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Easily explained, it's pure speculation
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Feb 1, 2018 01:21
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hackbunny posted:OK smart guys, what about this one? 
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Feb 1, 2018 01:21
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Audi 5000 CS Turbo Quattro "Talladega", another 1986 one-off, with a unique 25 valve head over the usual Audi I5 block, driven by Bobby Unser at Talladega to set a record and launch the Audi brand in the USA. I have a writeup on it on the GTPlanet forums, craziest part was that the whole car was slightly asymmetric to balance out the centrifugal force. I believe it served as the basis for the Trans-Am quattro: (which was so successful it was banned in all but name) and later for the IMSA GTO quattro:  Tough crowd tonight. Try this one for size:  What in the name of God is that... thing?
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Feb 1, 2018 01:41
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hackbunny posted:
Ferrari 308 GT/M Built for Group B. https://www.carmrades-blog.com/all-articles/2017/4/24/dated-delicacy-ferrari-308-gtm-group-b-prototype 
D C fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Feb 1, 2018 |
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Feb 1, 2018 02:02
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Feb 1, 2018 05:57
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NitroSpazzz posted:
Cutaways are the greatest porn. They don't even need to be of a real thing to be cool.  Bonus, can you guess the singular purpose this vehicle was created for:    Answer:  
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Feb 1, 2018 06:17
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Gorilla Salad posted:
That's not really an answer. My cutaway:  edit: GIS David Kimble Cutaway Jonny Nox fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Feb 1, 2018 |
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Feb 1, 2018 06:34
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hackbunny posted:Audi 5000 CS Turbo Quattro "Talladega", another 1986 one-off, with a unique 25 valve head over the usual Audi I5 block, driven by Bobby Unser at Talladega to set a record and launch the Audi brand in the USA. I have a writeup on it on the GTPlanet forums, craziest part was that the whole car was slightly asymmetric to balance out the centrifugal force. I believe it served as the basis for the Trans-Am quattro: Probably 10+ years ago now but there was a guy with the Minneapolis Audi club that had one of these or a replica, can't remember. He and his brother owned a Audi shop and that was where their spare funds and time went. The thing was an absolute monster and spewed fire out of the side exhaust.
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Feb 1, 2018 14:27
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This is my flavor of bonkers, right here. Multi-engine cars are awesome.
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Feb 1, 2018 15:03
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Sorry, between being sleep deprived and the awful app having issues, wrong thread!
drgitlin fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Feb 2, 2018 |
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Feb 1, 2018 15:04
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MrYenko posted:This is my flavor of bonkers, right here. Multi-engine cars are awesome. Reminds me of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlAyaCKVBTQ Iirc it was featured in Sport Compact Car magazine back in the early 2000's
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Feb 1, 2018 17:48
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Holy crap. That burnout at the end is amazing. I wonder if that car is still running and who owns it, I would love to read a build thread about it.
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Feb 1, 2018 17:57
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Gorilla Salad posted:Bonus, can you guess the singular purpose this vehicle was created for: Surely there's a reason why they're using such a specialised vehicle instead of just hiring an outfit like Mammoet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL3YvOe0ZgE
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Feb 1, 2018 18:03
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MrYenko posted:This is my flavor of bonkers, right here. Multi-engine cars are awesome. Someone actually built a Durocco too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNRguQX6K2M
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Feb 1, 2018 18:07
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I love twin-engined cars. John Cooper nearly killed himself in a twin-engined Mini back in the sixties.
