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Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





Tokamak posted:



The inevitable consequences of race science

Wreckage88 going to bat for diversity in the comments there makes me extremely confused lmao

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Daztek
Jun 2, 2006



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx_v2w2HTG0

Star Citizen Alpha 3.1 is really good guys

Daztek fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Mar 9, 2018

Tank Boy Ken
Aug 24, 2012
J4G for life
Fallen Rib

Beet Wagon posted:

Wreckage88 going to bat for diversity in the comments there makes me extremely confused lmao

Perhaps he was born in 1988, and doesn't know any better.

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything



Fun Shoe

Virtual Captain posted:

My favorite part about 'we need a little marker rendering for the mission giver' is that it is avoidable and imo preferable.

Instead of giving the player a giant OK GO HERE sign constantly, why not just give them a quest log at says "return to [QUEST_GIVER] at [LOCATION]" and just display the highlighted info when the player is looking at the map. Of course in Robertsian development they need a HUD overlay for all 30 points of interest.

The most user friendly version, imo. Would be to have that and then switch to the objective marker once you land given how complex their spaceport layouts are.

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Scruffpuff posted:

Except that's not what emergent gameplay means. Which adds up to this being yet another industry standard that Chris doesn't understand.

Emergent gameplay arises when players use implemented and designed gameplay elements in ways developers might not have expressly coded, but which the sophistication of the simulation allows anyway. Playing "catch" with a live grenade in a shooter, writing your signature on the walls using bulletholes, that sort of thing.

When you "plan" for emergent gameplay by basically not making a game, forcing players to make up poo poo due to the complete lack of anything to do or see, and you wind up with Big Benny's.

That's not emergent gameplay - it's desperation. And in 2018, desperation is the name of the game.

Well that’s nitpicking, isn’t it?

See, it’s like my man Matilda says, “That’s a poo poo ton of wasted time on your part. But man you can put a lot of sugar on your turds. Let me tell you how I see it...”

I’ve got one word for what you clearly don’t get about The Code Whisperer and I need you to listen really carefully because if you do, the gestalt will surely follow.

”Fidelivision.”

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Beet Wagon posted:

Wreckage88 going to bat for diversity in the comments there makes me extremely confused lmao

The text for the OP is even worse than I thought.

Who the gently caress "usually" sees a black person with pearly white elvis hair?

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





gooncati posted:

for those interested in performance news, the new patch doesn't offer much. Remember that fresh servers always perform better due to low player numbers and low NPC/physics clutter.

I have seen averages in the 20 fps range with dips below 10 fps so far on aging servers with a regular number of players. Pretty much 3.01 business as usual

You also have to remember that given the current state of the patch with general instability, memory leaking and rather quick gameplay degradation, many players only access a server for a few minutes which leaves population and load lower than on the average live server

















monkeytek
Jun 8, 2010

It wasn't an ELE that wiped out the backer funds. It was Tristan Timothy Taylor.

Virtual Captain posted:

My favorite part about 'we need a little marker rendering for the mission giver' is that it is avoidable and imo preferable.

Instead of giving the player a giant OK GO HERE sign constantly, why not just give them a quest log at says "return to [QUEST_GIVER] at [LOCATION]" and just display the highlighted info when the player is looking at the map. Of course in Robertsian development they need a HUD overlay for all 30 points of interest.

But, everything is dynamic! Quest givers will not be puppets with sticks up their asses sitting in one location 24/7! Indeed they will have lives and move around. In fact I'm sure they will visit their mothers in as of yet undetermined solar systems so of course you need constant updates as to positioning!

monkeytek fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Mar 9, 2018

ZenMaster
Jan 24, 2006

I Saved PC Gaming

That post is legit unnerving. That would be a killer sci-horror flick.

Nicholas
Mar 7, 2001

Were those not fine days, when we drank of clear honey, and spoke in calm tones of our love for the stuff?
Just a reminder that 3.1 is focused on improving performance

https://www.dualshockers.com/star-citizens-alpha-3-1-performance/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2o1bJQQIXE&t=1722s

quote:

Star Citizen: Reverse the Verse LIVE - Alpha 3.0 Q&A
Published on Jan 12, 2018


Erin @28:46: So 3.1 is uh, we're very much focusing on.. <brief mini stroke word salad> this is a lot to do with uh think we got the 3.0 out want to get out there get the feed back. So 3.1 is all about a big drive to solidify all that stuff [the 3.0 release], as well as one or two new features we're going to push for. Uhm, but mostly its about... biggest one, and we're focusing it on already, which is a big thing, is performance. so you know getting all of the 3.0 stuff, all the different base checks(?) all the current stuff just getting the features working is a massive deal. And now we're taking.. and what we're doing is now we've got some of our more senior guys really taking the time out to basically now go in and do these huge optimization passes.

