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Outpost maintenance is going to have a huge impact on early game expansion. Energy is a bit too useless in the game at the moment, especially now it can't be dumped into traders for minerals, but in the early game it's still really tight and you're going to have to focus on energy acquisition much more now in order to expand.
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Mar 1, 2018 15:30
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My giant 200-system empire didn't seem to take much of a hit from the outpost maintenance change.
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Mar 1, 2018 15:32
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Sounds like it's time to restart after opting into the patch then... I kinda a liked my current map, too. The outpost maintenance sounds unnecessary and I don't know why they'd add it in but maybe it will have some other effect we've yet to realize.
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Mar 1, 2018 15:33
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Ugh that outpost change is bad. They are close to the star, why wouldn't they have solar processors or something installed? Gonna need to double my energy buildings for my robuts
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Mar 1, 2018 15:34
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Psychotic Weasel posted:Sounds like it's time to restart after opting into the patch then... I kinda a liked my current map, too. Buff to tall empires?
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Mar 1, 2018 15:34
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liveoctopus posted:This... is not actually a fix, but rather just obscuring the problem. Running the enemy fleet off and maintaining (or achieving) space superiority should count for something. It does. It means you have space superiority, allowing you to capture systems and planets without having to deal with enemy fleets.  Also: I'm fighting the Contingency right now, and I'm noticing that their ships bug out of fleets the way regular factions' ships do. What I'm not noticing is fleets that are forced to retreat fully reappearing anywhere. Meaning something like 75% of the Contingency ships are disappearing without actually being destroyed, which makes their fleets a lot less scary than I originally thought. (also they have no kinetic weapons at all so go hog-wild with shields)
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Mar 1, 2018 15:37
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Sloober posted:Ugh that outpost change is bad. They are close to the star, why wouldn't they have solar processors or something installed? Would be nice if there was a solar panel module like starbases had to eliminate maintenance. That's a real nice changelog though. Thank space Jesus the marauders aren't going to wreck all your poo poo any more. It's worth it just for that.
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Mar 1, 2018 15:38
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The unity buff is really noticeable. I went to having 160 months to the next level, with about 20% done, to one level done and 20% towards the following one, with a 40 months wait to the end. It not only became additive but also 1% rather than 2% per system. I am not sure if I was already this high but my mineral income is +650 now, and I could have sworn I was at +300 earlier. If anything, it solves my energy problem at least.
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Mar 1, 2018 15:40
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Gadzuko posted:Would be nice if there was a solar panel module like starbases had to eliminate maintenance. Yeah, it would be nice to see more options in the module section (or whatever the section where silos and inhibitors are located). Things like silos should be stackable, having some alternative modules, etc.
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Mar 1, 2018 15:41
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Outpost energy costs should scale. Up to ten outposts, they cost nothing. 11-20 is one energy per, 21+ is two energy per, with a mid to late tech that reduces it to .5 and 1 energy. Keeps the early game costs down, then ramps it up as you start unlocking more resources and techs to reduce costs.
Admiral Joeslop fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Mar 1, 2018 |
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Mar 1, 2018 15:58
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The change to Expansion was absolutely necessary, as not taking it felt a bit like gimping yourself. Not persuaded that starbase maintenance was a problem. Putting costs on a fun thing - which they are - is dumb, when they're already balanced by the cap. Be interesting to see if liberation wars are more viable now.
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Mar 1, 2018 15:59
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Gort posted:New opt-in beta patch: Jesus guys, it's been a week. You're allowed to take a break! 
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Mar 1, 2018 16:00
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Gadzuko posted:Would be nice if there was a solar panel module like starbases had to eliminate maintenance. Yeah. One of my beefs with modules is that frontline starbases are the only ones you really have decisions to make about, backline, what, naval or offworld trading co? not much there. And not being able to put trading modules in uninhabited systems exacerbates it, and having more reason for backlines than just "MOAR ANCHORAGES" would be encouraging
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Mar 1, 2018 16:01
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canepazzo posted:* Increased energy upkeep of all Starbase sizes by +1. Outposts now cost 1 energy maintenance Whaaat, I didn’t see anybody complain about this so I’m interested in the reasoning behind it.
