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dogsicle posted:my issue is more that it's incredibly insulting to act like the inclusion of gay characters would be pandering 
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Feb 7, 2018 20:33
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dogsicle posted:my issue is more that it's incredibly insulting to act like the inclusion of gay characters would be pandering I'm reading that thread myself now and the argument I see (that I also agree with) is that saying a show is WORSE for not including homosexual relationships is a poor stance for a reviewer or viewer to take. And using a word that is loaded in such a way that it implies the story is saying Homosexuality doesn't exist or isn't desirable, when we're only 4 episodes in, is jumping the gun and disingenuous. We're too few episodes into a 26 episode show to start making value judgements about a show that hasn't really moved beyond three characters in the story. People saying that because the story has themes of sex and sexuality automatically means it needs to include homosexual plotlines otherwise the story is lacking aren't being fair to the potential intentions of the writers, and just how much you can write while only using heterosexual couples as a basis. When Ikuno was given that pep talk by Ichigo, the same day/day after her partner was raving over the intercom about how much better it felt to pilot alongside 002, and how he wouldn't mind having a change of partners. People assumed that was Yuri and not what Ichigo said which is "we're in this together so we need to work together despite that stuff, mistakes could mean death". This contrasts with the previous activation where Ikuno couldn't get enough output to start the mech, the next time they do it both parties get well into the 70% region because they had their respective reality checks. Instead of talking about how partners need to forgive and work with each other, we had two pages here of people reading into the story what really wasn't present in the writing. There's nothing wrong with wanting to see the story explore it's ideas with the widest possible toolset, but at some point people have to look at the show first before they read everything else into it. If the show isn't good on that merit adding anything else will arguably not improve anything.
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Feb 7, 2018 20:47
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Brought To You By posted:People gotta stop holding their enjoyment and engagement of a show hostage if that show doesn't do things they want. I want this show to do what other mecha shows have done and use both child and adult characters to examine their themes. So far this show is only about a bunch of sheltered children being turned into soldiers by the state in incredibly ham-fisted sex powered robots while not understanding the mechanics of sex and relationships themselves. Maybe I get lucky and we introduce a group of older pilots down the line but I doubt it. Maybe this will turn into a 26 episode analogy of the pressures a society that is facing a birth decline puts on it's members to not only perform sexually, but do so for the benefit of the state whether they like their partner or not. Maybe we get a gay relationship and maybe we don't. It's one thing to accept awkwardly blatant references to intercourse and it's another to accept, if the show runs with it, the idea that human beings exist to be bonded with someone of the opposite gender (society approved or not).
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Feb 7, 2018 20:48
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Eej posted:It's one thing to accept awkwardly blatant references to intercourse and it's another to accept, if the show runs with it, the idea that human beings exist to be bonded with someone of the opposite gender (society approved or not). That's fair.
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Feb 7, 2018 20:51
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Brought To You By posted:I'm reading that thread myself now and the argument I see (that I also agree with) is that saying a show is WORSE for not including homosexual relationships is a poor stance for a reviewer or viewer to take. yo this is just a meme, hth.
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Feb 7, 2018 21:02
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It sort of seems like a setup where they test pairings of the pilot candidates would automatically disqualify homosexuals, if those administering the test don't even consider same-sex pilots a possibility.
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Feb 7, 2018 21:54
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I found the format too obnoxious to actually read that review but maybe someone who has can weigh in on if it actually does this without justification cuz lmao
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Feb 7, 2018 21:54
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Leave Japan problems to Japan and American problems to America. The show is probably just gonna go down the route of trying desperately to tell otaku (and general people watching) that relationships don't have to be scary and they can go out and have children. I doubt the show will touch on our American ideas of sexual and emotional diversity (which, while not as big of an issue over there, is still an issue.) but I'll be happy if it does touch on that. I'm actually pretty suprised there's even a show trying to say 'relationships don't have to be forced or scary' with Hiro and 002's actions, considering what Japan's culture has shoved down it's collective throats for centuries. My general hope is that it continues to explore that idea further, and maybe the other characters start finding what makes them work well together, or if not being able to do that, to find who or what matters to them. I'm probably giving this far too much credit for an A1 show though. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 7, 2018 21:55
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Diabetes Forecast posted:Leave Japan problems to Japan and American problems to America. The show is probably just gonna go down the route of trying desperately to tell otaku (and general people watching) that relationships don't have to be scary and they can go out and have children. I doubt the show will touch on our American ideas of sexual and emotional diversity (which, while not as big of an issue over there, is still an issue.) but I'll be happy if it does touch on that. They have gay people in Japan now. Homosexuality isn't just for Americans anymore.
