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Dark Off
Aug 14, 2015




SomethingJones posted:

Ben Lesnick played through all of Squadron 42 and Chris Roberts can't even come up with its 2018 roadmap.

And a SQ42 roadmap won't be published btw. Because it'll be added straight into the lawsuit as evidence that there's a second title in development. That's why I've been banging on about it, there's the Chris transcript THERE in which he says the roadmap will be a realtime mirror of the internal JIRA, and here is Skadden HERE saying that a second title is in breach of the licence.

So it took CIG 3 months to realise what I realised in 2 minutes. They can't publish a SQ42 roadmap, you will never see a SQ42 roadmap because CIG know loving rightly they don't have a license to develop SQ42 on CryEngine.

that didn't stop them from admitting it in the legal document



someone needs to adjust the 4th stimpire lore a bit.

Dark Off fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Mar 11, 2018

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Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.
:pray:

veiled boner fuel posted:

tldr: there isn't any real exploration in SC, it'll be like Eve, at best.

"Like EVE" would be a miracle for CIG in any aspect.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Dark Off posted:

that didn't stop them from admitting it in the legal document



someone needs to adjust the 4th stimpire lore a bit.


Hold the loving phone... I thought CIG have only been developing Star Citizen since 2015? What the gently caress is this 5 and a half years (+1 year for prototyping) bullshit?!

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry
Honestly though its kind of funny that Crytek is seeking a refund of the license and CIG thinks they can pull off the same tactics as they do against their own backers.

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

Good Dumplings
Mar 30, 2011

Excuse my worthless shitposting because all I can ever hope to accomplish in life is to rot away the braincells of strangers on the internet with my irredeemable brainworms.

veiled boner fuel posted:

tldr: there isn't any real exploration in SC, it'll be like Eve, at best.

tbf, exploration is the vaguest mechanic ever so it's perfect for a DREAM BIG project. I'm really curious what specifically people expect exploring to involve when all the current implementations are either "minigame that finds random dungeon" or "drive around empty rock, occasionally find prefab placed in the middle of nowhere"

Kilmers Elbow
Jun 15, 2012


Make a Wish Foundation

:unsmith:

SelenicMartian
Sep 14, 2013

Sometimes it's not the bomb that's retarded.

One thing the backers can't imagine exploring is the possibility of SC not coming out.
Chris will deliver beyond the wildest dreams.

Tarquinn
Jul 3, 2007

I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you
my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal.
Hell Gem

SelenicMartian posted:

One thing the backers can't imagine exploring is the possibility of SC not coming out.
Chris will deliver beyond the wildest dreams.

Chris Roberts cannot fail the backers, the backers can only fail Chris Roberts.

Deathsquid
Apr 26, 2017

A Neurotic Corncob posted:

She's doing a pretty good Jim Carrey face there.



14 disciples of Christ Robbers (where is he btw, preparing the last supper or what?)

Edit: Oh, maybe Ben ate the previous last supper and they have to refactor the pipelines.

EightAce
May 10, 2015

Watch it all come crashing down on his head and wonder why any of us gave him money in the first place.

Deathsquid posted:

14 disciples of Christ Robbers (where is he btw, preparing the last supper or what?)

Edit: Oh, maybe Ben ate the previous last supper and they have to refactor the pipelines.

You have to pay $350 a head to attend the last supper

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me



For comparison, Judas made $215 in attending the actual Last Supper.

Sillybones
Aug 10, 2013

go away,
spooky skeleton,
go away

:psypop:

:psypop:

Sillybones fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Mar 11, 2018

Kilmers Elbow
Jun 15, 2012

his nibs
Feb 27, 2016

:kayak:Welcome to the:kayak:
Dream Factory
:kayak:
Grimey Drawer

AP posted:

The funny bit approaches.

:stare:

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy

Streetroller posted:


:sludgepal:
Pucker up, butter cup.

So, you're saying the Defendants don't know what version control is?

i like how there's quotes around product, build, and version.

https://i.imgur.com/P7IbTEV.mp4

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





They can’t be allowed to have all of our previous versions because that would put us at serious risk of having to admit we never fully remove all of the cryengine code from our game, you see.

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.
:pray:
Just a note here, The kickstarter ended on Nov 19th, 2012 and according to this document they signed the GLA on Nov 20th, 2012.

