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Supplying huge turret walls is a lot easier once you realize you can tile turret -> long-handle inserter -> turret -> long-handle inserter over and over to perfectly distribute ammo to turrets. With the long-handle inserters, the system even works if some of the turrets get destroyed.
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Feb 20, 2018 13:10
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Roflex posted:Surrounding your entire base with wall is impractical on larger bases especially on railworlds. With an artillery outpost, you only have to defend that area, which is almost certainly a lot less resource (and setup) intensive than surrounding everything. Even encapsulating one outpost can take thousands of walls and hundreds of turrets, and if you're primarily using lasers the idle drain can become significant (creeping up on beacon usage). And supplying a base-surrounding wall of gun/flame turrets is similarly impractical. Or maybe there's a defensive technique I'm not understanding? Do the biters not run to attack if they're far enough away or if the train moves on they just sort of mill around the tracks or something? Bhodi fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Feb 20, 2018 |
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Feb 20, 2018 15:17
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Filthy Monkey posted:Okay, I think I am done obsessing over nuclear plants. This is my final one. I tweaked my previous non-moderated 12 reactor design enough that I think it is in a good stopping place. All the pumps help keep the heat exchangers wet, given the lengths involved. I feel like in the late game, I could just drop down another one of these whenever I want additional juice. At 12 reactors the average adjacency bonus is a quite good at 366.67% This was a book I pulled off of factorioprints or maybe reddit? I forget, but it has a 4 and 10 reactor setup showing the sub-powergrid but more importantly has all those delicious pipe connectors. https://pastebin.com/WM2FvWCt
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Feb 20, 2018 15:33
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I got one from factorioprints called Chernobyl Diaries I think, it has a couple configurations and has circuit logic to stop feeding until steam drops low enough. It also has pipe connector blueprints too
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Feb 20, 2018 16:00
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Bhodi posted:Oh definitely, plop one of those turrets in your outposts without question if biters are strong enough to threaten your walls. Or you can an artillery train just do circuits on your outposts. I was just saying, an additional train track behind your turret wall of your main complex doesn't bring a lot of value to the table for the effort to set it up, since, well, you already have that wall there. And it doesn't do a ton on it's own AS a barrier because anything it hits is going to send masses of biters running directly into your base, so you need a wall of some sort. What you're missing is that it acts like a big giant taunt flag, so you only need to heavily defend the artillery instead of having to heavily defend the entire outside of your base.
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Feb 20, 2018 16:07
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Yeah, rather than a wall that has to be able to withstand an attack at any point you know you just have to defend the train stop. So I have a perimeter train, which is a single track and no power poles. Very resource cheep. And you might not even need walls at the train stops if you have uranium ammo and bullet damage buffs. And I toss down radars with solar panels.
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Feb 20, 2018 16:21
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Dancing around it but also if you have artillery coverage of your pollution cloud the only attacks will be on the artillery. Then the end game cadence is you use nukes to clear out new land and artillery to secure it efficiently without running into the trap that perimeter length increases outlandishly with increased area. Arguably use artillery offensively even with nukes too because you could just slam a blueprint down instead of riding out to take care of business but hey nuking bugs is occasionally a leisure activity.
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Feb 20, 2018 16:47
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super fart shooter posted:Compression is back baby! and its better than ever gently caress yes! I'd managed to recreate most of my blueprints with the merge-only approach but there are still some spots I would prefer this approach. Way cheaper smelters early game, too!