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Feb 7, 2018 21:56
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my bad, i shouldn't force the issue of gay representation on Japanese media, since they don't have any gay citizens
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Feb 7, 2018 22:01
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Diabetes Forecast posted:Leave Japan problems to Japan and American problems to America. The show is probably just gonna go down the route of trying desperately to tell otaku (and general people watching) that relationships don't have to be scary and they can go out and have children. I doubt the show will touch on our American ideas of sexual and emotional diversity (which, while not as big of an issue over there, is still an issue.) but I'll be happy if it does touch on that. "This show is good/okay/bad as a(n uncritically heteronormative) robot love against the man story" and "uncritically heteronormative robot love stories are not good/valuable/doing it for me" are two separate opinions. It's probably even possible to hold both. Also "this show is uncritically heteronormative" is a valid critical observation regardless of origin unless you think homosexuality is a "political" issue.
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Feb 7, 2018 22:04
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dogsicle posted:my bad, i shouldn't force the issue of gay representation on Japanese media, since they don't have any gay citizens
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Feb 7, 2018 22:04
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Feb 7, 2018 22:08
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I made the mistake of looking up A-1's other works. Between Aldnoah Zero and Sword Art Online, I've actually lost all faith that this show will do anything interesting. Oh well. Can't wait for Klaxosaur guns to not actually kill people and nobody gets in a robot anymore after about episode 7 or so. I'm not even sure Trigger could save this one now.
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Feb 7, 2018 22:13
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Lol
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Feb 7, 2018 22:15
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Ranzear posted:I made the mistake of looking up A-1's other works. Between Aldnoah Zero and Sword Art Online, I've actually lost all faith that this show will do anything interesting. Oh well. source your quotes
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Feb 7, 2018 22:15
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Ranzear posted:I made the mistake of looking up A-1's other works. Between Aldnoah Zero and Sword Art Online, I've actually lost all faith that this show will do anything interesting. Oh well. The actual director is a guy named Atsushi Nishigori, who worked on a bunch of stuff, including Gurenn Lagann and Diebuster. The only things he's been the overall director for are the Idolmaster TV show and movie. Nishigori shares writing credit for Darling in the Franxx with Naotaka Hayashi. It looks like the main thing Hayashi did before this was Plastic Memories Neither of them worked on Aldnoah Zero or Sword Art Online
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Feb 7, 2018 22:25
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Ranzear posted:I made the mistake of looking up A-1's other works. Between Aldnoah Zero and Sword Art Online, I've actually lost all faith that this show will do anything interesting. Oh well. On the other hand maybe one of the characters will literally have AIDS
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Feb 7, 2018 22:29
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Ranzear posted:I made the mistake of looking up A-1's other works. Between Aldnoah Zero and Sword Art Online, I've actually lost all faith that this show will do anything interesting. Oh well. Sword Art Online was a light novel adaptation. It's pace and plot structure was mostly dictated by the light novels. However, it's true that elements of its pacing and certain changes would be made by the writers and directors of the anime adaptation, even if they were locked into what the novels did. Sword Art Online has two people listed as director: Morio Asaka, who is most famous for directing cardcaptor sakura and chobits. He isn't working on FRANXX. Tomihiko Itou, who is most famous for directing erased and directing multiple episodes of death note. He isn't working on FRANXX. Sword Art Online also has three people listed under Script/Series Composition. Yukie Sugiwara, who is most famous for writing the Overlord anime. They aren't working on FRANXX. Yukito Kizawa, who wrote several Monogatari episodes and series. He isn't working on FRANXX. Nakamoto Munemasa, who wrote several monogatari episodes and series. He isn't working on FRANXX. Guilty Crown is an anime original, so its writers and staff would have more leeway with the story. Aldnoah Zero has one person listed as director: Aoki Ei, who also directed Fate/Zero, several of the Kara no Kyoukai films, and Wandering Son. He isn't working on FRANXX. Aldnoah Zero has two people listed as script/series composition. Gen Urobuchi, who wrote the original Fate/Zero novels and Madoka Magica. He isn't working on FRANXX. Tamaya Katsuhiko, who's written a ton of anime including Ga-Rei Zero, Ef, FMA 2003, and Baka to Test. He isn't working on FRANXX. You'll notice that several of these people, despite working on sword art online and aldnoah zero, two shows people generally regard as troubled as best and terrible at worst, have almost to a T been involved in stuff that's universally praised and beloved. Why, it's almost like art is a collaboration between a ton of extremely talented individuals and the amount of effort and care it takes to make even a mediocre anime is herculean, and creators have off days, or are working with unsuitable material, or have odd pressures on them, or things just don't work out on screen the way they thought they would on page. Nah, those bastards at A-1 hit the BAD ANIME switch.  Here is a list of every person, in the entire world, who both worked on SAO and is working on Franxx. You'll notice that almost none of them have any involvement on writing or even pacing on either show. The closest would be the two episode directors, who aren't even both episode directors on both SAO and Franxx, but rather one or the other. And even if they were, episode directors aren't writers. They decide how best to execute the allotment of story their episode has based on the storyboards and scripts. They can sometimes contribute minor amounts but they aren't dictating the flow of the story. Why, it's almost as if anime studios are huge, especially large ones like A-1, and having a ridiculous hate-on for them because they made two shows you don't like is ludicrous. Nah, A-1 is clearly a terrible studio who knows nothing! Art has no inherent value unless I can attach a bizarre personification of a corporate entity to it, so I can hate it without even engaging with the art.  Woah, poo poo, never mind, I can see your concern. That guy both voiced an officer AND an ape soldier. How will we ever cope with his obvious corrupting influence?
