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Pener Kropoopkin posted:*after a string of mass shooters who are all incel chuds* The literal title of the article is "The Boys are Not Alright"
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Feb 23, 2018 01:07
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https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/966781463365636101 bari weiss sure does know a lot about politics
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Feb 23, 2018 02:11
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Shear Modulus posted:https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/966781463365636101 the speed was roughly equivalent to the forward passage of time
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Feb 23, 2018 02:15
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Dmitri-9 posted:People in power listen to these assholes, their actions are justified by these assholes a stance only held by editors of the new york times and the proles who whine about it for some reason
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Feb 23, 2018 02:28
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as we all know, Obama cowered before Paul Krugman's mighty regular column in the NYT. A REGULAR COLUMN
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Feb 23, 2018 02:29
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the NYT and other propaganda papers do shape public opinion mass censorship and mass propaganda, lying, and smearing was necessary on the part of the NYT and their ilk to push for example the iraq war
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Feb 23, 2018 02:35
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*extremly media analysis* In september 2016, the NYtimes declared Trump to be the worst candidate in modern history, dealing a fatal blow to his presidential hopes
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Feb 23, 2018 02:38
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the media gave trump an estimated $6 billion worth of air time
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Feb 23, 2018 02:47
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CombineThresher posted:Is that not the "problem with boys" he's referring to? Angry teenage boys getting drawn into incel chudhood is the exact masculine toxicity he's describing. Incel chudhood is the symptomatic expression of a society which is too at-odds with itself to develop a constructive definition of masculinity, and rather neglects scores of people to alienation in the name of "freedom." The problem isn't "us" and it's not "we," the issue is a particular political orientation which reflexively reinforces toxic masculinity over and over again. I'm not going to give the author credit for wanting to start a "conversation," because he's too much of a loving coward to name the enemy or the solution. If the issue of toxic masculinity is to be overcome it means embracing without reservation, queerness. Not "starting a conversation" or whatever other pathetic liberal platitude that's rooted in the pretension of legitimate opposition. We need a queer society. e: imagine the look on my face when I realized I was abstracting the author in my mind as some Platonic lib, only to see it's Michael Ian Black lmfao Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 03:05 on Feb 23, 2018 |
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Feb 23, 2018 02:59
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Shear Modulus posted:https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/966781463365636101 matty g is, not quite good, but he’s def not bad now https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/966838481472446464
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Feb 23, 2018 03:04
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the bitcoin of weed posted:it's absolutely not an issue because nobody at the NYT except the actual nazi they hired has ever faced consequences for a social media frenzy They have absolutely participated in, fomented, and profited from outrage culture though. ate shit on live tv has issued a correction as of 03:32 on Feb 23, 2018 |
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Feb 23, 2018 03:30
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The problem isn't "us" and it's not "we," the issue is a particular political orientation which reflexively reinforces toxic masculinity over and over again. I'm not going to give the author credit for wanting to start a "conversation," because he's too much of a loving coward to name the enemy or the solution. That's totally fair, and now I have a much clearer idea of where you're coming from. I have to admit, I was pretty rankled by his "men/boys are the problem" premise because it flatters the worldview of every reductive, condescending Hillary voter I know. As though no other group of people could be corrupted and made violent by alienation or toxic ideology.
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Feb 23, 2018 06:22
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LinYutang posted:a stance only held by editors of the new york times and the proles who whine about it for some reason you literally are covering for the iraq war now, like you're its parent it's ok, it's an adult now, let it grow by itself!
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Feb 23, 2018 07:47
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Incel chudhood is the symptomatic expression of a society which is too at-odds with itself to develop a constructive definition of masculinity, and rather neglects scores of people to alienation in the name of "freedom." The problem isn't "us" and it's not "we," the issue is a particular political orientation which reflexively reinforces toxic masculinity over and over again. I'm not going to give the author credit for wanting to start a "conversation," because he's too much of a loving coward to name the enemy or the solution. So if society were fixed would there not be incels or would incels just not be chuds?
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Feb 23, 2018 08:10
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Wraith of J.O.I. posted:matty g is, not quite good, but he’s def not bad now the only difference was a 40 year period where they used slightly more coded language before a return to form the past 2 years.
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Feb 23, 2018 08:21
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Jeb! Repetition posted:So if society were fixed would there not be incels or would incels just not be chuds? The whole concept of being involuntarily celibate would be wiped out because it'd be a meaningless distinction. Celibacy just wouldn't be an issue.
