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harperdc posted:I'm vacillating between telling you to "keep going at full speed" and to relax and enjoy it at a leisurely pace, but if you're still in season 1, you've got some gems coming. Level 5 Special, Bill Riley, Tommy Kendall to name a few. Or as I've gone for, skip around like an idiot, because I couldn't resist listening to Sarah Fisher.
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Feb 14, 2018 08:46
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Good news rally fans https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/safari-rally-set-for-wrc-return-by-2020/ Although I suspect it will be a normal stage rally set in Kenya rather than the overland rally of old. Another snow rally in Canada sounds cool too. Rally Sweden starts tomorrow btw.
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Feb 14, 2018 14:23
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Humbug posted:Good news rally fans 
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Feb 14, 2018 19:34
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Incoming crosspost: https://twitter.com/Team_Penske/status/964514731749924864
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Feb 16, 2018 20:04
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Where are the Supercars lads.
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Feb 16, 2018 20:36
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njsykora posted:Where are the Supercars lads. https://twitter.com/Team_Penske/status/964537893380415488
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Feb 16, 2018 20:37
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-AMG-GT3-GT-Race-Car/323080143835 The "Daddy's Money Can't Buy Skill, But It Can Buy A Car That I Think Has Better BoP" special.
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Feb 19, 2018 19:44
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MazeOfTzeentch posted:https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-AMG-GT3-GT-Race-Car/323080143835 This seems like an absolute steal for $100k?
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Feb 19, 2018 20:55
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Wirth1000 posted:This seems like an absolute steal for $100k? Reserve not met. You can buy a new one from the factory for like $400k I guess.
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Feb 19, 2018 21:22
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Oh, whew, that makes way more sense. Didn't notice the reserve.
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Feb 19, 2018 21:27
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Here's a stupid question that I couldn't get a concrete answer after searching around, but what is the difference between a GTE car and a GT3 car. Aside from GT3's aren't meant to be factory teams, their specs seem pretty simmilar and I remember on MWM a while back they were saying it wouldn't take much to convert the GT3 McLaren into a GTE car. Also GT3's have more driver aides for gentlemen drivers?
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Feb 19, 2018 23:08
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Generally, similar amounts of power, GTE cars have more room in the regs for aero (huge diffusers), engine position, no ABS on GTE. I think GTE cars can be wider too.
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Feb 19, 2018 23:11
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GTE are essentially full purpose built racecars from the ground up. They are prototypes that look like streetcars. Any parts they share with their road equivalent are likely for marketing. Less performance balancing, more manufacturer involvement, very high cost (~2-3x higher than LMP2 in WEC or Proto in IMSA). Mostly the realm of works teams and a few very rich privateers. GT3 is more performance balancing, less manufacturer involvement, more reasonable costs. So while there are cars that are purebred racecars in the class, they will be performance balanced back to everyone else anyway so there is little incentive to make pieces of the car out of unobtainum or beat the chassis into the ground in testing. Mostly the realm of privateers, with varying degrees of manufacturer support.
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Feb 19, 2018 23:29
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GTE works like this. The ACO (and more recently the FIA) wrote the technical regulations: https://www.fia.com/fia-wec-2018-technical-regulations-grand-touring-cars-lmgte-homologated-2016 If you are a manufacturer, you read those technical regs and adapt one of your road car products to meet the spec. Then you get your car homologated to make sure it meets those specs, and you race it.* Cars that are built to the current year’s specs have to be run by factory teams (in WEC). Year-old spec cars can be run by pro-am teams. GT3 works differently. AFAIK there’s no technical regulation as such, and you’re allowed things like traction control and ABS because the idea is to sell cars to private teams. All GT3 cars performance balanced against each other - there will be a reference lap time that SRO or the FIA wants cars to stick to, and if yours is too fast you get pegged back and if it’s too slow you can make it go faster until it’s within the range. There’s no real incentive to come up with anything particularly clever engineering-wise compared to GTE. Some GTE and GT3 cars are very similar - the Ferrari 488 race car for example is pretty easily changed from one spec to the other. There’s some info here: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/08/up-close-and-personal-with-scuderia-corsas-ferrari-488-gt3-race-car/ *Actually there’s still balance of performance in GTE, which complicates things.
