|
Chazani posted:I'm currently going through the motions of getting my diagnosis. I'm 35 years old now. Not surprisingly I have a variety of former issues in my life including very severe depression and complete alienation for a few years. I did manage to complete a master's degree in philosophy after the depression, but now when I need to actually get to adult life things started to be way too tricky. I was 32, it took about 2 years for me start to end. (Though some of that was my own ADD holding me back) You can't believe how much of a difference it's going to make. It's totally worth the fight. And once you get your meds right you will realise how easy everyone else has it. It's seems like you might have most of the helpful things in place already, structure and routine. Meds for me just help maintain them without the exhaustion.
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2018 10:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 22:01 |
|
|
BoneMonkey posted:I was 32, it took about 2 years for me start to end. (Though some of that was my own ADD holding me back) That's great to hear about the meds. Upkeeping a healthy routine exhausts me and it is really hard to achieve much else besides it. But I rather not live the chaotic way anymore, even if it helped me achieve something occassionally.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2018 11:32
|
|
|
Mechafunkzilla posted:Talk to a sleep specialist about your daytime sleepiness, ADHD has genetic polymorphism with some circadian rhythm disorders. My DSPD diagnosis and treatment was life-changing. Can you elaborate a bit on this? I have always had crushing fatigue in the daytime and seasonal bouts of insomnia. Right now it's causing me to miss a lot of school, and they're on my rear end about truancy 
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2018 11:53
|
|
|
Chazani posted:I'm currently going through the motions of getting my diagnosis. I'm 35 years old now. Not surprisingly I have a variety of former issues in my life including very severe depression and complete alienation for a few years. I did manage to complete a master's degree in philosophy after the depression, but now when I need to actually get to adult life things started to be way too tricky. The effort of forcing yourself to focus really is exhausting with ADHD, it is possible for short periods, possibly months, but I can totally understand that a PhD would just be too long to sustain. I think you will have a much better time once you have started treatment. Talking therapy may well help to an extent but from what i read most people with ADHD do best on medication. Can I ask where you are? Your writing doesn't read like you are in the US, if you are elsewhere it might not be too hard to get drug treatment? I was diagnosed last year and it explained a lot about how I work, or rather don't. I started treatment with stimulant medication this year and it has made a world of difference. The anxiety I had of constantly being behind with work (and needing that pressure to have enough motivation to focus) has evaporated and I am a much happier person.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2018 12:59
|
|
|
knox_harrington posted:The effort of forcing yourself to focus really is exhausting with ADHD, it is possible for short periods, possibly months, but I can totally understand that a PhD would just be too long to sustain. I think you will have a much better time once you have started treatment. Talking therapy may well help to an extent but from what i read most people with ADHD do best on medication. I live in Finland. Thus the process is heavily regulated. Main problem is good old scandinavian bureaucracy. Adult ADD is not classified as an urgent condition. For most conditions it is required by law that you get an appointment within 6 months. With ADD you end up last on the waiting list and that can push the waiting time easily closer to an year. Primary treatment by the book for adult ADD is therapy and support groups. Medication is only meant as a side help to those. This means that occasionally getting the meds can be trickier, but it has improved recently luckily. I'm currently in the first phase which is quick evaluation by a psychiatric nurse. Few interviews, few tests and collecting old papers. Then psychiatrist evaluates you if you need more treatment. This process takes 2-3 months total. From there you get sent to the neuropsychiatry department, which has the longer wait, and once again a barrage of tests, gathering up evidence and finally the decision on the diagnosis. Good part is, that this all is very cheap. Annoying part is the wait time. For some strange reason I lack patience... And yeah, my working habits are terrible. Most of my uni studies went with 8 months of nothing and then all the studies in the last month. Which left me too exhausted to do much during summer. Even now I have my chinese work half finished and the class starts in an hour or so. I also clearly hate myself for voluntarily studying chinese in my free time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2018 13:28
|
|
|
I've been kind of going back and forth between concerta (10mg) and Vyvanse (18mg). It's weird because originally, Vyvanse made me feel like absolute poo poo. Because of that, my doctor switched me to Concerta, which I felt did nothing and am probably going to up my dosage of that (which is part of my prescription). However, after running out of Concerta, I used some Vyvanse until I refilled my Concerta and wow, it's like night and day compared to last time I was on it. What the hell happened?