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Feb 20, 2018 17:11
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is there a mod that will put blueprint books in books? I'm getting to the point where I have 10 or so of them and I want my space back 
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Feb 20, 2018 18:00
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Bhodi posted:If you think people would use it, you should stick it into a book and add in a bunch of connector recipes as well because making pipes is tedious as hell - I really dig the angled pipe recipes in the one below. If you're looking for more work, did you integrate an integrated sub-setup that will keep the inserters and conbinators powered enough to insert more fuel? The separate power grid you are talking about (usually consisting of a few solar panels and accumulators) is mainly used to stop brownouts from causing a negative feedback loop. It is useful if your moderation scheme is timer based. Your circuit running more slowly means your timer runs more slowly. That means the next set of fuel cells is inserted late, which means further brownouts, which makes your timer run even slower, and so on. A separate power grid can also be useful if the design has a lot of pumps, for the same reason. Pumps not getting enough power chokes the water/steam, which results in even less power, and so on. A moderation scheme based around counting output fuel cells doesn't really need a separate power grid. Sure, the circuit and inserter arm runs a little slower, but the actual power difference will be pretty minimal. You might insert a second late, compared to the timer based setup inserting REALLY late. The timer setup is a little more fragile than counting, given that it requires a separate power grid. It does let you avoid the dry time that purely counting based setups have though. With fast inserters, better counting setups can minimize dry time to one turn of an inserter arm, which is about half a second. Given that a full burn is 200s, that means you are operating for 200s every 200.5s, so your maximum run time will be 99.75%. A timer setup can make the decision to load right before the previous fuel cells come out, resulting in a 100% run time. The other consideration with moderation schemes is syncing. Both timer and counting based approaches can be made to sync the reactors with appropriate circuitry. Syncing with counting is particularly easy if you use something like secondary steel chest storage for spent fuel cells. The chest method adds an extra inserter arm rotation of dry time, but it removes the need for a counter and a latch. It is probably the easiest synced moderation method to understand and implement. If you want to start building your own moderated plant and aren't a circuit expert, that is where I would suggest starting. Bhodi posted:There was also a book I used to have but I deleted it(?) of an expandable setup that I really dug, with a series of blueprints starting with single plant going up to 8 that you could layer and build without having to do a rip-and-replace once you outgrow your current plant. I found that really helpful since you're often really limited on materials when you initially want to switch over to nuclear. https://factorioprints.com/view/-L2Vbi3Ft814dlqBiGXe The one design choice I tend to like on my plants is single-sided hookup. I dislike needing to landfill out the middle of a lake to lay one down, given that robots can't do it. Player time is valuable. I feel like just needing to edge a lake off is much less painful. Filthy Monkey fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Feb 20, 2018 |
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Feb 20, 2018 18:16
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boo_radley posted:is there a mod that will put blueprint books in books? I'm getting to the point where I have 10 or so of them and I want my space back Best you can get, as far as I know, is a mod that will let you set the color of books/prints. https://mods.factorio.com/mod/colored-blueprints-redux
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Feb 20, 2018 20:34
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Artillery Outpost defense:
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Feb 21, 2018 07:12
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The answer is always more trains
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Feb 21, 2018 07:14
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Having just tried out the artillery trains, A++ would recommend. Yeah they should probably be lower in the tech tree, particularly compared to atomics, but it's hard to compete with "Thomas was cross indeed, and he brought his Smith & Wesson to teach some folks a lesson!"
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Feb 21, 2018 07:24
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chairface posted:Having just tried out the artillery trains, A++ would recommend. Yeah they should probably be lower in the tech tree, particularly compared to atomics, but it's hard to compete with "Thomas was cross indeed, and he brought his Smith & Wesson to teach some folks a lesson!" Haha fantastic. Evilreaver posted:Artillery Outpost defense: Aren't flame turrets kind of useless? Don't the bugs outrange them so they get destroyed? Anyway, is there a way to auto-place minefields with construction bots? Or is it just a matter of making a blueprint and just plopping down some fields?
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Feb 21, 2018 11:53
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Flame turrets have the longest range in game
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Feb 21, 2018 12:57
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Vic posted:Flame turrets have the longest range in game Besides artillery turrets you mean :iamafag: Anyway, yeah you're right seems like. I always just assumed they had the same range as handheld/tank flamethrower and never bothered building any. I guess they are handy for the really big bugs?
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Feb 21, 2018 13:04
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Fire turrets are pretty incredible, actually. You can't use 100% fire turrets because they tend to miss the first few bugs in a wave but their damage is nuts, their range is the longest of the turrets, and they set the ground on fire. Bugs also aren't resistant to fire at all so they hurt a lot. Their main disadvantage is they have a fire arc so they can't shoot any direction like guns or lasers but really that doesn't matter all that much.
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Feb 21, 2018 13:52
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I wish we could have cannon and rocket turrets as well. There are some mods that add them, but unlike bullets, cannon shells and rockets are blocked by walls and buildings and the mods that add them use more or less cumbersome workarounds to get around that limitation.
