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Liquid Communism posted:I desperately wanted a quest where you just flat out took Father to Sanctuary and were like 'HERE you dumbfuck, I made this with five people in two months while running around looking for your rear end. If you people had taken even the barest effort to not be loving worthless and morally bankrupt, civilization would have returned to the entire commonwealth 150 years ago. Now we're going to do this my way, and it's going to be a lot less pleasant for a lot of your people.' Spoiler Warning suggested the opposite; that Father should try to convince you to join him by saying that the surface is beyond saving, and that despite all the effort you've put in, and everything you've done, there will always be "another settlement that needs your help."
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Feb 16, 2018 14:46
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Fintilgin posted:It's weird, because even New Vegas did this, where people in the Mojave were still living in trash filled quasi-ruins, and had yet to master broom technology. Which is weird, because even in Fallout 1 there were a bunch of settlements of what was pretty clearly post-war adobe construction that looked clean and livable. Vault City had a pretty slick post-war construction setup too, and was set like 40 years before New Vegas. Odd that this aesthetic was totally dropped for New Vegas. Was there any post-war construction in the game that wasn't rusty corrugated metal huts? New Vegas was intentionally doing a contrast between the slums of Freeside and the glitz of the Strip, though. Most of the other towns you hit up are either wrecked because Caesar's boys got there first and crucified everyone or an NCR vs Powder Gang battlefield.
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Feb 16, 2018 14:51
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Randaconda posted:I rock 'em, roll 'em, all night long I've wrangled, and I've rambled, and ive rodeo'd around, Never once thought of settling down
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Feb 16, 2018 14:56
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Keeshhound posted:Spoiler Warning suggested the opposite; that Father should try to convince you to join him by saying that the surface is beyond saving, and that despite all the effort you've put in, and everything you've done, there will always be "another settlement that needs your help." I wanted to kick the Institute out and use their high-tech base as the capital of my empire, but noooooo this is fallout so everything has to end with nukes
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Feb 16, 2018 14:57
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I understand that Bethesda was trying to write every faction as a moral grey that's well-meaning, but the way they went about doing so feels like they finished the faction as Good Guys, then carved out sensible parts of the faction and swapped in 'evil' parts.
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Feb 16, 2018 15:02
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Neurolimal posted:I understand that Bethesda was trying to write every faction as a moral grey that's well-meaning, but the way they went about doing so feels like they finished the faction as Good Guys, then carved out sensible parts of the faction and swapped in 'evil' parts. Well, the Brotherhood are basically Lyons' faction that got soft-couped by the Outcasts, the Institute condone slavery institutionally, pardon the pun, and the Railroad don't particularly care about what happens to the Commonwealth as long as they can keep the synths going to freedom. Those don't seem hugely incompatible, internally, even though they can all present a friendly face to start with.
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Feb 16, 2018 23:07
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I am glad that in response to the critcism of the Brotherhood in Fallout 3 Bethesda just had the Outcasts take it back over after Lyons hosed everything up.