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2018 14:23
|
|
|
Chazani posted:I live in Finland. The low access to medication is a shame. I guess you will need to see what help you can get through the health service. If you can get diagnosed maybe at some point you can get a private prescription somewhere. [I googled "ADHD Finland" and ended up reading an article by some rear end in a top hat British novelist who doesn't agree ADHD exists (and has written a book on it). rear end in a top hat] Best of luck
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2018 19:59
|
|
|
Vladimir Poutine posted:That's a microscopic dose (like it's 1/6th of what I was taking when I was 8 years old), so titrating upwards is probably on the cards Ok, thanks. I'm still struggling mentally with this, as it's hard for me to come to terms that it could be a mental condition and not just willpower that I cannot concentrate in work. At the very least, the improvement at work helps reinforcing that I'm doing the correct move.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2018 03:37
|
|
|
Tias posted:Can you elaborate a bit on this? I have always had crushing fatigue in the daytime and seasonal bouts of insomnia. Right now it's causing me to miss a lot of school, and they're on my rear end about truancy The part of the brain that doesn't develop properly with ADHD also regulates the pineal gland, which controls the release of sleep-wake hormones. It's not deterministic but this basically means that if you have ADHD, you are more likely to have a circadian rhythm disorder. Conversely, sometimes people can have a sleeping disorder like sleep apnea, and be misdiagnosed with ADHD because sleep deprivation impairs executive functioning in a similar way to ADHD. Basically, if you have issues around sleep and feeling tired, go to a sleep specialist. Most doctors and even therapists and psychiatrists don't know poo poo about sleep disorders.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2018 04:39
|
|
|
Eeepies posted:Ok, thanks. I'm still struggling mentally with this, as it's hard for me to come to terms that it could be a mental condition and not just willpower that I cannot concentrate in work. At the very least, the improvement at work helps reinforcing that I'm doing the correct move. The strict schedule thing is a pretty good idea I think, or at least some order. Until you have medication you could try a self CBT course of some kind, exercising, and getting sleep, though each of these could be tough until medicated they're at least good goals to have. I don't know if this is helpful, but I think it was helpful for me to think of it more as: people exist along a distribution of executive control, and some parts of that range have become tough to deal with given the very bizarre demands of modern society. So, medication makes sense, but it isn't really a disorder so much as a mismatch between your brain's functioning/your environment's expectations.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2018 05:10
|
|
|
The best thing you can do without (or in addition to) medication is to change your environment. The impairment is in your brain's ability to use your goals to activate memory and generate motivation and focus, and something like CBT -- which is great for addressing negative thoughts about yourself or anxiety that might have developed as a result of living with ADHD your whole life -- isn't going to to address that core impairment. If working collaboratively helps you focus, try to make more of your work group oriented. If you're always losing your keys, put a table with a dish right next to the front door so you see it every time you walk inside, so that it's not a matter of remembering. Schedules are great if you can make them work for you, but you're just as likely to not use or forget to use the schedule as a result of the impairment you're trying to address, so it's important to be compassionate towards yourself. "Deciding to be stricter" with yourself is setting yourself up for failure, because it was never a problem with your priorities or values in the first place. Fusion Restaurant posted:I don't know if this is helpful, but I think it was helpful for me to think of it more as: people exist along a distribution of executive control, and some parts of that range have become tough to deal with given the very bizarre demands of modern society. So, medication makes sense, but it isn't really a disorder so much as a mismatch between your brain's functioning/your environment's expectations. I don't agree with the idea of a fluid continuum of executive functioning and it being about "fitting the demands of modern society", there's a pretty clear distinction between most individuals with and without ADHD both in terms of behavioral functioning and neurology. People with ADHD have less grey matter in their prefrontal cortex, that's wasn't advantageous 10,000 years ago either. Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Feb 21, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2018 06:07
|
|
|
