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Oh yeah another question, is this one of those games that requires you to have a (somewhat) dedicated healer in your party? I like it in RPGs when I can run a buff/debuff-heavy party with some minor healing from a red mage or monk or something, with no dedicated healer (i.e. white mage). say if I wanted to run a party of a monk/foebreaker, red mage/black mage and time mage/something (maybe more monk?) would the lack of a white mage be annoying or is the whole "having two jobs" powerful enough that it's not a problem Your Computer fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Feb 4, 2018 |
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Feb 4, 2018 10:01
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if you aren't doing the hunts, not even. my party in vanilla ff12 was "someone who can cast haste/berserk/brave" and "two characters with really strong weapons"
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Feb 4, 2018 10:08
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Healing I'd say yes, though doesn't have to be done by a white mage - monks and particularly knights can pick up a good amount of healing spells through espers, red mages get white magic by default. And then there's gimmicks like giving all your team elemental absorbing gear to heal them with firaga or shooting burning arrows at them too.
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Feb 4, 2018 10:09
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Wonderful! Maybe I can finally progress in the game  After looking at attack animations (hey it's obviously very important, especially since there are no costumes) this is my revised and hopefully final list Vaan - Shikari / White Mage Penelo - Time Mage / Monk Balthier - Red Mage / Black Mage Fran - Monk / Foebreaker Basch - Bushi / Knight Ashe - Uhlan / Archer although I'm still tempted to make everyone 'monk/second job'
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Feb 4, 2018 10:17
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If you really wanna minmax the dual job system (which the game isn't balanced around at all) you tend to want to pair classes that complement each other instead of stacking more of the same on top of each other. Black mage in particular basically covers you on nuking by itself, so people will pair it with archer or (this is popular) monk for more hitpoints and three swiftness nodes. Because why have a black mage when you can have a fast, tanky black mage who can also heal in a pinch.
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Feb 4, 2018 11:52
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Reiterpallasch posted:If you really wanna minmax the dual job system (which the game isn't balanced around at all) Yeeeah. Honestly, I think the story content is easy as poo poo and it's almost impossible to make a bad party using every class. On my HD playthrough, my every-job party was... Vaan: Shikari/Foebreaker Penelo: White Mage/Monk Balthier: Machinist/Time Mage Fran: Black Mage/Archer Basch: Knight/Samurai Ashe: Red Mage/Uhlan Some of those are inefficient or "bad" combos, but I was fine using any combination of any three people I wanted for any content in the game, basically. Every job is decent or has something to recommend it unto itself, none of them are as lovely as the bad jobs in any other job system game, and almost every one has something to offer the job you pair it with.
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Feb 4, 2018 13:24
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I made a thread for the Dissidia mobile game, if anybody's playing that and wants to talk about it or shoot me stuff to post there or w/e.
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Feb 4, 2018 14:37
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So far my main takeaway from FFXII PC has been damnit square would it kill you to have the sticks control the menu cursor too?
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Feb 4, 2018 14:54
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My job suggestions: Vaan: Shikari / Machanist. Shikari because he's a filthy street rat and he's already respected by nobody. Machanist because hopefully he'll shoot himself in the face by accident. Balthier: Bushi / Red Battlemage. Balthier thinks he's a badass, so of course he's the type to dress like a pimp Red Mage while showing off his super badass katana. Fran: Archer / Knight. Fran's a forest person, and RPG law dictates all forest people are Archers, thus Fran is legally required to be an Archer. Knight because both Knights and Fran are boring. Basch: Time Battlemage / White Mage. Basch was imprisoned for years without giving a gently caress, thus he must naturally be an expert on time manipulation. White Mage because he had to keep himself alive somehow. Ashe: Foebreaker / Monk. Ashe is always pissed off and Berserkers use axes, so Foebreaker is a natural fit for her. Monk because I'd guess she also likes punching people in the face. Penelo: Uhlan / Black Mage. It's Penelo, who cares. Also stop making me want to buy FF12 you jerks, I'm still holding out hope that SE will decide to release all their old poo poo on the Switch.
