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pseudodragon posted:So how badly has Vegas screwed over team 32? Can’t imagine them getting the same expansion draft rules with how well he Knights have done. team 32 is probably going to be paying 20% more of an expansion fee than the $500m vegas paid just to get in the game. itd be really dumb if they didnt get at least as friendly expansion draft rules
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Feb 9, 2018 19:17
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I guess the other point is that everything that helped out vegas was teams' GMs doing stupid poo poo, and you can't really legislate that out. they only have themselves to blame for managing to trade away assets and lose JAM, etc.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:18
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grack posted:You're absolutely delusional if you think a new coach is going to make New York any better. You can complain all you want about misusing players or whatever the gently caress but it doesn't get past the issue that the Rangers' roster simply isn't very good. Any other coach would try to make changes when they are giving up 30+ shots every night and often give up 10-20 more shot attempts then they take. But this is the coach who, early in the season with a healthy roster, iced a team with seven defensemen and three centers. I think he even went with 8D one game.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:18
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rags can have Rick tocchet when we're done with him
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Feb 9, 2018 19:24
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and the Rangers just called up Gilmore which is either because they needed/wanted 7 D with Staal injured or something else is going on e: Staal on IR it sounds like Levitate fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 19:24
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HootTheOwl posted:He's going to end up in Chicago as management decides we were just one heathy Crawford away. Hank and Sharpie on the same team? 
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Feb 9, 2018 19:38
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Zodijackylite posted:Any other coach would try to make changes when they are giving up 30+ shots every night and often give up 10-20 more shot attempts then they take. Yet again, you absolutely refuse to address the salient point: New York has an awful roster. They have two worthwhile centres, two left wingers and three defensemen, and that may be generous. Rangers fans love to bitch, whine and moan about Buchnevich not being given top line minutes, but the reality is that right wing is the only position where New York actually has depth. Maybe you could argue he should be played ahead of Nash but he sure as poo poo shouldn't be played ahead of Zuccarello. He also gets just as much PP time as Nash or Zuccarello, so he's certainly getting time to produce. I mean christ, you complain about AV *only* icing three centres when New York only has two centres worth a poo poo to begin with.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:42
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Nah. AV loving sucks. Regardless of roster.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:43
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There's no coach in the league that makes the Rangers better than they are.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:45
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Vegas seems ripe for a first round loss. Play balls to the wall, over your head all season and then the Playoff teams with actual 1st liners start kicking it into a higher gear. They're undoubtedly getting a Central team too, which will be more trouble than the 2/3 teams in the Pacific face in round one.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:46
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grack posted:There's no coach in the league that makes the Rangers better than they are. I still don't want him around to develop a rebuild.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:46
