving him a pass on lovely behavior.

Look at some of my pointed questions to Tobbs and ask yourself: has he responded to them adequately? YOU finally are. Is HE doing the same?

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!

Quidthulhu posted:

You did float that idea, though? That's the entirety of Tobbs case on you, which you already acknowledged comes from a town mindset on Tobbs part. Why does he get a pass for this where you put him in the "totally town" category and it becomes continued proof that I am scum?

I don't think you're town any more, Bif. I think Tobbs fooled you real good and you're blind to him, now, and are also blind to how wrong you are about me because he's been doing a good job of whipping you into a frenzy. I think you should take a step back and look at how much he is doing the EXACT same thing you are calling me out for (and flailing MORE than I am on the defensive, from my perspective), and how much you are giving him a pass on lovely behavior.

Look at some of my pointed questions to Tobbs and ask yourself: has he responded to them adequately? YOU finally are. Is HE doing the same?

Mafia edit: I dont' think you're SCUM anymore. Talking about too many alignments :v:

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before
ok, im back and willbe here until deadline. holy poo poo this thread blew up

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Quidthulhu posted:

You did float that idea, though? That's the entirety of Tobbs case on you, which you already acknowledged comes from a town mindset on Tobbs part. Why does he get a pass for this where you put him in the "totally town" category and it becomes continued proof that I am scum?

No, Tobbs THOUGHT I was floating the "pairs out for themselves" idea when I was literally just describing the story of the anime.

When I revealed I was in an unconfirmed mason pair, Tobbs finally saw that as a way I could've possibly written that post from a townie perspective. It should not have been necessary. He should've just realized I was talking about the drat anime and not the roles in this game. But it got him to stop and reflect for long enough to no longer see it as a scumslip.

He is not totally town, I just find him much more likely town at this point. And it's got nothing to do with you being scum? I think you're scum cause of all your weird responses and mega-reaching on me ever since I prodded you about the Juch vote. This tussle with Tobbs has no relation to my thoughts about you in any way.

You are constantly making weird-rear end points and arguing things that don't seem to make sense Quid, which I find to be a scum tell with you.

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before

Murmur Twin posted:

Also full disclosure: I'm planning on going to bed within the next half-hour or so.


Quote me his strongest scum read.

gotta admit that you're right, he doesn't appear to have one.

Juchero
Feb 15, 2008


Wedge Regret
won't be around for deadline, D&D night


still have no idea who is scum

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!

Bifauxnen posted:

No, Tobbs THOUGHT I was floating the "pairs out for themselves" idea when I was literally just describing the story of the anime.

When I revealed I was in an unconfirmed mason pair, Tobbs finally saw that as a way I could've possibly written that post from a townie perspective. It should not have been necessary. He should've just realized I was talking about the drat anime and not the roles in this game. But it got him to stop and reflect for long enough to no longer see it as a scumslip.

He is not totally town, I just find him much more likely town at this point. And it's got nothing to do with you being scum? I think you're scum cause of all your weird responses and mega-reaching on me ever since I prodded you about the Juch vote. This tussle with Tobbs has no relation to my thoughts about you in any way.

You are constantly making weird-rear end points and arguing things that don't seem to make sense Quid, which I find to be a scum tell with you.

You don't think any of my points on Tobbs are valid? Have you read them?

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!

Juchero posted:

won't be around for deadline, D&D night


still have no idea who is scum

So you are saying you are just going to not contribute at all today?

Juchero
Feb 15, 2008


Wedge Regret

Quidthulhu posted:

So you are saying you are just going to not contribute at all today?

i genuinely haven't had much time today

most of my posts are from my phone, carefully typed between long periods of chasing a 2 year old around

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Quidthulhu posted:

You don't think any of my points on Tobbs are valid? Have you read them?

well gee Quid, sometimes it's hard to read everything when you spam the hell out of the thread, this is why I get so grumpy with you for always telling me I should post more and more and more whenever I'm disagreeing with you, even though I already post more than loving everybody!

Anyway you wanted my Lumpenlist so here, just got it done:

Most Scummy:
Quid - don't think I need to keep running this into the ground

MurmurTwin - Doesn't seem to have enough good cases for her. Picking on just Juchero now when we've had so much else to look at seems a bit weak. And if Quid turns out to be scum, her "townie slapfight" idea is obviously self-serving.

Also Scummy:
Sal - Lurking, but not getting called out as much as the others. Not showing up enough to show off his usual hyper-earnest misunderstood towniness.