So we basically know.... we we we...... we know where we need to optimize. theres a lot of stuff which is stuff, we just, you know, when your doing the feature (crush inside?) you, you know, then thats focu, neeeyy neey knoww its supposed to foptimization. so thats a big one. so the plan for 3.1 is that uhm, it should be much faster than 3.0 is. and so it should be <garbled> experience, much better experience for the community.

SomethingJones i dont understand how you dont get an aneurysm from transcribing these videos.

Nicholas fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Mar 9, 2018

Scruffpuff
Dec 23, 2015

Fidelity. Wait, was I'm working on again?

Nicholas posted:

Just a reminder that 3.1 is focused on improving performance

https://www.dualshockers.com/star-citizens-alpha-3-1-performance/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2o1bJQQIXE&t=1722s


SomethingJones i dont understand how you dont get an aneurysm from transcribing these videos.

Star Citizer: theres a lot of stuff which is stuff

Aramoro
Jun 1, 2012




Scruffpuff posted:

Exactly. Which is why my eyes rolled into the next time zone when I first heard Chris explain how he was "planning for" emergent gameplay "possibilities."

There's nothing that fucker doesn't get wrong.

I would disagree to a degree when you say you can't plan for emergent game play. If you look at things like Space Station 13 or Dwarf Fortress they are essentially designed with emergent game play in mind. They don't know what those interactions will be, they just know that by modelling puddles and cats in enough detail something will happen. Like cats dying of alcohol poisoning from licking alcohol off their feet after walking though puddles of it in a bar.

Now what Chris thinks he is doing it making something as intricately detailed as Dwarf Fortress but in Space. Like I using my mining ship to drag asteroids out of orbit to bombard a planetary base. You wouldn't need to plan for that specific thing to happen, just to make planets have realistic orbital and gravitational mechanics, have ships that can pull asteroids around and then suddenly with enough maths you can bomb cites from space. It cannot be said strongly enough that this is NOT what he has created.

Scruffpuff
Dec 23, 2015

Fidelity. Wait, was I'm working on again?

Aramoro posted:

I would disagree to a degree when you say you can't plan for emergent game play...

...Like I using my mining ship to drag asteroids out of orbit to bombard a planetary base. You wouldn't need to plan for that specific thing to happen...

Kinda my point.

Aramoro posted:

It cannot be said strongly enough that this is NOT what he has created.

It's impossible for me to agree harder with this statement.

iospace
Jan 19, 2038


https://i.imgur.com/DERgKTD.gifv

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Guys you really need to stop faking these. Seriously.

Kilmers Elbow
Jun 15, 2012


Look at Star Citizen utilising the exact amount of available memory.

That's programming!

ManofManyAliases
Mar 21, 2016
ToastOfManySmarts


Can't post for 3 hours!

Streetroller posted:

They filed a Motion to Dismiss.

Judge has two options: A) allow written rebuttal, B) hear the motion in court.
The latter option generally means the judge finds the case interesting enough to hear the motion personally.

Just an fyi: everyone files an MTD. It's common practice. In civil small claims court, it almost always goes to hearing.

Scruffpuff
Dec 23, 2015

Fidelity. Wait, was I'm working on again?

Kilmers Elbow posted:

Look at Star Citizen utilising the exact amount of available memory.

That's programming!

And like the Native Americans of yesteryear, they're also responsibly using every part of the CPU.

Bayonnefrog
Nov 9, 2017

SomethingJones posted:

Star Citizen: Around the Verse - Performance and Optimization
March 8 2018


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU0sMZbhqoU

@38:00

Clive Johnson:
Miles is sat in his bar, in Levski. And you're on Port Olisar.

So we need a little marker rendering on your client, showing where Miles is, so you know where to head. But with BIND CULLING the Miles Eckhart entity won't be there, so what do we draw the marker on?

So those are the kinds of problems we need to figure out ways to deal with it, there's a couple of different ways we can deal with that situation and... (cut)

But until we do, we can't really put BIND CULLING in because it would break the gameplay. Probably won't see the full implementation of bind culling in until as I say, we get object container streaming in. Ehm... but for us internally we need to get it in as soon as possible before we can move on with some of the other stuff that we're planning.