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Feb 4, 2018 14:58
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I hope someone will mod the PC version to let you zoom out the camera a bit, jeez.
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Feb 4, 2018 15:41
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Ventana posted:Well a game that has mechanics that are deep enough to explore and still be interesting, even for a long time after it's initial release, is a good thing imo. As long as the hidden stuff isn't necessary but still beneficial, that way it can still have depth but not overload people (which apparently some people already got overloaded just from the base game), that's the ideal balance of depth that I like. It is a good thing... I just don't think FF13 did the best job of making it obvious. I'm comparing it to something like say FF5 job systems where the game is very clear about giving you a set of rules you can abuse to do some crazy stuff. Like in FF13 it was turn based but AOE damage was location based? But you can't move characters around freely? And attacks like Blitz could hit the same enemy multiple times, but only with some characters and not others? A consistent approach would have been to call Sazh Blitz and say Lightning Blitz totally different things because it turns out they function so differently. It just felt like it was depth by mistake instead of by design
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Feb 4, 2018 15:47
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Blitz is actually consistent for the other characters, it's just Sazh that's weird where his blitz can do variable damage. And it being obvious or not doesn't really matter if it's not crucially important. Sazh does more damage and it's nice, but it's kinda like FFX Yuna having a higher magic stat than Lulu, where you can notice it and it's good to take advantage of but you don't really need it. Also having aoe damage w/ no freely controlling movement isn't really in the same category as "not obvious", since it uh actually is obvious you can't move around, so that sounds like a different complaint entirely. edit: there's a bunch of things you can say are accidental , but Sazh's Attack and Blitz specifically work differently than others with a very unique animation so I think it's silly to assume they wouldn't have noticed that given a lot of the other little things that they did put in there. They just probably didn't care since Sazh's blitz doesn't really break anything. Animation speeds though, those are probably incidental, but again they probably didn't think of it cause.....it doesn't really matter that much double edit: tbh, when I think about depth and balance of poo poo, the last things I think about are probably "Sazh has a good blitz" so this isn't really an important argument about the game imo Ventana fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Feb 4, 2018 |
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Feb 4, 2018 16:09
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Your Computer posted:Wonderful! Maybe I can finally progress in the game FYI, other jobs do get barehanded as well. I can’t remember which ones and it’s overall not good, but it’s a fun thing for trash mobs.
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Feb 4, 2018 19:16
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MikeJF posted:So far my main takeaway from FFXII PC has been damnit square would it kill you to have the sticks control the menu cursor too? Why the heck would you want to use an analog input to control a digital menu?
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Feb 4, 2018 19:37
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The secret to 12 is that it's fairly easy of grindy. The job system works best imo if you just go with your gut and roll with everything from there. Min max your low level game. (Don't play low level)
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Feb 4, 2018 19:44
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Speaking of 12, if your criteria for assigning jobs is "who has the best attack animations", here's a video that shows them all (timestamps in the comments make it easy to navigate): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pJn96BXo8Y
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Feb 4, 2018 20:02
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Going to repost what I did in the Steam thread to maybe help those of you who are playing the Steam version of FFXII, if you even consider it help, but still.quote:So this is kinda funny, for those playing the Neat huh? How can a 30 GB remaster compress down to 1.2 GBs, when the PS2 version at around 4GBs compresses down to ~3.
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Feb 4, 2018 20:20
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Man I think I can see why people bounced off of FF12. Like you haven't even finished learning all the tutorial stuff yet and the game is like, here you go, all the worst game environments in a row DESERT, SEWER, DUNGEON go!
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Feb 4, 2018 20:38
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DrNutt posted:Man I think I can see why people bounced off of FF12. Like you haven't even finished learning all the tutorial stuff yet and the game is like, here you go, all the worst game environments in a row DESERT, SEWER, DUNGEON go! I'll have you know deserts are my favorite videogame environment and I'd prefer if you didn't besmirch them by equating them to the horrors of the sewer level.
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Feb 4, 2018 20:48
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Deserts are neat and the Garamsythe Waterway is one of the least bad sewer levels out there.
