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Redgrendel2001 posted:And as Euphronius pointed out, it's even more hosed up that "running your team well" basically means don't invest large sums of money in older players who'll spend the back half of their contract on a downhill slide. They really hated his Hinkie Special 4 year minimum deals for rookie free agents and second rounders. I think that had a lot to do with his demise as well.
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 19:52 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 08:53 |
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Kibner posted:stats.nba.com released boxout metrics Is there a "Loud old guy fan screaming 'FOLLOW YOUR SHOT'" metric? Cause the Pacers are in 1st place
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 20:07 |
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Dejan Bimble posted:Scottie Pippen's alma mater, Central Arkansas University, has produced no other NBA players. It's an NAIA school that he entered at 6'1, and left at 6'8. It had an agricultural program that focused on forage recovery for late growth in stock. Is there a connection? Dennis Rodman also went to an NAIA school in S.E. Oklahoma (Southeastern, I think in Durant?) What are the odds of 2 guys like that on a Championship team?
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 20:12 |
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Athanatos posted:Is there a "Loud old guy fan screaming 'FOLLOW YOUR SHOT'" metric? Every white man in the state of Indiana over the age of 40 thinks that they're Bobby Knight
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 20:17 |
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Intruder posted:Assuming Beverley stayed healthy and Lou played like he has been for the Clippers: are the Rockets better this year without making the CP3 trade?
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 20:28 |
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Intruder posted:Intentionally sucking for years so you can one day vie for the 8 seed in the east doesn't seem like the greatest thing for fans to watch
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 20:29 |
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Huh it wasn't that many pages ago when I was wondering aloud why Mitch Kupchak never got a new GM job. Sure his late career had some missteps but I think they're about as equal to his early strong achievements and with the former you can ponder how much of it was Jimmy Buss'd up. Glad he's getting another shot...now I'm waiting for Hinkie to get one too... on the third day he will rise from the dead
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 20:44 |
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Intruder posted:Trade your chaff for Jimmy Harden, then a few years later trade a beloved player and a godlike Lou Williams for CP3 with those two moves sandwiching improbably discovering an elite swiss center in the latter part of the first round Of the top 10 centers by WS this season and last season combined, five are lottery picks, five were taken later than the 20th pick. I think scouting of bigs is worse than other positions for some reason.
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 20:52 |
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Are you including KAT and AD and zinger.
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 20:54 |
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euphronius posted:Are you including KAT and AD and zinger. BBREF didn’t count AD but Porzingis does t make the cut (8.1ws is 29th in the league because Porzingis isn’t all that great). It’s KAT, Valanciunas, Drummond, Adams, Horford from the lottery, Capela, Jokic, Gobert, Jordan, and Whiteside from the end of the draft.
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 21:01 |
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euphronius posted:Are you including KAT and AD and zinger. Assuming he's using this search, no he is not. e: apparently not quite the same search IcePhoenix fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Feb 20, 2018 |
# ? Feb 20, 2018 21:01 |
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DeimosRising posted:BBREF didn’t count AD but Porzingis does t make the cut (8.1ws is 29th in the league because Porzingis isn’t all that great). It’s KAT, Valanciunas, Drummond, Adams, Horford from the lottery, Capela, Jokic, Gobert, Jordan, and Whiteside from the end of the draft. The international "misses" make sense. They've all grown substantially since they were playing euro ball. Whiteside and Jordan I don't know.
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 21:06 |
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The Process is ongoing and anyone making a sincere critique about its effectiveness is being petty at this point. If either of Embiid or Simmons (Fultz too, obviously) end up an All NBA player or MVP candidate within a few years, then it's a success. The point of comparison isn't other teams but where the Sixers were when the whole thing started, which was a team that was dreadfully mediocre and then gutted its meandering future for Andrew Bynum (people forget about this wrinkle too often). Hinkie came into an already broken team and is most guilty of not being a guy who gave people like Luol Deng and Mozgov albatross contracts to keep fake confidence in the team. Also, assuming the Sixers end up in the playoffs in 6-8, not all lower seeded teams are the same. There's a huge difference between an up and coming team hitting their stride for the first time and a veteran/capped out team maxing out as a 6th seed like the Bobcat Hornets. Even if they lose in the first round, I think there will naturally be higher expectations going forward. And if they become perennial playoff 2nd or 3rd round losers, at least the process debate will be much more interesting.
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 21:06 |
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euphronius posted:The international "misses" make sense. They've all grown substantially since they were playing euro ball.
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 21:10 |
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euphronius posted:The international "misses" make sense. They've all grown substantially since they were playing euro ball. Whiteside fell because he was (still is?) a low effort dumbass
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 21:11 |
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Whiteside fell because he was (still is?) a low effort dumbass the story about him checking himself out in a two way mirror will always make me laugh
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 21:12 |
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Punkin Spunkin posted:Huh it wasn't that many pages ago when I was wondering aloud why Mitch Kupchak never got a new GM job. Apparently Charlotte hasn't even reached out to Kupchak yet so it's pretty far from a sure thing. Not sure why they'd leak his name at all if it wasn't a sure thing, but I get why Woj is running with it. The team president says they're going to interview a half-dozen people and have someone in place by the end of the season.
