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While setting up conveyor belt delivery systems to various entities in my base I've noticed that a lot of objects have strange limits on the amount of items that inserters will add to them? For example my inserter will only put coal into my boiler if it's below 5 coal, and won't ever try to top it off above that number. I myself can stock it with 50. An inserter will only put a red or green potion into a lab if they have less than 2 of a potion. I myself can put seemingly infinite into a lab. Is there a reason for this?
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Feb 17, 2018 06:31
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If they took as much as they could fit in, then when you first start a factory the first machine on a belt would suck up the entire belt's contents before allowing any to get to the second machine. Buffers, in general, aren't good to have, it's material that could be going to work somewhere else just sitting around. The actual number is a combination of machine speed and inserter capacity; machines will generally keep enough in them to work continuously assuming the input is available, but not much more.
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Feb 17, 2018 06:45
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RiotGearEpsilon posted:Or rather, an infinitely long invisible wire link between every wireless point and an imaginary power pole that every wireless point connects to. Otherwise, you get n^2 connections.
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Feb 17, 2018 08:37
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ShadowHawk posted:Why imaginary? Just have the "infinite range power pole" be the "wireless" object and make the player connect the wire manually. Hopefully the game wouldn't have to draw the green line. You may safely assume that I have considered all these methods and found them wanting.
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Feb 17, 2018 08:40
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Sininu posted:Would anyone like to tell me more about Rampant? I installed it but haven't faced the biters yet. I'm unsure how to configure properly it so it won't be too much for me. However after a few tries they'd move elsewhere and attack a different part of the base, instead of always taking the shortest route from spawners to my base, so you definitely need more turrets overall. I haven't gotten to facing big biters yet, but I imagine it's going to be a whole different beast when they're smart. Megasabin posted:While setting up conveyor belt delivery systems to various entities in my base I've noticed that a lot of objects have strange limits on the amount of items that inserters will add to them? If it didn't your first machine along a conveyor would steal all the resources on the belt until it's full, and waste a ton of material when you might want higher parallell throughput instead. You can manually insert up to a full stack, correct.
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Feb 17, 2018 11:24
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if you really wanted a buffer you could put a chest between the assembler and belt i guess?
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Feb 17, 2018 13:01
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Collateral Damage posted:You can manually insert up to a full stack, correct. Sorry for the pedantry here but coming from minecraft I'd assumed (incorrectly) this was the case too; You can actually put just under 1.5 stacks in most machines by shoving stuff into the input slot as hard as you can. Another feature-departure from minecraft is that if I have a factorio assembler that makes widgets and is currently idle because a widget is waiting to be output, and I walk up with another widget in my inventory, in factorio I can rather simply just stick the widget I'm holding in the machineoutput slot that currently holds widgets and that's fine, it'll just stack with those. Minecraft generally doesn't let you put stuff "in" to "output" slots.
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Feb 17, 2018 18:46
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chairface posted:Sorry for the pedantry here but coming from minecraft I'd assumed (incorrectly) this was the case too; You can actually put just under 1.5 stacks in most machines by shoving stuff into the input slot as hard as you can. Another feature-departure from minecraft is that if I have a factorio assembler that makes widgets and is currently idle because a widget is waiting to be output, and I walk up with another widget in my inventory, in factorio I can rather simply just stick the widget I'm holding in the machineoutput slot that currently holds widgets and that's fine, it'll just stack with those. Minecraft generally doesn't let you put stuff "in" to "output" slots. Yeah, you can cram extra into the inputs, and you can stack stuff from your inventory into the output slot. It's really handy. I do the latter when I have items in my inventory and I want to cycle them through my base, usually because I've been rebalancing things and picked up items off of belts or factories I've disassembled, or to boost production by transferring items from another section of my factory when I don't have bot coverage.
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Feb 17, 2018 18:50
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How do you defend your base in R.S.O. games? I've got a huge area inside my train tracks now, and several distributed smelting areas. Even with Artillery bases, setting up a solid perimeter would take hours, but about every hour or so, some new biters migrate into the area covered by my pollution cloud and I have to go root them out. For scale - the area around ore iron 2 in kind of the middle of the map is the area an artillery piece covers. Or just 1/28th of the current perimeter and I need to push out to bring in new ore sources soon.  Edit: Also, what do you use artillery wagons for that it wouldn't be cheaper and simpler to use an artillery turret for? I mostly seem= them as perimeter defenses so would want them to be stationary anyways. If artillery wagons could load from other cargo wagons in the same train that might be different but they didn't seem to in my tests. LLSix fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Feb 17, 2018 |
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Feb 17, 2018 22:07
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Easy, just put all your space science into artillery range. You're welcome.