So another thing which we've kind of done, I've mentioned BIND CULLING, I've mentioned OBJECT CONTAINER STREAMING, ehm... there's also SERIALISED VARIABLE CULLING, em... which is because we can't do bind culling just yet, because we can't get it out into the hands of the backers... SERIALISED VARIABLE CULLING is what we CAN do.

source http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/6239/

source http://dereksmart.com/forums/reply/6078/


[b]Bind Culling and serialised variable were BOTH supposedly in development for v2.6 in 2016:



They even included them in press releases:




Bind Culling coming in 2.6
Bind Culling coming in 2.6.1
Bind Culling coming in 3.0
Bind Culling coming in 3.1
Bind Culling coming in 3.2
Bind Culling necessary to make the game run at >20fps with 8 clients

non technical person here. Could someone explain what bind culling is for the lames like myself? Thanks.

roflingstones
May 19, 2009
bind culling forever

tuo
Jun 17, 2016

Daztek posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx_v2w2HTG0

Star Citizen Alpha 3.1 is really good guys

The inevitable consequences of fidelity

Bayonnefrog
Nov 9, 2017

whatever happened to that heavy SC employee that would pop up from time to time. Bill something?

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

ManofManyAliases posted:

Just an fyi: everyone files an MTD. It's common practice. In civil small claims court, it almost always goes to hearing.

You sound like a man who knows a thing ‘er two about the law, friend. What’s your Star Citizen story?

Also, RTV is on.

Zest
May 7, 2007

ACHIEVE HEAVEN THROUGH VIOLENCE

Is... that... Heat-reactive hair dye? Is it real?! I want it... :syoon:

Golli
Jan 5, 2013



G0RF posted:

You sound like a man who knows a thing ‘er two about the law, friend. What’s your Star Citizen story?

Also, RTV is on.
Shall we drink to the the lady with the white shoes?

https://youtu.be/hV2Q41o-rwE?t=2m10s

PederP
Nov 20, 2009

Bayonnefrog posted:

non technical person here. Could someone explain what bind culling is for the lames like myself? Thanks.

It's being able to not send updates on everything in the universe to everyone connected to the server. They have a network engine where this is not possible. They need to make this possible before they can even begin to be smart about what updates to send to what clients at what frequency.

tuo
Jun 17, 2016

Bayonnefrog posted:

non technical person here. Could someone explain what bind culling is for the lames like myself? Thanks.

Simple. You get the awesome idea of creating assets (like ships) that have like - I don't know - one thousand objects. Like, it's not a single 3d model with couple of doors, but you are a genius and decide that the basic structure of every wing (wings are important for spaceships!) is an object, and the armor on top is an object, and the engine attached to it is an object.....have you played Horizon: Zero Dawn? Basically take one of those machines, and at least quadrupled the amount of distinct objects it is made from. That is a great idea, right? You have a super high-fidelity thing, where every thing is an actual "thing", an object.

As if that is not enough, you decide that your character should have all the objects....a gun, no, make that three, with a dozen of attachments to it. A coat...or four coats, a monocle, a tophat.....

Sounds great? That's nothing. You wanna have a couple of those guys running around in your ship made out of a thousand distinct objects, so you can pew pew, and mix drinks, and mop the floor on the dirty object. Also, if you pew pew, every single bullet is an object! No dirty hitscan/rayhit or poo poo like that, nooooo.

Then you throw all of this into an MMO, where the goal is to have hundreds if not thousands of players with hundreds if not thousands of ships into an engine that is made for rather small FPS combat. It's core only knows one thing: everyone participating in this match - excuse me - universe has to know about everyone else, because this is an FPS, and we have what, maybe a hundred objects max if someone spams the grenade launcher?

Now you have like thousands of objects, and an engine that is built upon the principle that it basically runs the same thing you run as a client, but on the server, and calculates all object interaction, each frame. So before your client can render the next frame, it has to wait for the server to get the info from all the other clients how they hosed around with the sevenhundredthousand objects (someone might have mopped a floor), validates it, simulates some stuff, and then sends the update to these eighthundredbazillion objects (someone a thousand kilometres away might have dropped his hairy roberts drink) to everyone else. THEN your client can render the next frame and blit it to your screen.

This......might pose a problem....it might get very slow.