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Feb 1, 2018 18:35
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cheese-cube posted:Surely there's a reason why they're using such a specialised vehicle instead of just hiring an outfit like Mammoet: Because it can pick up the radio dishes itself and place them precisely. The Mammoet ones need a crane to pick them up. content: 
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Feb 1, 2018 18:53
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D C posted:Built for Group B. Close enough. Let's say it pined for group B. It was never homologated, and how could it have been? only three were built, EF001 (the one in your photo, full ownership and service history until 2013 here), EF002 (the one in mine) and EF003, out of the 200 required. It is related to FIA group B, though, as a "missing link" of sorts. As we all (...) know, the Ferrari rally and GT track car, the 308 GTB, had a naturally aspirated Ferrari V8 in a transversal mount:  Its successor, the Ferrari GTO (this one an official group B car, albeit never raced), had improved aerodynamics, the same engine, but with twin turbochargers and famously, a longitudinal mount that pushed the transmission so far back it almost looked like it could come out of the bumper:  The GTO spawned an evolution version with a radical new aerodynamic body:  ... that eventually evolved into the legendary F40. These evolutions didn't come out of nowhere. Obviously, the GT/M's ugly shape was a prototype for the GTO evolution body. The improved aerodynamics of the stock GTO, on the other hand, can be traced back to the "Millechiodi" ("Thousand nails") prototype:  The longitudinal mount, as you might have guessed by now, first debuted in the GT/M as well:  I know, nothing particularly Earth-shattering: an iconic Ferrari design had a long and storied development history that passed through a slightly less legendary car and a mean, ugly little prototype. What's unique about the GT/M, however, is that unlike other prototypes, like the half dozen Visas dreamed up in Citroen's design competition, FSO's crazy Ferrari-engined Fiat 125 or the Lancia Rally "Mazinga" (... say what?), the GT/M actually ran in a rally race once, and we have the photos and entry list to prove it. It could probably never in a million years run in an official FIA-sanctioned event, not even as a course car, but there was an Italian event with a history of one-off prototype entries: the Rally Autodromo di Monza. It was a pretty unique race: it included, among others, a super-special stage (fifteen laps of the Monza circuit) and a special stage that ran through the city's public park, on narrow roads and dirt trails flanked by tree trunks and screaming fans. By all accounts, it was a god drat blast for both audience and crews - I've read that a car once accumulated a ton of penalties because the pilot couldn't stop at just 15 laps of the circuit - and the occasional rally prototype (a totally alien concept in FIA rallies) was even more reason for cheer. Granted, the "prototypes" more often than not were simply group B cars with illegal aero, like the Toivonen/Piironen Ferrari in 1983:  ... but it could also happen that Michelotto (Ferrari's motorsport arm in all but name) could take one of their rough prototypes, slap a test drive license plate on its rear end and two asses in its seats, enter it in an ad-hoc "group Special" class (under the name of "Ferrari 308 IMSA", one of Enzo Ferrari's many half-joking threats to desert the FIA and take his toys to America), and blow the doors off of the competition with a car that looked like it belonged more at Le Mans than a rally:       (... until it crashed, that is, and so ended in a DNF the GT/M's only competitive outing) Even weirder than seeing an F40 proto-prototype tearing through a park trail, though, is probably seeing that same car a few years later, regularly license plated and serving as a rich collector's daily driver:   Trivia: if unofficial Ferrari registries are to be believed (see also), the EF001 wasn't built from scratch, but it was actually carved out of a Ferrari 308 GTB chassis, #21343, that was reportedly totaled at the 1985 Rally del Pane (one of the minor regional events that privateer Porsche and Ferrari teams excelled at) and never raced again:  In my opinion, the Ferrari 308 GTB is an unjustly forgotten chapter of rally history. I spent nearly a month researching it (and beware, the Rally Group B Shrine article about it is full of inaccuracies), and it earned a lot of respect in my eyes. It could never compete at an international level, sure, but it was a mainstay and a power to be reckoned with at regional races - not to mention, one of the very few aesthetically pleasing rally cars. And unlike other transplants from the world of closed track racing like the BMW M1, the 308 wasn't a tarmac queen afraid to get its wheels dirty:    whaaa? Yes! you saw that right: it's a Baja Ferrari   DNF (electrical), sadly (the Spanish madmen responsible for this remarkable machine didn't let failure discourage them, and came back the following year with a Baja Ford RS200). At least it was spared the indignity of being entered in a rally raid in road trim, as this unlucky one was:  Reportedly, it lasted 10 whole kilometres before a suspension arm, an engine mount, the hood hinge and two shock absorbers failed and the crew was forced to fire a signal flare, the regulation distress signal. A couple days later, what remained of the poor Ferrari was sold as spare parts to the local Ferrari dealer. Navigator Max Sghedoni doesn't say exactly what race it was, but I've been able to track down a Reno Gazette-Journal article that places car and crew at the 1984 Reno International Pro Rally. Sghedoni's tale of the unfortunate race is a hilarious comedy of errors (pity it's written in Italian). A highlight: he managed to sneak into the marshals' meeting to take notes on the (secret) route, fat lot of good that it did Should you want your own made from scratch and FIA registered rally 308 GTB, Finnish outfit Makela Auto Tuning regularly pumps out new ones for, I'm sure, a reasonable price. If you have $999000 burning a hole in your pocket, why not go straight for a Dutch-made 308 GT/M replica instead? hackbunny fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Mar 24, 2018 |
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Feb 1, 2018 18:57
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iospace posted:Because it can pick up the radio dishes itself and place them precisely. The Mammoet ones need a crane to pick them up. Wait a minute is that at one of the SKA sites? If so then yeah, I can easily see why having a specialised vehicle would be advantageous for a project like that.