My GP appointment is coming up in two weeks where hopefully I’ll get the referral to the neurologist I want along with a possible script for non-control depression/anxiety meds (my psychologist says she sees a lot of clients on duloxetine plus the psychiatric nurses she works with speak well of it). I’m in the US on private, sorta lousy insurance through work. What are some things that helped those of you broaching this to a GP for the first time? Last year when I brought this up I did tell the doc about my anxiety and CBT but I wanted to avoid meds, but now I think I’m coming to a point where they just can’t be avoided any longer. I’ve made progress in recognizing my anxiety, but it seems that was potentially a symptom of my suspected brain issues to begin with.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2018 15:54
|
|
|
SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:My GP appointment is coming up in two weeks where hopefully I’ll get the referral to the neurologist I want along with a possible script for non-control depression/anxiety meds (my psychologist says she sees a lot of clients on duloxetine plus the psychiatric nurses she works with speak well of it). I’m in the US on private, sorta lousy insurance through work. What are some things that helped those of you broaching this to a GP for the first time? Last year when I brought this up I did tell the doc about my anxiety and CBT but I wanted to avoid meds, but now I think I’m coming to a point where they just can’t be avoided any longer. I’ve made progress in recognizing my anxiety, but it seems that was potentially a symptom of my suspected brain issues to begin with. Honestly you should be talking to a psychiatrist about this, not a GP.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2018 16:09
|
|
|
Mechafunkzilla posted:Honestly you should be talking to a psychiatrist about this, not a GP. I have to get a referral to a psychiatrist based on my insurance plan is my understanding (and my deductible is so big none of my psych stuff is paid for anyway).
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2018 17:13
|
|
|
Well, my boss just moved me to another floor in the office, where I'm surrounded by people and thus cannot simply browse other websites without people realising, so hopefully this helps. Thanks for the advice though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2018 04:23
|
|
|
Eeepies posted:Well, my boss just moved me to another floor in the office, where I'm surrounded by people and thus cannot simply browse other websites without people realising, so hopefully this helps. Thanks for the advice though. That's great. Setting check ins with someone you trust about how you've progressed with work can help too I think. Mechafunkzilla posted:The best thing you can do without (or in addition to) medication is to change your environment. The impairment is in your brain's ability to use your goals to activate memory and generate motivation and focus, and something like CBT -- which is great for addressing negative thoughts about yourself or anxiety that might have developed as a result of living with ADHD your whole life -- isn't going to to address that core impairment. If working collaboratively helps you focus, try to make more of your work group oriented. If you're always losing your keys, put a table with a dish right next to the front door so you see it every time you walk inside, so that it's not a matter of remembering. quote:I don't agree with the idea of a fluid continuum of executive functioning and it being about "fitting the demands of modern society", there's a pretty clear distinction between most individuals with and without ADHD both in terms of behavioral functioning and neurology. Hm I'm having a hard time articulating this well, but I don't think of anything I said as at odds with this. Executive functioning, working memory, etc. being a normally distributed continuum, with ADHD people a standard deviation or two below the mean, doesn't mean that there isn't a clear distinction between those with ADHD and those without on average, it just means they can still be drawn from the same distribution which is due to natural variation. Similarly, given the time scale of evolution it's very likely that as many people with the level of functioning of ADHD people existed 10,000 years ago, but this deficit became a much bigger problem and more noticeable with the demands of industrial society/knowledge work etc. I think both of those observations are consistent with science, such as it is, on ADHD, it's just a different way of looking at it. For me, thinking of ADHD not as a (quite harmful ofc) difference in degree, not difference in kind, and as a result of an interaction of my natural abilities with the environment was really useful. (The whole "was ADHD ever being advantageous" thing has always seemed like a bit of an evolutionary psych rabbit hole to me given that we don't have time machines, and it doesn't change what you should do about the problem in the present, but it is at least interesting that eg alleles which correlate with ADHD seem to keep getting selected for by evolution. There are some interesting but maybe totally BS evolutionary psych papers on why this occurred + some speculation about how it may have conferred a group advantage to have some individuals with ADHD, even if it may have been individually bad for them)