Now, you might say, than reduce the number of objects, this is silly!

No, says the Thumb, this is fidelity!

So the solution obviously is to only send you the updates on the objects you might be able to interact with....like in a 5km radius or stuff like that. Of course, the server still has to gently caress around with the twentyeightgazillion objects (a Hull E exploded and decided to spill it's manually fetched cargo boxes into the universe) and still chokes.

This is stupid, you say, and you demand that they reduce the number of silly objects!

No, says the Thumb, we can mesh servers, so they can share the workload!

Of course this brings about another thousand problems, because the handover of those seventyeighthundredmillionbazillion objects from one server to another might prove to be rather hard.

PLEASE, OH PLEASE MY LORD, REDUCE THE NUMBER OF OBJECTS!!!!

No, says the Thumb, we can stream in these object containers!



I actually forgot what you asked, but I also forgot about nested physics grids which makes this whole mess even more messy...sorry, ask someone else, I don't understand game development (actually, I really don't).

tuo fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Mar 9, 2018

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Zest posted:

Is... that... Heat-reactive hair dye? Is it real?! I want it... :syoon:

It is absolutely real and it is awesome and I kinda want it but I doubt I could ever look good with it.





http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/femail/video-1527645/Vivids-Mood-Color-heat-reactive-color-changing-hair-dye.html

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

Toops posted:

One thing I think is pretty cool is when this thread turns into a reddit reader app.

Love readin' about what those little guys have to say!

They really need to go that extra mile though and make the screen captures mobile friendly.

Tokamak
Dec 22, 2004

Bayonnefrog posted:

non technical person here. Could someone explain what bind culling is for the lames like myself? Thanks.

It means that the server will only send you updates for objects (players, ships, NPCs, cargo...) that are relevant/nearby. Currently the network code sends you updates for every object in the universe.

AutismVaccine
Feb 26, 2017


SPECIAL NEEDS
SQUAD

Kilmers Elbow posted:

Look at Star Citizen utilising the exact amount of available memory.

That's programming!

Windows is so well crafted, it runs with almost nothing

AutismVaccine
Feb 26, 2017


SPECIAL NEEDS
SQUAD

tuo posted:

Simple. You get the awesome idea of creating assets (like ships) that have like - I don't know - one thousand objects. Like, it's not a single 3d model with couple of doors, but you are a genius and decide that the basic structure of every wing (wings are important for spaceships!) is an object, and the armor on top is an object, and the engine attached to it is an object.....have you played Horizon: Zero Dawn? Basically take one of those machines, and at least quadrupled the amount of distinct objects it is made from. That is a great idea, right? You have a super high-fidelity thing, where every thing is an actual "thing", an object.

As if that is not enough, you decide that your character should have all the objects....a gun, no, make that three, with a dozen of attachments to it. A coat...or four coats, a monocle, a tophat.....

Sounds great? That's nothing. You wanna have a couple of those guys running around in your ship made out of a thousand distinct objects, so you can pew pew, and mix drinks, and mop the floor on the dirty object. Also, if you pew pew, every single bullet is an object! No dirty hitscan/rayhit or poo poo like that, nooooo.

Then you throw all of this into an MMO, where the goal is to have hundreds if not thousands of players with hundreds if not thousands of ships into an engine that is made for rather small FPS combat. It's core only knows one thing: everyone participating in this match - excuse me - universe has to know about everyone else, because this is an FPS, and we have what, maybe a hundred objects max if someone spams the grenade launcher?

Now you have like thousands of objects, and an engine that is built upon the principle that it basically runs the same thing you run as a client, but on the server, and calculates all object interaction, each frame. So before your client can render the next frame, it has to wait for the server to get the info from all the other clients how they hosed around with the sevenhundredthousand objects (someone might have mopped a floor), validates it, simulates some stuff, and then sends the update to these eighthundredbazillion objects (someone a thousand kilometres away might have dropped his hairy roberts drink) to everyone else. THEN your client can render the next frame and blit it to your screen.

This......might pose a problem....it might get very slow.

Now, you might say, than reduce the number of objects, this is silly!

No, says the Thumb, this is fidelity!

So the solution obviously is to only send you the updates on the objects you might be able to interact with....like in a 5km radius or stuff like that. Of course, the server still has to gently caress around with the twentyeightgazillion objects (a Hull E exploded and decided to spill it's manually fetched cargo boxes into the universe) and still chokes.