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Feb 1, 2018 19:13
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I just love that Ferrari themselves made something uglier than any Fiero body kit. Those cars are also rad as gently caress. cheese-cube posted:Wait a minute is that at one of the SKA sites? If so then yeah, I can easily see why having a specialised vehicle would be advantageous for a project like that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVHnhkabnRE&t=10s Wasabi the J fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Feb 1, 2018 |
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Feb 1, 2018 19:20
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cheese-cube posted:Wait a minute is that at one of the SKA sites? If so then yeah, I can easily see why having a specialised vehicle would be advantageous for a project like that. Nah, it's the Atacama Large Millimeter Array. The air up there is thin enough that the transporters have oxygen for the drivers.
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Feb 1, 2018 19:24
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While that's all very interesting, tell me about the rally Oldsmobile G-body (well, technically still called an "A-body" that year) Cutlass.
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Feb 1, 2018 20:55
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Audi cutaways!      I have the RS2 cutaway framed in my home office.
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Feb 1, 2018 20:59
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hackbunny posted:Audi 5000 CS Turbo Quattro "Talladega", another 1986 one-off, with a unique 25 valve head over the usual Audi I5 block, driven by Bobby Unser at Talladega to set a record and launch the Audi brand in the USA. I have a writeup on it on the GTPlanet forums 200 Group A a subpar rally car?! Mr. Röhrl would like a word.  Either they won the Safari Rallye twice, or they came first and second the same year with the 200, I can't remember.
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Feb 1, 2018 21:07
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Holy crap. That burnout at the end is amazing. IIRC, it was featured in the second Ultimate Street Car Challenge and had non-intercooled turbos on both engines. Pop the hood, looks like maybe 250 horsepower. The guys the owner raced didn't know that there was a second engine and they both burned methanol.
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Feb 1, 2018 21:50
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NitroSpazzz posted:Probably 10+ years ago now but there was a guy with the Minneapolis Audi club that had one of these or a replica, can't remember. Could easily be either, I get the impression that it isn't hard to make faithful replicas of 80s Audi GT race cars, as they were (to a fault) very close to the production cars, and the production cars to each other (how close exactly, are we talking? Well, to make the Trans Am Quattro body, they took an Audi 200, cut off the front sub-frame, replaced it with a tube frame, remade the front-end in plastic, made a widened plastic back-end, and pretty much that's it. A lot of work? Sure, but the norm for Trans Am cars was to completely remake the car as a space frame topped with an often pretty vague silhouette body) Enjoy for a recent example Prospeed's transformation of a tired old Audi Coupe:  into a modernized Sport Quattro S1 that won the Bulgarian hillclimb championship in 2011:  ... and did I mention it sounds just like the real thing? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f841sP_mtyE (or drat close to. And this is the first time I noticed it comes with the dual-clutch system too) NitroSpazzz posted:He and his brother owned a Audi shop and that was where their spare funds and time went. The thing was an absolute monster and spewed fire out of the side exhaust. I bet it sounded great
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Feb 1, 2018 22:17
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afen posted:200 Group A a subpar rally car?! Mr. Röhrl would like a word. Oh it's just my being Italian talking. To me, group A means Lancia Delta Integrale and... Lancia Delta Integrale, Lancia Delta Integrale, Lancia Delta Integrale... Darchangel posted:While that's all very interesting, tell me about the rally Oldsmobile G-body (well, technically still called an "A-body" that year) Cutlass. I wish I knew anything more than that photo  I can't even find an entry list for that race!
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Feb 1, 2018 22:20
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afen posted:200 Group A a subpar rally car?! Mr. Röhrl would like a word. Yes actually it is subpar, it was a mess even compared to the basic Japanese beginnings of rally dominance - There really was only the Mazda 323 GTR in 1987 as a semi serious WRC tilt - let alone Lancia got a what was in reality a turd of a car (but still a load better) to win multiple times by throwing the kind of resources no one else at the time could get close to. The win you referred to, Lancia didn't even show up for the Safari (neither did Mazda, Renault OR Ford) and thence Audi were the only works team with any sort of effort - win by default. 1987 was the year Group A basically only had Lancia (Delta HF), Ford (Sierra 4x4) and Mazda (GTR) with serious effort or cars, the Audi was a lumbering understeering beast in a field of smaller less lumbering and more powerful cars that were clearly generation 1 efforts (and in many ways pretty half arsed) but still pointed in the direction of what Group A AWD would become. In reality, 1987 - 1990 were transition years of manufacturers not really getting it right vs cubic cash and resources of Lancia. Once the Gen II Group A cars were on the horizion thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat kinda changed just a bit.... CAT INTERCEPTOR fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Feb 1, 2018 |
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Feb 1, 2018 22:32
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DiggityDoink posted:Reminds me of this 
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Feb 2, 2018 02:34
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triple clutcher posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ7byW6CxHM This is going to be so expensive, holy moly.