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Feb 16, 2018 23:09
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Glazius posted:Well, the Brotherhood are basically Lyons' faction that got soft-couped by the Outcasts, the Institute condone slavery institutionally, pardon the pun, and the Railroad don't particularly care about what happens to the Commonwealth as long as they can keep the synths going to freedom. The Brotherhood hate the Institute for making new tech that could even theoretically have force implications and they hate the Railroad for helping that tech spread, both to the point of extermination, with no regard for the actual effects or intents of this technology. The Institute and Railroad may not hate the Brotherhood, but since it is an existential threat to both of them neither can rest while it continues to exist in the Commonwealth. The Institute also hates the Railroad for draining it of labor, and the Railroad exists specifically to free enslaved sapient life. Were the Institute to stop manufacturing sapient slaves, the Railroad would have a much smaller purpose (re-adapt Synths who want no further role in the Institute to life in the Commonwealth or neighboring lands). You're right, in that the Institute's issues are political. The ball with the Institute got dropped because Bethesda puts the Sole Survivor in a unique position to enact radical policy change within the Institute and then simply provides no way for the player to do that. But you're wrong, in that the Brotherhood's issues are ideological, and still as hidebound and backwards as they were in Fallout: New Vegas - so long as they don't recognize that absent resorting to an Enclave-like subjugation and/or extermination of anyone outside their organization, they're simply going to stagnate and be left behind or destroyed by the post-Great-War world. And that subjugation is exactly what the East Coast Brotherhood has done in the Capital and now intends to do in the Commonwealth. The Minutemen are nominally entirely orthogonal to this conflict - nominally seeking the stability and redevelopment of the Commonwealth (which had put them at odds with the Institute until they were reduced to an ideal pitched to some rando that stumbled out of a fridge) but functionally pretty much whatever the Sole Survivor wants as long as it's not raiders. And I've thought more about Bethesda's writing and abided by it more than Bethesda's writers have, and have thus discovered yet another new and exciting reason to hate myself. Internet Kraken posted:I am glad that in response to the critcism of the Brotherhood in Fallout 3 Bethesda just had the Outcasts take it back over after Lyons hosed everything up. Can't let things get post-post-apocalyptic, after all 
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Feb 17, 2018 02:56
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I mean, if you can be added to the brotherhood via random paladin patrols by helping them shoot stuff, they're not really that exclusive and decrepit. The biggest dumb plot point is when Maxson confronts Danse about being a synth and rails on about the danger of technology and how rapid technological process destroyed society....like 2 quests away from signing off on recreating a five stories tall aggressive robot that attacks by innacurately throwing nuclear warheads at enemies, (especially) ones near his allies)
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Feb 17, 2018 03:47
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Keeshhound posted:Spoiler Warning suggested the opposite; that Father should try to convince you to join him by saying that the surface is beyond saving, and that despite all the effort you've put in, and everything you've done, there will always be "another settlement that needs your help." Not if I kill them all  Speaking of quests I wish we could've had, I wish you could have a quest for strong where you gather holotapes of Shakespeare plays and classic literature for him and he gradually becomes more civilized and less brutish. Eventually he comes to a realization that without more knowledge he won't unravel the meaning of "milk of human kindness". Then you take him to Virgil, who had made a prototype serum that can reverse the brain degradation that super mutants suffer from, but it was lost somewhere in the Glowing Sea. After giving the serum to strong, there will eventually be one more quest where strong, now able to think clearly and remember many things he had forgotten (such as how to read), wants to go to a library. The quest ends with Strong finding a copy of Macbeth and finally understanding the meaning of the "milk of human kindness". He becomes inspired to collect as many intact books and holotapes as possible and begin to reprint them so that he can use his library to bring literature back to the commonwealth. Or you know, any quest at all that isn't just stupid crap.
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Feb 17, 2018 03:53
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Thats a neat idea, but consider this: milk...of human kindness xd You could even put some player choice in that concepr, by having him feel a sense of emptiness in his more civilized pursuit, and either encourage him to continue his education or encourage him to apply his education into protecting settlements, applying his newfound intellect to better use his strength. Perkwise, the former could have him lose combat prowess and eventually leave your adventuring for a cause important to him (traveling towns encouraging mutant integration and teaching mutants) and the latter could make him better at thrown weapons and capable of using buffs (ending has him forming a primitive Jacobstown with your help).
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Feb 17, 2018 04:04
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That would be cool too. I think that a super mutant who is interested in literature and knowledge could easily be as cool as Markus. I also wish that there were a bunch of Nick Valentine detective side quests, LA Noire style. Fallout detective would be a really good line of quests. Hell, they could make a whole expansion out of that and I'd buy it. Problem is that Bethesda can't be assed to write anything good. They need to put someone with skill in writing in charge of this kind of stuff instead of half assing it all the time.
