Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
VirtualStranger
Aug 20, 2012

:lol:

JerikTelorian posted:

People on the subreddit were suggesting that you set the hyperlane density to 0.75 to encourage more chokepoints.

The gap between the 1x setting and the 0.75x setting is way too large.

With 1x, systems are generally well connected with a moderate amount of choke-points, but 0.75x turns the map into an endless maze of long, snaking corridors.

The best way to get a larger amount of choke-points as it stands now is to use 1x hyperlane density, but on a 4-arm spiral galaxy

VirtualStranger fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Feb 23, 2018

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I feel like the hyperlane registrar upgrade would be very nice to put on outposts, perhaps they could have an extra building slot or something just for that? It'd be nice to be able to build roads through your empire until you get gates.

SSJ_naruto_2003
Oct 12, 2012



How am i supposed to do an early war? It's a pain in the rear end to play early if people are nearby because it seems like I can never beat anyone, only white peace

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

As I understand it you don't want to do a total war, you want to capture the stuff you want to capture and then settle for the status quo.

Staltran
Jan 3, 2013

Fallen Rib

hobbesmaster posted:

^^^ have steam check your install integrity and disable all mods? That looks like a generic “can’t load” object so your instal might be hosed


Agreeing about mastery of nature. It needs to give 3 tiles all the way up to size 20 or something. (Maybe even 22)

Kinda disappointed I only got 1 tile on my capital.

I was really surprised you only get the full 3 tiles if the planet is size 12. I think only 13,14,15 give you +2, too? Seems pretty weak, but on the other hand if tradition cost increases from systems and planets stacking multiplicatively is WAD I can sorta see leaving most systems empty and just dealing with the pirates as they spawn becoming the meta? That would make influence less valuable so you'd get more out of Mastery of Nature.

Hryme posted:

The raiders are just super annoying. They zip around with very fast fleets destroying everything in their wake. Their fleet power is very high compared to the empires. I was highest in fleet power in early midgame and still my combined fleet was 2000 fleet power under one of their raiding fleets. Tried to buid defensive starholds to keep them occupied, but they had two entryways into my empire, and I couldn't keep my fleet on both. And wierdly they seemed to go for the one my fleet were not at. Almost as they use their sensors. Or it might be random. The fully upgraded defensive base I had died in seconds without a fleet there. I am sure in late game it will be more manageable, but mid game it felt like a waste to build mining stations in a large radius around the raiders, because they just seemed to regularly move around in differents paths destroying everything. I felt I have spent the last 3 hours just rebuilding mining stations. All in all I think I will turn them off in next game. Hope that is possible.

Isn't the tribute pretty affordable? I think Wiz paid them off with 500 food in one of the pre-release streams.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:

How am i supposed to do an early war? It's a pain in the rear end to play early if people are nearby because it seems like I can never beat anyone, only white peace

early wars don't seem like a very good idea anymore if you have any room to expand unless you are a purifier, devourer, or other galactic threat, or facing one, since that gives you a total war CB and no influence needs to be used on claiming their territory.

SSJ_naruto_2003
Oct 12, 2012



OwlFancier posted:

As I understand it you don't want to do a total war, you want to capture the stuff you want to capture and then settle for the status quo.

Yeah, but it's like they will nearly always equal my navy size or at least start making GBS threads out ships way faster than I can. Do AI get economic bonuses (i hope not)

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

The way regenerative hull plating works I feel like you could make some fairly hench builds out of just buffing your hull and armour points and sticking that on, especially as it regenerates armour twice as fast as hull.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:

Yeah, but it's like they will nearly always equal my navy size or at least start making GBS threads out ships way faster than I can. Do AI get economic bonuses (i hope not)

The AI was always very keen to build up its navy if it borders a player because it assumes you're going to be a conquering dickhead. It will run over its naval cap gladly and tank its economy in the process to keep you at bay. But bear in mind that the way engagement works now if you take supremacy and use retreat doctrines and light ships you should be able to put disporportionate dents into a larger force than yours which I believe will run up their war exhaustion faster than yours?

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Staltran posted:

I was really surprised you only get the full 3 tiles if the planet is size 12. I think only 13,14,15 give you +2, too? Seems pretty weak, but on the other hand if tradition cost increases from systems and planets stacking multiplicatively is WAD I can sorta see leaving most systems empty and just dealing with the pirates as they spawn becoming the meta? That would make influence less valuable so you'd get more out of Mastery of Nature.