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2018 07:07
|
|
|
It doesn't have to have had to be advantageous, it just has to be not disadvantageous enough to confer a reproductive penalty. Genetic diversity in a species is a strength that enables it to survive changing environments, so lots of traits that are not "advantageous" are kept around. Evolution isn't directed toward better, it's directed toward "performs optimally in this niche" You can make some evo psyc argument that some ADHD traits are useful (ability to hyperfocus, attention to other stimuli that might be overlooked by others) but realistically, it's around because it doesn't harm reproductive fitness to be around (so far). The science of the genetics is really interesting; 23&me give you access to the raw SNP data and companies like promethease let you cross reference that data with SNPedia which associates the research on specific polymorphisms with certain phenotypes. ADHD is unsurprisingly associated with SNPs on the dopamine transporter sequence, amongst others.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2018 16:34
|
|
|
SuperiorColliculus posted:It doesn't have to have had to be advantageous, it just has to be not disadvantageous enough to confer a reproductive penalty. These are all good points. Plus, a lot of the evo psych stuff is pretty clearly coming from a place of denial, selling to parents who prefer to think "my child doesn't have a disorder, he's just a hunter-gatherer" or similar nonsense. SuperiorColliculus, you're a brain science man, I have a weird small question for you: what do you call an inherited trait where gene expression isn't affected by environmental factors? So like, the opposite of epigenetic. Is it 'innate'? I was talking with someone about ADHD etiology and was having trouble with terms.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2018 17:00
|
|
|
Huh, I actually... Don't know. I'm not a geneticist I'm more of a neurophysiologist. I would say it's something like "obligatory genotypical" or something. I can ask my dev bio friend today - I hazard she knows.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2018 17:03
|
|
|
SuperiorColliculus posted:Huh, I actually... Don't know. I'm not a geneticist I'm more of a neurophysiologist. I would say it's something like "obligatory genotypical" or something. I can ask my dev bio friend today - I hazard she knows. Thanks! I know, it's not exactly an obscure concept, but I guess because epigenetics is such a young field the terms haven't become widespread yet.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2018 17:06
|
|
|
SuperiorColliculus posted:but realistically, it's around because it doesn't harm reproductive fitness to be around (so far). Yeah, this is definitely it. I don't buy into ADHD being any kind of advantage to anyone, but I don't think ADHD was/is any disadvantage at all to the vast, vast majority of past and present humanity - Except to the extremely minuscule part of it that lives in the modern world and is expected to sit in a classroom and study for a good chunk of the day for decades, and then get a sedentary job in a office.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2018 11:57
|
|
|
Hello ADD/ADHD thread! I am a long time lurker and now a full member of the  contingent. I'm on Atomoxetine and thanks to the advice here, took it with some food this morning and all seems to be well stomach wise.I'm trying to figure out how to judge the effectiveness vs. placebo effect. I'm told it takes a few days to really ramp up in the system, 25mg for the first week, then 50 thereafter, but how quickly do psychological effects take place?
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2018 15:01
|
|
|
ewiley posted:Hello ADD/ADHD thread! I am a long time lurker and now a full member of the A good question for your psychiatrist.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2018 15:05
|
|
|
Mechafunkzilla posted:A good question for your psychiatrist. Haha, well of course, just curious what others have done to see the difference.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2018 15:10
|
|
|
Mechafunkzilla posted:A good question for your psychiatrist.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2018 15:17
|
|
|
These drugs dont seem to effect us all the same way. Hope for the best and adjust the dose strength before moving on to the next drug. It's like trying to find the right pair of glasses for you.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2018 16:47
|
|
|
BoneMonkey posted:These drugs dont seem to effect us all the same way. Fair enough.. I need to be patient and see what happens. I'm pretty sure that a placebo can't keep me focused for days at a time  Thanks!