This is stupid, you say, and you demand that they reduce the number of silly objects!

No, says the Thumb, we can mesh servers, so they can share the workload!

Of course this brings about another thousand problems, because the handover of those seventyeighthundredmillionbazillion objects from one server to another might prove to be rather hard.

PLEASE, OH PLEASE MY LORD, REDUCE THE NUMBER OF OBJECTS!!!!

No, says the Thumb, we can stream in these object containers!



I actually forgot what you asked, but I also forgot about nested physics grids which makes this whole mess even more messy...sorry, ask someone else, I don't understand game development (actually, I really don't).

Thank you for your effort.

Aramoro
Jun 1, 2012




Bayonnefrog posted:

non technical person here. Could someone explain what bind culling is for the lames like myself? Thanks.

Culling in Cry Engine is the process of working out which objects to render. So if you're just staring at a wall then you only need to render that wall and nothing else. There's no point rendering objects which are behind you. What they're trying to do is expanding this to not even caring that the object exists as well as not rendering it. So you care about the person running about on the ship beside you, you don't care about the person running about on the planet below you. So what they want is for your client to not even know about the person on the planet, you can't interact with him so he might as well not exist.

The Miles Eckhart thing is just one problem, you can't put a marker on Miles if he simply doesn't exist to your client.

his nibs
Feb 27, 2016

:kayak:Welcome to the:kayak:
Dream Factory
:kayak:
Grimey Drawer

dude says massive player battles are still a thing

single shard rip though :negative:

big nipples big life
May 12, 2014

Remember the door on some chariot that wouldn't work if if you weren't looking at it?

Is that still in the game?

his nibs
Feb 27, 2016

:kayak:Welcome to the:kayak:
Dream Factory
:kayak:
Grimey Drawer

big nipples big life posted:

Remember the door on some chariot that wouldn't work if if you weren't looking at it?

Is that still in the game?

only when you look at it

big nipples big life
May 12, 2014

his nibs posted:

only when you look at it

nice

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

G0RF posted:

The only female backers I can think of are streamers I’ve rarely seen. There’s like 8 or so I can think of.

I will predict 1, but CIG might import some on the sly to diverse the verse. They do have the issue of optics to consider since they’re filming the event and appearances matter. If it’s a standing room only wienerschnitzel society I’m not sure whether that sends the right signal or not.

Then again, the signal is kinda doinked by design because these are people over $1000 invested in spaceships who paid $350 for an audience with his royal highness. Chris Roberts feted by whales doesn’t exactly seem like it has positive play either to the public or the plebeian citizens. It just puts whale-fracking right under the microscope and pretends it’s normal. Inside the Reality Distortion bubble emanating from Chris and Sandi it is but I’m not sure where else...

I expect lots of these type soundbites to drive the message home over what will be a seemingly quiet summer for backers. Everything is fine.

:lol:

I'd have to color my hair bright purple or pink and get all trendy clothes and I'm fine with that.

But I'd have to buy Star Citizen and that's a game changer. Sorry, can't help your sausage citizen problem.

mdxi
Mar 13, 2006

to JERK OFF is to be close to GOD... only with SPURTING

seedship posted:

Arcadia's tall alien plants reach hundreds of metres into a blue sky. The colonists live in tall cities of steel and glass beneath the planet's open sky, beside rivers that flow into the planet's oceans. Poverty, exploitation and crime are rife, and the corrupt elected government does little to alleviate them. The colonists' culture mostly ignores the native inhabitants, who live in their own communities in other parts of the planet. In the first city stand monuments to the 131 colonists who did not survive the journey, the 202 more who died building the first settlement, and the seedship AI that guided humanity to its new home.

Total score: 9006

It turns out that you can somewhat cheese the ending by finding the planet you want, getting the final analysis, then closing the tab and reopening it from your history (in Chrome, at least). I didn't think it would work at all, but I wanted to share my results after I noticed people sharing theirs so I tried loading it back up. I ended up back in orbit around the planet I had colonized before I closed the tab. I landed again, and the RNG kicked in: my planet changed name from "Garden" to "Arcadia", I had more colonists die despite having one fewer "bad" events on landing, my native relations switched to "isolationism" from "enslaved bronze-age pop", and my score rocketed from ~7600 to 9006.

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One in the Bum
Apr 25, 2014

Hair Elf

Chris Roberts: "so, that's basically already in the game, just have to layer in the spookiness."

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