Isn't the tribute pretty affordable? I think Wiz paid them off with 500 food in one of the pre-release streams.

I haven't seen it yet but I saw people complaining that they were getting their stuff blown up by the raiders when the raiders were on their way to another empire through their space.

If they're going to go through your space to a rival there should be an option to stay out of their way, possibly with a low cost tribute.

SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:

Yeah, but it's like they will nearly always equal my navy size or at least start making GBS threads out ships way faster than I can. Do AI get economic bonuses (i hope not)

If it hasn't changed they get bonuses on every level but easy, but its not that big.
https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/Settings#Difficulty

Soup du Jour
Sep 8, 2011

I always knew I'd die with a headache.

So I know you need Domination to be able to demand vassalization, but do you need it to be able to spin off planets you conquer as vassals? I want to kneecap these Purifiers next to me but don’t want to give up my “only Gaia Worlds and Habitats for me, thanks” gimmick.

Aethernet
Jan 28, 2009

This is the Captain...

Our glorious political masters have, in their wisdom, decided to form an alliance with a rag-tag bunch of freedom fighters right when the Federation has us at a tactical disadvantage. Unsurprisingly, this has resulted in the Feds firing on our vessels...

Damn you Huxley!

Grimey Drawer

OwlFancier posted:

The way regenerative hull plating works I feel like you could make some fairly hench builds out of just buffing your hull and armour points and sticking that on, especially as it regenerates armour twice as fast as hull.

Regen on fortresses made them practically invincible pre 2.0. Be interesting to see how it works in the new world.

Skippy McPants
Mar 19, 2009

Cnidaria posted:

The absolute most important reason to claim systems is to make your borders look pretty. All other reasons are secondary.

That's the thing, though. I want to fill in the empty space because it looks ugly on the map, but it's pretty clear that the optimal path is to not spend 100 minerals and a bunch of influence just to unlock the ability to build a single +2 research station.

Maybe pirates are threatening enough now that I'll be forced to fill in the gaps, but right now I dunno, It feels out of whack.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Staltran posted:

I was really surprised you only get the full 3 tiles if the planet is size 12. I think only 13,14,15 give you +2, too? Seems pretty weak, but on the other hand if tradition cost increases from systems and planets stacking multiplicatively is WAD I can sorta see leaving most systems empty and just dealing with the pirates as they spawn becoming the meta? That would make influence less valuable so you'd get more out of Mastery of Nature.

the pirates seem to ramp up roughly 300-400 fleet power per time they spawn for you, so they'll rapidly outpace you if you leave a lot of fully-surrounded enclaves within your empire because those spawn pirates pretty fast

i'm still building outposts in 2290 and i'm probably the most advanced power, tech-wise, so maximum expansion is still quite viable. my unity cost hurts though.

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

Staltran posted:

Isn't the tribute pretty affordable? I think Wiz paid them off with 500 food in one of the pre-release streams.

The thing is, if an AI empire pays them off to raid you they don't take tribute - and if an AI empire doesn't like you they will always, without fail, hire them to raid you before you can do the same to them because the AI knows when the Marauders are ready to raid and you don't.

Raids where they're willing to take tribute are notably rarer in my experience than raids where they aren't.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

Skippy McPants posted:

That's the thing, though. I want to fill in the empty space because it looks ugly on the map, but it's pretty clear that the optimal path is to not spend 100 minerals and a bunch of influence just to unlock the ability to build a single +2 research station.

Maybe pirates are threatening enough now that I'll be forced to fill in the gaps, but right now I dunno, It feels out of whack.

You shouldn't, as a rule, have many systems with only a +2 research in them, the lowest I have is at least 2 size 2 deposits.

Magil Zeal
Nov 24, 2008

OwlFancier posted:

You shouldn't, as a rule, have many systems with only a +2 research in them, the lowest I have is at least 2 size 2 deposits.

I've seen a handful of systems that just have the star as the only thing with any resources on them. They're not extremely common but they happen, a +3 or +2 energy star happens.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

I really hope the map scripts are given another look, or modders open up more advanced behavior because anything lower than 1.0 for lane density ends up looking bad. Instead of clumps and clusters the map looks like an intestinal tract of long snaking chains of lanes. I want more choke points, but for those points to between more dense interconnected clusters.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

I really don't understand why outposts should impact unity or research. I can see starbases, sure, but the interstellar equivalent of a flag shouldn't have a negative impact on research or how unified everyone feels. Especially since the outpost is actually increasing coherence when it's between two other systems.

