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Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.

Jose Valasquez posted:

You keep leaving off the second half of my quote. I didn't say there aren't people who aren't going to buy in to the idea, I said it has more traction than ever before.

Because I meant "arguing" specifically with respect to this thread and similar places, particularly with people who don't buy into any sort of social progress or reform. Of course not everyone in the world is against UBI, silly. Not everyone is a greedy piece of poo poo with a complete disregard for the suffering of others.

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kitten smoothie
Dec 29, 2001

Munkeymon posted:

Is there like a meme generator for that?

https://m.photofunia.com/effects/retro-wave

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004


:911:
:wookie: :thermidor: :wookie:
:dehumanize:

:pirate::hf::tinfoil:

fantastic in plastic posted:

What do you mean by a "democratic" workplace?

To me, it means one where the direction of the company (and/or each smaller part of a company) is controlled by the laborers and they are privy to the information required to make those decisions (financial info).

Loutre
Jan 14, 2004

✓COMFY
✓CLASSY
✓HORNY
✓PEPSI
My skype interview went pretty well, but their cameras didn't work so it was one sided.. kinda awkward.

Hopefully time to start bartering for a move package soon :toot:

fantastic in plastic
Jun 15, 2007

The Socialist Workers Party's newspaper proved to be a tough sell to downtown businessmen.

taqueso posted:

To me, it means one where the direction of the company (and/or each smaller part of a company) is controlled by the laborers and they are privy to the information required to make those decisions (financial info).

What form does this control take?

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004


fantastic in plastic posted:

What form does this control take?

Stratified foosball tournaments.

Pixelboy
Sep 13, 2005

Now, I know what you're thinking...

The Fool posted:

Latency is still bad, but most other problems are solved, and is more than good enough to manage aws/gcp/azure and git push

What about cost per GB?

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

fantastic in plastic posted:

What form does this control take?

Obviously, the "laborers" will "acquire" the "methods" of "making poo poo". Totally not communism.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004


:911:
:wookie: :thermidor: :wookie:
:dehumanize:

:pirate::hf::tinfoil:

fantastic in plastic posted:

What form does this control take?

Casual Fridays

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Maybe you could set up a company charter that says "Every employee gets a single share of voting stock, which is lost if they leave the company, and these are the only voting shares that will exist at any time". In other words, one worker = one vote.

I have trouble imagining how such a setup could come about organically, though. It's exceedingly difficult to convince someone in a position of power to give up that power, and that's pretty much what you'd have to do to the founders of the company.

fantastic in plastic
Jun 15, 2007

The Socialist Workers Party's newspaper proved to be a tough sell to downtown businessmen.

Skandranon posted:

Obviously, the "laborers" will "acquire" the "methods" of "making poo poo". Totally not communism.

I was imagining some kind of nightmare world where engineering is trying to cut the marketing department's budget every quarter to cut down on feature creep, marketing is retaliating by refusing to hire any new engineers, sales is led by a charismatic party animal who wants to spend 50% of the company budget on cocaine and alcohol, and the only thing we can agree on is that Legal and Compliance urgently need a new departmental HQ in Alaska.

B-Nasty
May 25, 2005

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

It's exceedingly difficult to convince someone in a position of power to give up that power, and that's pretty much what you'd have to do to the founders of the company.

Not just them, but you'd also have to convince every person/entity that ever invested in the company that what they spent $$$ on is equal to the vote Joe the intern has on his first day. Not many businesses can start without a huge injection of cash, or at the very least, a bunch of free time invested by the founders. Why wouldn't those people want to have a bit more say in how the business runs.

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.
Who said anything about control? Let privatization exist the way it is and let companies run themselves into the ground and let VCs blow their money on Datavizer.ly or whatever -- just tax the exceedingly wealthy and companies of a larger scale at a higher rate.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


If they become massively wealthy off of the labor and money of others, then they ought to give back to the society they took from in the first place. Nobody needs that much goddamn money.