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Feb 17, 2018 23:08
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You don't need to defend everything - you just need to defend the main stuff, and go out on occasional biter-clearing expeditions to thin out the migrators. I haven't played 0.16, but I imagine the artillery wagon would be useful for that: rather than having to block off expansion completely or having to repeatedly go clear out biters that migrate too close, you can just send an artillery train around the perimeter to automatically clear out any spawners that get planted in your territory.
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Feb 17, 2018 23:22
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Artillery aren't really for defense anyways. They only target biter nests, and shooting them down summons whatever biters that were milling about outside to come to the location of the artillery. You need to have regular turret emplacements to defend against those waves, so you might as well just build normal static defense.
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Feb 17, 2018 23:24
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He train exists because trains are cooler than turrets. Surround your perimeter with radars with a few gun turrets each, and have train sidings where the artillery wagon unload one shell from a cargo wagon and loads it into the artillery wagon and is defended by turrets. Have it patrol between them with 120sec delay conditions set
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Feb 17, 2018 23:29
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How do you all deal with biters chewing up your electrical lines? I have a gigantic, distributed factory with a beautiful grid-pattern rail network. Every once in a while a horde of biters will walk directly into an electric pole and destroy it. It's not a huge problem just kind of annoying - every portion of the factory has multiple power lines running to it so I'm not losing power anywhere. My pollution is too large and biters are maximally evolved; not sure there's anything I can do about that.
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Feb 17, 2018 23:38
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My typical strategy is just to defend my pollution cloud. I am far more offensive and far less defensive. As far as I am concerned, any nest near my pollution cloud, or god forbid underneath my cloud is marked for extermination. Even early I am doing work with heavy armor, piercing ammo, and grenades. Those are enough to clear small and medium-sized nests, so long as they don't have any big worms. Once tanks come around killing larger nests and big worms becomes much more viable. Uranium ammo, artillery, and nukes all seal the deal at the end. By the time maximally evolved biters come around, it is usually because I've nuking nests en masse while running around like Speedy Gonzalez with six exoskeletons stuffed in a power armor II. I don't really go for miles of wall and giant arrays of turrets, though I will use them in places. I will usually keep some radar coverage up to watch out for expansions. Filthy Monkey fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Feb 17, 2018 |
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Feb 17, 2018 23:53
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:Artillery aren't really for defense anyways. They only target biter nests, and shooting them down summons whatever biters that were milling about outside to come to the location of the artillery. You need to have regular turret emplacements to defend against those waves, so you might as well just build normal static defense. Yeah, my thought is to just have static defenses to keep small groups of biters away from anything you actually care about, and then send an artillery train around every so often to thin out the spawners - otherwise, biter nests will gradually mass just outside the edge of your defenses, contributing to bigger and more frequent attacks.
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Feb 17, 2018 23:58
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Okay, I think I am done obsessing over nuclear plants. This is my final one. I tweaked my previous non-moderated 12 reactor design enough that I think it is in a good stopping place. All the pumps help keep the heat exchangers wet, given the lengths involved. I feel like in the late game, I could just drop down another one of these whenever I want additional juice. At 12 reactors the average adjacency bonus is a quite good at 366.67% https://imgur.com/uoFLZUE https://pastebin.com/vavzhupk All 16 hookups are right next to each other at the top, making for easy water hookup. Most of the big power plant designs I see require you to landfill out the middle of a lake, which is tedious and annoying given that bots can't do it. This design just requires that you edge a lake off enough to get the pumps in. Power is truncated to the nearest GW, so to test performance I built two of these plants in creative mode and ran them for an hour. The pair showed a constant 3.5 GW, which means that each plant is individually at least 1.75 GW. Given that the theoretical maximum is 1.76 GW, I think they are on the money. Moderated plants are fun at the 2 or 4 reactor level, but become kind of a pain for reactors larger than that. By that time you generally have a hojillion fuel anyway. Learning how to moderate plants was a fun way to learn about the circuit network though. I went from knowing nearly nothing to being able to set up timers and latches. I figure that is pretty good. Filthy Monkey fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 01:38
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sharkbomb posted:How do you all deal with biters chewing up your electrical lines? I have a gigantic, distributed factory with a beautiful grid-pattern rail network. Every once in a while a horde of biters will walk directly into an electric pole and destroy it. It's not a huge problem just kind of annoying - every portion of the factory has multiple power lines running to it so I'm not losing power anywhere. Biters don't target power lines or rails, usually. They'll only attack them if they're blocking their path or set off by something else. I've had games where one particular pole gets repeatedly destroyed by biters each time I rebuild it - if that's how it is for you, either try defending the targeted patches heavily or just reroute your electrical network to avoid the area.