The way I see this. If CryTek built the demo, pitch, etc. They had no idea if it would go anywhere and formally sold it to Chris/CIG the day after the kickstarter ended (presumably CIG now had the money)


Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004
Exciting Lemon

Dark Off posted:

that didn't stop them from admitting it in the legal document



someone needs to adjust the 4th stimpire lore a bit.


Huh. I guess development really didn't start until the Kickstarter ended. Which meant that Chris lied in his Mittani interview. That or they're lying here and know full well that development started a year before the pitch with CryTek.

Amazing how much assets like the Hornet and Bengal look like those ships in the teaser video. You know, the one that wasn't part of game development.

Is lying in these documents bad?

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos

Beet Wagon posted:

They can’t be allowed to have all of our previous versions because that would put us at serious risk of having to admit we never fully remove all of the cryengine code from our game, you see.

Nice FUD goonie, they took 2 days to change engine, obviously it was a thorough job

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004
Exciting Lemon
I want to live in a world where CIG "accidentally" deleted everything and then the build Disco leaked ends up somehow loving them over.

Wuxi
Apr 3, 2012

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

I want to live in a world where CIG "accidentally" deleted everything and then the build Disco leaked ends up somehow loving them over.

I want to live in a world where CIG does stuff, because whatever they do, its hilarious.

Natron
Aug 5, 2004

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Hold the loving phone... I thought CIG have only been developing Star Citizen since 2015? What the gently caress is this 5 and a half years (+1 year for prototyping) bullshit?!

Joke's on you, FUDster, they're still in the prototyping phase. Development hasn't even started yet, and won't for the foreseeable future. Not everyone has the patience for game non-development, I guess. :smuggo:

Ayn Marx
Dec 21, 2012

God drat Star Citizen backers look like a bunch of mutants :v

Quavers
Feb 26, 2016

You clearly don't understand game development
David Swafford's Media company earning its monthly payment: a new shill account appears...












:allears: :homebrew:

Quavers fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Mar 11, 2018

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.
:pray:

G0RF posted:

There’s probably even more lorewank out there preemptively normalizing their next level fleecing plans. But really, just listen to Lando pre-hype the “brand new game mechanic that’s taken the Star Citizen community by storm” on a video with 1000 downvoted. Then later to the Roberts Brothers and Haddock talking through it all. It’s worth watching it all as preamble to what is surely aimed to be their biggest revenue diversification pivot.

2016 Ben Lesnick: "To be honest, specifically, the likes, dislikes does not especially matter to us. We're still in a very much gut feeling in terms of reaction. After doing this for a couple years we kind of have our sources for how people, the sources we trust to actually represent the community so, I know when this person is outraged and they're complaining that I should definitely listen to them and we should think about things different, but pure numbers for, "They didn't retweet this enough" or "This ship sold 80% instead of 90% of what we expected" not especially valuable to me personally."



Yes CIG listens to the backers.

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004
Exciting Lemon

I was one of those sources. It doesn't mean a loving thing.

iospace
Jan 19, 2038


Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

I was one of those sources. It doesn't mean a loving thing.

Question, for you specifically, what was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back for you to finally go "That's it, I'm done."?

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Virtual Captain posted:

Just a note here, The kickstarter ended on Nov 19th, 2012 and according to this document they signed the GLA on Nov 20th, 2012.

The way I see this. If CryTek built the demo, pitch, etc. They had no idea if it would go anywhere and formally sold it to Chris/CIG the day after the kickstarter ended (presumably CIG now had the money)




I was re-reading Kotaku UK’s primary story recently and it’s quite worth a re-read in light of the Crytek lawsuit. The entire piece is even harsher than I remembered, particularly on Chris, but also in how it exposes an organization simmering with intra-studio conflicts, internal power struggles, and resentments of Roberts’ tyrannical ego and tornadic managerial dysfunction.

The origin of their demo is discussed in well-rounded detail. With Benson talking to so many different sources — current and former employees, people at present and past subcontractors — the tale is three dimensional. We have far more reasons to trust the summary offered there because it is the distillation of multiple accounts, and at a time when there wasn’t a legal dispute fracturing genesis narratives along the newly opened “Crytek vs. CIG” divide.

quote:

At the same time as choosing an engine to run his prototype, Roberts was building the team that would help him make it. With no idea of whether the prototype would be a success, it didn’t make sense to set up a studio and hire staff at the beginning. Instead, Roberts set up his studio virtually and, besides a few freelancers, delegated a lot of the grunt work to third-party contractors who already had established teams of developers. He contacted Sergio Rosas, Roberts’ art director back in the 1990s, who now ran an outsourcing company called CGBot in Austin, Texas. He also hired a studio called Behaviour to create assets for the prototype.