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Feb 4, 2018 20:50
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Well, believe what you want I'm just saying it's not a great look to railroad the player into a couple hours of some of the most bland and uninteresting scenery at the beginning of the game. I love FF12 and played it before so I know better stuff is coming but Nalbina Fortress and Barheim Passage are like yeeesh.
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Feb 4, 2018 21:13
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Better stuff like The Great Crystal.
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Feb 4, 2018 21:15
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I like deserts  Caves can go to hell though If you're worried that infinite gil and license points are somehow not going to overpower you enough for FFXII's steam release, it also has a confusingly-named "new game +" mode which instead of being what new game plus is in literally every other video game ever made, is just a new game where all your characters start at level 90. So good news if you're a cheater, bad news if you wanted to play an actual new game + Ainsley McTree fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Feb 4, 2018 |
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Feb 4, 2018 21:30
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DrNutt posted:Man I think I can see why people bounced off of FF12. Like you haven't even finished learning all the tutorial stuff yet and the game is like, here you go, all the worst game environments in a row DESERT, SEWER, DUNGEON go! It's actually the perfect tutorial because it prepares you for the rest of the bland uninteresting levels in the game.
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Feb 4, 2018 21:33
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Sakurazuka posted:Better stuff like The Great Crystal. It's better. It's just not good. FFXII's dungeon design is some of the most tedious of the PS1-2 era FF games. Lotta repeated hallways/stair ways that go on for two long. The Tomb, Stillshrine, The Lighthouse and the area before getting into the great crystal are prime examples of it and all go on for about 50% way too long where you're fighting the same 3 enemies that die in 3 seconds where you kind of have a lot of repeating floor patterns so the whole thing feels very interesting (And those are kind of all the major dungeons!). Run down the left side in this spiral pattern, okay now do that over here in this mirrored version of it THEN you'll get to actually progress. It's got some slightly better ones. The Sewers actually have something to do in them, the one cave you have to enter from multiple directions to see all of it/connect the sandseas to the estersands is neat! The cave that somehow connects to the middle of the city slums with a big obvious door has something going of for it! I wonder how much of this has to do with the more open world/almost MMO feel they were going for. The dungeons are kind of the closet thing to the FF3 and 4 era designs of mostly nonsensical for plans with a bit of repeating to make the places feel big and sprawling and open, but it loses the crafted touch the dungeons had since then.
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Feb 4, 2018 21:39
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Ainsley McTree posted:Speaking of 12, if your criteria for assigning jobs is "who has the best attack animations", here's a video that shows them all (timestamps in the comments make it easy to navigate): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pJn96BXo8Y I was already set on making Fran the brawler, and her animations with unarmed and poles are really cool. Then again, everyone looks cool with those. Even Penelo, who apparently has almost exclusively floaty and awkward animations. There are probably worse choices I could be making than having two monks though.ROFL Octopus posted:FYI, other jobs do get barehanded as well. I can’t remember which ones and it’s overall not good, but it’s a fun thing for trash mobs. I think my favorite monk job implementation was probably in Bravely Default. Fists always strong, no need to buy weapon, can boost their damage to a ridiculous degree... with the downside of not equipping any weapons, armor or accessories  DrNutt posted:Well, believe what you want I'm just saying it's not a great look to railroad the player into a couple hours of some of the most bland and uninteresting scenery at the beginning of the game. I love FF12 and played it before so I know better stuff is coming but Nalbina Fortress and Barheim Passage are like yeeesh.
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Feb 4, 2018 21:39
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Honestly, I think that as far as desert environments go, ff12 did a decent job. Rabanastre especially conveys the dryness through clothing, palmtrees, and the structures. However, it isn't just a brown city. You've got a contrasting blue sky, colorful banners and store fronts, bright blue water, and healthy green plants. The outer areas are more bland, but they still look and feel different from each other.
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Feb 4, 2018 21:42
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welcome to the sandsea
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Feb 4, 2018 21:43
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Asscreed Origins proved that deserts can be beautiful, but unfortunately also set the bar very high for any other video game
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Feb 4, 2018 22:01
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Ainsley McTree posted:Asscreed Origins proved that deserts can be beautiful, but unfortunately also set the bar very high for any other video game I really like the desert in Mad Max, it can be very pretty at times.