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 21:14 |
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DeimosRising posted:Of the top 10 centers by WS this season and last season combined, five are lottery picks, five were taken later than the 20th pick. I think scouting of bigs is worse than other positions for some reason. Funny enough, the plan was to stash Capela in Europe for a few years but he forced the Rockets hand. I guess it worked out
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 21:18 |
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Intruder posted:Assuming Beverley stayed healthy and Lou played like he has been for the Clippers: are the Rockets better this year without making the CP3 trade? No, Patrick Beverley + Lou Williams does not equal Crisp Haul
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 21:23 |
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WhyteRyce posted:I remember some article about the Mavs 5 or so years ago about how they reloaded instead of rebuilt because Cuban is a genius that zigs when everyone zags and therefore hits on market inefficiencies like Monta Ellis Even better, here is an article from like 350 days ago where Cuban pats himself on the back for finishing a rebuild in a year.
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 21:26 |
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Mr. Mambold posted:Dennis Rodman also went to an NAIA school in S.E. Oklahoma (Southeastern, I think in Durant?) What are the odds of 2 guys like that on a Championship team? I wonder how many times it's ever happened
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 21:48 |
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Kibner posted:stats.nba.com released boxout metrics The hustle package is nice http://stats.nba.com/players/hustle/?sort=DEFLECTIONS&dir=1 This is a list of guys who contest shots well Paul George is very good, Eric Bledsoe uses his long arms to contest shots that players think will fly free. WhyteRyce posted:Tanking is a tragedy of the commons type thing. I get why teams do it, I get why it's necessary, I get the appeal, I get the strategy, I want the Kings to do it, all of that. But if half the teams in the league were all blatantly The Processing it then it wouldn't work. About 1/3 of the league seems to be attempting and failing to tank, to some degree. It's a risky strategy that still might not pay off if you draft perfectly, trade James Harden and have a bad medical staff, and you let your young stars strangle the offense in crunch time to the point that one wants to leave due to constant failure. The best strategy I can see is to have one of the best players in history born nearby and to have the league award you the first pick as many times as necessary to get him on your team and reacquire him if he leaves. The second best is to be not bad enough and draft in the mid rather than early lottery, injure your best player to sign him to a far below future value deal, then use prayer based team building to lure a toolsy forward from a rival, fire the prayer guy for someone who knows how basketball should be played, and have so much fun beating everyone that the second best player in the league takes a pay cut to come play with you. The Clippers lost for decades and it got them nothing. You need good scouts, good coaches, good trainers, good luck, good everything. Sometimes you get a scrappy undersized center from a tiny Virginia college in a superstar salary sign and trade, acquire a high lottery point guard from an impatient team, and then get an incredibly versatile forward who can defend and shoot threes for the price of Bob Sura, because he doesn't want to play for a mediocre and listless team who he was traded to one day ago. Other times you tank for precisely one year at a time to acquire the best defensive center in modern basketball history, and import foreign players, get everyone to sign for cheap because of team building wine tasting sessions, and beat the team with 3 of the best 6 players in the league by giving their overly muscled bodies cramps after tampering with the air conditioning. Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Feb 20, 2018 |
# ? Feb 20, 2018 21:52 |
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Sixers fans and Raptors fans arguing about the Lakers run and its sustainability is weird.DeimosRising posted:Of the top 10 centers by WS this season and last season combined, five are lottery picks, five were taken later than the 20th pick. I think scouting of bigs is worse than other positions for some reason. I think some of it is that it's really hard to draft a guy who has no offensive potential at all, and teams would rather draft a big with nice form on his jumper than is an athlete with no offensive ability. Which leads to a lot of post-10 "well he kind of hits shots, or at least he looks like he can hit a shot, we can probably athletic him up." It looks like it is in fact difficult to improve the athleticism of bigs (I do think the NBA does a pretty good job of getting guards who aren't great athletes to be at the very least acceptable by an NBA standard). Also "you can't teach height" so the NBA shies away from guys under 7 feet, even if they're complete, or at least have the strong potential to be complete packages. Frankly most of the front offices who have been picking in the 20s recently are better than the ones picking in the teens, and the teams picking in the 10s should just in theory have easier decisions. This is my unsupported hypothesis on this. morestuff posted:Apparently Charlotte hasn't even reached out to Kupchak yet so it's pretty far from a sure thing. Not sure why they'd leak his name at all if it wasn't a sure thing, but I get why Woj is running with it. Cho is one of Woj's regular sources over the years so maybe this is just why Cho thinks he's not being retained. I think Cho is not bad and it looks like Paul Allen is to blame for more of what were my perceived problems with Cho back in the day.
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 21:56 |
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Fast Luck posted:Whiteside was a high upside guy with character question marks who initially washed out of the league after being drafted, so it wasn't really that scouts missed on him, but that he turned his career around and reached his potential years later. And Jordan was ultra raw and not very good when he got drafted. He didnt really do anything in the NBA until his third season and wasn't a star until his 5th or 6th. Sometimes lottery tickets hit
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 21:59 |
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MourningView posted:And Jordan was ultra raw and not very good when he got drafted. He didnt really do anything in the NBA until his third season and wasn't a star until his 5th or 6th. Sometimes lottery tickets hit Let's hope the Maple Jordan follows this timeline! That'd sure be swell.