As this small team started to work on the prototype, the project attracted the attention of a couple of people working over at Crytek, the game engine’s developer. Sean Tracey, Paul Reindell and Hannes Appell were all fans of the Wing Commander games and lent a hand where they could. Appell, for instance, who is now director of cinematics on Star Citizen, created videos to show off the prototype to investors using the assets that were created by Behaviour and CGBot.

Even as a prototype, Star Citizen was a global game. Chris, working out of LA, was joined by developers in San Francisco, Austin, Montreal, and Mexico (with a little help from Crytek out in Frankfurt). This early remote setup “made me think well, maybe we don't need to have one centralised studio”, Roberts told me. “Maybe we can spread this out and we can collaborate across the different areas and go to where the talent is.”

This setup, however, would be the start of another set of desires issues during Star Citizen’s early development: a spread-out set of developers with oceans between them faced challenges that a more centralised studio wouldn’t have. From the very beginning, CIG was using third-party contractors, remote studios, and virtual collaboration. All those choices made sense when developing the prototype, but as the team, scope, and budget of Star Citizen grew, the studio structure would have to radically adapt.

That early cinematics work done was so vital — in some ways the true rock upon which the Church of Chris Roberts was built. It was the proto-marketing tool that first allowed him to sell the dazzling future via fictional depictions of it and it also helped Roberts sell his own game dev credibility to the 2012 era of gamers. Man did they get a lot of marketing mileage out of those cinematics starting at the GDC debut, then in his crowdfunding videos (which ended up embedded in countless gaming news outlets declaring GET HYPE!) and well into the next year until even more cinematics work kept the whole formula fresh.



Lesnick’s hubris there, his happy insularity, feels learned via osmosis through close proximity to Chris and Sandi. Fawning servility at their sides went to his head. The only way community feedback ever prompts CIG to action is when some crisis of frustration articulated online becomes a viral phenom (like PoisonTaco’s post about the Referral Program last year). From there, CIG follows 1 of 3 branched narratives:

1) Public dismissals by leadership — Chris brushing off Star Marine or Ortwin writing a Sunday reply to the Coutts Loan Story both offered variations on “No big deal!”

2) Acknowledgement and assurances — “we here you and here’s what we’re going to commit to do (and not deliver upon) to shut you up!”

3) Ignoring it — (see your Lesnick quote for reasons.)

Quavers posted:

David Swafford's Media company earning its monthly payment: a new shill account appears...



:allears: :homebrew:

That should fix the narrative — it’s worked so well before!

G0RF fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Mar 12, 2018

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004
Exciting Lemon

iospace posted:

Question, for you specifically, what was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back for you to finally go "That's it, I'm done."?

Lying about Squadron 42 in 2016 after the TOS change back in June. Whatever event they had in November was so bad that I just accepted it was all bullshit. In December someone posted yet another rumor about CIG failing and I accepted the risk of getting left out wasn't worth it.

D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
College Slice

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Huh. I guess development really didn't start until the Kickstarter ended. Which meant that Chris lied in his Mittani interview. That or they're lying here and know full well that development started a year before the pitch with CryTek.

Amazing how much assets like the Hornet and Bengal look like those ships in the teaser video. You know, the one that wasn't part of game development.

Is lying in these documents bad?

He lied.

As I wrote back in 2015, I know - for a fact - that Crytek was working with him during 2011 to build the proof-of-concept material used to promote the game.

Thing is, they didn't use it to build the game up from there, as it was never intended to be used for that.

This is where the disparity between the actual dev start dates, and his claims, come into focus. He lied about it in order to gain the confidence of backers who were misled into thinking that the project 1) was that far along 2) would look and play as was seen in those tech demos.

Then we didn't see the hangar until 08/09/2013, with the first flight capable build of Arena Commander, showing up on 06-04-2014.

And neither of those had any of the assets of effects from the tech demo. Why? Because it was all scrapped, as they couldn't be used for an actual "game".

Now in the recent filing, they are claiming that the project has been in development for five and half years now. Which - if true - means that actually development on what we have now, didn't actually start until sometime in late 2012.

These are some of the things that Crytek is likely to uncover in their extensive discovery request, and which CIG is trying to prevent ahead of the hearing on the motion to dismiss.

