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Pollyanna posted:interviewers for whiteboarding sessions should have to solve the problems they present in them before they can give them I just grilled my coworker about different kinds of randomized turing machines, guess I should ask about those in the next interview. 
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Feb 26, 2018 08:16
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Pollyanna posted:ive got a couple technical whiteboarding/online sessions with two other larger companies scheduled, and im really interested in them - i dont want to commit to anything yet without seeing if i am a good fit for either or both of those two '05 account posting like a 15yo. Something is way hosed up! Xarn posted:I just grilled my coworker about different kinds of randomized turing machines, guess I should ask about those in the next interview. Humblebrag tee hee
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Feb 26, 2018 15:27
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Achmed Jones posted:Pollyanna take the job. go ahead and still interview with the other companies. if you get a better offer, bail on the job you took. it’s not ideal but it’s also not a big deal. qhat posted:I can advise that loving a company out of your labour to take a significantly better position elsewhere is a perfectly acceptable route to six figure lifestyle. yeah i think im psyching myself out here. its not a BAD place to work at, im just scared of what can go wrong
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Feb 26, 2018 16:00
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Pollyanna posted:yeah i think im psyching myself out here. its not a BAD place to work at, im just scared of what can go wrong post/username combo
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Feb 26, 2018 16:08
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Pollyanna posted:yeah i think im psyching myself out here. its not a BAD place to work at, im just scared of what can go wrong What exactly do you think can go wrong? Take the job, don't get attached, continue to apply elsewhere.
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Feb 26, 2018 16:31
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homercles posted:Humblebrag tee hee Maybe. The more important part is that if you expect all of your interviews to be passed by your current employees, you can never hire someone to fill-in missing talent, which would be dumb. My current job/team is a good example, because all of them have academical CS research as their background -- we formed a company separate from university because our last research project had very positive response from industry partner, to the point where they were willing to pay a very competitively paid team to take the project from being research prototype to production ready state. This means that if I grilled them with CS theory (say, the always popular questions about algorithms) I would have to go quite far beyond what is taught in common graduate courses to stump them, but grilling them with stuff about actually shipping a good product would lead to sadness real quick. However, if we start looking for another person it won't be another academic -- we have enough of those already -- but for a person that can actually develop software, and while we will hold him to a higher standard than some of our current members regarding developments, we also won't hold him to the same standards regarding CS research... 
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Feb 26, 2018 16:35
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qhat posted:What exactly do you think can go wrong? Take the job, don't get attached, continue to apply elsewhere. i take the startup job and i am clearly ill equipped to handle the problems i take the startup job then bail and join another company and the first company gets extremely mad and word goes around that im a flake i take the startup job and decide to stay and then i have to work 9+ hour days and i burn out i take the startup job and decide to stay and then they fire me for no good reason without trying to reason it out (the one im most worried about) i take the startup job and the company eats poo poo and fails and i gotta look for a new job thereby making my resume look awful and me like a flake
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Feb 26, 2018 16:35
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Pollyanna posted:i take the startup job and i am clearly ill equipped to handle the problems 1. seek therapy 2. sue them for defamation 3. set personal boundaries. if they're not respected, jump ship 4. collect unemployment 5. not in your control. two of my previous three employers went out of business but i still got another job if you need a job now and this is the only offer on the table, take it and keep looking for a better fit. you don't owe any company allegiance like some feudal lord. if it's not working out just bounce, but get paid in the mean time.
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Feb 26, 2018 17:01
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Pollyanna posted:i take the startup job and i am clearly ill equipped to handle the problems i don't think startup or not-startup has any real bearing on this. in a startup you do have to take more technical initiative i guess, which is a good thing and a bad thing (you own your successes, but you also own your fuckups) quote:i take the startup job then bail and join another company and the first company gets extremely mad and word goes around that im a flake this is not a thing that happens, ever. nobody gives a poo poo about you after you're gone. nobody has the time or potential liability to waste being spiteful. quote:i take the startup job and decide to stay and then i have to work 9+ hour days and i burn out yeah this is something you have to watch out for. 9 hours? pff, casual. quote:i take the startup job and decide to stay and then they fire me for no good reason without trying to reason it out (the one im most worried about) startups are understood to be a volatile employment proposition that can suddenly evaporate for reasons outside your control. but so, for that matter, is full time employment with an established business. this is a capitalist enterprise, you are a cost to be minimized and eliminated. you are only ever employed grudgingly. if your resume shows a pattern of brief employments then that could be an issue. if you have one, well, make sure you have a couple of sentences prepared to explain it. "$STARTUP ran out of runway" is a perfectly adequate get-out-of-jail-free card.