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Feb 2, 2018 02:56
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There's nothing like a good effortpost, great work hackbunny.
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Feb 2, 2018 05:42
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I think hackbunny makes huge effortposts about programming too full of really rare knowledge
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Feb 2, 2018 06:08
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Darchangel posted:While that's all very interesting, tell me about the rally Oldsmobile G-body (well, technically still called an "A-body" that year) Cutlass. Actually, I’m pretty sure that’s an 80s Olds Omega. A rebadged Citation.
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Feb 2, 2018 07:26
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Yes actually it is subpar, it was a mess even compared to the basic Japanese beginnings of rally dominance - There really was only the Mazda 323 GTR in 1987 as a semi serious WRC tilt - let alone Lancia got a what was in reality a turd of a car (but still a load better) to win multiple times by throwing the kind of resources no one else at the time could get close to. The win you referred to, Lancia didn't even show up for the Safari (neither did Mazda, Renault OR Ford) and thence Audi were the only works team with any sort of effort - win by default. I know, I'm just fanboying over here  I remember watching some promotional movie from Audi about the quattros in racing, and I think the only mention of the 200 rallye was from that Safari rally.
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Feb 2, 2018 13:57
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hackbunny posted:And unlike other transplants from the world of closed track racing like the BMW M1, the 308 wasn't a tarmac queen afraid to get its wheels dirty:  but...  Some cool stuff on this site - https://rallygroupbshrine.org/the-group-b-cars/rally-cars/bmw-m1-rally-production-version/ hackbunny posted:Could easily be either, I get the impression that it isn't hard to make faithful replicas of 80s Audi GT race cars, as they were (to a fault) very close to the production cars, and the production cars to each other (how close exactly, are we talking? Well, to make the Trans Am Quattro body, they took an Audi 200, cut off the front sub-frame, replaced it with a tube frame, remade the front-end in plastic, made a widened plastic back-end, and pretty much that's it. A lot of work? Sure, but the norm for Trans Am cars was to completely remake the car as a space frame topped with an often pretty vague silhouette body)
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Feb 2, 2018 15:13
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One thing bugs me about how people always tout the Audi Trans Am championship in '88 is that basically, well yeah, a manufacturer that enters a series against a bunch of non-factory-supported privateers can generally win. When the cars are running around the same pace (if you look at results, even when the Audis won there typically were half dozen to a dozen others on the lead lap, so they didn't have that much more pace) professional drivers and a professional organization sure as heck doesn't hurt things.
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Feb 2, 2018 20:01
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NitroSpazzz posted:Amazing post I really should make a post about it (and reveal the really silly reason I know so much about the Ferrari 308), but you can instantly tell that this is a group 4 car, from the exaggerated fender flares (and, I guess, the wider tyres they allowed) that were banned in group B. Many (most?) group 4 cars had those, and the ones that were transferred to group B, among which the Ferrari 308 GTB, the BMW M1 and yeah, the Audi quattro too, had to lose them. It's a really handy way to date a rally photo from the 80s If I'm not mistaken [e: I am], the BMW M1 ran a grand total of one rally in group 4... ... and one rally in group B. I'm much better informed on group B so while I ignored that the group 4 M1 ran on gravel, I'm like, 100% sure that this photo comes from the Tour de Corse, so that's not gravel, just lovely tarmac. Why was a big-rear end sports coupe even registered in group B you might ask? Well, group B wasn't just for rallies: it was the "production" class at Le Mans and other endurance races. The larger group B cars like the BMW M1 and the front-engined or turbo Porsches rarely if ever rallied, but they were Le Mans and Nurburgring staples (I wonder why Audi never tried? I guess the track events retained the 4WD ban post-1981) NitroSpazzz posted:Some cool stuff on this site - https://rallygroupbshrine.org/the-group-b-cars/rally-cars/bmw-m1-rally-production-version/ I may sound informed but the guy who runs that site built his own group B prototype and like, I can't compete. However, the Ferrari 308 article was full of little mistakes (because if there's one thing I can do well is read tedious technical documentation like the FIA forms) and I sent the guy a list of corrections, but... I got an automated reply saying that he has a backlog of external contributions about two years long to go through, and it may take a while Some notable prototypes are missing from his list, too, like the 308 GT/M and the two final evolutions of the Lancia Rally (a turbocharged prototype and the mighty twincharged "Mazinga") that eventually spawned the Delta S4. eWRC-results is another good resource, but