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Feb 21, 2018 14:12
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Nice piece of fish posted:Besides artillery turrets you mean :iamafag: They're real solid for dealing with the big biters. They have a minimum range and only fire in one direction and tend to have trouble with moving targets so you need other types of turrets to cover their weaknesses, but in return for that, they do a lot of damage and leave fields of damaging fire everywhere. I actually find them handy for portable pillboxes, since you don't need to load them individually and they can quickly shred large biter groups. I just added a couple solar panels and a blue assembler to a pillbox blueprint, so I can just toss it down anywhere, throw a stack of oil barrels into the assembler, and all the flamethrowers are ready to go in just a second or two.
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Feb 21, 2018 17:15
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The method I've always used for defending outposts is a local wall lined with laser turrets. It's easy as hell and as long as you have enough power production you're golden. Honestly power is almost a non-issue now that nuclear is an option, and even without nuclear you can stack steam engines pretty easily. To get power out to the outposts I have a mini-fort around each large power pole. Surround the pole with 9 laser turrets and encase it in a double layer wall. It will deal with pretty much any regular biter attack even up to greens. Sure you take some damage occasionally, but if you do a slightly bigger fort every 4-5 poles with repair drones you should be fine, or just ride your rails every now and then and your own drones will fix things up. Yeah, my baseload on my lasers is almost as high as all of my electric furnaces combined (current map has ~2k laser turrets deployed) but it works and it's low-maintenance. Each mining/oil outpost has an artillery turret with a couple arty ammo trains of 3-4 cars each making the rounds of all outposts to refill them. I do want to try replacing some of my laser turrets with flamethrowers though, especially since I just started harvesting another 22000% of oil and my production is now 5X my consumption. I'm getting to the point that I'm hitting the 20 million+ ore deposits and it's real nice. Also, scouting with artillery is amazing. Get the 2nd or 3rd range upgrade and you can do about double radar radius. Disgruntled Bovine fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Feb 21, 2018 |
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Feb 21, 2018 17:58
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Should also be mentioned that the actual fluid consumption of laser turrets is minuscule, 3 per second when firing. Just the pipes to connect them up to your unbarreler or fluid wagon hold ~33 seconds of firing EACH (when full). So light oil might be the most efficient, but if you're defending a pumpjack outpost (or just have a single depleted well somewhere in the middle of a biter path) the actual drain on your overall oil is pretty low even if you use crude. You could run a depleted well -> fluid tank -> flamethrower turrets off a single solar panel + accumulator and it would stay pretty well defended, with a couple gun turrets to cover the inside, and not need to run power to it.
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Feb 21, 2018 18:09
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Aside from the artillery trains and the max capacity reduction for fluid cars, has there been any changes to trains or circuitry between .15 and .16? I'm still on .15 till I finish the project I'm working on, and I wanna make sure my blueprints aren't useless on the next map I run.
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Feb 21, 2018 22:17
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Roflex posted:Should also be mentioned that the actual fluid consumption of laser turrets is minuscule, 3 per second when firing. Just the pipes to connect them up to your unbarreler or fluid wagon hold ~33 seconds of firing EACH (when full). So light oil might be the most efficient, but if you're defending a pumpjack outpost (or just have a single depleted well somewhere in the middle of a biter path) the actual drain on your overall oil is pretty low even if you use crude. You could run a depleted well -> fluid tank -> flamethrower turrets off a single solar panel + accumulator and it would stay pretty well defended, with a couple gun turrets to cover the inside, and not need to run power to it. Light oil does the most damage. That's important.
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Feb 21, 2018 23:52
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I hadn't played with biters on until my most recent map and I was a little wary of them but wanted to get a taste, so I'm playing a map with the rail world setting and maximum water. You get a whole bunch of snaky continents and a few islands and I'm not sure if ores are generated before or after water but they seem to be much rarer than in the other rail world maps I've played. It means I have to expand like crazy but I have just a few choke points I have to defend. It's been fun but artillery trains have been a godsend. I can just build a rain station and a few laser turrets with a wall and send a train there to clear out pretty much everything on the way to the next checkpoint automatically while I build mines and stuff off the rail I just built. One other thing that's helped is that artillery shells have built in radar so I can see if an island is worth landfilling to even if I can't see it all from a radar on land I've already cleared. It also seems to be able to see biters that haven't been revealed yet which is great.