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Levitate posted:yeah for sure the roster is an issue but looking beyond just results and to their actual play....there's really no reason this team should be getting blown out time and time again all year long and only have 1 stretch of time where that didn't happen because their goaltenders bailed them out over and over. The on ice play has just been...suspect, lets say. AV is working with what he's got by trying to get the players he has to play a system that they can't execute properly, rather than working out a system that fits the players better. They’re getting blown out because they have basically 2 lines even when healthy. DD wasn’t cutting it on Montreal’s 4th line and he is our 3C in a best case scenario. Our 4C has been a revolving door of AHLers. I really think this was a hold your breath and hope we can make it to next season year after the Stepan Trade. Unfortunately the levee broke. We can Monday quarterback the poo poo out of this and I don’t think we’re finding a solution to fix the bad play in the start of the year or the possession woes even with all the hindsight we have now. The other thing is this roster was designed (not this year specifically but over the AV reign) to suit AV’s system. Quick puck moving team with speed. It worked the past several years, we were near the top of the league in scoring for a lot of years. Unfortunately due to the cap situation and general environment they decided they needed to try and “retool on the fly” and it blew up in our face. Turns out retooling on the fly is hard. That being said the remnants of this roster is still built to suit AV. If for example Sutter comes in, he’ll probably find these guys don’t work for his system at all. tl;dr I think the losing is a function of the roster construction and not the coach or system. Left to its own devices the team would be better next year regardless of who is coaching. e: annnnd Grack beat me.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:49
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It's going to be interesting to see how Vegas handles March, where they have no two day breaks and end with a back to back.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:50
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Vegas getting into the playoffs at all looked like an absolute pipe dream from the start, so them getting in is a massive victory in and of itself. Who gives a gently caress if they don't go beyond that
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Feb 9, 2018 19:53
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Mike_V posted:Vegas seems ripe for a first round loss. Play balls to the wall, over your head all season and then the Playoff teams with actual 1st liners start kicking it into a higher gear. They're undoubtedly getting a Central team too, which will be more trouble than the 2/3 teams in the Pacific face in round one. Also, if the Vegas Flu is for reals, I don’t expect it to be much of an issue in the playoffs. It’ll be an interesting test re: whether depth can overcome lack of star power, though. I’m not sure I’d bet against Vegas in the 1st round just yet because some of the teams they face don’t have a lot of high end talent, either. I could see Dallas overpowering Vegas but I would probably not pick LA, Colorado, or Minnesota to do the same.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:54
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Aphrodite posted:It I coached the Rangers they'd have more than 2 regulation wins this year.  In case it happens.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:58
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nashville lost a while back because of the scottsdale flu of all things
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Feb 9, 2018 19:58
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Matt Zerella posted:I still don't want him around to develop a rebuild. I'm usually the first to pile on the "AV is actually great" bandwagon, but I'm with you there. He doesn't strike me as a rebuild coach in the slightest. He's a crafty, methodical tactician who gets the most out his players, I don't consider him a great developer of young talent. There's also the side to consider that AV probably doesn't want to be part of a rebuild. He's built a reputation as a top tier coach and has been in the playoffs pretty much every season of his career. I'm not sure he'd want to stick around for five years coaching a bad team to a 26th place finish. He'll probably wait until an opening for a team like Washington, San Jose or Anaheim comes available and jump on that.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:59
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Devils are playing Quenneville tomorrow so that's cool. They need the scoring depth with MoJo/Gibbons out.
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Feb 9, 2018 20:06
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I think if AV is given the mandate of build for the future instead of win now a lot of what some of you guys hate goes away. Buchnevich for example is probably no longer constantly moving to the 4th line. Also this is probably me being blindly optimistic but I don’t think it’s five years till we’re back in the playoffs (I guess it depends on just how far they burn it down I suppose). Chytil and Andersson fix A LOT of problems, unfortunately they just aren’t quite there yet. The biggest question to me is the D, and of course plugging whatever holes the sell off leaves.
