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DrVenkman
Dec 28, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.
So, let us not forget about Michael Fassbender who seemingly lucked out because the claims against him came before he was famous enough for people to take notice: https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-shocking-abuse-allegations-against-michael-fassbender?via=twitter_page

Also, Rose McGowan commented on her former manager's suicide and did so with a total lack of awareness, but here's a general piece of Jill Messick and the sad impact of online hate mobs: https://www.thedailybeast.com/was-mean-girls-producer-jill-messick-shamed-into-suicide

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-Blackadder-
Jan 2, 2007

Game....Blouses.

DrVenkman posted:

Also, Rose McGowan commented on her former manager's suicide and did so with a total lack of awareness, but here's a general piece of Jill Messick and the sad impact of online hate mobs: https://www.thedailybeast.com/was-mean-girls-producer-jill-messick-shamed-into-suicide

Here's another really good article I read a while back on Internet Public Shaming Mobs. It's a fascinating retelling of the events surrounding that one infamous woman who told the Africa AIDS joke on twitter.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007

-Blackadder- posted:

Here's another really good article I read a while back on Internet Public Shaming Mobs. It's a fascinating retelling of the events surrounding that one infamous woman who told the Africa AIDS joke on twitter.

the full book version of this (So You've Been Publicly Shamed) is a pretty good and quick read

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours

-Blackadder- posted:

Here's another really good article I read a while back on Internet Public Shaming Mobs. It's a fascinating retelling of the events surrounding that one infamous woman who told the Africa AIDS joke on twitter.

I've always found this grimly funny because her life was "ruined" because she was in PR, and an executive no less. The whole incident climaxing with Ted Talks and poo poo like that is a perfect illustration of how useless and parasitic public relations is.

jet sanchEz
Oct 24, 2001

Lousy Manipulative Dog
I think the Michael Haneke article should be read before you guys judge him.

the Austrian filmmaker said there is no question that “any form of rape or coercion is punishable… But this hysterical pre-judgment which is spreading now, I find absolutely disgusting. And I don’t want to know how many of these accusations related to incidents 20 or 30 years ago are primarily statements that have little to do with sexual assault.”

allowed he would probably be referred to as “Haneke, the male chauvinist pig” after making the comments in the interview. He qualified his statements saying the current debate is disturbing because of “the blind rage that’s not based on facts and the prejudices that destroy the lives of people whose crime has not been proved in numerous cases. People are simply assassinated in the media, ruining lives and careers.”

He noted that Nagisa Ôshima’s film In The Realm Of The Senses, which he calls “one of the deepest and most profound on the subject of sexuality,” could not be made today “because the funding institutions would not allow this, anticipating obedience to this terror. Suspected actors are cut out of movies and TV series in order not to lose (audiences). Where are we living? In the new Middle Ages?”

Haneke stressed that “this has nothing to do with the fact that every sexual assault and all violence — whether against women or men — should be condemned and punished. But the witch hunt should be left in the Middle Ages.”

LesterGroans
Jun 9, 2009

It's funny...

You were so scary at night.
Still silly.

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."


"People will stop making movies with sex in them anymore for fear of being persecuted" lmao do all these guys read from the same script?

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours
That's such a European sensibility, so weird to be concerned that people won't find rape on film sexy anymore or whatever.

Vegetable
Oct 22, 2010

jet sanchEz posted:

I think the Michael Haneke article should be read before you guys judge him.

the Austrian filmmaker said there is no question that “any form of rape or coercion is punishable… But this hysterical pre-judgment which is spreading now, I find absolutely disgusting. And I don’t want to know how many of these accusations related to incidents 20 or 30 years ago are primarily statements that have little to do with sexual assault.”

allowed he would probably be referred to as “Haneke, the male chauvinist pig” after making the comments in the interview. He qualified his statements saying the current debate is disturbing because of “the blind rage that’s not based on facts and the prejudices that destroy the lives of people whose crime has not been proved in numerous cases. People are simply assassinated in the media, ruining lives and careers.”