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Feb 26, 2018 17:10
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yeah, i think im overthinking this. it sounds like a larger company wont necessarily be a better fit for me outside the strict adherence to 8 hour days. and ill push back and be clear when i accept the offer. plus, it is an interesting product. alright, i think im gonna accept it, not least because i hate being unemployed. i think the next step now is to negotiate for a little higher pay
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Feb 26, 2018 17:27
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i sent a counter offer at 120k, watch me squander this opportunity lol
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Feb 26, 2018 18:43
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it's unusual for bosses to be eager to fire people they have just hired. typical situations include 1. you're hired a probation basis. this would typically be structured as a contract-to-hire so the boss bears no risk in letting you go 2. you make yourself a hazard to the company (e.g. start a fire, hit someone, steal equipment, use an ethnic slur) 2. the boss is just a jerk, which hopefully you would be able to tell in the interview
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Feb 26, 2018 19:06
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Gazpacho posted:it's unusual for bosses to be eager to fire people they have just hired. typical situations include doesnt explain my last place then  except for probably the third. this also doesnt make sense due to at will employment but i dont know much about that
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Feb 26, 2018 19:16
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dividertabs posted:I wouldn't even ask about the team values; what they supposedly value doesn't (in my experience) correlate well with how decisions are made. I would drop the two questions: so that's why you need to follow up with a question that asks them about when they've had to compromise on their values. if they can't think of a time when they've had to compromise or explain well why they never have to compromise, then thats super suspicious to me. i do like your question tho
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Feb 26, 2018 19:25
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Pollyanna posted:doesnt explain my last place then
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Feb 26, 2018 19:26
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Gazpacho posted:The second 2 is the at-will employment case ahhh gotcha
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Feb 26, 2018 19:27
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luv 2 apply to positions that I feel I am completely qualified for only to find out that the job listing was only there for some other guy with my skillset getting hired via cronyism
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Feb 26, 2018 19:39
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Anyone ever interview or get interviewed as a Data Journalism/Visualization specialist? D3.js, Tableau, R, etc
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Feb 27, 2018 00:14
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Analytic Engine posted:Anyone ever interview or get interviewed as a Data Journalism/Visualization specialist? D3.js, Tableau, R, etc No, but I wanna. Gimmie that job description please
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Feb 27, 2018 00:16
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so the place i tried to negotiate with came back with what boils down to "i get that you dont want to undervalue yourself and thats good but weve got a particular junior/mid-level/senior set of bands and youre midlevel (which you admitted) but asking for a senior band soooo yeah. also use glassdoor instead of hired cause hired averages by level+title" they have a point here, but im not sure if im supposed to push back as part of this or if ive lost
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Feb 27, 2018 00:42
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you asked for a big jump over their offer with the leverage of being unemployed with no other offers, what did you expect their reply to be? if you still want to play ball you could try to figure out if you can negotiate within the salary band they have for the role but you're probably out of luck. if the initial offer really is too low, set an honest salary floor for yourself that you would be ok with and ask for it. if it's really fine and you just wanted to squeeze more out, well you don't have a lot of squeezing power as someone out of work. also, how old are you?
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Feb 27, 2018 01:01
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Pollyanna posted:so the place i tried to negotiate with came back with what boils down to "i get that you dont want to undervalue yourself and thats good but weve got a particular junior/mid-level/senior set of bands and youre midlevel (which you admitted) but asking for a senior band soooo yeah. also use glassdoor instead of hired cause hired averages by level+title" you have practically no experience, you're unemployed, and if you are half as troublesome in the workplace as you have been in yospos, you're a bit of a pill. so, yeah, you weren't going to qualify for the highest pay bands in any office you did your due diligence -- you asked for more money after the initial offer. good for you. they said no. that happens sometimes. now you have a choice: was the original offer acceptable, or not? if not, tell them the number you really need to not walk away. (and then be prepared to walk away when they say "no" again, which they might!)