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Feb 7, 2018 22:38
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dogsicle posted:my issue is more that it's incredibly insulting to act like the inclusion of gay characters would be pandering I have a slight fear that FranXX's EXECUTION of having a gay character could be eye-rolling wank bait or general stereotype pandering and not actually hit on all the potential others have discussed for any sort of homosexuality in this show, but when this series is nothing but sexual tension and overtones, maybe I should just shut the gently caress up inadvertently making GBS threads on the dream of gay franxx. Sorry in advance if that's how even bring that point up feels or reads like.
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Feb 7, 2018 22:43
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pretty much every gay character ever has been accused of being either 'eyerolling wank bait' or 'general stereotype pandering' often by straight 'allies' over the opinions of actual gay people so im not really keen to read that kind of worry as anything but ingenuine even if that's occasionally unfair furthermore there's no gay cabal that decides whether or not a gay character is good or bad, its just people engaging with art and deciding for themselves. i like a lot of depictions of lesbians that others dislike and nobody's wrong or right in that exchange. i think having it be in there and having people be able to have their own opinions on it would be better than just blindly going 'but what if it's bad? (read: it doesnt hit whatever boxes i need it to hit)
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Feb 7, 2018 22:45
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I hope the next episode of this anime is good and there is more mech robot cool moves
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Feb 7, 2018 22:49
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Kashuno posted:I hope the next episode of this anime is good and there is more mech robot cool moves I want Hiro and 002 to kiss more
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Feb 7, 2018 23:01
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I am watching this show for the giant robots and all you motherfuckers with your goddamn sex questions are ruining it for me!!!!!
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Feb 7, 2018 23:13
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Crabtree posted:I have a slight fear that FranXX's EXECUTION of having a gay character could be eye-rolling wank bait or general stereotype pandering and not actually hit on all the potential others have discussed for any sort of homosexuality in this show, but when this series is nothing but sexual tension and overtones, maybe I should just shut the gently caress up inadvertently making GBS threads on the dream of gay franxx. Sorry in advance if that's how even bring that point up feels or reads like. i think there's some small amount of room to worry about whether the show would handle gay characters well but since we haven't even fulfilled the initial requirement of having those characters it feels a bit pointless.
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Feb 7, 2018 23:17
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My personal horse isn't the gay characters (I empathize with it obv) but just that I'm not keen on the "boy is granted power and purpose by free-spirited devoted magically important girlfriend" template. The other characters are keeping it interesting for now but they still mostly revolve around the main boy's love triangle and I'm not convinced they'll take long to fall into formation behind him. I guess the robots are there, too. That part's still fun.
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Feb 7, 2018 23:24
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DisDisDis posted:I found the format too obnoxious to actually read that review but maybe someone who has can weigh in on if it actually does this without justification cuz lmao It's mostly just talking about mech shows that have a sexual focus on some level like Aquarion Evol, Stardriver, Captain Earth; and comparing it to FranXX's presentation. Then the writers (rightfully) pointing out the absurdity of the cockpit designs and some other aspects of the shows visual presentation, and then the last stuff is about representation and the expectation of the writers. Also some concern over 002 representing a "taming" type female character given she has the most energy of the entire cast and is obviously assertive in the relationship's she has with other mech pilots. Honestly if the piece didn't include the word heteronormative the related forum discussion wouldn't have been as populated it seems. The article is nothing really offensive, just two people talking about tits, sex, and desired representation in mech shows. Why the format is like two people texting is beyond me though. It's easy to read but not really preferable to just a regular text document. Shinjobi posted:I am watching this show for the giant robots and all you motherfuckers with your goddamn sex questions are ruining it for me!!!!!