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Feb 18, 2018 01:47
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Yeah, I have had biters path into my radars and destroy them (they prioritize radars as highly as turrets) but they never actually go after the power pole. Since power poles don't emit pollution, biters will not attack them at all unless they are physically blocking their pathing (or to do so would cause them to deviate too much from their original route) or there's nothing else to shoot.
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Feb 18, 2018 02:19
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LLSix posted:Edit: Also, what do you use artillery wagons for that it wouldn't be cheaper and simpler to use an artillery turret for? I mostly seem= them as perimeter defenses so would want them to be stationary anyways. If artillery wagons could load from other cargo wagons in the same train that might be different but they didn't seem to in my tests. Basically the artillery wagons are a) for fun and radness and b) so you can have a patrolling artillery train. Just have it go around a fixed track around your perimeter, wait 5-10 minutes at a well-defended station, move to the next and repeat. They'll clear out all the bugs that have set up since the last time the cannons were there. Up to you if you want a separate train carrying the ammo or have one train car devoted to it.
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Feb 18, 2018 02:30
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LLSix posted:Edit: Also, what do you use artillery wagons for that it wouldn't be cheaper and simpler to use an artillery turret for? I mostly seem= them as perimeter defenses so would want them to be stationary anyways. If artillery wagons could load from other cargo wagons in the same train that might be different but they didn't seem to in my tests. Artillery wagons hold 100 rounds, artillery turrets only 15 
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Feb 18, 2018 02:46
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Filthy Monkey posted:Okay, I think I am done obsessing over nuclear plants. This is my final one. I tweaked my previous non-moderated 12 reactor design enough that I think it is in a good stopping place. All the pumps help keep the heat exchangers wet, given the lengths involved. I feel like in the late game, I could just drop down another one of these whenever I want additional juice. At 12 reactors the average adjacency bonus is a quite good at 366.67% yoink. Thank you; I'm planning to give this a try just as soon as I've got adequate defenses set up.
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Feb 18, 2018 04:12
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Tenebrais posted:Biters don't target power lines or rails, usually. They'll only attack them if they're blocking their path or set off by something else. I've had games where one particular pole gets repeatedly destroyed by biters each time I rebuild it - if that's how it is for you, either try defending the targeted patches heavily or just reroute your electrical network to avoid the area. Biters definitely tear down power lines, especially when you've reached the point where 20+ behemoths are being launched at your factory. I think there are so many biters in the crowd that they end up going aggro on the power line because they're crammed between other biters and the electric pole. It's annoying.
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Feb 18, 2018 06:32
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How many blue belts can a train stop support? One for each cargo wagon?
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Feb 18, 2018 16:05
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LLSix posted:How many blue belts can a train stop support? One for each cargo wagon? For high throughput stations, I build 6 blue belts per car, but they don't run at 100% compression. e: a typical station is fine with 4. Dr. Stab fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 17:27
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LLSix posted:How many blue belts can a train stop support? One for each cargo wagon? A fully upgraded stack inserter can shove about 12.2 items/s onto a blue belt according to https://dddgamer.github.io/factorio-cheat-sheet/. So a double-sided unloader setup could do 146.4 items/s per train car at max, which is not quite 4 blue belts. Trains into chests and then having bots come and take them away is more than twice as fast, though you'll have to figure out how to rebelt them from the various logistics chests if that's what you want.
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Feb 18, 2018 17:28
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LLSix posted:How many blue belts can a train stop support? One for each cargo wagon? That depends a lot on your train stop design, but it shouldn't be too hard to keep four or five blue belts satisfied as long as you have enough trains coming in. Stack inserters can unload a cargo wagon to a chest faster than they can unload a chest to a belt.
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Feb 18, 2018 17:32
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Really depends on how your train stop is set up. At maximum research, a stack inserter can move 12.2 items/sec from chest to belt. https://wiki.factorio.com/Inserters A blue belt has a total throughput of 40 items per second. So, four stack inserters going from chest to belt can saturate a blue belt, so long as you are using splitter merging to compress. That means you could in theory get three blue belts out of each cargo wagon without too much effort, provided you are unloading on both sides. Granted, you would need furiously be sending trains to keep up with that. Chest to chest unloading is done at 27.7 items per second. Given double unloading into 12 chests, that means a throughput of 332.4 items/sec while unloading. To keep up with the 120 items/sec going out on belts, you would need to have a train unloading in the station 120/332.4 = 36% of the time. Filthy Monkey fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 17:35
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My go-to is two blue belts per car, one per side. It's not quite max-speed, but the buffer chests deal with the excess income//downtime to keep the belts near 100%.
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Feb 18, 2018 18:11
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Version 0.16.25 posted:Inserters and belt sideloading can now squash item on belt even when the gap isn't big enough. The squashed gap is extended to normal size once the front of the belt starts to move again. This means, that inserter rows and side loading can produce fully compressed belts without the usage of splitters. Compression is back baby! and its better than ever
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Feb 19, 2018 22:19
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 Wonder if this mechanic is here to stay
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Feb 19, 2018 22:20
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Returning player, i never used trains at all in the past. Is it adventageous to use them rather than running out longass conveyors?