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Feb 27, 2018 01:06
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PokeJoe posted:you asked for a big jump over their offer with the leverage of being unemployed with no other offers, what did you expect their reply to be? if you still want to play ball you could try to figure out if you can negotiate within the salary band they have for the role but you're probably out of luck. if the initial offer really is too low, set an honest salary floor for yourself that you would be ok with and ask for it. if it's really fine and you just wanted to squeeze more out, well you don't have a lot of squeezing power as someone out of work. hey, im following my due diligence here as bsd said, it couldnt hurt to try. and i get that i dont have a lot of leverage. i understand where i am now quote:also, how old are you? 27, why? Notorious b.s.d. posted:you have practically no experience, you're unemployed, and if you are half as troublesome in the workplace as you have been in yospos, you're a bit of a pill. so, yeah, you weren't going to qualify for the highest pay bands in any office the original offer is acceptable in terms of living, but i dont want to undervalue myself. but if its as you say, i am not very valuable anyway.
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Feb 27, 2018 01:25
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Pollyanna posted:hey, im following my due diligence here as bsd said, it couldnt hurt to try. and i get that i dont have a lot of leverage. i understand where i am now i didn't say it was a bad idea to try, and i think its good that you asked for more money. but their reply was pretty predictable as well with the amount more you asked for. lots of companies would balk at someone asking for 30% more without any leverage Pollyanna posted:
i think acceptable in terms of living isn't properly valuing yourself if you are any good at your job. most software jobs pay a good living, doesn't mean you can't get more than that. give yourself a real, honest, realistic valuation for your time and effort Pollyanna posted:27, why? just curious
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Feb 27, 2018 02:06
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PokeJoe posted:i didn't say it was a bad idea to try, and i think its good that you asked for more money. but their reply was pretty predictable as well with the amount more you asked for. lots of companies would balk at someone asking for 30% more without any leverage to be honest i did kind of expect them to balk, but for them to name a number more around 100k~105k instead of just "no" quote:i think acceptable in terms of living isn't properly valuing yourself if you are any good at your job. most software jobs pay a good living, doesn't mean you can't get more than that. give yourself a real, honest, realistic valuation for your time and effort bolded the sticking point, as was mentioned i have relatively little experience so i am not confident i am what they need, but they seem to think i am. that said i do want my salary to be on an upward projection so making the same as i did at the last place is a little...ehalso as a woman in tech i am very sensitive to being compensated properly/not being undervalued quote:just curious i'd actually love some feedback on this because i feel very far behind others of my age/level of experience
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Feb 27, 2018 02:14
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im gearing up for interviews
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Feb 27, 2018 02:18
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also gently caress linkedin recruiters
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Feb 27, 2018 02:19
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computer show me electronics engineering jobs at non-malicious entities and a nude tayne
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Feb 27, 2018 02:20
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If you have you ask for anything more than 10% of the initial offer, you shouldn't even be negotiating. You should be walking out the door. Nobody is going to give you 30% more and you risk seriously souring the hiring manager's opinion of you.
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Feb 27, 2018 02:22
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qhat posted:If you have you ask for anything more than 10% of the initial offer, you shouldn't even be negotiating. You should be walking out the door. on the other hand, do i really deserve more than 90k?
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Feb 27, 2018 02:24
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Pollyanna posted:on the other hand, do i really deserve more than 90k? If you have little to no experience, the answer is no, not even in the bay area.
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Feb 27, 2018 02:25
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qhat posted:If you have little to no experience, the answer is no, not even in the bay area. i have 3.5 years, but the experience ive had so far is all over the place and i havent really been able to knuckle the gently caress down and get poo poo done. so i think you are right here.
