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I don't use systemd in two instances: 1) My factory flash filing systems, as the only job is a single init script that runs /usr/bin/flash_fs 2) Initramfs filing system. My embedded devices always have an initramfs that chroots into a rootfs on a separate partition. As such it doesn't even have a init. The rootfs does, however, have systemd. It's cool and good.
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Feb 1, 2018 15:39
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:\we need to use bash for init because the language that literally forks a process to evaluate an if statement is somehow a better fit on a smaller system wait what *hangs self* [ and test are builtins in bash and i thought the if statement just "executed" whatever and didn't necessarily fork unless it was an external command
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Feb 1, 2018 21:46
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hifi posted:just connected the dots that tmux has 24 bit color support so the rest of my terminal should too Any major advantage of using tmux over screen?
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Feb 1, 2018 22:03
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i see no inherent problem with shell scripts on an embedded system as long as it has a tmp directory for scratch work busybox ash is a better option than bash though
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Feb 1, 2018 22:09
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i'd even say that unix shells rival forth as an embedded development bootstrap (obviously on very different hardware classes)
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Feb 1, 2018 22:14
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"b-b-but the process churn" so what? you're talking about process table entries, not condoms. you can use them more than once
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Feb 1, 2018 22:19
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Gazpacho posted:i see no inherent problem with shell scripts on an embedded system as long as it has a tmp directory for scratch work [ and test aren't builtins in ash. tradeoffs. as long as forks are cheap (especially in busybox where everything is the same executable anyway?) you're okay I guess. (I have *no* experience in embedded stuff except for working on existing Perl code for an firewall appliance based on a soekris type motherboard but that was 15 years ago. and if you're running perl you're already at the point where I doubt that even counts as "embedded".)
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Feb 1, 2018 22:28
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trilljester posted:Any major advantage of using tmux over screen? i think screen is mostly at feature parity now with tmux, but you use to have to patch screen to get vertical splitting. maybe navigating between split screens? tmux has the notion of moving up/down/left/right and i think screen still only lets you rotate between panes.
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Feb 2, 2018 01:01
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Another great thing about the shell is that you can easily generate a whole lot of console output and look like a leet matrix hacker
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Feb 2, 2018 01:02
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There Will Be Penalty posted:[ and test aren't builtins in ash. tradeoffs. as long as forks are cheap (especially in busybox where everything is the same executable anyway?) you're okay I guess. (I have *no* experience in embedded stuff except for working on existing Perl code for an firewall appliance based on a soekris type motherboard but that was 15 years ago. and if you're running perl you're already at the point where I doubt that even counts as "embedded".) embedded doesn't just mean microcontrollers. for linuxes if you're running busybox its embedded
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Feb 2, 2018 01:08
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hobbesmaster posted:embedded doesn't just mean microcontrollers. for linuxes if you're running busybox its embedded like android
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Feb 2, 2018 01:11
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hifi posted:i think screen is mostly at feature parity now with tmux, but you use to have to patch screen to get vertical splitting. maybe navigating between split screens? tmux has the notion of moving up/down/left/right and i think screen still only lets you rotate between panes. use iterm and tmux -CC
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Feb 2, 2018 01:13
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trilljester posted:Any major advantage of using tmux over screen? tmux is the hipster choice so use screen preferably old GPLv2 screen
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Feb 2, 2018 03:51
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Gazpacho posted:i'd even say that unix shells rival forth as an embedded development bootstrap (obviously on very different hardware classes) I saw one project for a non-Unix OS use Tcl in this role shudder
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Feb 2, 2018 03:53
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trilljester posted:Any major advantage of using tmux over screen? not having to remap the loving prefix from ctrl-a to something usable
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Feb 2, 2018 04:30
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eschaton posted:I saw one project for a non-Unix OS use Tcl in this role  <(go on)
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Feb 2, 2018 04:33
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Gazpacho posted:
well, they wanted to be able to write scripts at startup and also occasionally use a command shell but their process model was entirely unlike Unix, so they used Tcl
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Feb 2, 2018 08:14
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eschaton posted:well, they wanted to be able to write scripts at startup and also occasionally use a command shell I use some software which needs to be scripted in TCL and honestly it's not terrible. I think I might even rather write TCL than bash.
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Feb 2, 2018 08:20
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VikingofRock posted:I use some software which needs to be scripted in TCL and honestly it's not terrible. I think I might even rather write TCL than bash. just remember to delete all extraneous whitespace to maximize performance
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Feb 2, 2018 09:18
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Speaking of systemd being cool and good: https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2018-January/040299.html The new sd-bus api callouts are cool and good. Also the DHCPv6 stuff and a bunch of other stuff.
