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Feb 8, 2018 22:51
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Andy Dufresne posted:I think I've made it clear that I think blockchain is useless but it doesn't even matter. Discussions about the usefulness of blockchain don't belong in bitcoin or altcoin speculation threads because this isn't how software development, procurement, or ownership works. There are no licensing fees for blockchain and you can't invest in it. If a company leverages it to dominate a market they will be 100% privately owned. I love how Ol' Ham Sammiches forgot to respond to this post.... What's your response buddy boy?
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Feb 8, 2018 23:01
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Pokey Araya posted:I love how Ol' Ham Sammiches forgot to respond to this post.... What's your response buddy boy? He posted his opinion on Blockchain, in a post not addressed to me, why exactly do you think that I should respond to it? That's what he thinks of Blockchain. He's entitled to his beliefs. the NIST guide is a pretty good summary of Blockchain and there's a decent reference to link people when they ask about it in the future
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Feb 8, 2018 23:04
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https://twitter.com/giancarloCFTC/status/961612907732783104
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Feb 8, 2018 23:05
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Vargatron posted:a history of obstinate arguments on such subjects as Starcraft 2, XCOM 
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Feb 8, 2018 23:13
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Look at how many times HS has deferred a discussion on several topics in the last two pages.
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Feb 8, 2018 23:14
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Is this a satan? 
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Feb 8, 2018 23:20
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Ham Sandwiches posted:Why is it that you're claiming that's my argument, and you've decided to express it for me, when that's not what I feel? Because it was a common theme in your posts during the price run up that bitcoins aren't a scam because the price was "appreciating". Ham Sandwiches posted:"I'm not wrong" repeats guy that claims BTC are a lovely scam as they keep appreciating and gaining in acceptance But it doesn't matter because widely-accepted deflationary currency and zero-scarcity stores of value are oxymorons. The news that major retailers dropped bitcoin didn't even cause the price to wiggle because the value of bitcoins is determined entirely by irrational speculation and bitcoins are a scam.
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Feb 8, 2018 23:23
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https://twitter.com/R3D_5T4R/status/961411199941345280
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Feb 8, 2018 23:54
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so owns
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Feb 8, 2018 23:56
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https://twitter.com/edballs/status/63623585020915713?lang=en
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Feb 8, 2018 23:57
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It's worth noting that 99.9etc% of the news about stores accepting btc were wrong. It was a third party company that would mostly-invisibly sell the buyer a gift card to the store, then the buyer would just automatically use the gift card for the purchase. The actual stores never touched the poop
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Feb 8, 2018 23:57
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As a spectator in this thread (and to cryptocurrency in general), I just want to comment that the pretend bisexual teen girl millionaire was a lot more entertaining than Ham Sandwiches.
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Feb 8, 2018 23:58
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Sentient Data posted:It's worth noting that 99.9etc% of the news about stores accepting btc were wrong. It was a third party company that would mostly-invisibly sell the buyer a gift card to the store, then the buyer would just automatically use the gift card for the purchase. The actual stores never touched the poop lmao it seems like buttcoin is best suited for being used as an exchange token for gift cards
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Feb 9, 2018 00:01
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I'll give you 10 dollars for that text file! *looks over shoulder* No, make that 12 dollars!!
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Feb 9, 2018 00:01
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When I made this thread I was starting to wonder if the true believers were right. At that time I felt that Ham Sandwiches had at least some merit. But as time passed I grew to see things much more clearly and see that HS is like a crazy person who doesn't know he is crazy. But with bitcoin. He seems like a good guy. Just infected with cryptoshit.
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Feb 9, 2018 00:09
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Waltzing Along posted:When I made this thread I was starting to wonder if the true believers were right. At that time I felt that Ham Sandwiches had at least some merit. But as time passed I grew to see things much more clearly and see that HS is like a crazy person who doesn't know he is crazy. But with bitcoin. hes probably in his early 20's, ripe for being convinced of wrongthink. Just when he was starting to figure out the world, someone came and took a dump in his brain with bitcoin garbage and anti-vaxxing poo poo, except he was slightly rational enough to not go full blown anti-vax retard because he must also have a diet of sane information or decent parents/friends.
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Feb 9, 2018 00:20
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Feb 9, 2018 00:20
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Guys I don't think that BepisCoin article is real I can't find it anywhere.