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Feb 22, 2018 00:13
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Angels + Bobs: I've got furnace colums set up, but I want to know what I can do with slag, and what I should do with all the stone? Right now I'm making stone bricks and just storing the slag, but I'm sure it has some use down the line, right?
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Feb 22, 2018 05:49
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Making bricks is the right move for the crushed stone, you're going to be sitting on that slag for a long time but eventually you'll be able to turn it into a mineral slurry with the help of your hopefully massive sulfiric acid surplus. The mineral slurry can be converted into a few different combinations of ores, i found myself using it to get small amounts of gold, uranium, silver or tungsten that i didn't have an existing production chain for.
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Feb 22, 2018 06:12
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Chakan posted:Angels + Bobs: I've got furnace colums set up, but I want to know what I can do with slag, and what I should do with all the stone? Right now I'm making stone bricks and just storing the slag, but I'm sure it has some use down the line, right? If you want to use it: Later on you get the ability to make slag slurry out of slag/crushed stone with sulfuric acid, which you can then use to filter for specific desired ores. If you want to just get rid of it: Crushed Stone + Water = Mineralized water which has no real use unless you're using the algae farming mod. However it CAN just be shoved into a Clarifier to void it, getting rid of your problem. And Slag can just be shoved into a Crusher to become Crushed Stone. That being said, you're totally going to want 100x more stone bricks than you think you need, so cooking a chunk of that stuff up is a good idea anyways.
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Feb 22, 2018 10:29
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You'll always want a supply of Stone (for rails, etc.) and lots of Bricks (Purple science, walls, making general buildings). After that, surplus can go to making mineral catalysts (for combo-refining, e.g. crushed saphirite & jivolite & mineral catalysts -> iron ore) or making ores through crystallisation. Making mineralised water (and sending it to clarifiers) is your just-get-rid-of-it option. I'd recommend the combo-refining over the crystallisation route, but it depends just how far along you are. The eventual full ore-refining chain produces zero slag, so it may be easier if you design your factory with that in mind and convert all your slag into crushed stone. The recipes are slightly more expensive though (you get more slag slurry from slag than the equivalent amount of crushed stone).
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Feb 22, 2018 17:34
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Alkydere posted:If you want to use it: Later on you get the ability to make slag slurry out of slag/crushed stone with sulfuric acid, which you can then use to filter for specific desired ores.
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Feb 22, 2018 17:39
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neogeo0823 posted:Aside from the artillery trains and the max capacity reduction for fluid cars, has there been any changes to trains or circuitry between .15 and .16? I'm still on .15 till I finish the project I'm working on, and I wanna make sure my blueprints aren't useless on the next map I run. So, I take it there's no other changes aside from the above? Again, I just wanna know so I know if I need to change stuff when I hop to .16. In other news, I'm trying to set up a circuit that'll send a train station a <green> signal when the train is full. For some reason, the inactivity condition doesn't seem to respect fluid transfer, so I've got trains leaving when they're like a quarter full of stuff. I need to generate this signal regardless of what's going onto the train, be it ore or circuits or any liquid. I think I might be able to whip something up using the inserters for solids, but the liquid side has me scratching my head. Anyone got any ideas?
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Feb 22, 2018 22:13
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Well you can make a nice latched tank setup that would solve it. Probably a better system though. Tanker Car <- Pump A <- Tank A <- Pump B <- Tank B <- Source. Tank B and Pump A aren't hooked up to anything. Tank A is hooked up to a latch that triggers when empty, and clears when full. Latch sends out a signal that turns on Pump B, and gets sent through a rising edge filter to make your "Green" signal.