He noted that Nagisa Ôshima’s film In The Realm Of The Senses, which he calls “one of the deepest and most profound on the subject of sexuality,” could not be made today “because the funding institutions would not allow this, anticipating obedience to this terror. Suspected actors are cut out of movies and TV series in order not to lose (audiences). Where are we living? In the new Middle Ages?”

Haneke stressed that “this has nothing to do with the fact that every sexual assault and all violence — whether against women or men — should be condemned and punished. But the witch hunt should be left in the Middle Ages.”

What exactly do you think is okay here?

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

exquisite tea posted:

"People will stop making movies with sex in them anymore for fear of being persecuted" lmao do all these guys read from the same script?

They do understand the difference between film and reality, right? Right???

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Exactly how many Hollywood actors have had their lives ruined by false accusations since Fatty Arbuckle?

exquisite tea posted:

"People will stop making movies with sex in them anymore for fear of being persecuted" lmao do all these guys read from the same script?

It's not like the sexual assaults were occurring during sex scenes. It's poo poo like "Come here and undress in the sauna so I can gently caress you." Unless you're Marlon Brando or Tommy Wiseau.

kaworu
Jul 23, 2004

I really don't trust Michael Haneke on this subject in the slightest. I know this is subjective, but I feel like his films are deeply suffused with a particular sort of misogynistic subtext that's a bit more subtle and intellectually-based than most of the misogyny one sees in American films, say. Mostly I'm speaking in reference to The Hunt, which is actually a movie that I do like on some level, but is kind of like... Well...

Actually, the film is really quite apropos to this discussion, and in my opinion expatiates how Haneke views accusations of sexual improprieties against a respectable everyman in the community. The most terrifying point he makes (I thought) was that he does not really seem to feel that it *matters* whether the accuser is actually telling the truth, because (Haneke posits) the man in question suffers a great deal of injustice regardless, and people accused of sexual crimes (especially against children) will be ostracized and be ruined forever even if the accusation is false and proven false. It's a troubling hypothesis he makes, because there is of course a degree of truth there, but he is so consumed with the plight of the poor innocent white man that the film doesn't even really allow for characters other than the white men to have a legitimate emotional reality - instead, the women are more like conspiring antagonists in the film.

Anyway, I'll shut up. My only point is that after seeing that film I cannot help but scoff at anything Haneke could possibly say on this subject.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours

chitoryu12 posted:

Exactly how many Hollywood actors have had their lives ruined by false accusations since Fatty Arbuckle?

In fact, after some scandals, many actors have gone on to be humongous stars. Rob Lowe, for example. Even that loving degenerate Tom Sizemore has had a million chances to "ruin his life" and it hasn't taken.

kaworu posted:

I really don't trust Michael Haneke on this subject in the slightest. I know this is subjective, but I feel like his films are deeply suffused with a particular sort of misogynistic subtext that's a bit more subtle and intellectually-based than most of the misogyny one sees in American films, say. Mostly I'm speaking in reference to The Hunt, which is actually a movie that I do like on some level, but is kind of like... Well...

The Hunt was most definitely not a Haneke movie.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




kaworu posted:

I really don't trust Michael Haneke on this subject in the slightest. I know this is subjective, but I feel like his films are deeply suffused with a particular sort of misogynistic subtext that's a bit more subtle and intellectually-based than most of the misogyny one sees in American films, say. Mostly I'm speaking in reference to The Hunt, which is actually a movie that I do like on some level, but is kind of like... Well...

Actually, the film is really quite apropos to this discussion, and in my opinion expatiates how Haneke views accusations of sexual improprieties against a respectable everyman in the community. The most terrifying point he makes (I thought) was that he does not really seem to feel that it *matters* whether the accuser is actually telling the truth, because (Haneke posits) the man in question suffers a great deal of injustice regardless, and people accused of sexual crimes (especially against children) will be ostracized and be ruined forever even if the accusation is false and proven false. It's a troubling hypothesis he makes, because there is of course a degree of truth there, but he is so consumed with the plight of the poor innocent white man that the film doesn't even really allow for characters other than the white men to have a legitimate emotional reality - instead, the women are more like conspiring antagonists in the film.

Anyway, I'll shut up. My only point is that after seeing that film I cannot help but scoff at anything Haneke could possibly say on this subject.