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Feb 23, 2018 10:07
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The whole concept of being involuntarily celibate would be wiped out because it'd be a meaningless distinction. Celibacy just wouldn't be an issue. Why not
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Feb 23, 2018 10:13
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The whole concept of being involuntarily celibate would be wiped out because it'd be a meaningless distinction. Celibacy just wouldn't be an issue. sexbots will be a thing sooner than america making any adjustments
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Feb 23, 2018 10:28
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Why not Because a queer society would be accepting of all peer oriented sexualities, even non-sexualities. Jose posted:sexbots will be a thing sooner than america making any adjustments Sexbots also won't be a solution to the social issue of American sexuality, because sexbots aren't people. A sexbot could never substitute meaningful social connections with a friend or lover, except in the most delusional minds.
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Feb 23, 2018 10:52
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ah yes when we have full communism we will also wipe out the biological drive for sex, of course
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Feb 23, 2018 13:34
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BBJoey posted:ah yes when we have full communism we will also wipe out the biological drive for sex, of course there is a massive amount of cultural baggage that we have around sex, and getting rid of that would probably drastically reduce the extent to which people obsess over it and build their identities around not having it
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Feb 23, 2018 13:49
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BBJoey posted:ah yes when we have full communism we will also wipe out the biological drive for sex, of course I think the point is that we wouldn't look at celibacy as such a curse anymore. "Incel" implies people who think they should be having sex, and can't seem to.
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Feb 23, 2018 13:52
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Toxic sexual culture is why our president has to pay a porn actress just to hang out with him and give the impression they had sex.
Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 14:00 on Feb 23, 2018 |
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Feb 23, 2018 13:58
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gradenko_2000 posted:I think the point is that we wouldn't look at celibacy as such a curse anymore. "Incel" implies people who think they should be having sex, and can't seem to. There's a bit more beyond that. At the end of the day, incels often aren't people who can't get laid, because there are very very few people who can't find an arm to stumble on at last call or stump up $40 for a back massage and then the extra $40 to make it a front massage. They're people who subconsciously recognize both that they're at a lovely place in their life and that social/financial mobility in a DINK world is increasingly accomplished solely through mating up or down, and subsequently as much as they call themselves "involuntary" refuse any relationship that isn't an up. But it's subconscious and they don't have any mental structure for NOT considering themselves a solid 8, so the incel personality manifests itself as a refusal to self-improve and a perspectiveless bewilderment that women who fit their own social-mobility standards aren't interested. It's also amplified by the increasing destruction of work/life balance and economic stratification of families and neighborhoods reducing cross-class mixing among working adults. Removing the socioeconomic push for state school and junior college boys to determine their futures on hooking a leftover university girl before graduation would do a lot to deflate that particular cesspool.
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Feb 23, 2018 14:28
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gradenko_2000 posted:I think the point is that we wouldn't look at celibacy as such a curse anymore. "Incel" implies people who think they should be having sex, and can't seem to. William Faulkner posted:Because it means less to women, Father said. He said it was men invented virginity not women. Father said it's like death: only a state in which the others are left and I said, But to believe it doesn't matter and he said, That's what's so sad about anything: not only virginity and I said, Why couldn't it have been me and not her who is unvirgin and he said, That's why that's sad too; nothing is even worth the changing of it...
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Feb 23, 2018 14:53
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:A sexbot could never substitute meaningful social connections with a friend or lover, except in the most delusional minds. Boy have I got an easy prediction for you about delusion incidence rates.
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Feb 23, 2018 18:02
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Toxic sexual culture is why our president has to pay a porn actress just to hang out with him and give the impression they had sex. dont kinkshame our president and how he gets off by eating mcdonalds and watching tv in bed
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Feb 23, 2018 18:44
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BBJoey posted:ah yes when we have full communism we will also wipe out the biological drive for sex, of course i don't think you quite understand the precepts of luxury gay space communism
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Feb 23, 2018 19:04
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A change in culture could definitely make incelhood less pathological but come on, not being able to have sex is always gonna be distressing to people, particularly men, even if they're able to healthily accept it eventuallyPener Kropoopkin posted:Sexbots also won't be a solution to the social issue of American sexuality, because sexbots aren't people. A sexbot could never substitute meaningful social connections with a friend or lover, except in the most delusional minds. Nice bigoted dogwhistle about the validity of artificial people
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Feb 23, 2018 19:11
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I really hope the next Democratic party schism is over orgone accumulation.