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Feb 17, 2018 04:37
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The opening half-hour or so of Fallout 4 is all the evidence I need that the writers are not half-assing it, they're just psychotic
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Feb 17, 2018 06:44
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2house2fly posted:The opening half-hour or so of Fallout 4 is all the evidence I need that the writers are not half-assing it, they're just psychotic Schizophrenic would be more accurate. The trouble with the way Bethesda writes their own games is that they lack a good lead writer to ensure consistency. Their design teams pretty much run independent of one another working on locations and ideas they think are cool and running them by Todd is about as much oversight as they get. That's why individual areas can sometimes shine on their games while the overall writing quality and world building is inconsistent as hell.
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Feb 17, 2018 07:14
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One ridiculously tiny tweak that I would have personally found satisfying: Include a few terminal notes etc about Vault 111 including subliminal learning experiments. Having spent over two centuries in the pod you have absorbed an entire library-of-congress worth of civil engineering courses and journals. That's why you can build anything, from anything. And hence why you're rebuilding the infrastructure of the commonwealth so easily when nobody else could.
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Feb 17, 2018 07:18
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The Lone Badger posted:One ridiculously tiny tweak that I would have personally found satisfying: The last thing fallout 4 needed was more loving terminal notes
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Feb 17, 2018 07:19
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The Skeleton King posted:Not if I kill them all That'd be awesome. Unfortunately Bethesda doesn't seem to care about making the Super Mutants any more complex than the orks from 40k. All they do is kill and collect trash to enable killing. I miss the fact that super mutants actually had depth to them in the older fallouts, they weren't all mindless, violent and stupid. Or at least mindless and stupid. They actually clashed with the protagonist because they were a threat to their very survival and even then they still offered you the chance to join them first. Now, apart from Fawkes who is infuriating for his own stupid reasons, all they are is just another obstacle to bump into over and over again.
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Feb 17, 2018 07:56
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Zeniel posted:That'd be awesome. Dear Bethesda: please bring back the Nightkin with the characterization they received in New Vegas, thank you.
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Feb 17, 2018 07:59
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chitoryu12 posted:It's canon in broad strokes, where the general events happened but anything that would be contradictory to the main games is ignored. indeed, the Chicago branch of the brotherhood is even mentioned in FO3.
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Feb 17, 2018 08:12
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mauman posted:indeed, the Chicago branch of the brotherhood is even mentioned in FO3. Would Tactics or Bethesda's games make better canon?
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Feb 17, 2018 08:57
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I didn't really mind the super mutant in Fallout 3 but I thought their presence in Fallout 4 was completely pointless and added nothing to do the game. In Fallout 3 they are just an excuse for the Capital Wasteland to be a complete loving disaster even 200 years in the future. In Fallout 4 though they aren't even the reason the Commonwealth sucks and you could cut them out of the story without anything changing. Nobody really mentions them much and people are generally more concerned about regular old raiders or synths, even when cannibal mutant camp is two blocks down the street. Also I'm pretty sure Virgil and his magic super mutant cure completely shits on established lore which I normally don't care that much about but its pointless in this case. Virgil would of been a better character if he was trapped as a super mutant forever. He could stop his mental degradation but he'd be trapped in that body, turning himself into a pariah in all societies in his attempt to do what he thought was right. Also it means he could have been your super mutant partner instead of Strong who really didn't have any reason to be hanging out with you. CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Would Tactics or Bethesda's games make better canon? I mean honestly I don't think Bethesda's Fallout games are an issue with canon. They gently caress up some established lore and are poorly written at times, but the east coast and west coast are so far removed that what happens in one barely influences the other. Are the NCR and Ceasar's Legion even referenced in Fallout 4?
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Feb 17, 2018 09:44
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The NCR is referenced in Fallout 4, though they make a point to mostly reference Fallout 2 NCR rather than Fallout: New Vegas NCR.
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Feb 17, 2018 10:13
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I don't remember who suggested running right by Preston in the beginning but you may be the best goon.