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 22:01 |
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iamsosmrt posted:The Process is ongoing and anyone making a sincere critique about its effectiveness is being petty at this point. If either of Embiid or Simmons (Fultz too, obviously) end up an All NBA player or MVP candidate within a few years, then it's a success. The point of comparison isn't other teams but where the Sixers were when the whole thing started, which was a team that was dreadfully mediocre and then gutted its meandering future for Andrew Bynum (people forget about this wrinkle too often). Hinkie came into an already broken team and is most guilty of not being a guy who gave people like Luol Deng and Mozgov albatross contracts to keep fake confidence in the team. The Sixers this year are basically what OKC was in '09-'10. They have a couple guys who look like guaranteed superstars assuming they remain healthy, plus some very good prospects and a lot of flexibility. Any fan who wouldn't relish that chance is either incredibly spoiled or crazy. I would trade the Blazers' last 4 playoff seasons for that situation in a heartbeat.
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 22:03 |
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Papercut posted:The Sixers this year are basically what OKC was in '09-'10. They have a couple guys who look like guaranteed superstars assuming they remain healthy, plus some very good prospects and a lot of flexibility. Any fan who wouldn't relish that chance is either incredibly spoiled or crazy. I would trade the Blazers' last 4 playoff seasons for that situation in a heartbeat. The returns diminish quickly the more teams decide to give up on a season. And it undermines the unspoken agreement that this sport is a TV show that's meant to be entertaining to viewers. If you, the GM, put out lovely TV product, like the 'not even pretending to try' sixers, the league will destroy you, replace you with you with somebody's idiot son and will probably give Cleveland your team's draft pick. Everyone signed those huge deals in 2016 so that they could spend up to the cap and pretend they were trying, but they're just so cash strapped, "how could we have known that this mediocre or bad player would continue to be who he was, we can't do anything about it." It's as clear as a drinking glass
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 22:09 |
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MourningView posted:And Jordan was ultra raw and not very good when he got drafted. He didnt really do anything in the NBA until his third season and wasn't a star until his 5th or 6th. Sometimes lottery tickets hit I can't remember where I read this, but apparently Jordan also hated his college coach and so he basically put in no effort while at school, both on and off the court.
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 22:12 |
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https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/966032920870834176 I know jack and poo poo about this guy, but the name makes me laugh.
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 22:14 |
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Kibner posted:https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/966032920870834176 I hope the team incorporates a lemon party joke in somewhere.
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 22:22 |
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How do you even improve scouting? I think I heard somewhere that high school scouting has gotten a lot better and one and done prospects as a result are hitting sooner. Does it make sense for a team to throw a ton of money into scouting and development if it means they'll be able to bring guys closer to their potential?
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 22:26 |
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Kibner posted:https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/966032920870834176 Cool, Walter Matthau and Jack Lemmon reincarnated into a shared body
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 22:29 |
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NBA's ratings are really good this season, even on RSNs:quote:The NBA continues to buck the television ratings trend, with both national and local viewership showing impressive gains as the league headed into the All-Star break.
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 22:30 |
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Zogo did the NBA reward the Sixers with the Ben Simmons pick in exchange for hiring Colangelo and forcing out Hinkie?
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 22:34 |
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Papercut posted:The Sixers this year are basically what OKC was in '09-'10. They have a couple guys who look like guaranteed superstars assuming they remain healthy, plus some very good prospects and a lot of flexibility. Any fan who wouldn't relish that chance is either incredibly spoiled or crazy. I would trade the Blazers' last 4 playoff seasons for that situation in a heartbeat. Well sure, if your metric for success is "more promising long term than the Blazers", then you'd also trade their last 4 playoff seasons for about half the teams in the league. The Sixers aren't the first team to ever have a few promising (injury prone) young guys, a small payroll and some draft picks.
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 22:56 |
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Fire Marv https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_WC-J_BB5E
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 23:11 |
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The B_36 posted:Well sure, if your metric for success is "more promising long term than the Blazers", then you'd also trade their last 4 playoff seasons for about half the teams in the league. The Sixers aren't the first team to ever have a few promising (injury prone) young guys, a small payroll and some draft picks. Do you rate every sports management strategy in binary? To the biggest "victims" of the process, Sixers fans, it's already been a pretty big success. The amount of hope the fanbase has gotten is a huge part of why people have accepted it and gotten onboard.
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 23:17 |
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I really wasn't tired of the Lakers losing until Earvin decided he wanted to repeat mistakes that the previous front office learned a lesson from again. Like is the backup plan to tank again for the 2019 draft if everyone says no again? Too bad so many of the good 2019 class hopped into the 2018 class.
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 23:19 |
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Bulls fire up the tank https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/966071774780837890 https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/966072242080833536 https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/966072993301622786
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 23:20 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 08:53 |
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xbilkis posted:Bulls fire up the tank
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# ? Feb 20, 2018 23:21 |