Undecided - could be scummy but not so sure yet:
Juchero - His defeatist posting after a few votes on him could be resigned town, or a ploy to get sympathy as scum. But I'm not feeling the case on him nearly as much right now. MT's attempt to reopen the case on him didn't seem too compelling, in particular. But he does need to post more reads, that's for sure.

50 lbs - flavour posting can obviously be a way to avoid content, and maybe he's trying to establish a strong fakeclaim. But is it too obvious?

Tired - Not posting too much, but that's hardly a smoking gun with him.

Monathin - Participating more now, but haven't got him totally in the townie basket yet

Prince - Still a mafia newb, his big list of reads on everyone seemed like an ok effort, but he's also leaning heavily on flavour posting a lot of the time. Big question mark on him so far.

Slight town leanings, but could be revoked at any time:
Chic - was real defensive at first, but then continued on with making other points instead so yeah, I could see her just being extra grumpy in that one moment

Bminus - finally seems to be weighing in on things EVEN THOUGH IT'S STILL D1, HOW TOWNIE IS THAT haha, glad I won't have to shoot you mate

Stronger town leanings:
KhediveRex - Yeah those posts would be pretty nuts for scum to make

Tobbs - His casing me was annoying but felt more like it came from genuine confusion, with an honest retraction

Gulag - I do wish he'd show up more right now actually... but everything up till now has sounded mega town from him imo

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before

Quidthulhu posted:

Can you explain these reads to me, B-? You mention basically no one up until this point except "lol at anyone who thought Quid was in danger of being dunked" and suddenly you have a list with several town reads and a scum read on me (popular discussion point at the time) and TM (was he being talked about at all?)
What's the deal here? Why these folks with these reads?

i know i've said this a few times, but most of the reads in that post are based on my interpretation of flavor, or at least what I perceived as flavor breadcrumbing by my townreads. And then bif later confirmed what I had been thinking by saying that she was in a masonry, hence the strong town read. Obviously this doesn’t confirm her as town but my gut feeling is that bif and I share similar thoughts when it comes to flavor. Shocking, I know.
I have a scumread on TM because I suppose partially because he seemed eager to vote to lynch me and not understanding why I had a townread on 50.
Regarding my scumread of you, something seemed off about your early posts, you’ve been incredibly defensive from the start. I guess I’m just comparing your play in this game to the one we just finished, where you were much more aggressive in your cases against people, instead of simply defending yourself whenever someone hurls suspicion your way. With that said, you’ve posted like 30 times since I last checked the thread, and I will definitely take a look at your case against Tobbs right now.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


anyway, in closing, if y'all really want to avoid lunching one of me, Quid, MT and Tobbs today I highly recommend Sal

Lux Anima
Apr 17, 2016


Dinosaur Gum

Quidthulhu posted:

You don't think any of my points on Tobbs are valid? Have you read them?

Whatever happened to the time when you thought Tobbs Gnawed was being a sincere lil cutie?

Quidthulhu posted:

See Bif, look at this sincere lil cutie :3:

Quidthulhu, admit it, you're only suspicious of Tobbs Gnawed because he's siding with Bifauxnen and GulagDolls in voting for you.

If (for some silly reason) I was only looking at Quidthulhu, Bifauxnen, Tobbs Gnawed, and Murmur Twin, I would say that of those four, Tobbs Gnawed is the most suspect due to all his frequent vote changes onto the vote leaders.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

?????????
?

Prince of Space posted:

Quidthulhu, admit it, you're only suspicious of Tobbs Gnawed because he's siding with Bifauxnen and GulagDolls in voting for you.

If (for some silly reason) I was only looking at Quidthulhu, Bifauxnen, Tobbs Gnawed, and Murmur Twin, I would say that of those four, Tobbs Gnawed is the most suspect due to all his frequent vote changes onto the vote leaders.

Prince, walk me through the logic on this one. You're calling out Quid on thinking Tobbs is suspect while... agreeing with some of his arguments?

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011

i'm starting to believe quid may be town, but unfortunately, am highly allergic to his postings, so I won't mind voting him anyway. could go for sal.

Lux Anima
Apr 17, 2016


Dinosaur Gum

Monathin posted:

Prince, walk me through the logic on this one. You're calling out Quid on thinking Tobbs is suspect while... agreeing with some of his arguments?

Partially, yes. I think Tobbs is the most suspect of those four people-

Prince of Space posted:

If (for some silly reason) I was only looking at those four....