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Feb 17, 2018 10:15
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Internet Kraken posted:Are the NCR and Ceasar's Legion even referenced in Fallout 4? Kellog is from the NCR, I think that's all that's mentioned.
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Feb 17, 2018 10:18
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Ah yeah I wasn't counting Kellog since his whole mental flashback is an extended Fallout 2 reference. I was referring to the events of New Vegas.
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Feb 17, 2018 10:21
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There are also some minor NCR references outside of it, like a file in Nick Valentine's files.
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Feb 17, 2018 10:31
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Tactics wasn't that bad in terms of writing, and it introduced some plot hooks that could be interesting to follow up on (most notably the super mutant scientist trying to cure mutant sterility) Similarly the writing in Brotherhood of Steel wasnt terrible, just.....the art, design, and most of the gameplay.
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Feb 17, 2018 14:03
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I really liked Tactics, It'll never happen for myriad of reasons but I'd have loved to have seen FO1 and FO2 remade in its engine. Tweaked, so that it removed a few of the crippling bugs. I liked its graphics and the addition of prone mechanics, many of the levels are really cool set pieces too, the vehicles and a ton of new weapons and such. It's sadly linear and extremely difficult in its end game, but I think people definitely exaggerate how bad it is. It's a heavily combat focused RPG, the missions are fun and I don't think it was trying to be much else. I don't even really mind Fallout:Brotherhood of Steel, although it is clearly in the dying days of Interplay, seeing as its crammed with ads, inappropriate music and uninspired repetitive gameplay. Voice actings good though. Games more of a curiosity piece really, not really missing much if you never played. Interestingly enough both games end with you tracking down Vault 0, because they seemed to be back in the day when things ending in 0 was all cool and mysterious.
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Feb 17, 2018 15:54
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Prostheticfoot posted:I don't remember who suggested running right by Preston in the beginning but you may be the best goon. Honestly, it's the best outcome he could've reasonably expected, anyway. It's the loving wasteland and he just screams for help to the first random stranger he sees? Idiot.
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Feb 17, 2018 18:15
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Well he did watch you running down the street, killing everyone attacking the museum so he probably decided to hedge his bets. I mean he was screwed either way.
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Feb 17, 2018 18:26
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They're still the best faction
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Feb 17, 2018 18:28
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I like the Minutemen.
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Feb 17, 2018 19:13
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Apparently there's a Fallout boardgame. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ6ZXhhB2b0 I was kind of excited that it might be set in FO1 because of the cover. But then it turns out it's set in FO4 instead. 
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Feb 17, 2018 19:18
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Keeshhound posted:Honestly, it's the best outcome he could've reasonably expected, anyway. It's the loving wasteland and he just screams for help to the first random stranger he sees? Idiot. There's even a bit of acknowledgement that you might do this: If you never established Sanctuary then when Piper tells you to go meet all the factions she'll point you towards Concord, where the last Minutemen are fighting
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Feb 17, 2018 19:19
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corn in the bible posted:There's even a bit of acknowledgement that you might do this: If you never established Sanctuary then when Piper tells you to go meet all the factions she'll point you towards Concord, where the last Minutemen are fighting ...how does she know?
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Feb 17, 2018 20:02
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MikeJF posted:...how does she know? Good journalists have contacts. 
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Feb 17, 2018 20:06
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Tinder matched with a girl in a vault suit, but she didn't get my what's the deal with rad scorpions reference. What do I do goons.
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Feb 17, 2018 20:07
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Reality Loser posted:Tinder matched with a girl in a vault suit, but she didn't get my what's the deal with rad scorpions reference. What do I do goons. Bring her a bunch of vault suits and she will bang
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Feb 17, 2018 20:17
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I played through the game like three times before I knew that.
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Feb 17, 2018 20:20
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shovelbum posted:Bring her a bunch of vault suits and she will bang You can also bring her flight jackets in a pinch.
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Feb 17, 2018 20:32
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