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Feb 27, 2018 02:26
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Man, I've been really hankering to get out of Ohio and get to the West coast. Spent time on Vancouver last year and loved it, but it gets cold and rainy. I'd really love to live somewhere where it feels like summer (70+ F) all year round. San Fran sounds nice, but I hear there's a lot of poo. Somewhere around there, or silicon valley would be cool. I'm a lead Dev at my place and do a ton more than that due to our small company size. I had to log into my LinkedIn for the first time in 6 years and now that I remember the password I'm thinking about updating it.
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Feb 27, 2018 02:42
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Pollyanna posted:to be honest i did kind of expect them to balk, but for them to name a number more around 100k~105k instead of just "no" so you wanted 10-15k more than the offer so you asked for 30k more than the offer? i think you aimed too high, i would have asked for 105-110 or so or even just 105. save the higher requests for if you're forced to give the number first. if you got them to give it up you usually have a pretty good idea of their salary range for the role already. if it's wildly off base the job probably wasn't meant to be. quote:bolded the sticking point, as was mentioned i have relatively little experience so i am not confident i am what they need, but they seem to think i am. experience and being good at your job are not necessarily the same thing. it's possible to be "good" at being a jr. developer and be more valuable than a "bad" jr. developer even though you may have the same number of years of experience. if people like working with you and you get your work done on time and with decent quality, you are good at your job. if you don't, perhaps you can improve and ask for more money. quote:i'd actually love some feedback on this because i feel very far behind others of my age/level of experience there are plenty of people your age and experience doing worse than you too, don't derive your sense of satisfaction from your assumed peers. are you doing better than you were than in the past? great, keep it up. qhat posted:If you have little to no experience, the answer is no, not even in the bay area. dunno about deserve but im pretty sure you can get 90k in the bay as an intern even
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Feb 27, 2018 02:49
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PokeJoe posted:dunno about deserve but im pretty sure you can get 90k in the bay as an intern even Jesus Christ what am I doing over here. So, question about culture out there. Is it super competitive? I guess it's hard to gauge since I haven't done interviews out there but I have this perspective that west coast is more competitive as a job seeker than here in the Midwest. However, there are probably less tech jobs per capita here, so maybe it's not? How many hours are you actually working a week as a salaried Dev, because right now I float between 40-50. Is it the same or is it crazy high like 60+
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Feb 27, 2018 02:53
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PokeJoe posted:there are plenty of people your age and experience doing worse than you too, don't derive your sense of satisfaction from your assumed peers. are you doing better than you were than in the past? great, keep it up. emptyquoting this, great advice
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Feb 27, 2018 02:56
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KoRMaK posted:Jesus Christ what am I doing over here. I had the same thought re out west but I am not single with a dog so housing was looking north of $4k a month in the Bay Area. I couldn’t justify the CoL increase, unless my salary doubled.
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Feb 27, 2018 02:57
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KoRMaK posted:Jesus Christ what am I doing over here. don't forget that in the bay area the line for being considered low-income is over $100k now
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Feb 27, 2018 02:58
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PokeJoe posted:so you wanted 10-15k more than the offer so you asked for 30k more than the offer? i think you aimed too high, i would have asked for 105-110 or so or even just 105. save the higher requests for if you're forced to give the number first. if you got them to give it up you usually have a pretty good idea of their salary range for the role already. if it's wildly off base the job probably wasn't meant to be. i thought you were supposed to ask 10% more than what you wanted? maybe i hosed up the math. id be happy with 105. quote:experience and being good at your job are not necessarily the same thing. it's possible to be "good" at being a jr. developer and be more valuable than a "bad" jr. developer even though you may have the same number of years of experience. if people like working with you and you get your work done on time and with decent quality, you are good at your job. if you don't, perhaps you can improve and ask for more money. ive had good experiences with my coworkers and projects and getting poo poo done, i just worry about where i am in relation to others, which leads to quote:there are plenty of people your age and experience doing worse than you too, don't derive your sense of satisfaction from your assumed peers. are you doing better than you were than in the past? great, keep it up. you're right, and i want to focus on improving and getting better. i'll keep this in mind
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Feb 27, 2018 03:01
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all that said i still might not take that position cause im not sure its a good culture fit + theres other opportunities coming up that im interested in (but arent in the bag yet) is it dumb to decline an opportunity just because there might be better, more interesting ones down the line?
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Feb 27, 2018 03:02
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