Plus my borders.
More outposts = more resources + greater map control = better empire = more outposts. Runaway positive feedback loops like this tend to negatively impact anything that's not primarily a skirmish based rts/tbs. In Stellaris the implemented negative feedback is that the things that get you more stuff (Planets and systems mean resources) negatively impact the things that make your stuff good (Unity and research buffs).

And yeah I know you meant in-game. That's because having more systems make your existing systems feel less special and they get antsy.

It would be neat if the unity cost was affected by connectedness though, so one little outpost in the middle of nowhere increases unity costs more than a completely surrounded one. Like, each system counts as 1 + (% of border that touches another empire or the cold blackness of space). So filling in an empty spot on your empire is effectively "free" because your +1 from the new surrounded system is cancelled out by the reduced exposure on the adjacent ones.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

Yeah I agree that it's a bit of a choice between a web and noodles at this point, clusters of interconnected stars linked by pathways would be a bit more interesting.

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Baronjutter posted:

I really hope the map scripts are given another look, or modders open up more advanced behavior because anything lower than 1.0 for lane density ends up looking bad. Instead of clumps and clusters the map looks like an intestinal tract of long snaking chains of lanes. I want more choke points, but for those points to between more dense interconnected clusters.

We're going to look into iterating more on the algorithm in the future. It's not just a matter of tweaking numbers, we have to add logic to make secondary passes to create constellations and such.

Fintilgin
Sep 29, 2004

Fintilgin sweeps!
Influence cost to claim could also vary by system quality somehow? System with four planets costs 125, system with 2 minerals and a lint ball costs 25.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Wiz, what are the odds of getting a slider for war exhaustion or something.

Like it'd be cool if I could play game with war exhaustion multiplied by 0.1 if I wanted to.

Kaza42
Oct 3, 2013

Blood and Souls and all that

hobbesmaster posted:

Wiz, what are the odds of getting a slider for war exhaustion or something.

Like it'd be cool if I could play game with war exhaustion multiplied by 0.1 if I wanted to.

War exhaustion is ridiculous right now. I was playing as a dominant power rolling over a mid-sized empire to vassalize it. I never lost a single ship, and the closest fight was something like 3:1 in my favor. And yet I still got forced into a white peace due to war exhaustion before I could complete the wargoal. I'm playing a machine empire, I don't *want* to conquer their land and why are my robots getting tired of war anyway?

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Kaza42 posted:

War exhaustion is ridiculous right now. I was playing as a dominant power rolling over a mid-sized empire to vassalize it. I never lost a single ship, and the closest fight was something like 3:1 in my favor. And yet I still got forced into a white peace due to war exhaustion before I could complete the wargoal. I'm playing a machine empire, I don't *want* to conquer their land and why are my robots getting tired of war anyway?

Realism is not a meaningful argument. Without war exhaustion and forced status quo peaces, every single war would be to the death.

That said, it might be ticking up too fast right now.

Guilliman
Apr 5, 2017

Animal went forth into the future and made worlds in his own image. And it was wild.
For those interested,

Guilli's planet modifiers mod has been updated to 2.0
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=865040033


patchnotes here: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/changelog/865040033

panascope
Mar 26, 2005

In my first 2.0 game I also got my first Horizon Signal event chain and I just turned my species into Space Donkeys who are also cyborgs from The Flesh Is Weak. Game of the year 2018.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

Guilliman posted:

For those interested,

Guilli's planet modifiers mod has been updated to 2.0
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=865040033

drat now I wish I hadn't already started my game...

gently caress I might have to restart it.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Kaza42 posted:

War exhaustion is ridiculous right now. I was playing as a dominant power rolling over a mid-sized empire to vassalize it. I never lost a single ship, and the closest fight was something like 3:1 in my favor. And yet I still got forced into a white peace due to war exhaustion before I could complete the wargoal. I'm playing a machine empire, I don't *want* to conquer their land and why are my robots getting tired of war anyway?

Seriously gain could be 10% of what it is and it'd be a solid mechanic.

I think its a fine mechanic but the gain needs to be dramatically reduced. Or there needs to be more modifiers on it.