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Feb 22, 2018 22:20
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I think the additional operators added to arithmetic combinators showed up in 0.16 but I'm not 100% sure on that. e: Nevermind, wiki says that was 0.15 too. Xerol fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Feb 23, 2018 |
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Feb 23, 2018 06:18
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So people who have made LED displays have done some pretty amazing work. DaveMcW's blueprint here is particularly impressive for a very efficient numerical display with digits you can chain together. You just paste down as many digits as you need, and they connect themselves into a functioning display. https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=193&t=19825&start=60#p282391 It is dead easy to use. You hook up your signal A to the right-most digit, and the display just works. I thought it was a little hard to see though, so I increased the size by a factor of four. I don't quite understand the magic computation that decides if a particular lamp should be lit, but I can at least take the lamp in each position and make it four lamps. I put the display on a moderated eight reactor plant to display the percentage of steam storage that is currently full. Running below full load, you can see it drop down to 26% where it then loads fuel cells, and watch the number go back up. .  I even had it changing the display color to green when the reactors were loaded and white when on steam, but I found the green just made the display harder to read. The reactor has single-sided hookup. There are more water hookups (14) than necessary (10), as the extra throughput lets the reactor run without any pumps. The moderation scheme counts empty fuel cells modulo 8 to sync the reactors and uses a latch to keep the load state. With no timer circuit and no pumps, it should be pretty resilient to brownouts, and definitely doesn't need any sort of protected electric network. It does produce a full 1.1 GW over a 10 hour torture test, though it likely to be a hair short of the theoretical 1120 MW due to not using a timer. I wouldn't be surprised if the steady state were around 1115 MW. Admittedly, it did just occur to me that rotating the plant is likely to make that display kind of hard to read. It would be easy enough to make a version that is flipped upside down, anyway. https://pastebin.com/5QvxHfAU Filthy Monkey fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Feb 23, 2018 |
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Feb 23, 2018 06:33
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neogeo0823 posted:So, I take it there's no other changes aside from the above? Again, I just wanna know so I know if I need to change stuff when I hop to .16. My approach to this is essentially to measure when a certain quantity of liquid has been pumped out to the train. Pretty much the aforementioned M_Gargantua posted:Tanker Car <- Pump A <- Tank A <- Pump B <- Tank B <- Source. setup with : [Train orders] (Fluid loading) Leave when inventory full OR Green signal > 0 (Fluid unloading) Leave when 2s inactivity OR Green signal > 0 The loading stations are set up so that when Tank A drops below a certain level, the latch outputs a Green 1. In addition, Pump A is set to pump only when Green == 0 (so when the level's too low that pump will stop trying to pump). The unloading stations are simpler, but similarly output Green 1 when they're above a threshold. The stations also only turn on if they can give out or accept a full load (I'm not sure if you'd need that as well). The below blueprint is my fluid loading station - it's AngelBobs though so I have no idea what Vanilla-Factorio would do with it : code:
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Feb 23, 2018 14:37
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I updated that eight reactor with steam display to also check for fuel availability in the requester chests. If there is a chest without fuel, it will throw an alert in the corner and play a non-global audio alarm. I figured the constant global audio alarm might be annoying as the plant is getting built. It also won't load the reactors unless each of the chests have fuel. I added a flipped version with a southern hookup too, which needs a separate blueprint because of the display. https://factorioprints.com/view/-L63IKLwHrj1bn0Lgr8r From a logic perspective this is definitely the fanciest reactor I've built.
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Feb 24, 2018 00:05
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i usually play games with levels or natural stopping points. a common response when my wife asks me to do something is "ok, just let me finish this level" or whatever. last night she said "when you finish that level can you do x?" but i was playing factorio. i just laughed at her. i just found a loophole to NEVER DO ANYTHING EVER AGAIN. "sorry, still on this factorio level"
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Feb 24, 2018 01:27
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crabrock posted:i usually play games with levels or natural stopping points. a common response when my wife asks me to do something is "ok, just let me finish this level" or whatever. Did you show her the part where your limbs have horrifically grafted themselves to your mouse/keyboard? In all seriousness, the real trick would be getting her into it and playing a multiplayer game with her.
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Feb 24, 2018 01:33
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Congratulations on your divorce, I guess!
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Feb 24, 2018 01:33
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Mr. Bill posted:Congratulations on your divorce, I guess! Nah, to get divorced he'd have to stop playing Factorio for a moment
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Feb 24, 2018 01:57
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