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MF_James
May 8, 2008
I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE

stevewm posted:

I'm guessing the decision to purchase said system was made by someone who didn't actually have to support and/or use it, and they didn't bother to get any input from anyone else?

All above my pay grade friend.

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wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

MF_James posted:

Looking for someone somewhat versed with Avaya IP Office (I think Wolrah frequests this thread, maybe others as well). We just had it implemented (please laugh at our company for buying this piece of poo poo), it's been a shitshow so far and our call center stats are fukt. Really what I'm needing some info on is if there's a way to create a custom dashboard, there's the IPO System Status (or System State) and it's a dashboard that shows active calls, queued calls, status etc etc. Frankly it loving sucks and we'd like to be able to hook into the DB and pull that data and make our own pretty pictures, is there a way to do this?
Sorry man, we avoid proprietary systems so I don't have any real insight in to specifics of the Avaya platform. Assuming it uses SIP/RTP I can talk your ear off on that side of things, as well as basically any other general VoIP topics, but as far as internals if it's not based on Asterisk or FreeSWITCH it may as well be a magic black box to me.

If there's any public documentation you can point me to I'll take a look around and see if I can give you any ideas, but given my experiences with other vendors I'm assuming they hide all the actual information behind logins.

GnarlyCharlie4u
Sep 23, 2007

I have an unhealthy obsession with motorcycles.

Proof

MF_James posted:

Looking for someone somewhat versed with Avaya IP Office (I think Wolrah frequests this thread, maybe others as well). We just had it implemented (please laugh at our company for buying this piece of poo poo), it's been a shitshow so far and our call center stats are fukt. Really what I'm needing some info on is if there's a way to create a custom dashboard, there's the IPO System Status (or System State) and it's a dashboard that shows active calls, queued calls, status etc etc. Frankly it loving sucks and we'd like to be able to hook into the DB and pull that data and make our own pretty pictures, is there a way to do this?

There's lots of reasons I hate Avaya, but not being able to do reporting on non call center solution isn't one of them. Sorry friend :(

First do this:
https://www.asterisk.org/
https://www.freepbx.org/

Then do this:
https://www.getisymphony.com/

And then you'll be completely responsible for everything and the call center manager will be coming for your head every time some lazy employee just leaves their phone off the hook for an hour saying "oh I can't get calls"

MF_James
May 8, 2008
I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE

Thanks Ants posted:

Oh my loving god it's not a call centre solution.

Edit: If you want to interface with it then look at https://www.devconnectprogram.com/site/global/products_resources/ip_office/releases/10_1/index.gsp. Click 'Downloads' then 'DevLink 3'.

I have an SSO login somewhere so I can pull all of the documentation for you when I'm next in the office. Or maybe the registration lets you grab it without going through a load of bullshit, I have no idea.

If you want something off the shelf then look at http://oaksi.com/#/evolve

Thanks for the info, our callcenter is roughly 20-25 concurrent users, 40-50 people total, so nothing huge going on here, is this: http://oaksi.com/#/evolve geared towards larger stuff or does it scale down well (cost/whatever)? If you know.

GnarlyCharlie4u posted:

There's lots of reasons I hate Avaya, but not being able to do reporting on non call center solution isn't one of them. Sorry friend :(

First do this:
https://www.asterisk.org/
https://www.freepbx.org/

Then do this:
https://www.getisymphony.com/

And then you'll be completely responsible for everything and the call center manager will be coming for your head every time some lazy employee just leaves their phone off the hook for an hour saying "oh I can't get calls"

Thanks, I am very wary of getting into something this involved since I'm already absolutely slammed; I doubt I would have the resources to deal with figuring this out, deploying it and then supporting it.

MF_James fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Mar 5, 2018

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

#essereFerrari


Should be fine at that scale. For anybody your size I would have said to look and see if Amazon Connect fits the bill, but you have a system now.

MF_James
May 8, 2008
I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE

Thanks Ants posted:

Should be fine at that scale. For anybody your size I would have said to look and see if Amazon Connect fits the bill, but you have a system now.

I'm not a decision maker and the only really technical guy that is, did not want the Avaya system, but was overruled by non-technical people because the VAR promised the world; now the world is on fire and is actually full of holes.

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

#essereFerrari


Is it actually a box that things plug into or a virtual server? IP Office is bad enough but still deploying the boxes is lol-worthy.

MF_James
May 8, 2008
I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE

Thanks Ants posted:

Is it actually a box that things plug into or a virtual server? IP Office is bad enough but still deploying the boxes is lol-worthy.

We have a physical something or other and 2x IPO VMs, I have nothing to do with any of this, when the VAR came in they said that OurCompany should keep technical people away from configuring the call routing/flow because we overthink it and gently caress it up, so I was boxed out of everything. Now the world is on fire and it's slowly coming to a head that "Hmm maybe we shouldn't have listened to the company that was $$$ForEverything and instead brought in the guys at the top of our technical chain because they are smart and know how to push buttans good". My partner spun up some VMs for them, appliances and windows devices, plugged in whatever their proprietary box is (I think it handles analog phones and maybe something else?)

Bunni-kat
May 25, 2010

Service Desk B-b-bunny...
How can-ca-caaaaan I
help-p-p-p you?
Jesus Christ, MF. How have you not thrown up your arms and gone "you stonewalled us at every turn on this, get your drat VAR to fix it."

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

#essereFerrari


Yeah, that. Analogue phones, jesus.

MF_James
May 8, 2008
I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE

Thanks Ants posted:

Yeah, that. Analogue phones, jesus.

Analogue phones are backups for when our PRIs fail AND the SIP trunks in our DC fail. i.e. massive network outages and poo poo like that. We are not actually using analogue phones regularly (although due to some idiotic stuff with the configuration from the VAR we were taking a lot of calls from those phones on Sunday from what I hear)

Avenging_Mikon posted:

Jesus Christ, MF. How have you not thrown up your arms and gone "you stonewalled us at every turn on this, get your drat VAR to fix it."


Kicking the horse that pays you when it's down is not a good way to stay employed. Our bread and butter business is call center, I only make money because that is around so I'm not going to be a dick about it, but I will bring it up later.

GnarlyCharlie4u
Sep 23, 2007

I have an unhealthy obsession with motorcycles.

Proof
Verizon is getting off copper entirely and going to Lightspan devices or swapping everyone to an ONT to use fiber to connect sites that still have analog devices.
So the only real argument we had preventing us from sticking with POTS, "well the phones will work when the power is out" is no longer valid.

Any yet... we're about to blow a couple or three hundred thousand dollars on a new NEC PBX :shrug: I have no loving clue why.
We've already deployed a bunch of Asterisk PBX to use in the meantime while our building is being renovated and our utilities are cut off. I mean... talk about a proof of concept, we're literally running the entire org right now anyway, but we're going to switch back to analog and pay a quarter million dollars to do it. Management is terrible.

Vargatron
Apr 19, 2008

MRAZZLE DAZZLE


We had a VOIP implementation get rolled back because the Comptroller couldn't figure out how to set up an autoattendant for out of office and ran poo poo up the chain all the way to the C levels.

funmanguy
Apr 20, 2006

What time is it?
we operate only on carrier pigeons, our turn around time is in the low single digits

of weeks

Vargatron
Apr 19, 2008

MRAZZLE DAZZLE


I never quite understood why VOIP and telecom is as complicated as it is. Like I mean you'd start at "can make and receive calls" and go from there, right?

Judge Schnoopy
Nov 2, 2005

dont even TRY it, pal

Vargatron posted:

I never quite understood why VOIP and telecom is as complicated as it is. Like I mean you'd start at "can make and receive calls" and go from there, right?

I once ran into an issue with a new IVR regarding DTMF tones (the signal when you use a number input on a prompt). The IVR was only recognizing every other tone. I ran packet captures and proved the VOIP gateway was sending each tone through.

It turns out there are like three standards for DTMF signals and if your SIP provider, VOIP gateway, and IVR don't all agree on what to use it can lead to some signals being completely ignored.

VOIP sucks.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

Vargatron posted:

I never quite understood why VOIP and telecom is as complicated as it is. Like I mean you'd start at "can make and receive calls" and go from there, right?
Traditional telecom is as complicated as it is because it's a lot like Windows, they just kept building on top of the last thing.

A lot of less well known VoIP protocols are built on top of this legacy, H.323 and MGCP for example.


SIP-based VoIP is actually pretty simple. The problems come in when traditional telecom vendors like Avaya get involved and want to keep doing things as much like they're used to as they can get away with. Stick to standards-based systems and vendors and it's pretty easy to deal with 99% of the time.

Bigass Moth
Mar 6, 2004

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.
:boom:
he knows...
People freak out about network outages and not being able to use VoIP phones. If you've got geographically dispersed servers it should never be a problem. You don't need a hundred POTS analog phones laying around in case there is a catastrophic failure because everyone has cellphones. If cellphone service goes out when your VoIP network crashes, then you've got bigger problems anyway. There are IMO very few reasons to get a POTS line anymore, and most of them are "we have no other options/no internet connectivity because we're on the top of a mountain or in the middle of a jungle and they can't run it."

GreenNight
Feb 19, 2006
Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

We have pots lines in one of our plants because none of our god drat cell phones work there.

ChubbyThePhat
Dec 22, 2006

Who nico nico needs anyone else
I have been requested to get my VCP6-DCV. Should be fun.

LochNessMonster
Feb 3, 2005

I need about three fitty


funmanguy posted:

we operate only on carrier pigeons, our turn around time is in the low single digits

of weeks

Aha, did you go for the RFC1149 or RFC 2549 implementation?

Vargatron
Apr 19, 2008

MRAZZLE DAZZLE


LochNessMonster posted:

Aha, did you go for the RFC1149 or RFC 2549 implementation?

Lost it at "an example of packet loss".

nmfree
Aug 15, 2001

The Greater Goon: Breaking Hearts and Chains since 2006

Vargatron posted:

Lost it at "an example of packet loss".
:emptyquote:

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.
Few things give me more joy at work than deleting a PM's overzealous conference room hogging. No, you aren't going to reserve one of our high capacity conference rooms for 70% of the day for months at a time. This isn't your personal workspace. Your meetings rarely have more than 4 people. Use the dozens of other conference rooms with lower capacity just waiting for your dumb catch up meetings. I don't give a poo poo if this causes you more work. People treat this poo poo like the land rush.

All because she gave me pushback when I told her the conference room was going to need to be taken over for part of the day for a wireless site survey and some re-positioning of AP's. The little poo poo was trying to take over a 40 person conference room until July.

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

#essereFerrari


Sickening posted:

catch up meetings

Ugh

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.
We are also firing a Dev-ops idiot today that I despise. The smug, unlikable twat had his manager concerned that he wasn't using his time at work productively. He always seemed preoccupied with other things instead of his own projects. The CIO wanted an brief investigation done on his web habits, etc, which is fast and painless with our logging. Basically the kind of thing that would spark "Stop watching netflix at work and do your job." Welp, turns out that brave little ithacus is running his own mini-msp service to a few clients which he is servicing on our dime. Brazen as poo poo considering he didn't even attempt to use a vpn to hide the traffic.

Vargatron
Apr 19, 2008

MRAZZLE DAZZLE


Probably less "brazen" and more "dumb as gently caress".

Darchangel
Feb 12, 2009

Tell him about the blower!


Vargatron posted:

Probably less "brazen" and more "dumb as gently caress".

I heard a tale from a coworker about his time at a local school district. He was brought on board after the previous guy was found to have created an ISP/hosting service using the school's network connection and several of the servers. Yeah, they weren't big on oversight at the time.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer

Vargatron posted:

Probably less "brazen" and more "dumb as gently caress".

It's this.

Then again the amount of poo poo people get away with for a long time because they aren't being monitored properly is huge. The guy who was a helpdesk tech before I started with this company was running his own porn server off company server hardware.

Kashuno fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Mar 6, 2018

stevewm
May 10, 2005

wolrah posted:

Traditional telecom is as complicated as it is because it's a lot like Windows, they just kept building on top of the last thing.

A lot of less well known VoIP protocols are built on top of this legacy, H.323 and MGCP for example.


SIP-based VoIP is actually pretty simple. The problems come in when traditional telecom vendors like Avaya get involved and want to keep doing things as much like they're used to as they can get away with. Stick to standards-based systems and vendors and it's pretty easy to deal with 99% of the time.

Agreed. We have some IP Office boxen and recently got some Grandstream UCM boxes (they run Asterisk, with a customized Web GUI). Frankly the Grandstreams are much easier to configure and use, and work with any vendor's phones. They are also considerably cheaper. The IP Office systems remind me of older analog phone systems with both terminology and the way they are configured, any they only work with Avaya phones.

IP Office, never again.....

Sudden Loud Noise
Feb 18, 2007

wolrah posted:

Traditional telecom is as complicated as it is because it's a lot like Windows, they just kept building on top of the last thing.

I remember studying for my CISSP and the telecom security section basically started out with "So to understand telecom security today let's first go back to the 1950s..."

DropsySufferer
Nov 9, 2008

Impractical practicality
I think I'm finally getting the chance to move from pointless IT fieldwork to engineering or at least the first steps.

The Engineering Lead at my company told me I'd be configuring a non-Cisco switch which is obviously a test to see if I'm capable.

I've been looking up HP and Aruba and it seems like the same thing just different commands. This appears to be a very simple task. Anything tricky I'm missing?

I was nervous talking with him though and know I didn't impress. But he said would talk to the head of the department so my schedule could be changed. People don't just say things like that if they aren't going to do it.

I hope I get that email from him or the head of the department soon though. Nervous like being excited to go on a big date.

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

#essereFerrari


HP/Aruba can mean
- ProVision (Procurve OS)
- Comware (3com/H3C acquisition)
- ArubaOS

I've only worked with the ProCurve line. It's very similar to IOS, but the way you tag VLANs to ports is backwards compared to Cisco - you put ports in VLANs in one system, and you tag VLANs onto ports in another. I can't remember which is which, I just press tab until it makes sense again.

Have a look at https://hpepress.hpe.com/product/ArubaOS-Switch+Comware+and+Cisco+IOS+CLI+Reference+Guide-PDF-18113

MF_James
May 8, 2008
I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE

Most of the companies that produce managed switches modeled after Cisco IOS, so it's all very similar and there will just be a few nuances to it, as Thanks Ants pointed out. Had to work on a Brocade switch once and other than some different terminology (a trunk port was called something else, etc), it was the same stuff.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

stevewm posted:

Agreed. We have some IP Office boxen and recently got some Grandstream UCM boxes (they run Asterisk, with a customized Web GUI). Frankly the Grandstreams are much easier to configure and use, and work with any vendor's phones. They are also considerably cheaper. The IP Office systems remind me of older analog phone systems with both terminology and the way they are configured, any they only work with Avaya phones.

IP Office, never again.....

I have one of the Grandstream boxes in for testing right now and am really liking it. By "work with any vendor's phones" are you just referring to being able to support another phone if manually configured, or have you found a good way to actually template the configs for other vendors in the things? I haven't been able to figure out the second part, and amusingly the built in templates actually don't even support Grandstream's own GXP17xx series.

I like the Grandstream PBX so far but IMO their phones are worse than Yealink (and their config file format is absolutely insane, everyone responsible for that abortion should never be allowed to program anything ever again).

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Thanks Ants posted:

HP/Aruba can mean
- ProVision (Procurve OS)
- Comware (3com/H3C acquisition)
- ArubaOS

I've only worked with the ProCurve line. It's very similar to IOS, but the way you tag VLANs to ports is backwards compared to Cisco - you put ports in VLANs in one system, and you tag VLANs onto ports in another. I can't remember which is which, I just press tab until it makes sense again.

Have a look at https://hpepress.hpe.com/product/ArubaOS-Switch+Comware+and+Cisco+IOS+CLI+Reference+Guide-PDF-18113

The vlanning is so dumb on that hardware that I want to throw it all in the dumpster.

Sickening fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Mar 7, 2018

Inspector_666
Oct 7, 2003

benny with the good hair
ProCurve was pretty much all we used at my previous job and I never, ever got used to the VLAN tagging conventions.

stevewm
May 10, 2005

wolrah posted:

I have one of the Grandstream boxes in for testing right now and am really liking it. By "work with any vendor's phones" are you just referring to being able to support another phone if manually configured, or have you found a good way to actually template the configs for other vendors in the things? I haven't been able to figure out the second part, and amusingly the built in templates actually don't even support Grandstream's own GXP17xx series.

I like the Grandstream PBX so far but IMO their phones are worse than Yealink (and their config file format is absolutely insane, everyone responsible for that abortion should never be allowed to program anything ever again).

I meant work with other phones as far as SIP goes. I've not tried to do any configuration with another one. BTW, You can add support for the GXP17xx series easily.. Under ZeroConfig, go to the Model Updates tab, find the GXP17xx model you want and click the download button in the Options column.

I've not messed directly with any of the Grandstream config files, only used ZeroConfig. Have you messed with P codes yet? They let you customize every single setting via ZC without having to manually edit config files.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.
Nothing will ever be less friendly to VLAN-tag than Nortel.

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Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

#essereFerrari


Sickening posted:

The vlanning is so dumb on that hardware that I want to throw it all in the dumpster.

Trips me up quite a bit but I can't really say that doing VLANs is an everyday thing and you do get used to it eventually.

I'd rather that than having to type 'do' all the time in IOS, with the defaults of trying to resolve every mistyped command and logging synchronous not enabled :suicide:

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