Haneke didn't direct that movie and it is also based on a case in Norway where the lives of seven people were ruined because of false accusations of sexual assault.

precision
May 7, 2006

by VideoGames
It's also a bit odd to take away "poor white male" from that film anyway.

-Blackadder-
Jan 2, 2007

Game....Blouses.

DrVenkman posted:

Also, Rose McGowan commented on her former manager's suicide and did so with a total lack of awareness, but here's a general piece of Jill Messick and the sad impact of online hate mobs: https://www.thedailybeast.com/was-mean-girls-producer-jill-messick-shamed-into-suicide
If anyone's interested in reading it, I managed to find a full version of that big Harper's Essay that Ronson talks about generating all the backlash in the above DB article.

-Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Feb 13, 2018

davidspackage
May 16, 2007

Nap Ghost

exquisite tea posted:

"People will stop making movies with sex in them anymore for fear of being persecuted" lmao do all these guys read from the same script?

Such a loving weird takeaway from the #metoo thing. Literally no one has called for toning down sexual content in movies in connection to this.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this
Haneke is a terrific filmmaker but he’s specifically devoted to a misanthropic worldview and I don’t really need to hear his thoughts on real life events if it’s not by way of a scathing, bitter film which at least can exist on its own as a work of art.

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010

jet sanchEz posted:

I think the Michael Haneke article should be read before you guys judge him.

the Austrian filmmaker said there is no question that “any form of rape or coercion is punishable… But this hysterical pre-judgment which is spreading now, I find absolutely disgusting. And I don’t want to know how many of these accusations related to incidents 20 or 30 years ago are primarily statements that have little to do with sexual assault.”

allowed he would probably be referred to as “Haneke, the male chauvinist pig” after making the comments in the interview. He qualified his statements saying the current debate is disturbing because of “the blind rage that’s not based on facts and the prejudices that destroy the lives of people whose crime has not been proved in numerous cases. People are simply assassinated in the media, ruining lives and careers.”

He noted that Nagisa Ôshima’s film In The Realm Of The Senses, which he calls “one of the deepest and most profound on the subject of sexuality,” could not be made today “because the funding institutions would not allow this, anticipating obedience to this terror. Suspected actors are cut out of movies and TV series in order not to lose (audiences). Where are we living? In the new Middle Ages?”

Haneke stressed that “this has nothing to do with the fact that every sexual assault and all violence — whether against women or men — should be condemned and punished. But the witch hunt should be left in the Middle Ages.”


Oh for gently caress's sake. The 'We couldn't make X film now' thing is just as stupid here as it is when it's used to defend homophobia and racism. Substantially dumber, since this isn't about film making. gently caress Haneke.

Also, lol at invoking the middle ages, an age notoriously down on sexual violence and violence in general.

Snowman_McK fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Feb 14, 2018

K. Waste
Feb 27, 2014

MORAL:
To the vector belong the spoils.
He's basically Ruggero Deodato at this point.

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991

kaworu posted:

I really don't trust Michael Haneke on this subject in the slightest. I know this is subjective, but I feel like his films are deeply suffused with a particular sort of misogynistic subtext that's a bit more subtle and intellectually-based than most of the misogyny one sees in American films, say. Mostly I'm speaking in reference to The Hunt, which is actually a movie that I do like on some level, but is kind of like... Well...

Actually, the film is really quite apropos to this discussion, and in my opinion expatiates how Haneke views accusations of sexual improprieties against a respectable everyman in the community. The most terrifying point he makes (I thought) was that he does not really seem to feel that it *matters* whether the accuser is actually telling the truth, because (Haneke posits) the man in question suffers a great deal of injustice regardless, and people accused of sexual crimes (especially against children) will be ostracized and be ruined forever even if the accusation is false and proven false. It's a troubling hypothesis he makes, because there is of course a degree of truth there, but he is so consumed with the plight of the poor innocent white man that the film doesn't even really allow for characters other than the white men to have a legitimate emotional reality - instead, the women are more like conspiring antagonists in the film.