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Feb 9, 2018 20:09
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Jovial Cow posted:They’re getting blown out because they have basically 2 lines even when healthy. DD wasn’t cutting it on Montreal’s 4th line and he is our 3C in a best case scenario. Our 4C has been a revolving door of AHLers. Eh, I've seen teams with worse rosters be harder to play against. Roster is a big part of why they're losing but you can be a bad team that at least competes. quote:I really think this was a hold your breath and hope we can make it to next season year after the Stepan Trade. Unfortunately the levee broke. We can Monday quarterback the poo poo out of this and I don’t think we’re finding a solution to fix the bad play in the start of the year or the possession woes even with all the hindsight we have now. I agree that this season was basically hoping that they'd manage to fly over the top of the holes in the roster and it didn't work out. The Rangers have been a poor possession team basically since AV came here though, it's by design. quote:The other thing is this roster was designed (not this year specifically but over the AV reign) to suit AV’s system. Quick puck moving team with speed. It worked the past several years, we were near the top of the league in scoring for a lot of years. Unfortunately due to the cap situation and general environment they decided they needed to try and “retool on the fly” and it blew up in our face. Turns out retooling on the fly is hard. I mean part of my issue is that they've actually been getting slower and slower. No one talks about the Rangers as a fast upbeat team anymore. Sure part of that was losing guys like Hagelin, but when the only thing fast about your game is that you occasionally throw the puck down the ice for Grabner or Kreider to chase, you're not actually a fast team. And that all has been changing over several years, not just this year. They're also slow on the forecheck, their slow on the rush, they've slowed down their game a lot since the 2014-2015 days. Is it just the players? Probably plays a part, like I said Hagelin going certainly left a lot of speed out, but the Rangers are also very consciously slowing the play down offensively and being cautious with their forechecking. quote:That being said the remnants of this roster is still built to suit AV. If for example Sutter comes in, he’ll probably find these guys don’t work for his system at all. I'm honestly not sure who is suited to play AV's system at this point. You get a team of skating mobile puck moving defensemen and they all struggle, no one can pick up the system defensively, etc. I'm not sure anymore what makes someone suited to play his system because we haven't seen anyone able to do it well for several years now. quote:tl;dr I think the losing is a function of the roster construction and not the coach or system. Left to its own devices the team would be better next year regardless of who is coaching. I'm probably putting more emphasis on the coaching because I'm frustrated with a lot of stuff I see as systematic issues, and other people might not agree. The roster needs to be better. It probably won't be next season but the hope is that they'll get some young talented players in the lineup. I am however not sure why people just throw up their hands and say "the coach is faultless and perfect and it's all on the players!" I think AV is a good coach with the right roster but the Rangers haven't had that roster for several years now e: and man I said this at the beginning of the year and I'll say it now, if AV would just change his loving defensive system I'd probably a lot more lenient towards him at this point because it's always been super easy to get a ton of shots against the Rangers but teams have been getting better and better at exploiting his system and I'm really not sure what they gain by running it at this point. Plenty of other teams don't run that system but can break the puck out with speed and counter attack just fine. Levitate fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 20:10
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hifi posted:nashville lost a while back because of the scottsdale flu of all things Well that flu was extra bad because Trotz decided to revenge-scratch two of their best offensive players for two home games and then the team only scored 2 goals in those 2 games.
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Feb 9, 2018 20:22
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T-Bone posted:Devils are playing Quenneville tomorrow so that's cool. They need the scoring depth with MoJo/Gibbons out. He played well yesterday.
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Feb 9, 2018 20:30
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Good on Gorton for kicking off the rebuild, was weird seeing them flip Stepan for futures at the draft and then signing the biggest UFA on the market days later. Don’t think I’ve ever seen NYR “rebuild” since I’ve been watching hockey, super interested to see who they keep to build around.
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Feb 9, 2018 20:38
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I think it’s possible that the draft for Seattle/Team 32 under the same rules might not be quite as favourable as Vegas had it, if only because they benefitted from some cap and roster crunches that have since been alleviated (by Vegas). It might take a little while for GMs to screw up their rosters bad enough to give away guys like Fleury/Neal/Schmidt again. Or good players could always be available because GMs are idiots and nobody does talent evaluation well, whatever.
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Feb 9, 2018 20:47
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Remember when people used to be worried about expansion causing "talent dilution?" Does anyone feel like that has happened? IMO there are enough mediocre/marginal NHL-level players around and coaching and goaltending is generally good enough that the NHL could probably have several more teams without seeing a ton of obvious difference but also that is a shame because watching good players clown scrubs is enjoyable.
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Feb 9, 2018 21:03
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Pierre LeBrun is suggesting the CBJ can get a late 1st for JMFJ and wonders if they may immediately flip that 1st with other pieces for a forward. Darren Dreger apparently says Tampa may willing to spend a 1st on JMFJ or Mike Green. Let's do it. 