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Feb 19, 2018 23:38
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Willfrey posted:Returning player, i never used trains at all in the past. Is it adventageous to use them rather than running out longass conveyors? Yes, a pair of tracks can carry so much compared to the amount of belts you could make with the same resources.
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Feb 19, 2018 23:42
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If you've never done trains, try out the rail world map setting. It makes them so much more attractive early on, where you might otherwise try to belt out a solution.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:21
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This artillery spur has been working pretty well for me. Feels a little over-engineered since the turrets rarely take damage. https://pastebin.com/cPrRwjPZ
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Feb 20, 2018 03:53
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artillery really frustrates me because it's on the same tier as nuclear and atomic weapons only take a little more effort and are far, far superior. It'd be much nicer if you could research and get them around or just after tanks, because they aren't really better than nuclear-backed lasers. They'd be great if uranium didn't exist but, well, it does. if you DO try RSO for trains (and it's really fun, just get some blueprints rather than make it yourself) make sure you turn down biters or your world will end up looking like this: 
Bhodi fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Feb 20, 2018 |
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Feb 20, 2018 04:58
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Artillery is great for getting rid of biter creep like that without having to run around with legs and nukes for an hour. Set up your train loop with a lot of artillery (I do 3 cannons and 3 cargo wagons per train) and have them continuously patrol, the wagons hold shells, repair packs, and either piercing or uranium ammo , and I've lately taken to adding on two fluid wagons to load light oil into tanks for flamer turrets. Initially its a huge pain, as there are a lot of biters and not enough time, but thanks to the whole automation thing after two or three hours pretty much everything in your pollution cloud is clear, at least once you start getting some artillery range research. Yes nothing will ever beat running up and nuking some places, but I always make sure to save before I do so since I've nuked myself at least two dozen times. Plus that still takes time.
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Feb 20, 2018 06:34
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It would be great for getting rid of biter creep if you didn't have to put up the laser wall anyway to deal with the biters that rush your base once you open fire on them. And since you've put in all that work on a wall already, you don't actually NEED artillery until the green ones start throwing themselves at your wall at super-endgame. I mean, an initial "wall" of large power poles with a single laser turret at the pole base is enough to keep a perimeter for a long time and that's extremely viable as soon as you unlock solar power. Stick those down and you can pretty much forget about biters until blue and then you can just run a wall and some roboports down the line and forget about them again until green. I think the real problem isn't it's effectiveness it's that you get it so late that it's much easier to do a drive-by in your mk2 crammed with exo legs than create this complex supply train. If you got artillery before you had that option, say, with just red green and military, then you'd have a reason not to just double down on lasers and nukes. TBF that's sort of how I feel about flamethrower turrets too, so maybe I'm in the minority? Those things are a lot of "why bother when I can build more lasers, thanks to the atom I have infinite energy anyway" Bhodi fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Feb 20, 2018 |
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Feb 20, 2018 06:55
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Surrounding your entire base with wall is impractical on larger bases especially on railworlds. With an artillery outpost, you only have to defend that area, which is almost certainly a lot less resource (and setup) intensive than surrounding everything. Even encapsulating one outpost can take thousands of walls and hundreds of turrets, and if you're primarily using lasers the idle drain can become significant (creeping up on beacon usage). And supplying a base-surrounding wall of gun/flame turrets is similarly impractical. The biggest advantage of artillery over just running around in PA2 and clearing by hand is that you've got better things to do than pest control, especially in singleplayer. As far as "complex supply train" goes, that's just a logistics problem, and a fun problem to solve at that.
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Feb 20, 2018 12:29
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Roflex posted:Surrounding your entire base with wall is impractical on larger bases especially on railworlds. With an artillery outpost, you only have to defend that area, which is almost certainly a lot less resource (and setup) intensive than surrounding everything. Even encapsulating one outpost can take thousands of walls and hundreds of turrets, and if you're primarily using lasers the idle drain can become significant (creeping up on beacon usage). And supplying a base-surrounding wall of gun/flame turrets is similarly impractical. Post/avatar combo. Fantastic. Also, thanks again for the great newbie advice I received couple of pages earlier. Countless hours further into the game I've learned that they were all incredibly accurate, particularly the one about spacing (double what you think you need, then double it again). Having gotten to building a nuclear power plant (thanks for the design ideas, nuke plant dude couple of pages past) and artillery turrets everywhere, I'm starting to get the hang of critter control and will soonish be building my rocket... if only my base was more effective at producing.
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Feb 20, 2018 13:08
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