Anyway, I'll shut up. My only point is that after seeing that film I cannot help but scoff at anything Haneke could possibly say on this subject.

you buried the lede here: michael haneke has been making films under the pseudonym "thomas vinterberg!"

unlawfulsoup
May 12, 2001

Welcome home boys!

kaworu posted:

I really don't trust Michael Haneke on this subject in the slightest. I know this is subjective, but I feel like his films are deeply suffused with a particular sort of misogynistic subtext that's a bit more subtle and intellectually-based than most of the misogyny one sees in American films, say. Mostly I'm speaking in reference to The Hunt, which is actually a movie that I do like on some level, but is kind of like... Well...

Actually, the film is really quite apropos to this discussion, and in my opinion expatiates how Haneke views accusations of sexual improprieties against a respectable everyman in the community. The most terrifying point he makes (I thought) was that he does not really seem to feel that it *matters* whether the accuser is actually telling the truth, because (Haneke posits) the man in question suffers a great deal of injustice regardless, and people accused of sexual crimes (especially against children) will be ostracized and be ruined forever even if the accusation is false and proven false. It's a troubling hypothesis he makes, because there is of course a degree of truth there, but he is so consumed with the plight of the poor innocent white man that the film doesn't even really allow for characters other than the white men to have a legitimate emotional reality - instead, the women are more like conspiring antagonists in the film.

Anyway, I'll shut up. My only point is that after seeing that film I cannot help but scoff at anything Haneke could possibly say on this subject.

It is really funny that you can read so deeply into a directors mind and not even have the right director.

Problematic Pigeon
Feb 28, 2011

R. Guyovich posted:

you buried the lede here: michael haneke has been making films under the pseudonym "thomas vinterberg!"

Vinterberg also made The Celebration, which portrays the ostrasization of an accused (and guilty) rapist as a good thing and is more concerned with his victims’ pain then the rapist himself.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this
Oh man Festen is incredible.

Judakel
Jul 29, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 9 years!

Timeless Appeal posted:

The problem is that the whole thing is a chicken and egg thing.

Ezra Klein had an interesting take on why the Me Too moment happened the way it did. Basically, Trump put Liberals in a position where there was a lot more sensitivity to sexual harassment and sexual assault after the Access Hollywood tape and the Fox News harassment cases. But the big revelation we get that kicks off all the whole movement is Weinstein, a democrat donor. So, when Weinstein goes down, he literally has nobody to turn to. Trump's shittery helped codify consent politics into Liberalism. Conservatives were ready for the Weinstein story to be about how Liberals are hypocrites and didn't know what was actually happening. But Weinstein found himself in a position where he literally had nobody to turn to. It wasn't like before. There were no defenders. There was nobody questioning the accusations. Weinstein was defenseless and he went down hard. And his going down set a new precedent for how these stories are treated.

But the big question is, does this all work the same way if Trump didn't have his Access Hollywood moment or rape his wife or humiliate a woman on stage and force her to kiss him or oggle half-dressed and naked teenagers or...

The sad thing is that Liberals have been hypocrites. Especially in Hollywood, they've helped protect abusers and rapists. I think it is believable to say that maybe things would have worked differently for Weinstein without Trump. Look back at the beginning of the Weinstein revelations. It's clear that he thinks he can just go to therapy and give money to Liberal causes to get out of this. Lisa Bloom, a lawyer famous for standing up for women, is on his legal team. In those first few days, it doesn't feel like this will be different. But hell, let's go even further with that. I think the Weinstein story's play also got magnified in the mainstream media by Conservatives looking to shame Liberals. There's a good case to be made that this attempt to politicize Weinstein helped foster a media environment where the Me Too movement could get mainstream attention just by how much attention was on Weinstein. The problem for Conservatives is that they didn't hold onto their own narrative.

But also Trump literally sexually harassed a US Senator on twitter and we all saw it happen, so you know, there's a lot of poo poo to unpack with having an open misogynist as a POTUS.

I don't believe, for one second, that Hollywood did not know the extent of any of the accussed's behavior. And I still see them standing up at private dinners and clapping for Dustin Hoffman. I don't care if they clap for him in particular, but be that way in public, too.

-Blackadder-
Jan 2, 2007

Game....Blouses.