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Feb 7, 2018 23:55
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I don't think they'd really do anything like 'tame' 02 considering how positively her wilder aspects are framed and how her confidence and assertiveness is directly contrasted with ichigo, the girl shown as literally incapable of working with hiro
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Feb 8, 2018 00:01
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Brought To You By posted:It's mostly just talking about mech shows that have a sexual focus on some level like Aquarion Evol, Stardriver, Captain Earth; and comparing it to FranXX's presentation. Then the writers (rightfully) pointing out the absurdity of the cockpit designs and some other aspects of the shows visual presentation, and then the last stuff is about representation and the expectation of the writers. Also some concern over 002 representing a "taming" type female character given she has the most energy of the entire cast and is obviously assertive in the relationship's she has with other mech pilots. The format is literally two separate writers talking about the show. It’s the text equivalent of their discussion podcasts. Courtesy link.
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Feb 8, 2018 00:03
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I don't think they're going to tame 02 because her energy is what makes Hiro go and exists for Hiro's growth. Or if they do "tame" her it'll be to give Hiro something to fight for to get her back. It's not like her being aggressive is a threat to him, it's exactly what he wants.
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Feb 8, 2018 00:04
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Endorph posted:I don't think they'd really do anything like 'tame' 02 considering how positively her wilder aspects are framed and how her confidence and assertiveness is directly contrasted with ichigo, the girl shown as literally incapable of working with hiro I mean, IIRC, creator interviews have described Hiro and 02’s thing as a ‘dark romance’, she’s offering the chance to escape at the cost of abandoning his friends, and she’s spent a not-inconsiderable amount of time robot-loving people to death, so it’s not all sunshine and rainbows.
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Feb 8, 2018 00:05
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The Theme song is called Kiss of Death. I have a feeling there will still be side effects to riding with her even if they are not as prominent as with other people.
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Feb 8, 2018 00:08
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Xelkelvos posted:I really don't think the show would add anything by adding a homosexual couple, at least in and of itself. If it did something interesting with it, maybe. But otherwise it'd just feel like pandering. It'd make a bunch of weird nerds on the internet really mad apparently. So that's a net gain.
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Feb 8, 2018 00:18
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Endorph posted:THIS ISN'T HOW ANIME IS MADE This is the studio that, as far as I watched Aldnoah for exactly this reason, managed to browbeat Tomino away from killin'-em-all. That's why I called it a mistake to look them up. However slightly they may taint their works, I've never enjoyed a single show from A-1.
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Feb 8, 2018 00:36
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Ranzear posted:Right. I was trying to be a little more facetious than that. Still: When a studio has a tendency to output 'safe garbage', I'm gonna expect them to demand 'safe garbage' no matter who's actually doing the work. Uh, this isn't really good posting, so give it a rest.
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Feb 8, 2018 00:37
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Ranzear posted:This is the studio that, as far as I watched Aldnoah for exactly this reason, managed to browbeat Tomino away from killin'-em-all. Aldnoah had nothing to do with Tomino. It was "created by" Gen Urobuchi, and he only wrote the concept and first three episodes.
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Feb 8, 2018 00:46
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Darth Walrus posted:I mean, IIRC, creator interviews have described Hiro and 02’s thing as a ‘dark romance’, she’s offering the chance to escape at the cost of abandoning his friends, and she’s spent a not-inconsiderable amount of time robot-loving people to death, so it’s not all sunshine and rainbows. Ranzear posted:Right. I was trying to be a little more facetious than that. Still: When a studio has a tendency to output 'safe garbage', I'm gonna expect them to demand 'safe garbage' no matter who's actually doing the work. Im trying not to get mad here but literally none of this is how anything works. For starters tomino hasnt 'killed them all' since before a1 even existed. And a1 has way more than 'safe garbage' in their library even if studios *were* monoliths. Birdy the mighty decode is a masterpiece of both action and character drama in its second season, sora no woto is an affecting little moodpiece, anohana is a little overwrought but has very effective emotional climaxes, idolmaster is very funny and gorgeously animated even if some of its drama falls flat, cinderella girls has amazing character moments even if it has too many characters, occult academy and nanana are really underrated comedies with amazing female leads. You watched two bad shows from a studio then decided they could never make anything good regardless of staff. Thats moronic. Im sorry, but it is. Youre boiling down art made by hundreds of people into dumb internet culture value judgments based off literally nothing but your own misinformation. Endorph fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Feb 8, 2018 |
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Feb 8, 2018 00:49
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Wait, tomino hasnt even done a show at a1
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Feb 8, 2018 00:50
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dogsicle posted:i think there's some small amount of room to worry about whether the show would handle gay characters well but since we haven't even fulfilled the initial requirement of having those characters it feels a bit pointless. So shut the gently caress up crabtree it is then. 
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Feb 8, 2018 00:50
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Endorph posted:Wait, tomino hasnt even done a show at a1 Pretty sure they meant Urobuchi, his name was put on the project for profile and from what I remember of the time it worked even though he wasn't the main writer.
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Feb 8, 2018 00:54
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