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Feb 19, 2018 23:42
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BMW also had the M6 GTLM which was built to GTE spec but never homologated by the ACO, only IMSA, based on the M6 GT3. They've since replaced that with a fully ACO homologated car, the M8 GTE (which promptly got BoPfucked by IMSA)
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Feb 20, 2018 02:03
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Double post for more info: GTE is also a more limited class, as far as allowed specifications. It is more of a build-to-a-spec setup, with engine displacement limits, must be 2 doors with 2 or 2+2 seats in the production model. GT3 is more open, still production based, but more build-to-a-performance standard and then balanced, instead of build-to-a-spec (minus waivers). The Viper GT3 is allowed to have it's 8L V10 by default, and it's balanced into the performance window. The Viper GT2/GTE had to have a waiver (all other makers agree to let it race outside of regulations) to have an engine larger than 5.5L N/A. The Ford GT LM GTE famously was allowed to race on a waiver in 2016, because no street examples had been constructed at the time. The BMW M8 is also on a similar waiver, as there's no 8-series out there in the wild yet. BMW also asked for a waiver to lower the roofline on the M8 GTE to reduce drag and it was denied by at least one competing maker, causing a lengthy late-stage redesign, setting the program back quite a bit.
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Feb 20, 2018 05:19
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https://twitter.com/OttTanak/status/964479225943216128
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Feb 21, 2018 04:50
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The frontrunners being salty about road position was great. I laughed at Tanak telling the organizers to go screw themselves. That's rally buddy. Ogier deliberately being late to the start to get power stage point was pretty funny too. Stoked for Breen though. If he had only won every full time driver in the field would have had a win. The championship looks like it could be tasty this year. Neuville Tanak and Ogier all look capable of taking it, with Latvalla and Mikkelsen getting in the mix here and there. Bring on Mexico and the return of the dark overlord (Loeb)
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Feb 21, 2018 09:26
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drgitlin posted:There’s no real incentive to come up with anything particularly clever engineering-wise compared to GTE. Well, except for things like the Mercedes AMG-GT3s getting a qualifying ECU mode at the Spa 24hrs a couple years ago...leading to all of the pro Mercs getting penalties after qualifying. (GT3 is apparently strict about ECU software homologation, which makes perfect sense in many ways).
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Feb 21, 2018 11:27
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harperdc posted:Well, except for things like the Mercedes AMG-GT3s getting a qualifying ECU mode at the Spa 24hrs a couple years ago...leading to all of the pro Mercs getting penalties after qualifying. (GT3 is apparently strict about ECU software homologation, which makes perfect sense in many ways). Worth noting: This was their first outing with a massive update for the Merc GT3 at Spa and they sandbagged like crazy to avoid getting BoP'd to oblivion. (I think it was that Spa 24 and not the VLN 24 ?a year later?)
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Feb 21, 2018 12:11
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So the GTE's need to be based off a roadcar, but the GT3's don't? But they usually are based of a roadcars bodyshell? I remember when the Bentley GT3 first arrived everyone was going on about how it was pretty much a protoype in drag. But then people say the same thing about the Ford GT, which I guess the road version is flirting closely with being a racecar.