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.
There's no way Prystonn J. R. Filibris of Excellence Partners in Silicon Valley will stop pumping his daddy's money into the next big and lovely start-up just because tax rates are marginally higher. There is literally no bad that can come out of raising tax rates to give money back to the laborers that have been exploited for decades. Just because us "Oldie engineers" are currently on the good side of this doesn't mean the system is fair and we shouldn't complain about it. That's a terrible way of thinking that will do literally no good for society.

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


Pixelboy posted:

What about cost per GB?

Hughesnet should have a plan that does 250gb for $70/month at 20Mbs

Not something to watch Netflix on, but just fine for working.

Pixelboy
Sep 13, 2005

Now, I know what you're thinking...

The Fool posted:

Hughesnet should have a plan that does 250gb for $70/month at 20Mbs

Not something to watch Netflix on, but just fine for working.

Not as bad as I would have thought. I still RDP/ssh back to monster machines when moving data is prohibitive (we work with some staggering datasets)... so maybe this would work.

For, you know, when I'm working from my yacht. Yeah.

Doctor w-rw-rw-
Jun 24, 2008

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Maybe you could set up a company charter that says "Every employee gets a single share of voting stock, which is lost if they leave the company, and these are the only voting shares that will exist at any time". In other words, one worker = one vote.

I have trouble imagining how such a setup could come about organically, though. It's exceedingly difficult to convince someone in a position of power to give up that power, and that's pretty much what you'd have to do to the founders of the company.

IIRC this becomes untenable when you hit 400 shareholders because of SEC stuff.

Remember reddit notes? It was going to be 10% of reddit shares backed by colored coins (basically a bitcoin sub-currency). Died along similar lines, though it was also a bit crazier because crypto :shepface:. I also remember asking what their security model for the coins was against advanced persistent threats to reddit (for example - I poo poo you not - what if a state level actor wanted to manipulate social media) and that got dismissed as fantasy/irrelevant.

Doctor w-rw-rw- fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Feb 1, 2018

muon
Sep 13, 2008

by Reene
ITT a bunch of software engineers re-invent worker co-operatives

spiritual bypass
Feb 19, 2008

Grimey Drawer
All power to the insufferable neckbeards councils imo

fantastic in plastic
Jun 15, 2007

The Socialist Workers Party's newspaper proved to be a tough sell to downtown businessmen.

muon posted:

ITT a bunch of software engineers re-invent worker co-operatives

disrupt the bourgeoisie

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


fantastic in plastic posted:

disrupt the bourgeoisie

:thermidor:

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

muon posted:

ITT a bunch of software engineers re-invent worker co-operatives

Unions, but with blockchain

There's my gently caress-you-got-mine money in the bag!

Doctor w-rw-rw-
Jun 24, 2008

csammis posted:

Unions, but with blockchain

Hmm. Is it actually plausible to use the blockchain for an anonymous card check?

B-Nasty
May 25, 2005

Good Will Hrunting posted:

There is literally no bad that can come out of raising tax rates to give money back to the laborers that have been exploited for decades.

Is that based on your deep study of economics, or are you driven by some ideological and overly simplistic idea of fairness?

I just think it's worth considering that software engineers are much closer to the bourgeoisie than the proletariat. Lumping most Western, software jobs in the exploitative category would probably be pretty offensive to the truly downtrodden.

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.
poor people should starve and die of diseases we have cures for now, got it.

muon
Sep 13, 2008

by Reene

B-Nasty posted:

Is that based on your deep study of economics, or are you driven by some ideological and overly simplistic idea of fairness?

I just think it's worth considering that software engineers are much closer to the bourgeoisie than the proletariat. Lumping most Western, software jobs in the exploitative category would probably be pretty offensive to the truly downtrodden.

Man accusing someone else of not having an understanding of economics: I just think it's worth considering that people who sell their labor for wages are much closer to the bourgeoisie than the proletariat

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:

Hmm. Is it actually plausible to use the blockchain for an anonymous card check?

Uh maybe? I don't actually know what the blockchain is :shobon:

But in no way should that stop VCs from giving me tons of money which I will redistribute to the masses according to their need!

metztli
Mar 19, 2006
Which lead to the obvious photoshop, making me suspect that their ad agencies or creative types must be aware of what goes on at SA

Pixelboy posted:

Not as bad as I would have thought. I still RDP/ssh back to monster machines when moving data is prohibitive (we work with some staggering datasets)... so maybe this would work.