Problematic Pigeon posted:

Vinterberg also made The Celebration, which portrays the ostrasization of an accused (and guilty) rapist as a good thing and is more concerned with his victims’ pain then the rapist himself.

Perhaps even more ironic is that the inspiration for the movie came from a person recounting the events from their life on a radio show that Vinterberg listened to. The person's story later turned out to be a complete fabrication and the person, a mental patient.

Bolingbroke
Jan 4, 2015
Very interesting (and melancholy) article on Brendan Fraser and his absence from big Hollywood films: https://www.gq.com/story/what-ever-happened-to-brendan-fraser

The HFPA claim they're investigating Fraser's assault allegations against their former president, Philip Berk: https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/hfpa-investigating-brendan-fraser-sexual-assault-claims/

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back




I love and miss Fraser. I was really upset to hear the news when this story broke. He seems like a really fuckin' nice dude.

Sloth Life
Nov 15, 2014

Built for comfort and speed!
Fallen Rib
Don't know if it has been posted before but Gabriel Byrne said some nice things about the #metoo movement

I don't have Twitter so sorrys for the ontd post

https://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/109635359.html#comments

AceOfFlames
Oct 9, 2012

The Weinstein Company has filed for bankruptcy after sales talks collapsed:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43195327

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

AceOfFlames posted:

The Weinstein Company has filed for bankruptcy after sales talks collapsed:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43195327

I just don't understand, does this mean they were financially hosed before this blew up?

davidspackage
May 16, 2007

Nap Ghost
I can imagine this is a way of torching the place by shuffling around some assets, making it legally look like the company with the poisonous name is bankrupt, and move the assets over to a new company.

And while I'm a non-expert speculator, maybe make safe some $$$ from lawsuits aimed at the production company instead of just the man?

Vegetable
Oct 22, 2010

Rhyno posted:

I just don't understand, does this mean they were financially hosed before this blew up?
No, they had multiple prospective buyers and favored one particular group that wouldn't strip the company of all its assets and employees.

But the New York Attorney General's very recent lawsuit against the Weinstein Company basically opens the company to an indefinite period of investigation and torpedoes all chances of a sale.

Nobody will do business with them now so they can't survive without a sale. Ergo bankruptcy.

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!

esperterra posted:

I love and miss Fraser. I was really upset to hear the news when this story broke. He seems like a really fuckin' nice dude.

It’s another sad example of how actors and actresses are seen as disposable. Frasier has been in the business for a long time, and showed the ability to deliver range from broad comedy to contemplative drama. He anchored a successful action adventure franchise. But at some point he got shuffled in the deck, and his visibility dropped. One of the most grotesque things that has come to light in a post-Weinstein world is just how real the concept of Hollywood Kingmakers is. A small group of people are able to lift careers to superstardom, and just as easily cut the legs out from under them.

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007

Witchfinder General

Brendan Fraser also had multiple injuries from his action roles that affected his ability to get work and he is on the hook for 900,000 dollars a year in Alimony and Child support.

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!

Bolingbroke posted:

Very interesting (and melancholy) article on Brendan Fraser and his absence from big Hollywood films: https://www.gq.com/story/what-ever-happened-to-brendan-fraser

The HFPA claim they're investigating Fraser's assault allegations against their former president, Philip Berk: https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/hfpa-investigating-brendan-fraser-sexual-assault-claims/

And of course James Woods jumps onto this dog pile saying this agent is the one that blackballed him from Hollywood. Not because the agent harassed him, Woods is way too masculine for that to happen, but because Woods told Berk that he wouldn't vote for Hillary.


https://m.newstimes.com/entertainment/the-wrap/article/James-Woods-Joins-Brendan-Fraser-by-Sharing-His-12657010.php

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

Hollismason posted:

Brendan Fraser also had multiple injuries from his action roles that affected his ability to get work and he is on the hook for 900,000 dollars a year in Alimony and Child support.

Holy poo poo, does he have 12 children or something?

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back




He has 3, I think.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
Good lord, it takes 300K to raise a kid per year?

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Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!

esperterra posted:

He has 3, I think.

Yeah, but the rate was set in the mid-00's when he was still making decent money off of Mummy and Journey to the ... residuals.

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