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Feb 9, 2018 00:27
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Hey everyone, I wanted to let everyone know I have a thread in the SA mart right now. I'm selling rare text files that are cryptographicly guaranteed to be unique. All you have to do to get one is send me 10 dollars, where you went to school when you grew up, your birthday, and the last 4 digits of your phone number. Then, I'll take this data and create a SHA256 hash out of it, and then give you a text file with the cryptographic "token" that uniquely enshrines your data and life in an impossible to destroy monument. The best part is that these unique tokens will be fully tradable with other users of my service, and the value is almost certain to go up. For 15 dollars I will upgrade any user to SHA512, and for only .99 cents you can chose any of the default windows fonts for your file! Hurry, because supplies are limited!
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Feb 9, 2018 00:27
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Feb 9, 2018 00:41
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Andy Dufresne posted:The point I'm trying to make (which I may not have actually stated) is that if there were any use we would see it. I don't think it's possible to prove that something is useless, but as time goes on and nothing useful is developed the likelihood complete uselessness approaches 100%. Adar posted:I live in the UK with family in the US. When I want to send money to them and back, my options are a bank wire (3-5% or worse currency conversion + a 3-4 business day wait), or something like https://www.abra.com that charges about a fifth of that or less and sends instantly by using buttcoins instead of SWIFT. I can also do it myself and skip the middleman if I'm willing to stomach several hours of exposure to BTC or ETH price fluctuations. Blockchains are almost certainly worse than current solutions for the vast majority of claimed use cases, but 'useless' is a very strong word. In online gaming, blockchains are a significant upgrade over the status quo, because that use case is exactly what people want from an online casino - a game that is provably not cheating the player and a business where every account has been provably KYC'd (and that completely cuts out payment processors, which can charge up to 20-30% on a deposit in some higher risk places) is a big deal. Cross-border money transmission is a multi billion dollar industry and Western Union is awful, so that's another one - again, freely admitting that this has nothing to do with the price of the currency and you could do this with any coin that has a fiat gateway regardless of its worth. I'm not going to defend proof of work or most of the other features bolted on a proof of concept that accidentally got billions thrown at it. The idea that blockchain itself is worthless for *anything*, however, died with the strawberry miner cavemen.
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Feb 9, 2018 00:58
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Ham Sandwiches posted:He posted his opinion on Blockchain, in a post not addressed to me, why exactly do you think that I should respond to it? That's what he thinks of Blockchain. He's entitled to his beliefs. Buy some bitcoins while they are cheap, you fuckwit.
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Feb 9, 2018 00:59
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When I was living in Deutschland people could transfer me USD to EUR by just sending money to my German PayPal account. If they hit 'friends/family' there were 0 transfer fees and the exchange rate was fair. Took like, a business day. This was years ago, like around when the Cyprus banking stuff went down, so I can't imagine it is anything but easier nowadays?
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Feb 9, 2018 01:05
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Moridin920 posted:When I was living in Deutschland people could transfer me USD to EUR by just sending money to my German PayPal account. If they hit 'friends/family' there were 0 transfer fees and the exchange rate was fair. Took like, a business day. https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/cross-border-and-conversion-fees https://www.currencyfair.com/blog/avoid-paypal-hidden-fees-for-international-money-transfers/ It depends on where you are and what you're doing, but generally, you will always get ripped off to some unavoidable degree. Paypal fees are a lot higher than most. The best non-crypto option is Transferwise, which is almost reasonable but still percentage based.
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Feb 9, 2018 01:14
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Adar posted:Blockchains are almost certainly worse than current solutions for the vast majority of claimed use cases, but 'useless' is a very strong word. In online gaming, blockchains are a significant upgrade over the status quo, because that use case is exactly what people want from an online casino - a game that is provably not cheating the player and a business where every account has been provably KYC'd (and that completely cuts out payment processors, which can charge up to 20-30% on a deposit in some higher risk places) is a big deal. I'm a regular twoplustwo poster, I've seen the distributed poker proof of concept. It's a neat idea, currently garbage because it turns out people don't want to write complex software for free. Both of your ideas are firmly tied to imaginary money which is where they fail for me. My post was about non crypto-currency applications of blockchain. Edit to add: Also, I don't really understand two of the replies I've gotten. My argument is that we'd need to see something useful utilizing the blockchain to prove its worth (and the clock has been ticking for a while). The replies are "well it could be used for this". Well, let's see it used for that with a reasonable adoption rate. The idea of a voting audit on the blockchain is probably the only convincing use case I've seen yet. Andy Dufresne fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 01:17
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Sentient Data posted:It's worth noting that 99.9etc% of the news about stores accepting btc were wrong. It was a third party company that would mostly-invisibly sell the buyer a gift card to the store, then the buyer would just automatically use the gift card for the purchase. The actual stores never touched the poop There is a deli near my house that claims to accept Etherium as a payment method on their sign. I assume this is what they're doing.