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Mar 1, 2018 16:03
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Fellblade posted:Whaaat, I didn’t see anybody complain about this so I’m interested in the reasoning behind it. I think it's just to balance lowering the Tradition penalty. It's not like it's a big cost, given that every system that doesn't have a science star is guaranteed to produce at least 2 energy.
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Mar 1, 2018 16:09
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liveoctopus posted:This... is not actually a fix, but rather just obscuring the problem. Running the enemy fleet off and maintaining (or achieving) space superiority should count for something. It's called a Pyrrhic victory. War exhaustion is all about your society's tolerance for the war, or I guess as a hive mind your collective self's, not your technical advantage in it.
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Mar 1, 2018 16:17
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Yes. You might win a war through massive expenditure of personnel and material, but that doesn't mean your people will thank you for it.
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Mar 1, 2018 16:35
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I feel like people are generally happier about victories than they are defeats. But fair enough! I'm happy with the war changes overall, that's just always stuck out as strange to me.
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Mar 1, 2018 16:37
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I mean, probably not if their loved ones died for it. Or for hive minds, they're pretty clearly not a literal one singular cohesive mind in many bodies so you're going to have the autonomous drones going "now I'm a simple infrastructure drone from SUB-REGION X8-24, but that's sure is a whole mess of resources we could use for our hyperlane bypass project." edit: please give me a hive mind civic for banjo music playing on constant loop in my drone's heads. I wish warrior culture did something for war exhaustion though. TGLT fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Mar 1, 2018 |
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Mar 1, 2018 16:41
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I really like the change to militarist ethos. Having reduced war exhaustion makes much more sense, thematically, and is less boring / more useful than "+ army damage"
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Mar 1, 2018 16:41
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TGLT posted:I mean, probably not if their loved ones died for it. Or for hive minds, they're pretty clearly not a literal one singular cohesive mind in many bodies so you're going to have the autonomous drones going "boy that's a lot of resources we could use for our hyperlane bypass project." For hive minds you're probably just getting really tired. Like war exhaustion is literal exhaustion.
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Mar 1, 2018 16:42
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If there was going to be an energy cost for each outpost, it should have been instead of the unity or science penalty, not in addition to both One of the things I despised about Civ V is how they would hit you with a list of penalties each time you expanded. Sad to see Stellaris heading in the same direction. I understand it's supposed to be a "cost" rather than a penalty, and if it was just energy I think it'd feel that way, but the research hit really should've been removed.
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Mar 1, 2018 16:48
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hobbesmaster posted:For hive minds you're probably just getting really tired. Like war exhaustion is literal exhaustion. Eh, it can be both. The influence and unity civics for hive minds talks about keeping your drones in line and stopping them from diverging too much, so they're not all totally the same entity. Kinda like different thought processes.
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Mar 1, 2018 16:48
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hobbesmaster posted:For hive minds you're probably just getting really tired. Like war exhaustion is literal exhaustion. "Man fuuuuuck, look at how many ships I just lost there, now I have to rebuild all of those. Maaaaaaaaaan"
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Mar 1, 2018 16:50
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hobbesmaster posted:For hive minds you're probably just getting really tired. Like war exhaustion is literal exhaustion. And having someone blow up a colony is like a concussive brain injury!
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Mar 1, 2018 16:51
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Magil Zeal posted:If there was going to be an energy cost for each outpost, it should have been instead of the unity or science penalty, not in addition to both Disagree. Civ 6, at least the version around release, removed (most?) research penalties from empire size and it was just terrible.
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Mar 1, 2018 16:53
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Also think that honourable warriors should get war exhaustion from other sources. Really really ideally, your classic spartan/Klingon types should get WE for defeats instead of absolute losses, and maybe even LOSE it for a famous enough victory (even if it’s a massive strategic blunder). By changing up what gives war exhaustion for different civics you could have some really interesting distinctive playstyles.