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Feb 21, 2018 13:40
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track day bro! posted:So the GTE's need to be based off a roadcar, but the GT3's don't? But they usually are based of a roadcars bodyshell? GTEs are more directly based on a homologation model - while there are some aero differences allowed, for example, you can't stick a different engine in, and Porsche really should have a 'mid-engined' 911 you can buy for the street. While those differences are more accepted for GT3 spec -- the Mercedes AMG GT3 has the engine also developed for the SLS GT3, and not a new engine developed from the street model -- the GTE is more supposed to be based off the street car. This is why the Ford GT was such a big change -- similar to how the Porsche 911 GT1 was in 1996. [edit] Short version: GTE has to be homologated from a street model, GT3 does not, but is based off it with some latitude for changes. GT3 is then tuned and balanced so that, in theory, every car can run approximately the same lap times, and from there all of that make's GT3 cars are homologated to that spec. And when the Bentley debuted, they didn't think it was a prototype, but instead an ocean liner. It's a much bigger car than what's normally raced, but it works and makes the lap times, so  Schlesische posted:Worth noting: This was their first outing with a massive update for the Merc GT3 at Spa and they sandbagged like crazy to avoid getting BoP'd to oblivion. Yes but the six cars that made the "shootout" finale of qualifying got their times erased, went to the back of the "shootout" top 20, had five-minute stop-and-holds and it was because their engine timing didn't match homologation of the GT3 model. This wasn't an update thing, it was Autosport.com posted:The five-mintue stop-go penalties have been awarded for unsporting behaviour resulting from "presenting a car with a technical non-conformity of which the competitor should have been aware". kinda cheat-y. harperdc fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Feb 21, 2018 |
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Feb 21, 2018 13:53
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MazeOfTzeentch posted:BMW also had the M6 GTLM which was built to GTE spec but never homologated by the ACO, only IMSA, based on the M6 GT3. They've since replaced that with a fully ACO homologated car, the M8 GTE (which promptly got BoPfucked by IMSA) Note that BMW replaced the 6series/M6 with a completely different car (what used to be the 5series GT), and moved the "super expensive coupé based on a sedan" from the 5series (M6) to the 7series (M8). That's another reason why the M8 GTE is not a direct successor to the M6 GTLM/GT3. It has to do a lot with marketing...no sense in running the M6 (as a works team) any longer if there is no road equivalent for people to buy, thus the move to the M8 (which shares quite a lot of DNA with the M6 GT3).
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Feb 21, 2018 17:20
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harperdc posted:Yes but the six cars that made the "shootout" finale of qualifying got their times erased, went to the back of the "shootout" top 20, had five-minute stop-and-holds and it was because their engine timing didn't match homologation of the GT3 model. This wasn't an update thing, it was Yeah, I remember watching a... ?Chris Harris? thing on that race where he mentioned the grid was surprised that the Mercs were midway through the pack during practice and that surprised everyone because they were expecting more. Then quali turned around and they locked out 1-6.
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Feb 21, 2018 20:49
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tuo posted:Note that BMW replaced the 6series/M6 with a completely different car (what used to be the 5series GT), and moved the "super expensive coupé based on a sedan" from the 5series (M6) to the 7series (M8). That's another reason why the M8 GTE is not a direct successor to the M6 GTLM/GT3. It has to do a lot with marketing...no sense in running the M6 (as a works team) any longer if there is no road equivalent for people to buy, thus the move to the M8 (which shares quite a lot of DNA with the M6 GT3). of course it's good that another big brand came into the big brands racing real cars class, especially a big manufacturer with history and prestige. but the M6 and M8 are both much bigger cars than the competition (911, Vantage, Ferrari). Helps that the M8 was designed as a GTE first and not a GT3 that BMW wrestled IMSA into allowing in the series (which they'd done for going on five years beforehand with the M6 and Z4 before it), and that there will be a real M8 coming soon too. But those M6 GT3s will still be out there for a while, as due to the nature of the GT3 homologation there's less year-to-year turnover than in something like GTE.
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Feb 21, 2018 23:19
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harperdc posted:Well, except for things like the Mercedes AMG-GT3s getting a qualifying ECU mode at the Spa 24hrs a couple years ago...leading to all of the pro Mercs getting penalties after qualifying. (GT3 is apparently strict about ECU software homologation, which makes perfect sense in many ways). Right. What I meant to add but forgot to was the way GT3 has turned into a manufacturer playground when it was always supposed to be a privateer thing. So now a GT3 or GTD budget is more than running in LMP2.
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Feb 22, 2018 02:27
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Time for everybody to set their watches, the #55 Mazda DPi caught fire during the Sebring test today
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Feb 23, 2018 01:32
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It has been [0] days since the last Mazda DPi fire.
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Feb 23, 2018 01:54
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MazeOfTzeentch posted:It has been [0] days since the last Mazda DPi fire. something something dumpster fire with wheels something something
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Feb 23, 2018 03:15
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God drat, not even the magic of Joest Racing can fix Mazda. Death, taxes, and Mazda gonna Mazda are the 3 universal constants. Double sucks because Mazda used to do real good in the Rolex series from what I heard.