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Feb 2, 2018 15:12
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oh nice now i can use systemd-networkd to run an ipv6 gateway radvd sux
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Feb 2, 2018 15:29
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Sapozhnik posted:oh nice now i can use systemd-networkd to run an ipv6 gateway somewhere, a greybeard screams
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Feb 3, 2018 04:43
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trilljester posted:Any major advantage of using tmux over screen? havent used either for a while but i vaguely remember tmux's shortcuts and config syntax being significantly better than screen's
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Feb 3, 2018 19:37
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Progressive JPEG posted:havent used either for a while but i vaguely remember tmux's shortcuts and config syntax being significantly better than screen's there's literally no reason to choose tmux if you're already used to screen. the only reason people use tmux is because they're new to linux so they're inclined to test out the newest and hottest stuff
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Feb 3, 2018 19:39
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Tankakern posted:there's literally no reason to choose tmux if you're already used to screen. the only reason people use tmux is because they're new to linux so they're inclined to test out the newest and hottest stuff there's one reason the predominant terminal emulator on osx has super-slick integration with tmux, and not screen
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Feb 3, 2018 19:45
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now that i think about it some more, i think i had a sweet setup on tmux where i had multiple tabs going with some kind of tab UI along the bottom showing which of the tabs had new activity. was p useful when i was leeching off a friend's colo machine; i could have one tab with irssi, another with mutt, and i forget what i had in the third tab. prior to that i'd been using screen for basic detach/attach functionality but i never got the hang of screen's handling of tabs or panels. then i tried that with tmux and it was extremely straightforward to configure and looked better out of the box than screen's version did. that said this was like 5-7 years ago so im pretty fuzzy on the details, and/or screen or tmux could've changed a bit since then
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Feb 3, 2018 19:50
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the only thing i use screen for is connecting to a device over a serial port, a lacode:
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Feb 3, 2018 20:06
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Progressive JPEG posted:now that i think about it some more, i think i had a sweet setup on tmux where i had multiple tabs going with some kind of tab UI along the bottom showing which of the tabs had new activity. was p useful when i was leeching off a friend's colo machine; i could have one tab with irssi, another with mutt, and i forget what i had in the third tab. i think thats basically the default for screen/tmux. highlight the terminals that have a bell go off
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Feb 3, 2018 20:07
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Tankakern posted:there's literally no reason to choose tmux if you're already used to screen. the only reason people use tmux is because they're new to linux so they're inclined to test out the newest and hottest stuff i assume that goes both ways right? i learned on tmux so there's no real reason to learn screen unless i encounter a system that can only have screen?
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Feb 3, 2018 20:25
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carry on then posted:i assume that goes both ways right? i learned on tmux so there's no real reason to learn screen unless i encounter a system that can only have screen? it's kind of more like vim/any other cli editor. busybox and default linuxes probably all have screen
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Feb 3, 2018 20:39
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hifi posted:it's kind of more like vim/any other cli editor. busybox and default linuxes probably all have screen that's not what i was asking, i'm curious about the case where both are available. any reason to try screen if i have tmux available?
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Feb 3, 2018 20:41
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carry on then posted:that's not what i was asking, i'm curious about the case where both are available. any reason to try screen if i have tmux available? no
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Feb 3, 2018 20:51
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thanks!
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Feb 3, 2018 20:54
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hifi posted:i think thats basically the default for screen/tmux. highlight the terminals that have a bell go off with iterm & tmux it'll show ridin' spinnaz in the tab bar when there's ongoing activity (i.e. recent output), a big blue dot if there's new stuff you haven't seen, and a bell icon if there was a bell
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Feb 3, 2018 21:39
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use screen because it is prebuilt and also good. lol if you get hung up on key bindings
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Feb 3, 2018 22:08
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just saw this earnestly posted I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX. Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “Linux”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project. There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called “Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.
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Feb 3, 2018 22:24
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I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/GNU/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU Plus GNU system made useful by the GNU Plus GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX. Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU Plus GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “GNU Plus Linux”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU Plus GNU system, developed by the GNU Plus GNU Project. There really is a GNU Plus Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. GNU Plus Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. GNU Plus Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU Plus GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU Plus GNU with GNU Plus Linux added, or GNU Plus GNU/GNU Plus Linux. All the so-called “GNU Plus Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU Plus GNU/GNU Plus Linux.
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Feb 3, 2018 23:57
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what was the richard copypasta
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Feb 4, 2018 00:07
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cinci zoo sniper posted:just saw this earnestly posted same
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Feb 4, 2018 02:26
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I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU's Not Unix/GNU's Not Unix/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU's Not Unix plus GNU's Not Unix plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU's Not Unix Plus GNU's Not Unix system made useful by the GNU's Not Unix Plus GNU's Not Unix corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX. Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU's Not Unix Plus GNU's Not Unix system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU's Not Unix which is widely used today is often called “GNU's Not Unix Plus Linux”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU's Not Unix Plus GNU's Not Unix system, developed by the GNU's Not Unix Plus GNU's Not Unix Project. There really is a GNU's Not Unix Plus Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. GNU's Not Unix Plus Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. GNU's Not Unix Plus Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU's Not Unix Plus GNU's Not Unix operating system: the whole system is basically GNU's Not Unix Plus GNU's Not Unix with GNU's Not Unix Plus Linux added, or GNU's Not Unix Plus GNU's Not Unix/GNU's Not Unix Plus Linux. All the so-called “GNU's Not Unix Plus Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU's Not Unix Plus GNU's Not Unix/GNU's Not Unix Plus Linux.
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Feb 4, 2018 04:17
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