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Mar 1, 2018 16:53
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Fellblade posted:Whaaat, I didn’t see anybody complain about this so I’m interested in the reasoning behind it. it's too easy to blob up and then buy all of the enclave bonuses forever in my experience. starbase trading modules are way more powerful than solar panels ever were, so if you avoid using starbases on border defense, you can really rack up energy Spanish Matlock posted:Does anyone else feel like gateways are prohibitively expensive? You could easily cut the prices in half and be on target. Why would I spend 10,000 energy and 5000 minerals to reactivate or 10000 minerals to build a structure that just cuts down on travel time when wormholes exist? gates do kinda suck with their slider set to 1x, too expensive for what you can expect to get out of them. 2x or 2.5x gates makes the entire galaxy have gates - most empires will have at least one - but doesn't put them literally everywhere, so it creates a really mass effect-esque feeling of most areas being linked together, but with backwater areas that have to be slowboated to as well. Jazerus fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Mar 1, 2018 |
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Mar 1, 2018 16:54
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Randarkman posted:Disagree. Civ 6, at least the version around release, removed (most?) research penalties from empire size and it was just terrible. That's the best part of Civ VI. An empire-building game that encourages you to actually build an empire, a novel concept!
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Mar 1, 2018 16:55
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Magil Zeal posted:That's the best part of Civ VI. An empire-building game that encourages you to actually build an empire, a novel concept! Civ 6 is trash.
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Mar 1, 2018 16:56
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Magil Zeal posted:That's the best part of Civ VI. An empire-building game that encourages you to actually build an empire, a novel concept! ICS has proved effective throughout history!
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Mar 1, 2018 16:57
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hobbesmaster posted:ICS has proved effective throughout history! The Roman Empire stood for hundreds of years before it collapsed  Not that this is a Civ thread, but in general mechanical concepts trump realism anyway.And there's a measure of difference between ICS and, you know, just playing a 4X game (number
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Mar 1, 2018 16:59
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Shadowlyger posted:"Man fuuuuuck, look at how many ships I just lost there, now I have to rebuild all of those. Maaaaaaaaaan" It's Us @HiveTime2244329183 posted:After half our fleet was decimated, we are officially ready for the weekend.
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Mar 1, 2018 17:00
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not feeling limited to 4 cities all game is a part of the very short list of things civ 6 did better than 5
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Mar 1, 2018 17:06
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liveoctopus posted:I feel like people are generally happier about victories than they are defeats. But fair enough! I'm happy with the war changes overall, that's just always stuck out as strange to me. The French and the British weren't terribly thrilled about WW1, even after they won. I mean, they would have been even less happy to have lost, but three years in everyone involved was very ready for the war to be over, win or lose.
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Mar 1, 2018 17:07
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Aw geez, they blew up Autonomous Command Drone F-78! Now I have to manually command the entire flank, ugggghhh
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Mar 1, 2018 17:08
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TGLT posted:Eh, it can be both. The influence and unity civics for hive minds talks about keeping your drones in line and stopping them from diverging too much, so they're not all totally the same entity. Kinda like different thought processes. Reminds me of the Imperial Radch trilogy, where one of the central conflicts is different instantiations of the Supreme Leader deciding that the other group of instantiations has been compromised by hostile powers. 
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Mar 1, 2018 17:15
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There's also the point that War Exhaustion also represents things like "Oh man, our logistics lines are getting really stressed and unstable under the pressures of this hellwar and the fact that the Omicron system keeps changing hands is playing merry hell with the civilian economy and every day that passes we're losing a hundred spacetrucks carrying spacefood and spaceoil to the spaceships and space armies in enemy territory to pure attrition." That kind of thing can apply to hive minds and machine intelligences even if the gestalt consciousnesses still want to fight a war - their logistical lines may be getting so screwed up that they need to pause the war so that they can unfuck everything.
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Mar 1, 2018 17:15
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Reminds me of the Imperial Radch trilogy, where one of the central conflicts is different instantiations of the Supreme Leader deciding that the other group of instantiations has been compromised by hostile powers. The Radch would be a rad (lol) civ to model in stellaris, but there's not really a way to get an immortal hive-mind leader like Anaander in an otherwise regular human society. You could probably fake it but where's the fun in that
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Mar 1, 2018 17:22
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https://twitter.com/StellarisGame/status/969108798907539456
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Mar 1, 2018 17:25
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