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Feb 23, 2018 06:54
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Wouldn't have happened if it was a rotary 
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Feb 23, 2018 07:53
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orange juche posted:God drat, not even the magic of Joest Racing can fix Mazda. Joest can't do anything about the fact that Mazda decided that rather than build an IMSA car they'd first butcher a couple of Lolas old enough to remember segregation in public schools and then pick the LMP2 chassis slower than Montoya to a salad bar.
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Feb 23, 2018 08:26
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mazda requires rotaries in order to be competitive in endurance racing
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Feb 23, 2018 09:29
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There is a feature in this month’s Racecar Engineering about the Mazda, details some of the reasons why last year’s car was so terrible. Sounds like a moron laid out the radiators and cooling systems and Joest had to unfuck a lot of that, plus the rear suspension.
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Feb 23, 2018 13:58
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drgitlin posted:There is a feature in this month’s Racecar Engineering about the Mazda, details some of the reasons why last year’s car was so terrible. Sounds like a moron laid out the radiators and cooling systems and Joest had to unfuck a lot of that, plus the rear suspension. The extreme crapluence of the Riley is well-known issue at this point, the problem is that the car has shown improved pace but no improved reliability so far for all the work that has gone into it. It's starting to look like a McLaren-Honda situation with the Riley and AER motor, where you have a lousy powerplant made far worse by terrible packaging. What can Mazda even do about it? They said they want to race what they sell, so that rules out buying a racing V8 from whomever. So they go with 4 cylinders and a turbo, but they're up against V8s by ECR and Gibson and turbo V6s by Nissan and Acura, so all can you do is turn up the boost further and further and that's like bringing a knife to a swordfight and trying to compensate by welding increasingly longer pieces of metal to the sharp end. It's not like dropping a rotary in would help either if the engine thermal management is already that questionable, given how hot rotaries run. Not to mention it would disqualify them from going back to Le Mans in a future DPi-LMP2 harmonization assuming the rotary ban wasn't rescinded. Probably the best case scenario would be Hiroshima developing an all new, larger-displacement turbo 4 for use in the prototype and upcoming Mazda3 TCR car, but that's a pipe dream.
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Feb 24, 2018 00:10
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of all the unbelievably dumb decisions we've seen throughout endurance racing over the years, the rotary ban remains hands-down the fuckin dumbest thing they ever did
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Feb 24, 2018 02:52
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Tony Schumacher ran over 336 today at Phoenix in Q2( 1000 ft). He was over 299 at the 1/8th. It boggles my mind that they are getting to 300 in 660 feet.
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Feb 24, 2018 07:49
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financially racist posted:of all the unbelievably dumb decisions we've seen throughout endurance racing over the years, the rotary ban remains hands-down the fuckin dumbest thing they ever did There was a rotary ban? Under ACO rules? There was a stupid engine rule (3.5L F1 engines or something equally stupid) that was in place at the time the 787B, but which wasn't going to be strictly enforced until the next year as there weren't enough cars of that spec. As a result of those specific engine regs there was a Rotary ban, but it didn't stick and there's no current rotary ban afaik. Flipside: rotaries are kinda super garbage in endurance racing. I'm not aware of an IMSA ban, but I mean IMSA did and does a lot of really dumb poo poo. Schlesische fucked around with this message at 13:09 on Feb 24, 2018 |
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Feb 24, 2018 12:56
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Outside of the LeMans win I'm pretty sure most of the time the Rotary group C cars got stomped by Porsche/Mercedes. The 91 win was one of attrition rather than the 787b being the quickest car.
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Feb 24, 2018 14:04
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Schlesische posted:There was a rotary ban? Under ACO rules? Interesting, I haven't actually read the ACO engine regs lately but I'd always heard the rotary was banned after '91 and took it as gospel. And of course the rotary probably isn't an actual improvement over a turbo 4, but if you're going to lose literally all the time, you may as well do it while making a hilariously loud and antisocial buzzsaw noise and shooting flame
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Feb 24, 2018 14:26
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