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Feb 4, 2018 22:22
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Your Computer posted:Oh dang, I completely forgot to check for that. Shame to hear it's not that good though. Is it just plain worse than staves at every point or is it more of a "scales badly" situation? Is there any equipment to boost unarmed? I think there is an accessory to boost unarmed damage but it’s the same as the skill on the license board. That is to say, it doesn’t stack but you can still build a team of punchmans. Though yeah, poles are just better and can even hit aerial enemies to boot, so the only reason to punch is for the badass factor. Dragon Quest VIII might be up your alley. Unarmed has some really insane skills and passives in that game.
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Feb 4, 2018 22:30
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luv to walk around bare chested in the desert while my skin gets fried off
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Feb 4, 2018 22:42
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Your Computer posted:Yeah, I found that video and it helped me decide Yeah, even using a staff is better. Monks do get white magic and some defense and stuff I guess?
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Feb 4, 2018 23:03
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Ainsley McTree posted:If you're worried that infinite gil and license points are somehow not going to overpower you enough for FFXII's steam release, it also has a confusingly-named "new game +" mode which instead of being what new game plus is in literally every other video game ever made, is just a new game where all your characters start at level 90. Yah, that's in every version of Zodiac HD, and it's ridiculously lame. An actual NG+ would've been fun and cool in FFXII, especially if it let you do things like unlock 100% of the esper licenses for all your characters by maintaining your progress through the license board. The level 90 thing is the most phoned-in feature I've ever seen. Re: the environments, I thought Rabanastre ruled when I first played the game on PS2. It was the first time a city in an RPG had really felt alive to me, with diverse milling pedestrians everywhere. corn in the bible posted:Yeah, even using a staff is better. Monks do get white magic and some defense and stuff I guess? Monks are one of the best classes in the game. Poles are great weapons, they get a great array of passive licenses, and yeah they get access to all the best white magic eventually.
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Feb 4, 2018 23:06
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ROFL Octopus posted:
I keep meaning to do an unarmed play through of that. Maybe I'll use it as an excuse to grab the 3ds version. Monk in 12 has some synergy with... black mage iirc? Monk has some equipment access that BLM really wants, and it gives your BLM a decent physical backup option. But again, do whatever sounds good, I did 1 of each job mostly to satiate my own ocd about the subject (I partied MCH with WHM for the record). Was it ideal? Not really, but guns don't care about your armor choices and WHM doesn't really need the healing boost from rods imo. I did kinda miss aoe Cure though, that was the real easy mode.
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Feb 4, 2018 23:32
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BrightWing posted:I keep meaning to do an unarmed play through of that. Maybe I'll use it as an excuse to grab the 3ds version. Playable Morrie should be all the excuse anyone needs.
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Feb 4, 2018 23:50
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Just started 15 for the first time, any tips besides what's on the before-I-play wiki? Only FF I ever actually beat was 5, iirc.
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Feb 5, 2018 00:01
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Captain Walker posted:Just started 15 for the first time, any tips besides what's on the before-I-play wiki? Only FF I ever actually beat was 5, iirc. if you warp to a hang point noctis comes back to life. if you can't get into a dungeon that's because the front door opens up at night. there's doors deep inside of the dungeons that you can't open until the post-game. that's pretty much it yeah
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Feb 5, 2018 00:05
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Captain Walker posted:Just started 15 for the first time, any tips besides what's on the before-I-play wiki? Only FF I ever actually beat was 5, iirc. Chocobo and offroad Regalia are totally worth your time. Also, unlock your buddies command abilities. They have really useful poo poo like knockdowns, party heals, etc. Sherry Bahm fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Feb 5, 2018 |
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Feb 5, 2018 00:12
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Learn how to do combos in the air asap. Pretty much a different game with Noctics. Also, Ignis's party heal is pretty much the best ability in the game.
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Feb 5, 2018 00:56
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