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2018 20:07
|
|
|
Oh, and at least for me I had good days (few) and bad days (many) before I got on the right dose of Concerta. But I still get bad days. Just a lot less of them. So if that happens to you it doesn't mean that the meds are not working.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2018 21:13
|
|
|
Yeah, this stuff varies a lot person to person. I (95 kg guy in my late twenties) and my brother (like ~60kg 16 year old kid) both have ADD, and are both on Concerta. I'm on the minimum dose (18mg in a slow release pill). I still feel pretty wired for a couple of hours when the drugs kick in. If I take two (36mg) I get straight up high. My brother, who is barely 2/3rd of my weight, is on a 54mg, triple the dosage, and says he doesn't feel any side effects at all.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 10:32
|
|
|
Geisladisk posted:Yeah, this stuff varies a lot person to person. Interesting! It's kind of freaky to me how these things work, the Strattera literature basically says straight up "we've no idea why this treats ADD, but it does! v v"
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2018 00:51
|
|
|
Drugs that have to cross the blood-brain barrier tend to be like that, with effective dose relatively independent of bodyweight. With Strattera, we know what it does -- it keeps more norepinephrine in your brain -- it's more that they haven't hashed out the exact link between norepinephrine and ADHD symptoms. But they know that it's a neurotransmitter that's involved in things like sustaining attention and energy, so it's not like it's a total mystery.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2018 04:36
|
|
|
Welp, today I start on Concerta 24mg. Let's see if I can somehow better manage to be a team lead! 
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2018 14:39
|
|
|
Concerta is pretty good, the only real downside for me is that drinking coffee with it makes me piss like a fire hydrant for some reason. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2018 16:27
|
|
|
Is that why I'm peeing so much??! Also yeah, while not without side effects Concerta is the goddamn best. (And fyi, in case this is a problem for you. No it doesn't make you less creative. It just makes you less randomly creative. Less big ideas for something that isn't useful for you right now. And more of a slow drip of useful ideas on the things you are actually working on. )
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2018 16:32
|
|
|
Stop drinking caffeine when you're on stimulants ya maroons
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2018 16:34
|
|
|
Mechafunkzilla posted:Stop drinking caffeine when you're on stimulants ya maroons but i like it
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2018 16:44
|
|
|
Geisladisk posted:but i like it decaf
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2018 16:46
|
|
|
Mechafunkzilla posted:Stop drinking caffeine when you're on stimulants ya maroons I actually did. I didn't need it anymore. But then they switch my Brand to Xiaidate (which is poo poo btw) so then I needed it again. Now Im back on Concerta, I have to work on kicking it again 
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2018 04:11
|
|
|
Mechafunkzilla posted:Drugs that have to cross the blood-brain barrier tend to be like that, with effective dose relatively independent of bodyweight. Ah, that makes sense. I'm finishing up week 1 and it's...good? I get an attention boost but still get distracted, but I'm kinda consumed by what distracts me. I think this is probably more a self-discipline thing than the meds at this point. I feel like if I pull myself back to the task-at-hand, I can get back to work with minimal disruption. It's cool to have this kind of control. I can feel some anti-depressant effect (even though I'm not depressed), I feel almost happier than should be natural at times. Not really giddy but just not knee-jerk annoyed at every little thing. Pdoc wants me to up the dose to 2x25/day, do people usually take them at the same time in the morning, or spread out through the day? I'm leaning toward one in the morning, and one around noon. Doc's order just says 'take two'.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 21:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 22:01 |
|
|
ewiley posted:Ah, that makes sense. I'm finishing up week 1 and it's...good? I get an attention boost but still get distracted, but I'm kinda consumed by what distracts me. I think this is probably more a self-discipline thing than the meds at this point. I feel like if I pull myself back to the task-at-hand, I can get back to work with minimal disruption. It's cool to have this kind of control. Call your doctor and ask.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2018 07:28
|
|