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Feb 9, 2018 01:22
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Andy Dufresne posted:I'm a regular twoplustwo poster, I've seen the distributed poker proof of concept. It's a neat idea, currently garbage because it turns out people don't want to write complex software for free. Poker is the worst application for blockchain in the space - not impossible but much harder than everything else and some of the problems may wind up insurmountable. Player vs house games are considerably easier and the teams working on them are in a much better position. Not sure why you’d make that distinction - a use case is a use case, especially when not tied to the value of the crypto. I would understand the objection a lot more if it required the underlying chain to be worth something, but it doesn’t. You could theoretically run an online casino on a blockchain without using crypto for payments at all if so inclined, just taking payments and cashing players out as normal but running the RNG on the chain for audit purposes; that would remove a tangible benefit but it would work.
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Feb 9, 2018 01:31
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Lawfare blog on Tether https://lawfareblog.com/another-cryptocurrency-target-us-regulators-tether Very good from as an examination of the criminal angle of tether and Bitfinex. I only have one gripe. quote:It also says it will redeem Tethers for U.S. dollars on demand. It literally says in the TOS that if they don't feel like it, they won't.
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Feb 9, 2018 01:35
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every ponzi scheme promises that you can take your money out whenever you want the grift is that pretty much no one actually does because just that statement is reassurance enough for them then there's like 3 out of the bunch who think they are slick and 'test' the scheme by withdrawing and ofc the grifter pays them out no problem, then 2 of them jump right back in now that the trust is 'proven.' A lot of them even involve 'dividend' payouts so now you're MLMing for them going 'I get $5k every MONTH  you should take a mortgage out and send the cash to this guy also and be rich like me.'
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Feb 9, 2018 01:36
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We already have ways to audit gaming software. The point of the distributed poker application is that it enforces the rules, including the exchange of funds. That means cryptocurrency. If you're going to exchange dollars outside of the application there's no point. In any case I'm not going to debate theoretical applications of blockchain. It's the idea man problem, there are a thousand steps between idea and viable application.
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Feb 9, 2018 01:39
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InternetJunky posted:Isn't the blockchain the underlying tech behind all cryptocurrencies? If the blockchain can't scale to handle volumes you might see from a regular currency then it's ultimately going to be useless or extremely limited, isn't it? Someone did the math a while ago. If Bitcoin would have to handle just the the transactions that VISA handles on a daily basis. It would take the amount of energy the whole USA uses in a day, the Ledger would grow to PETABYTE size within a year and It would take months a for a transaction to verify. Bitcoin – 3-4 transactions per second Visa – 1,667 transaction per second estimated from an average of 150 million transaction each day.  
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Feb 9, 2018 01:54
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Risc1911 posted:It would take the amount of energy the whole USA uses in a day Actually, it wouldn't affect energy usage at all. Bitcoin's energy usage scales with the number of miners, not the number of users or the transaction load. Increase it to a million per second or decrease it to zero, and the energy usage won't budge in the slightest, because it is 99.99% wasted busywork in the first place.
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Feb 9, 2018 02:05
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Moddington posted:Actually, it wouldn't affect energy usage at all. Bitcoin's energy usage scales with the number of miners, not the number of users or the transaction load. Increase it to a million per second or decrease it to zero, and the energy usage won't budge in the slightest, because it is 99.99% wasted busywork in the first place. That was assuming they would be able to verify the amount of transactions VISA does, which would need more miners.
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Feb 9, 2018 02:10
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Moddington posted:Actually, it wouldn't affect energy usage at all. Bitcoin's energy usage scales with the number of miners, not the number of users or the transaction load. Increase it to a million per second or decrease it to zero, and the energy usage won't budge in the slightest, because it is 99.99% wasted busywork in the first place. Except the price would increase with more buyers and the price increase makes it more profitable to mine for the rewards which means more miners spending more electricity. That's how it scaled to using country level electricity use, and there's no reason it wouldn't continue to do the same thing in the forseeable future.
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Feb 9, 2018 02:37
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https://twitter.com/officialmcafee/status/961662994374692864
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Feb 9, 2018 02:50
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Network total power usage can increase essentially without limit, while transaction capability remains capped at ~7 per second.
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Feb 9, 2018 02:52
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Had to click tweet to see if it was real. It is. Makes sense as this is about crypto. Also this is almost exactly how that swatting incident happened lol
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Feb 9, 2018 03:12
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Here's the real world usage case for blockchain: Distributing legal liability for maintaining records of black market transactions.
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Feb 9, 2018 03:24
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In case you would like to take up mr McAfee on his offer. https://twitter.com/officialmcafee/status/961765313644810240
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Feb 9, 2018 03:26
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