But I'm not about to vote for our four more avid participants right now, so I'll put some a bit of pressure where I feel pressure is due.

##vote SaltheBard

It's near the end of day 1. Do you have any thoughts you'd like to share, SaltheBard?

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005

I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!

Fallen Rib

Bifauxnen posted:

Also Scummy:
Sal - Lurking, but not getting called out as much as the others. Not showing up enough to show off his usual hyper-earnest misunderstood towniness.

I learned alot from Shine V. Also I worked this weekend and I'm watching wrestling with some friends. I'll do some casing when I get home.

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011

theres no time you fucker,. youve wrestled your way to an early grave.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005

I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!

Fallen Rib
We have 3 hours right?

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


ok now that things have calmed down a tad, I'm going back to reread Quid's posts and see if I missed anything compelling he said about Tobbs. Instead, I found this:

Quidthulhu posted:

Tobbs, you backed off on Bif and then immediately went back to me, presumably based on this case you made earlier, since it's your read:

...

Second point: I don't even really understand this paragraph. Why would I be unvoting Juchero, period, as scum in this situation? Are you buying Bif's narrative of us being scum buddies?

Since when did I ever have a narrative of Quid and Juch being scum buddies? I thought if Quid was scum he was framing up poor town Juch then backing off.

Quid seems to be presenting a weird view of Tobbs the same way he was overreaching on me. He seems to take Tobbs changing his mind after interrogating me as some kind of proof that he's buddying up, and using it as a bludgeon to make Tobbs give Quid the same "oh wait I guess I was wrong, you're totally town" treatment or else it's not fair! :colbert:

If Quid flips town, I will definitely rethink Tobbs. But right now he sounds waaaay more genuine than Quid imo.

Like Quid kept on trying to frame my case on him as him "overclarifying" himself, but that's really not quite right. I first poked Quid cause I was surprised when he said he didn't like the case on Juch, after making that case himself so forcefully. Quid then sounded like he was trying to make a distinction between his case and other people's cases. But then he came back to claim that no, he did in fact also not like his own case anymore. So... that still leaves me with my same original complaint, unaddressed. Quid made such a strong case of "This is an awful loving vote on me", which was a great and valid reaction to have at the time, then turned around to say he "doesn't like the case" at all, it didn't feel genuine to me. It felt like Quid just wanted to back down off his scum bandwagon, and got all mad that I didn't take his "hmm wait, Juch often gets mislunched though" hedge post as perfect proof that his unvote must be genuine.

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before

Quidthulhu posted:

Tobbs quoted literally every statement he made about Bif except the incriminating "it's going to be hard to convince me she's scum." Why would he have left that out when I specifically mentioned it multiple times, come on.
That was a very strange omission by tobbs for sure. Really looks like tobbs is trying to walk back what appeared to be his strongest read. Definitely not a good look at all. However, I am slightly conflicted because I actually agree with Tobbs about bif appearing town. I’m not sure I’ve ever played a game where she was scum, but everything I’ve seen from her screams typical bif town. Not to mention, I don’t see why scum would out themselves as being part of a masonry, especially this early in the game. Trying not to tunnel too hard, but I really don’t see where quid is coming from with his case against bif, and have mixed feelings on tobbs.
Something feels off about MMT’s posts. Really only seems to be pushing two talking points, quid/bif is a slapfight, and juchero is scum simply for suggesting that 50 could be 3p. I guess it just seems strange for her to shoot down what appeared to me to be legitimate discussion. Actually, juchero's posts, along with bif's mason claim have me questioning my initial townread of 50. I think I'm getting too caught up in trying to craft my reads based on flavor alone.
Also weird that sal shows up to post after being called out and voted. Sal, who are your strongest scumreads?

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!

See I thought you had initially in your Juchero/ Quid connection cause I thought you had said that I was jumping off to protect movement on to him, but saw that instead you thought it was me jumping in a town member. I mostly wanted to see if you remembered that :v: I think Bif’s being consistent enough with her logic that she’s probably town, but way wrong.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!

I like 50. Would hug the big silent dude.

Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)
God, its day 1 and we already have 17 pages.

would vote Sal. Not liking this bif/quid slapfight. Maybe they're scum and they're trying to flood us with posts?

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy
Going to watch blade runner but should be around for deadline.

Still don't at all like that Quid's only pushing players voting for him (with terrible contrived cases built on lies and misrepresentation).