For, you know, when I'm working from my yacht. Yeah.

There's also point to point wifi, which is what I have since I live in the boonies, and the latency isn't too bad - about 40-50ms on average. It's about 15mbps for $95/month. Only difficulty is wherever you are you'd have to be in LOS of a tower - though since cell towers are everywhere that might not be too difficult.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

Good Will Hrunting posted:

poor people should starve and die of diseases we have cures for now, got it.

You seem quite intent on staying in this hell you have built for yourself. I guess good luck?

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.

Skandranon posted:

You seem quite intent on staying in this hell you have built for yourself. I guess good luck?

What hell? I have a six figure job with air conditioning and a STOCKED FRIDGE!

in a well actually
Jan 26, 2011

dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme

fantastic in plastic posted:

I was imagining some kind of nightmare world where engineering is trying to cut the marketing department's budget every quarter to cut down on feature creep, marketing is retaliating by refusing to hire any new engineers, sales is led by a charismatic party animal who wants to spend 50% of the company budget on cocaine and alcohol, and the only thing we can agree on is that Legal and Compliance urgently need a new departmental HQ in Alaska.

Sounds like the stories that came out after the Objectivist hedge fund guy took over Sears.

Retail as a whole may be heading over a cliff but he certainly threw a brick on the accelerator.

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

fantastic in plastic posted:

What do you mean by a "democratic" workplace?
Democracy at work can take different forms. One practical form is a worker co-op. This just means that the employees are their own employers. The employees become their own boss.

In a traditional american corporation, a tiny minority makes all the important decisions of what to do, how to do it, where to do it, who does it, and what to do with the products. The tiny minority typically decides to own what is produced, including any intellectual property.

A democratic organization would have the workers make all these very important decisions instead. The democracy could include the consumers and the society that are affected by the decisions.

The workers could rule directly. The workers could alternatively use representatives. The workers can hire management specialists to help run the enterprise. You will notice that majority shareholders in American businesses already do something similar. Majority shareholders appoint representatives and management specialists to run the enterprise they own.

My theory is that the reason people are so miserable at work is that they live in a dictatorship for the most productive portions of their lives. This includes people compensated relatively well to the median although often wildly disconnected from their actual productivity.

spiritual bypass
Feb 19, 2008

Grimey Drawer
All this talk of people who own no economically useful property being the same as the actual capitalist class reeks of Stalinism

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Nobody is saying to go after the “middle class” over the likes of Bezos.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

Pollyanna posted:

Nobody is saying to go after the “middle class” over the likes of Bezos.

Pretty sure that's exactly the line Lenin/Stalin took, until they ran out of Bezos to go after.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Then they were more interested in conquest than improving society if they had no interest in drawing the line. That’s just a different form of brutality.

Anyway this belongs in the DSA thread rather than this one at this point.

prisoner of waffles
May 8, 2007

Ah! well a-day! what evil looks
Had I from old and young!
Instead of the cross, the fishmech
About my neck was hung.
Don't know much about co-ops, but these look like worth a read.
https://www.techworker.coop
an example: https://feeltrain.com/hello-feel-train/#a-hard-limit-on-scale

Ostiosis
Nov 3, 2002

At the very least if you live in the US or England it's not a good look to accuse other countries of killing people lol

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Loutre
Jan 14, 2004

✓COMFY
✓CLASSY
✓HORNY
✓PEPSI
Here's a new one for me: my video interview went so well I have to take a new test and more interviews for a senior level position instead.

I'm at 4 years experience, and would be senior level amongst a team of mid-levels who nearly all have more years than me. My understanding of senior level is a greater focus on mentoring, design decisions, and business partner engagement, which I'm comfortable with.

The last test I took from them was half C#, for a position that's entirely in SQL, and I had to bullshit half my answers. I really hope that bombing a senior level test won't preclude me from the original, mid-level position. Anyone had this happen before, or have any tips for prep for a higher level position like this? I appreciated the advice on my last interview.

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