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Feb 9, 2018 21:08
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Thufir posted:Remember when people used to be worried about expansion causing "talent dilution?" Does anyone feel like that has happened? IMO there are enough mediocre/marginal NHL-level players around and coaching and goaltending is generally good enough that the NHL could probably have several more teams without seeing a ton of obvious difference but also that is a shame because watching good players clown scrubs is enjoyable. talent is better distributed now than it used to be. i think it's going to force coaches to adapt, and utilize players they might not have before (tiny men, glass cannons, anyone who just has one Real Good Trick and are passable elsewhere, etc). I think the amount of NHL-level talent available to these teams is higher than the amount of roster spots in the league, and guys who could probably shine if moved one line/pairing up will get those opportunities when Seattle moves in.
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Feb 9, 2018 21:20
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Thufir posted:Remember when people used to be worried about expansion causing "talent dilution?" Does anyone feel like that has happened? IMO there are enough mediocre/marginal NHL-level players around and coaching and goaltending is generally good enough that the NHL could probably have several more teams without seeing a ton of obvious difference but also that is a shame because watching good players clown scrubs is enjoyable. Even if you assume talent dilution is A Thing, the average depth guy now is leagues better than the average depth guy pre-expansion and its not particularly close. Dead puck grinders suuuuuucked. NHL32 should be fine as long as their coach/GM combo isn't like, Bergevin/Carlyle
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Feb 9, 2018 21:29
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Why wouldn't the league want another successful expansion team? This new team is a free $650m. If Vegas wins the cup and Seattle succeeds, then the dreams of $1b for expansion to Quebec might happen.
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Feb 9, 2018 21:33
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Talent dilution has been a stupid lie for decades. I would have believed it when the league doubled in size and players came from Canada and maybe 2 US states but not since the fall of the Iron Curtain
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Feb 9, 2018 21:58
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Hey RAS, on the plus side Andersson got a goal and two assists against bridgeport the other day with the goal being his first for the wolf pack.
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Feb 9, 2018 22:05
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The GM Jeff Gorton did know Can't continue this farce of a show no chance of a cup just blow it all up FIRESALE EVERYTHING MUST GO Rotten Cookies fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 22:21
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Jovial Cow posted:Hey RAS, on the plus side Andersson got a goal and two assists against bridgeport the other day with the goal being his first for the wolf pack. Chytiljuice had a goal too IIRC.
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Feb 9, 2018 22:27
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Joel Edmundson out six weeks with a broken forearm. Not a critical loss, but still hurts. Hopefully we get to see Jake Walman called up and not the corpse of Chris Butler once again. This was the first game the Blue blew out their opponent in a while, last one was against Detroit, the same game where Jaden Schwartz was lost for 6 weeks and Pietrangelo was out for a little bit. Stop winning big is the message, I guess.
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Feb 9, 2018 22:31
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with all the whinging from RAS I figured the rangers must be totally out of it they're 3 points out of a wildcard spot and 7 points out of their division's top 3 if your GM was benning you'd be buying for sure
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Feb 9, 2018 22:54
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grack posted:There's no coach in the league that makes the Rangers better than they are. That's why me, an outsider, can really fix things.
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Feb 9, 2018 22:57
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JawKnee posted:with all the whinging from RAS I figured the rangers must be totally out of it The metro has been garbage lately and they have 2 regulation wins in the last 18 or 19 games. Even if they make it in, they're first round fodder and I'm glad they're selling.
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Feb 9, 2018 22:58
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Aphrodite posted:That's why me, an outsider, can really fix things. Well, I was thinking more along the lines of Barry Melrose or Mike Keenan.
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Feb 9, 2018 23:04
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Matt Zerella posted:The metro has been garbage lately and they have 2 regulation wins in the last 18 or 19 games. Even if they make it in, they're first round fodder and I'm glad they're selling. To emphasize this point, I think Pittsburgh is the only team over .500 in the last 10.
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Feb 9, 2018 23:05
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