I think he's the best lynch for today, but willing to switch near deadline to avoid a no-lynch.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005

I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!

Fallen Rib

b-minus1 posted:

Also weird that sal shows up to post after being called out and voted. Sal, who are your strongest scumreads?

Phone posting from friends house. Just wanted to see what was going on in the thread.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Quidthulhu posted:

See I thought you had initially in your Juchero/ Quid connection cause I thought you had said that I was jumping off to protect movement on to him, but saw that instead you thought it was me jumping in a town member. I mostly wanted to see if you remembered that :v: I think Bif’s being consistent enough with her logic that she’s probably town, but way wrong.

oh like that one weird comment I only just now happened to notice in the sea of Quidposts was seriously some master gambit you set up ahead of time all along, loving laffo dude

Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)
if the quid/bif fight is real, and one of them is scum, then im leaning my way towards bif

quid seems more like frustrated town thats annoyed that bif is always tunneling them day 1 (is this a thing? pls confirm)

not liking how bif is so sure that quid is scum.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005

I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!

Fallen Rib
Give me a minute to look at the thread. This is a good time to do it (boring match)

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

?????????
?

Bifauxnen posted:

oh like that one weird comment I only just now happened to notice in the sea of Quidposts was seriously some master gambit you set up ahead of time all along, loving laffo dude

Bif give me a question: Outside of Quid, who would you lunch today to avoid a NL?

Lux Anima
Apr 17, 2016


Dinosaur Gum

SalTheBard posted:

Phone posting from friends house. Just wanted to see what was going on in the thread.

Well I'm not about to lead the charge against you Day 1 before deadline while you're out being social. I'm not that bloodthirsty.

##unvote

Now I feel the need to press on the other person who hasn't been contributing much.

##vote Chic Trombone

What are your leanings, Chic Trombone?

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Monathin posted:

Bif give me a question: Outside of Quid, who would you lunch today to avoid a NL?

Sal, or another lurker like 50 or maybe Tired. I think Sal would be best though cause he kept being conveniently not mentioned when people brought up lurkers.

MT I'd be much more reluctant to lunch D1 despite my current high suspicion on her, cause she cases well and often does just need more time to come around from being wrong on D1.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005

I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!

Fallen Rib
Gun to my head (and after doing quick skim of the thread). I think Jucheros quick flip on 50 was weird. I'm probably looking at this too meta but I would vote Quid over Bif. I have trouble with D1 reads but this is my gun to the head reads.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

?????????
?

How much time do we have to deadline?

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005

I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!

Fallen Rib

Bifauxnen posted:

Sal, or another lurker like 50 or maybe Tired. I think Sal would be best though cause he kept being conveniently not mentioned when people brought up lurkers.

MT I'd be much more reluctant to lunch D1 despite my current high suspicion on her, cause she cases well and often does just need more time to come around from being wrong on D1.

Except outside of today I have been active. There are a lot of other people with less posts than I do.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005

I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!

Fallen Rib

Monathin posted:

How much time do we have to deadline?

2 and 1/2 hours.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Man all earlier posting aside, I still cannot get over this:

Bifauxnen posted:

ok now that things have calmed down a tad, I'm going back to reread Quid's posts and see if I missed anything compelling he said about Tobbs. Instead, I found this:

Since when did I ever have a narrative of Quid and Juch being scum buddies? I thought if Quid was scum he was framing up poor town Juch then backing off.

Quidthulhu posted:

See I thought you had initially in your Juchero/ Quid connection cause I thought you had said that I was jumping off to protect movement on to him, but saw that instead you thought it was me jumping in a town member. I mostly wanted to see if you remembered that :v: I think Bif's being consistent enough with her logic that she's probably town, but way wrong.

Bifauxnen posted:

oh like that one weird comment I only just now happened to notice in the sea of Quidposts was seriously some master gambit you set up ahead of time all along, loving laffo dude

Me: "Ok I'm finally rereading all Quid's bloody posts - what the hell is this claim about me pushing this narrative I never pushed?"

Quid: "oh, uh, well see, that one random dodgy assertion you happened to find buried in all those posts of mine has a TOTALLY RATIONAL EXPLANATION which is, uh... I MEANT TO DO THAT, to see if you called it out as wrong or not! ...yeah!"

This is as close to a smoking gun as we can get just from day posting imo.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005

I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!

Fallen Rib
Wow I totally missed that.

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Chic Trombone
Jul 25, 2010

i am back from my mother's birthday dinner, give me a hot minute to catch up

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