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iospace
Jan 19, 2038


Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Lying about Squadron 42 in 2016 after the TOS change back in June. Whatever event they had in November was so bad that I just accepted it was all bullshit. In December someone posted yet another rumor about CIG failing and I accepted the risk of getting left out wasn't worth it.

Explain a little more? I sort of lost track of the whole thing for a few years from 2015 or so to when the crytek suit broke.

neonbregna
Aug 20, 2007

Dark Off posted:

that didn't stop them from admitting it in the legal document



someone needs to adjust the 4th stimpire lore a bit.


🤢

SPERMCUBE.ORG
Nov 3, 2011

Space commies are th' biggest threat t' red-blooded American Freedom we got in th' future. So me and my boys got to talking over a few hot dogs the other day and this is what we came up with...

Deathsquid posted:

14 disciples of Christ Robbers (where is he btw, preparing the last supper or what?)

My theory is that he no longer exists. You see, shortly after the birth of their children, Sandi devoured his entire head in one bite. The Chris Roberts who has been selling jpegs to nerds, therefore, is just a super high-fidelity 3d model mocapped from the inflatable sock man outside his used car dealership. The turtlenecks were to conceal the seam between the model's head and torso. It was a nice try but you gotta wake up pretty early in the morning to pull the wool over my eyes.

Quavers
Feb 26, 2016

You clearly don't understand game development

Star Citizen Wiki posted:

The Lightspeed - LTI package is a pledge package that was only available for a limited time.

On 19 November 2013 this package was offered for $135 USD in the Pledge Store.

Idiot Citizen posted:

Still no computer
:ughh:

CrazyLoon
Aug 10, 2015

"..."
Where we're going, we don't need computers to dream!

Just a credit card

D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
College Slice

iospace posted:

Explain a little more? I sort of lost track of the whole thing for a few years from 2015 or so to when the crytek suit broke.

http://dereksmart.com/2015/07/star-citizen-blogs/

http://dereksmart.com/forums/topic/star-citizen-musings/

http://dereksmart.com/forums/topic/sc-scoop/

:grin:

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This thread brought to you by a tremendous dickhead!

D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
College Slice
Lies, lies, and more lies - The Chris Roberts mantra.

----------------
This thread brought to you by a tremendous dickhead!

Mne nravitsya
Jul 14, 2017

G0RF posted:

I was re-reading Kotaku UK’s primary story recently and it’s quite worth a re-read in light of the Crytek lawsuit. The entire piece is even harsher than I remembered, particularly on Chris, but also in how it exposes an organization simmering with intra-studio conflicts, internal power struggles, and resentments of Roberts’ tyrannical ego and tornadic managerial dysfunction.

The origin of their demo is discussed in well-rounded detail. With Benson talking to so many different sources — present and past employees, employees at present and past subcontractors — the tale is well rounded.
We


That early cinematics work done was so vital — in some ways the true rock upon which the Church of Chris Roberts was built. It was the proto-marketing tool that first allowed him to sell the dazzling future via fictional depictions of it and it also helped Roberts sell his own game dev credibility to the 2012 era of gamers. Man did they get a lot of marketing mileage out of those cinematics starting at the GDC debut, then in his crowdfunding videos (which ended up embedded in countless gaming news outlets declaring GET HYPE!) and well into the next year until even more cinematics work kept the whole formula fresh.


Lesnick’s hubris there, his happy insularity, feels learned via osmosis through close proximity to Chris and Sandi. Fawning servility at their sides went to his head. The only way community feedback ever prompts CIG to action is when some crisis of frustration articulated online becomes a viral phenom (like PoisonTaco’s post about the Referral Program last year). From there, CIG follows 1 of 3 branched narratives:

1) Public dismissals by leadership — Chris brushing off Star Marine or Ortwin writing a Sunday reply to the Coutts Loan Story both offered variations on “No big deal!”

2) Acknowledgement and assurances — “we here you and here’s what we’re going to commit to do (and not deliver upon) to shut you up!”

3) Ignoring it — (see your Lesnick quote for reasons.)


That should fix the narrative — it’s worked so well before!

You are the Bob Woodward of Star Citizen :discourse:

Derek is CNN. There are some kernals of truth in there, but they are deeply buried in hyperbole

Mne nravitsya fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Mar 11, 2018

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D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
College Slice

Mne nravitsya posted:

Derek is CNN. There are some kernals of truth in there, but they are deeply buried in hyperbole

:negative:

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