And exterminators/purifiers/devouring hives should not be able to force a status quo that results in your colonies being purged. Give a penalty or something but against these foes you should be able to fight to the last if you really want. Better to die in battle than be eaten by some giant plant.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Wiz posted:

We're going to look into iterating more on the algorithm in the future. It's not just a matter of tweaking numbers, we have to add logic to make secondary passes to create constellations and such.

Yeah I assume now the map just plops stars and then gives each star a random number of adjacent connections weighted by the map script settings. Things like clumps and more interesting "geography" would of course require defining those clumps as things and creating all new logic for how lanes are placed and checks to make sure each clump is connected to the next. I had a couple friends who were really into map scripts for Civ4 and boy oh boy could those get complicated.

I'm just glad to hear it's on the radar or wish list at the office.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Wiz posted:

Realism is not a meaningful argument. Without war exhaustion and forced status quo peaces, every single war would be to the death.

That said, it might be ticking up too fast right now.

Some differences in terminology depending on species might help. 'War Sustainability' for materialists or 'Computational Stress' for robots or 'War Frustration' for militarists might help quell some of these complaints.

Kaza42
Oct 3, 2013

Blood and Souls and all that

Wiz posted:

Realism is not a meaningful argument. Without war exhaustion and forced status quo peaces, every single war would be to the death.

That said, it might be ticking up too fast right now.

I agree with you that realism is not a good argument, however I don't think the war exhaustion system works well with subjugation wars. I think it would feel better to have a forced white peace due to war exhaustion instead split off any of their land you've taken into a new vassal state. After all, if you wanted to take the land directly you'd be waging a conquest war, but allowing subjugation wars to bypass war exhaustion and go to the death makes it an easy way to take control of huge enemies.

SSJ_naruto_2003
Oct 12, 2012



OwlFancier posted:

The AI was always very keen to build up its navy if it borders a player because it assumes you're going to be a conquering dickhead. It will run over its naval cap gladly and tank its economy in the process to keep you at bay. But bear in mind that the way engagement works now if you take supremacy and use retreat doctrines and light ships you should be able to put disporportionate dents into a larger force than yours which I believe will run up their war exhaustion faster than yours?



If earlygame wars are so difficult it makes every game feel kind of samey.

Being able to have some smaller-scale wars, then expand and take on bigger empires is part of the fun imo. Just expanding to huge size then going to war is not so fun.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I mean I agree but I think the intent is less to make earlygame wars impossible but to limit the amount of actual claiming you can do. What you build up to is the ability to wipe out bigger chunks of the enemy in one go.

Anime Store Adventure
May 6, 2009


I didn’t watch dev streams and haven’t had a ton of time to play: Is building tall any more or less viable in 2.0? I managed some semi-tall builds by rushing habitats before, which was really more a roundabout way to be super wide without occupying a lot of map space.

Related, can someone recommend a very generalized start strategy for 2.0? My previous wide strategy was to forget research for the most part early and snap up 3-5 big planets around my local space as soon as I could realistically afford to grow them. This seemed to work pretty well if you didn’t have any angry neighbors that wanted to immediately jump you.

I started a game last night and only had one colony but about a dozen systems and my research was already crazy hard gimped and I felt like I had messed up pretty bad as I was quickly falling behind in tech and already very readily behind any neighbors in fleet power.

Orbs
Apr 1, 2009
~Liberation~


Hey, if any of you dudes want to try out this awesome game in multiplayer, there's a game starting March 1st.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3850158

Discord server- https://discord.gg/ZvWaBeN

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



So it turns out that Fanatical Purifiers and Post Apocalyptic is an amazing civic combo because you get 100% habitability on Tomb Worlds and Armageddon bombing turns enemy planets into Tomb Worlds. These useless Arctic Worlds will be the jewels of the empire when the Combat Terraforming Division is finished melting the icecaps with nuclear weapons.

DrBox
Jul 3, 2004

Sombody call the doctor?
Ok, don't delete your only fleet manager template to start fresh because it actually deletes your fleet. A pop-up "are you sure" window would be helpful there.

hobbesmaster posted:

There is one?

I retract my statement. In my defense after 5 hours of playing you kind of get numb to random popups. I am dumb.

DrBox fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Feb 23, 2018

Nuclearmonkee
Jun 10, 2009


Ionizing radiation is good for the soul

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

DrBox posted:

Ok, don't delete your only fleet manager template to start fresh because it actually deletes your fleet. A pop-up "are you sure" window would be helpful there.

There is one?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply