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Narzack posted:What do you guys think are some of the most perfect action sequences in western film? I say western, because I’m trying to stay away from martial arts movies, as it’s kinda easy mode. I mean, how can you top the end of Drunken Master 2, or the teahouse shootout from Hardboiled? Jet Li vs the General at the end of Fist of Legend? Also, it feels to me that the western action scene is a carefully crafted beast, more of a showcase of the director and editor, whereas the martial arts scenes are usually showcases of the performers themselves. Which isn’t to say that one is better than the other, though, I think it can be argued that there is a purity and value in seeing just how good some of the performers are. Honestly? I think the train scenes at the start and end of The Lone Ranger are really good. Then again, I might be a bad judge.
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Mar 8, 2018 09:20
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I think I said it upthread, but I'll reiterate my opinion that the Raiders truck chase is still the single greatest action sequence ever filmed. It's seven minutes long, but it's a mini-movie in its own right: not a shot is wasted, it constantly escalates and continually tops itself, the peril Indy is in keeps rising - and bar one miniature and one matte shot, it was all done for real. The stunts, the camerawork, the sound effects, the editing, the music... it's pretty much perfect. Hell, I'm going to watch it again right now just because I can.
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Mar 8, 2018 13:20
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Wheat Loaf posted:Honestly? I think the train scenes at the start and end of The Lone Ranger are really good. Then again, I might be a bad judge. It is good, and the only point that the movie finds any semblance of footing. Hans Zimmer’s rendition of The William Tell Overture in that scene is really great too, deftly mixing together the classical piece with the disparate character themes present throughout the rest of the score. Weirdly that scene is almost impossible to find in good quality on YouTube.
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Mar 8, 2018 14:28
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Some of my favorites(obviously spoilers): Rama + bro vs. Mad Dog: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkmB-cSs72w This fight scene is one of the best for how it has a real ebb and flow to it. You can feel each side begin to take control, lose control, take it back, and then when the end finally comes it's a true relief because Mad Dog is one scary motherfucker. The Man From Nowhere: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CJ6gxJyJDI The final showdown, so definitely don't watch if you plan of seeing the movie. It's a scene where you really feel the weight of the story up to that point and you've been waiting and waiting for him to go off on these guys. Finally he does and it's glorious. Ip Man vs. 10 men: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upwyWKzozII Another one where the context makes it soooo much more satisfying to watch than if you just see it on it's own. That seems to be a running theme, when the action means something it's raised to another level. This is the scene where I fell in love with Donnie Yen. Kung Fu Hustle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDr1MD2a1aM There's a bunch of great fight scenes in this movie but I think the first one is the best because of the reveal of all the great characters. A real fist-pumping moment.
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Mar 8, 2018 15:20
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The Lone Ranger is awful and that scene is awful and it disproves physics because it's longer than the projected life of the universe itself.
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Mar 8, 2018 15:20
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The movie is awful with some super problematic creative choices made, but the finale is a well executed set piece. In no way does it make the rest of the movie worth sitting through, however
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Mar 8, 2018 15:30
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Payndz posted:I think I said it upthread, but I'll reiterate my opinion that the Raiders truck chase is still the single greatest action sequence ever filmed. It's seven minutes long, but it's a mini-movie in its own right: not a shot is wasted, it constantly escalates and continually tops itself, the peril Indy is in keeps rising - and bar one miniature and one matte shot, it was all done for real. The stunts, the camerawork, the sound effects, the editing, the music... it's pretty much perfect. I think I agree. I can't think of anything that tops it.
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Mar 8, 2018 15:30
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This came up in a totally unrelated thread: I wish John Cusack did more action scenes because he's, like, really good, and a more legit martial artist than any of the leading men who do martial arts scenes.
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Mar 8, 2018 15:40
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There's a horse chase in The Hidden Fortress that everyone should check out(can't find a clip unfortunately) because Spielberg cites it as one of the major inspirations for how he shoots action scenes. The truck chase in Raiders is a perfect example of him using Kurosawa's techniques to emphasize movement and speed. Anyway since I couldn't find that clip here's Mifune in one of the all-time great samurai duels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NNaj5YUxco
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Mar 8, 2018 15:40
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Basebf555 posted:Ip Man vs. 10 men: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upwyWKzozII These are both really good I love Kung Fu Hustle. My favorite Donnie Yen fight though will always be vs Sammo in SPL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4ruXnuLtkk
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Mar 8, 2018 17:46
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I rewatched The Bourne Identity for who knows which time, the other day and it is still just such a good movie. I don't know how long Matt Damon trained for it, but all the hand to hand combat scenes are just amazing. Of course, it helps that you can actually see what is going on.
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Mar 8, 2018 20:01
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Basebf555 posted:There's a horse chase in The Hidden Fortress that everyone should check out(can't find a clip unfortunately) because Spielberg cites it as one of the major inspirations for how he shoots action scenes. The truck chase in Raiders is a perfect example of him using Kurosawa's techniques to emphasize movement and speed. See also, the chase scene from Stagecoach, which is a mini version of the truck chase from Raiders. As far as my favorite action scenes that haven’t been mentioned, the entire third act of Commando is stupid as hell and I love it to pieces, because it absolutely does not give a gently caress. The siege at the outpost in Starship Troopers is a great body count scene, watching bugs pile up is satisfying but there’s also the dread that “oh poo poo they’re hosed.” The final battle in Robocop has one of the greatest deaths in action movie history, and is worth mentioning just for that. Between the truck chase and CyberDyne sequence, Terminator 2 has a couple all-timers.
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Mar 8, 2018 21:13
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Scott Adkins fighting that big Russian guy in the sporting goods store in Universal Soldier: Day of Reckoning then the final action sequence where he clears out the UniSol cult base and fights Lundgren and Van Damme.
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Mar 8, 2018 21:36
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It's very weird to me how some of the best action movies are now these straight-to-streaming low-budget things.
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Mar 8, 2018 21:46
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Halloween Jack posted:It's very weird to me how some of the best action movies are now these straight-to-streaming low-budget things. It's because that kind of old-school action movie isn't what studios are spending money on right now. It's all about super heroes and huge tentpole franchises. In the 80's I think someone like Adkins would've been given more of a mainstream shot at action stardom by now, but the appetite just isn't there for it, at least that's what the people making the decisions seem to think.
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Mar 8, 2018 21:48
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I'm not sure what qualifies someone to be a leading man in a big-budget action movie now. Like, you can act, and you're pretty, and you're willing to do crash courses in martial arts and bodybuilding for a few months before each filming, okay. Then again, I don't understand the latter half of Charles Bronson's career either.
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Mar 8, 2018 21:50
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Halloween Jack posted:I'm not sure what qualifies someone to be a leading man in a big-budget action movie now. Like, you can act, and you're pretty, and you're willing to do crash courses in martial arts and bodybuilding for a few months before each filming, okay. Bronson was a very well known actor, it's not like he came out of nowhere with Death Wish. But Death Wish became so popular that they just kept making them with him and he ended up as an elderly action star kinda by accident. Death Wish very obviously was not meant to kick off an over the top action franchise, but that's what happened.
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Mar 8, 2018 21:54
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Halloween Jack posted:It's very weird to me how some of the best action movies are now these straight-to-streaming low-budget things. I have Adkins' Savage Dog on my Netflix list. Can't remember if it was here I saw a recommendation for it (assuming I remember it being recommended at all). Only 90 minutes anyway so if it sucks, oh well.
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Mar 8, 2018 21:58
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That Kung Fu Hustle example posted upthread has the best use of the score to help the visuals immediately change the mood - there's actually 2 - when coolie grabs the lighter, and when him and the tailor meet back-to-back I forced all of my friends to watch Shaolin Soccer at a cabin haha I love Stephen Chow
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Mar 8, 2018 22:05
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Penpal posted:That Kung Fu Hustle example posted upthread has the best use of the score to help the visuals immediately change the mood - there's actually 2 - when coolie grabs the lighter, and when him and the tailor meet back-to-back Yea very few directors can seamlessly transition from Looney Tunes to serious action the way Chow does. Not the same thing, but the 2 on 1 fight from The Raid also has a fantastic score behind it that really adds a lot of weight to the fight and helps keep the audience on rhythm with it. I love how it starts to swell as Rama and Andy stem the tide of Mad Dog's intensity and begin to turn things around.
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Mar 8, 2018 22:10
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Basebf555 posted:Bronson was a very well known actor, it's not like he came out of nowhere with Death Wish. But Death Wish became so popular that they just kept making them with him and he ended up as an elderly action star kinda by accident. Death Wish very obviously was not meant to kick off an over the top action franchise, but that's what happened. Yeah, it's all that Cannon stuff after Death Wish where he feels like a man out of time. I'm not a guy who thinks action heroes should all look a certain way, but I just sort of expect people in dumb 80s pew-pew-kaboom movies to be young fit guys in tank tops. Bronson's later stuff is like if Peter Cushing spent the last decade of his career playing hulking slasher villains. But I think the whole "It's like if Sylvester Stallone was replaced by your dad" thing he had going on was part of his appeal.
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Mar 8, 2018 22:18
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Halloween Jack posted:Yeah, it's all that Cannon stuff after Death Wish where he feels like a man out of time. I'm not a guy who thinks action heroes should all look a certain way, but I just sort of expect people in dumb 80s pew-pew-kaboom movies to be young fit guys in tank tops. Bronson's later stuff is like if Peter Cushing spent the last decade of his career playing hulking slasher villains. But I think the whole "It's like if Sylvester Stallone was replaced by your dad" thing he had going on was part of his appeal. And remember that Bronson WAS a legit badass in his time, he made is name in Westerns. So he had built up good will from that and people were able to see him as more physically capable than maybe they would've otherwise. In Once Upon a Time in the West Bronson looks like a dude you really don't want to gently caress with. Like how Arnold is still able to be in action movies because people just want to feel nostalgic about a time when Arnold was Arnold.
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Mar 8, 2018 22:22
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Narzack posted:I think I agree. I can't think of anything that tops it. He doesn't have a word of dialogue after "I don't know, I'm making this up as I go", just grunts and gasps and little "nrruh" noises. His acting is entirely physical, but it's great - everything is conveyed by his expression. He starts out frantic, begins to get into the thrill of the chase once he gains control of the truck, gets cocky - and is then shot. After that, it's all rising desperation and panic and sheer Nazi-hating fury until he finally wins out. It's brilliant, and again it tells a mini-story by itself.
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Mar 8, 2018 22:24
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Basebf555 posted:And remember that Bronson WAS a legit badass in his time, he made is name in Westerns. So he had built up good will from that and people were able to see him as more physically capable than maybe they would've otherwise. In Once Upon a Time in the West Bronson looks like a dude you really don't want to gently caress with. Like how Arnold is still able to be in action movies because people just want to feel nostalgic about a time when Arnold was Arnold. He was also Leone's first choice for A Fistful of Dollars, because he was a really big star in Europe at the time. Bronson had done The Dirty Dozen as well in the late 60s (his other westerns included Red Sun, which I've never seen but really want to because his co-star was Toshiro Mifune) but even before Death Wish he'd been doing early 70s action movies with guys like Michael Winner and Don Siegel (The Mechanic, The Stone Killer etc.). Of course, Bronson was in his 50s when the first Death Wish movie came out and given the subject matter it was essentially ground zero for the "dad's revenge" subgenre that everybody associates with Liam Neeson nowadays. Edit: Another action/fight scene I like is the bit in The Raid where he fights a bunch of guys with machetes. Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Mar 8, 2018 |
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Mar 8, 2018 22:29
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Narzack posted:What do you guys think are some of the most perfect action sequences in western film? I say western, because I’m trying to stay away from martial arts movies, as it’s kinda easy mode. Other than the ones you listed I'll add the final chase in Terminator 2. The one that leads into the smelting plant. It's short but it executes a few action beats really well, including the moment burned in my brain where the T-800 climbs up onto the semi's cab and fires point blank into the T-1000 (all practical stunt work). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o47mJDUluLw For a more modern classic there's the Nick Fury car chase scene from Winter Soldier. Well, a good chunk of it is hardly a "chase" but the tension-catharsis of that early part with the gun Fury uses is great and the overall premise of the scene of Fury still able to kick rear end with this super truck that's been battered to poo poo and immediately disabled is used to full effect throughout. Full of Jackson's anger and humour too, naturally. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C1Nv1f8QHY
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Mar 8, 2018 22:38
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DivisionPost posted:Whenever the conversation turns toward Banshee I like to show people this as a teaser. The only thing that bothers me about that scene is the old 'biting someone to get out of an armbar' cliche. A few years ago, I got to do a seminar with Paul Cale, a cage fighter and Commando (you can google him, he's a pretty interesting guy) who has actually killed at least one person hand to hand (he actually got a citation or something for it). I asked him about that biting thing, and he pointed out that the muscles and structure that hold the jaw together are actually really small, certrainly compared to the arm or leg, and the defence is to force the bitten limb further into their mouth, which has a good chance of dislocating the jaw. And he said it with the dispassionate confidence of someone who may have actually tested it. I like pulling that story out when I inevitably get into the 'MMA wouldn't work in a street fight because i can gouge and bite' argument with someone. Sorry, I digress. Banshee was fantastic, and got progressively more ambitious in its action scenes season on season. Season 1 had some good karate fights, but by season 3, they stuff like Burton vs Nola or the episode which is entirely head and security cam footage. Then in season 4, the budget was clearly slashed, because there were about two fight scenes in the whole season. Narzack posted:What do you guys think are some of the most perfect action sequences in western film? I say western, because I’m trying to stay away from martial arts movies, as it’s kinda easy mode. I mean, how can you top the end of Drunken Master 2, or the teahouse shootout from Hardboiled? Jet Li vs the General at the end of Fist of Legend? Also, it feels to me that the western action scene is a carefully crafted beast, more of a showcase of the director and editor, whereas the martial arts scenes are usually showcases of the performers themselves. Which isn’t to say that one is better than the other, though, I think it can be argued that there is a purity and value in seeing just how good some of the performers are. The big freeway chase in Matrix Reloaded, despite being stuck in really bad movie, is pretty amazing. It's a symphony of score and stunt work. Despite some ground breaking SFX work, the overwhelming majority of car crashes are real. Sorry to name drop, but I got to interview the great Debbie Evans, the stunt driver who did Trinity's motorcycle work. Despite a massive career going back to the 70s, it's her favourite sequence of hers that she's done. Also, the mall fight in Police Story 1 and the playground fight in Number 2 are Chan's...Chaniest work. I don't know if they're his best fight scenes, but I'm not sure there's a particular sequence that better encapsulates what made him unique as a performer and choreographer. The rhythmn, speed, the clarity of what's going on, the way the geography is clear, the way you're never wondering 'why don't all rush him?' No one else could have done that sequence. Ditto on the rope factory fight in Miracles. Basebf555 posted:It's because that kind of old-school action movie isn't what studios are spending money on right now. It's all about super heroes and huge tentpole franchises. In the 80's I think someone like Adkins would've been given more of a mainstream shot at action stardom by now, but the appetite just isn't there for it, at least that's what the people making the decisions seem to think. When Adkins does pop up in something larger, it's to get knocked out by two punches in 'The Bourne Ultimatum' or lose a fight to a cape in Doctor Strange. Just speaking of big action sequences, the strange backwards fight in Doctor Strange is a perfect example of a really ambitious action scene that couldn't pull off its ideas. They shot just enough of it for the audience to get the idea, but clearly couldn't figure out how it actually worked, so we just get an impression of the scene. Also, those things are made on a production line now. It reminds me of a Jackie Chan quote "Do you best, because the movie lives forever" if you ever needed to understand why Jackie is Jackie, that's pretty much why. Penpal posted:That Kung Fu Hustle example posted upthread has the best use of the score to help the visuals immediately change the mood - there's actually 2 - when coolie grabs the lighter, and when him and the tailor meet back-to-back The big wide shot of Tam standing in front of the entire ax gang, making you realise what he's actually standing up to, is loving gorgeous, especially as it pairs with the music. That whole movie is brilliant. It's a kung fu comedy that truly loves, understands and respects the genre. Lobok posted:For a more modern classic there's the Nick Fury car chase scene from Winter Soldier. Well, a good chunk of it is hardly a "chase" but the tension-catharsis of that early part with the gun Fury uses is great and the overall premise of the scene of Fury still able to kick rear end with this super truck that's been battered to poo poo and immediately disabled is used to full effect throughout. Full of Jackson's anger and humour too, naturally. That serves better as a reminder that you can't just throw money at a scene, since 'The Raid 2' did a better version of that chase a month earlier with a budget roughly equal to TWS' catering budget. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orNKptscG0A
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Mar 8, 2018 23:16
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Incidentally, if you want some old-school automotive destruction on a Michael Bay scale, check out the German TV series Cobra 11 (random collection of spectacular crashes here ). The show's been running for ages, is now literally made by the stunt team, and has had some genuinely movie-level stuntwork and explosions. I can't find the clip (they're pretty proactive about taking them down), but I saw one where they tried to recreate the Golden Gun corkscrew jump with an 18-wheeler, and drat near succeeded.
Small Strange Bird fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Mar 8, 2018 |
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Mar 8, 2018 23:22
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Totally missed the part where we were supposed to be limiting the discussion to western films, sorry about that. Anyway I think it's going to be quite a long time before we get anything that tops the John Wick films.
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Mar 8, 2018 23:28
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I loved the opening long take of JCVD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCyl_CnTNMI It manages to simultaneously parody straight to dvd movies while being a legit cool action sequence.
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Mar 9, 2018 00:01
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Snowman_McK posted:
Really need to rewatch Raid 2. I own it but haven't seen it since the theatre. I don't remember any of it except for a vague memory of fighting inside a car and the restaurant part with the Mad Dog actor. I think the longer runtime always discourages me and I opt for Raid 1 instead.
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Mar 9, 2018 01:35
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Lobok posted:Really need to rewatch Raid 2. I own it but haven't seen it since the theatre. I don't remember any of it except for a vague memory of fighting inside a car and the restaurant part with the Mad Dog actor. I think the longer runtime always discourages me and I opt for Raid 1 instead. It has a pretty solid gangster movie plot with twists and turns and all that, but with all the amazing martial arts mixed in. Definitely rewards multiple viewings in a different way than The Raid did. I love when a sequel sets itself apart like that.
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Mar 9, 2018 01:44
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mobby_6kl posted:I loved the opening long take of JCVD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCyl_CnTNMI The Soundtrack is baller, too. Lobok posted:Really need to rewatch Raid 2. I own it but haven't seen it since the theatre. I don't remember any of it except for a vague memory of fighting inside a car and the restaurant part with the Mad Dog actor. I think the longer runtime always discourages me and I opt for Raid 1 instead. It's a perfect movie for putting on in the background. It also contains the only good riot/mass gang fight scene anyone has managed to film.
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Mar 9, 2018 01:45
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X-Ray Pecs posted:As far as my favorite action scenes that haven’t been mentioned, the entire third act of Commando is stupid as hell and I love it to pieces, because it absolutely does not give a gently caress. You might like this, these guys seem to understand how ridiculous it was and embrace it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfBTOZu2jik
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Mar 9, 2018 08:42
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The Raid movies are directed by a Welshman and I don't know why I think that's funny; I suppose it's odd that he hasn't been offered anything in Hollywood (or even back in the UK) yet.
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Mar 9, 2018 09:29
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Wheat Loaf posted:The Raid movies are directed by a Welshman and I don't know why I think that's funny; I suppose it's odd that he hasn't been offered anything in Hollywood (or even back in the UK) yet. He's got this coming up in September, I'm pretty excited for it because I love The Guest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostle_(film) Anyway I'm not 100% sure that Evans really set out to be a feature film director. He met Iko Uwais while filming a documentary on Silat, and it inspired him to try to make a movie based around them. Also, going through the Bourne movies again after someone was talking about them earlier in the thread, and I still really am not a fan of Supremacy. The first film was so streamlined and basically perfect, Supremacy just doesn't have enough plot OR action to carry you through 2 hours. And it commits the crime of wasting Karl Urban, which is unforgivable. Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Mar 9, 2018 |
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Mar 9, 2018 15:10
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Lobok posted:Other than the ones you listed I'll add the final chase in Terminator 2. The one that leads into the smelting plant. It's short but it executes a few action beats really well, including the moment burned in my brain where the T-800 climbs up onto the semi's cab and fires point blank into the T-1000 (all practical stunt work). I loved that scene as a kid. There's a real feeling that the T800 is pissed off and is going out of his way to gently caress up the T1000. Teenage me was PUMPED watching that. Terminator 2 is full of masterful chases and action sequences. The music plays such a huge role, too. The bike scene in the storm drain when Arnie slips past the truck on the inside JUST making it, grabs John and the music swells... perfect. In fact, the music throughout the sequence from the mall to the final bike escape is just amazing and tells a story itself. Also the scene where the SWAT team shoot at Sarah and the music stops dead. Cameron has always been amazing at musical cues though. Aliens has the battle in the processing tower, the drums playing as they retreat, the crazy strings when the alien breaks through the window, the sudden stop for "eat this", etc. The dropship escape at the end... all amazing sequences blended with the music beautifully (which is especially impressive given the crazy timeframe and rehashed score). You can see his skill in Terminator 1 with the night club escape. Arnie leaping through the flames, punching the window out, being thrown clear. He's always had a great way of showing the flow of an action sequence.
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Mar 9, 2018 17:47
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Re: James Cameron and chase scenes: I really like the big one in True Lies where Art Malik makes his getaway on a motorcycle and Arnold chases him on horseback. I don't remember if that's where he said, "I need a different kind of hoss-powah!" but I hope it was.
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Mar 9, 2018 18:08
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Wheat Loaf posted:Re: James Cameron and chase scenes: I really like the big one in True Lies where Art Malik makes his getaway on a motorcycle and Arnold chases him on horseback. How could I forget True Lies?! Although my favourite scene from that film is Art Malik's face when Arnie appears beneath him in a Harrier jumpjet. It just captures the "am I seeing this poo poo?" moment perfectly
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Mar 9, 2018 18:18
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my fave action scene is the final chase sequence from mad max fury road. the camera work did a superhuman job of keeping your eyes on the most important part of each frame even though theres a hundred things going on in every second
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Mar 9, 2018 18:35
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The “brothers in arms” scene from Fury Road, where they’re being chased by the bikers, is also really great. Especially in how it uses movement in the frame to keep the viewer oriented and directed amidst all of the chaos going on.
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Mar 9, 2018 18:59
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