again full of little mistakes and omissions, and they too are a private website and not a wiki, so while I would have gladly toiled away copying entry lists for rallies held when I was a toddler, I had to send them a huge list of corrections and additions but never heard back. I'm considering starting my own website, with blackjack and hookers etc. NitroSpazzz posted:Keep in mind 10-15 years ago race cars of the 80's were sold at dirt cheap prices because no one cared about them. Several true DTM cars with history were bought for under 15k, cars that are now in the 100-150k range and that's just BMWs. God drat it yeah, and not just race cars. As soon as I thought I had the money for a Ford Escort Cosworth, I checked the prices and they had shot up from 10k to 30k  The silver lining is that some people did buy them for cheap, and still race them. Like this Alfa Romeo 155 V6 TI, a regular sight at Italian hillclimbs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFJQGWz9AmM mekilljoydammit posted:One thing bugs me about how people always tout the Audi Trans Am championship in '88 is that basically, well yeah, a manufacturer that enters a series against a bunch of non-factory-supported privateers can generally win. When the cars are running around the same pace (if you look at results, even when the Audis won there typically were half dozen to a dozen others on the lead lap, so they didn't have that much more pace) professional drivers and a professional organization sure as heck doesn't hurt things. Seems Audi liked to come to the USA with their factory cars and factory drivers and just, like, steamroll the competition. The 1984 Reno International Pro Rally I mentioned? Audi entered and won, duh (Sghedoni jokes that their bone stock Ferrari 308 could have been parked under one of the works Audis, so high off the ground they were). I think you can count the people who know or care about SCCA rallies in Europe on one hand, but Audi liked to win hackbunny fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Feb 2, 2018 |
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Feb 2, 2018 20:37
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hackbunny posted:SCCA rallies in Europe on one hand, but Audi liked to win Sports Car Club of America rallies...in Europe!
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Feb 2, 2018 21:03
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Larrymer posted:Sports Car Club of America rallies...in Europe! Oh come on now. Do I have to prove that I know Reno is in America? or that SCCA is American? I wrote a mini-article on the winner of the 1972 Press On Regardless, you know (first 4WD win in a FIA rally!) People in Europe didn't care about SCCA is what I said. Except Audi. Audi cared enough about SCCA to know they could win and so they went and won. Don't grill my balls over an awkward sentence
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Feb 2, 2018 23:05
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Q_res posted:Actually, I’m pretty sure that’s an 80s Olds Omega. A rebadged Citation. Is it? I was finding it difficult to judge the size. From that angle, the grilles are more or less identical, and I went with what I wanted it to be. If it's an Omega, I'd have to wonder what a FWD compact was doing in a rally, and then decide I don't care. edit: I think you're right. 78-79 Cutlass had park lights inboard fo the headlights, and that hood ridge in the center was pretty much the width of the grilles, rather than the width of the bit between them, and '81 and later Cutlasses had quad headlights. Also, I don't think the Cutlass ever used mirrors mounted in the forward triangle of the side window. They always used mirrors mounted on stalks to the door below the window. 1979 Cutlass (Salon fastback, specifically):   I can only imagine how miserable rallying one of those was. edit 2: The Omega had parking lights inboard of the headlights, too, but they weren't separate elements. They're mounted behind the grille, rather than as part of the headlight trim. FWD Omegas are NOT awesome AI car poo poo. The Cutlass Salon Fastback is... debatable. It *is* a hatchback wagon-ish thing. Darchangel fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Feb 3, 2018 |
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Feb 3, 2018 00:11
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Darchangel posted:I can only imagine how miserable rallying one of those was. What American cars would you call good rally cars? I've seen some photos of SCCA events of the 80s and lots of words come to mind seeing the cars, "fascinating", "interesting choice", "charming", but "good" I'm not sure. As a rule, there's always a guy with a Willys Jeep and a guy with a Beetle, sometimes there's a gigantic V8 pick up truck, and the rest of the lineup is what passed for muscle cars in the 80s and a plain weird assortment of (often outdated) imports. And Oldsmobiles Omegas. They were actually pretty common as rally cars, from what I see on eWRC-results, and hey, third place at the 1982 Reno International Pro Rally is not too shabby It's actually pretty cool, I assume there were few or no factory teams. Much closer to the spirit of rally racing e: man, SCCA Pro Rally sounds awesome. I had never seen a "Stuck in the ford" DNF before. When I get bored with group B, I know what to research next hackbunny fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Feb 3, 2018 |
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Feb 3, 2018 00:51
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