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Feb 23, 2018 19:25
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Jeb! Repetition posted:A change in culture could definitely make incelhood less pathological but come on, not being able to have sex is always gonna be distressing to people, particularly men, even if they're able to healthily accept it eventually Like I said, it's rarely about inability to have sex and usually about inability to be recognized by society as regularly having sex with a partner appropriate to their internalized (they're usually American, so often inaccurately perceived as "temporarily-embarrassed millionaire who may be too busy at work to hit the gym recently") class identity. Actual involuntary celibacy is a danchi kid who can't afford a short-stay hotel or karaoke booth. Incels are the fat kid in anime club with a stack of cartoon lesbian porn as tall as he is, whose two favorite conversational cues are "I can't get laid and I blame the roasties" and "ugh I skipped meeting today, it's right after English Lit lets out in the same building so it's full of the hambeasts who never shut up about fag shows". No offense to cartoon lesbian porn which has an impressively large proportion of gay women as authors and fans.
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Feb 23, 2018 19:57
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Mandoric posted:Like I said, it's rarely about inability to have sex and usually about inability to be recognized by society as regularly having sex with a partner appropriate to their internalized (they're usually American, so often inaccurately perceived as "temporarily-embarrassed millionaire who may be too busy at work to hit the gym recently") class identity. That's a good point.
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Feb 23, 2018 20:30
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Although realizing they're undesirable and have to sleep with women who're at least as undesirable if they don't want to pay (plus whether they admit it to themselves or not a lot of them want more than just sex, they want intimacy) would also be a distressing thing and difficult to admit. In fact that's probably why they become susceptible to any explanation for what's happening that avoids that painful conclusion. And while better cultural attitudes could make their psychology healthier w/r/t masculinity I don't think it would completely fix the problem
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Feb 23, 2018 23:15
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Jeb! Repetition posted:And while better cultural attitudes could make their psychology healthier w/r/t masculinity I don't think it would completely fix the problem You've got a knack for zeroing in on the least germane problem. The issue at hand is homicidal ideations that arise from people who are alienated by heteronormativity. The issue isn't "somebody in the world somewhere might not be able to get a girlfriend even if they really want one." Heteronormative culture places an immense pressure on people, especially men, to be sexually performative - and anyone who can't perform is considered queer. At the same time there's a cultural counter-current that tries its best to suppress teenage sexuality - so you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Either way you end up with a sick society that perverts sexuality into something extremely unhealthy. Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 23:23 on Feb 23, 2018 |
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Feb 23, 2018 23:20
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:You've got a knack for zeroing in on the least germane problem. The issue at hand is homicidal ideations that arise from people who are alienated by heteronormativity. The issue isn't "somebody in the world somewhere might not be able to get a girlfriend even if they really want one." I meant the problem of that situation causing people to be reactionary. And I wasn't talking about heteronormativity. Pener Kropoopkin posted:Heteronormative culture places an immense pressure on people, especially men, to be sexually performative - and anyone who can't perform is considered queer. At the same time there's a cultural counter-current that tries its best to suppress teenage sexuality - so you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Either way you end up with a sick society that perverts sexuality into something extremely unhealthy. That's all more or less true but the original issue is incel chudhood and I think "incels" would still be at the very least vulnerable to chudification even if all of that were fixed Jewel Repetition has issued a correction as of 23:33 on Feb 23, 2018 |
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Feb 23, 2018 23:21
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the problem is masculine culture turning sex into a rite of passage (specifically "earning" it, so sex workers don't count) if your status as a man wasn't judged based on the amount of sex you've had then guys not having sex for whatever reason would be far less psychologically damaging and alienating
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Feb 23, 2018 23:32
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the bitcoin of weed posted:the problem is masculine culture turning sex into a rite of passage (specifically "earning" it, so sex workers don't count) Well you can stop judging men for the amount of sex they've had in polite society but I don't know if you could ever completely erase that in teens. I mean when you have a thing that everyone wants but only some people can get there's always gonna be some sense that the people who get it are winners and the rest are losers
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Feb 23, 2018 23:39
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According to the law of averages you'd have to get the point at least once, holy poo poo.
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Feb 23, 2018 23:53
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Well you can stop judging men for the amount of sex they've had in polite society but I don't know if you could ever completely erase that in teens. I mean when you have a thing that everyone wants but only some people can get there's always gonna be some sense that the people who get it are winners and the rest are losers have you ever considered why apparently EVERYONE wants sex but there's this huge contingent of people who easily could but refuse to have it because they have purposefully impossible standards your posts are all full of the same assumptions that need to be undone
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Feb 23, 2018 23:56
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the bitcoin of weed posted:have you ever considered why apparently EVERYONE wants sex but there's this huge contingent of people who easily could but refuse to have it because they have purposefully impossible standards Yeah, Mandoric kind of opened my eyes and made me consider the fact that a lot of self-identified incels aren't actually incels. But if we're talking about teens then the number of actual incels is way higher for a variety of reasons.
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Feb 24, 2018 00:04
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