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Lumpen posted:Quid and Gene are seeming very tentative and "hands-off" as well, and it pings me bad. Where's Quid? I don't want to trigger lovers or it's quite likely scum win. I'm being cagey about it having been done already (or not) because that informs scum strategy. But yeah, if I triggered it, I could come clean about a lot of things. That hurts town, though.
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Mar 12, 2018 19:06
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Lumpen posted:You're refusing to think this through, and that is Scummy. FWIW, I'm not sure what you are looking for from him that you aren't getting. Lumpen posted:Quid and Gene are seeming very tentative and "hands-off" as well, and it pings me bad. Where's Quid? Sure, but how is that different then how hands off and cagey DC was? Or how RF's play looks at all. This is a thing we are dealing with from all of them. Today is going to be harder from Gene and Quid since both are under PR. But I imagine Quid is at school at the moment.
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Mar 12, 2018 19:08
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Tobbs Gnawed posted:What am I missing? Whichever of you is scum can take it home in LYLO. If the Masons are not Lovers and have the Town win condition, then they should have no logical objection to voting off Tobbs first. And if they ARE Lovers, but have the Town win condition, what logical reason would they have for concealing being Lovers? They do not appear to have the Town win condition.
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Mar 12, 2018 19:12
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Lumpen posted:Nope. Actually game out the scenarios. This is annoying, and genex and Quid are probably gonna be pissed, but here we go. Genex, Quid, and I are CONFIRMED TOWN MASONS. And now we're lovers. We lied about the alignment picking because we had to lie about our alignment in order to not become lovers. Vote me (us) out if you must, but that makes tomorrow LYLO. I'm pretty sure you're the last scum, Lumpen, so good luck!
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Mar 12, 2018 19:18
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Well, that was really dumb. But if it's the truth, explain something to me. Why did Quid not consider you for sure town earlier in the game when he was listing out people's alignments? Example: Quidthulhu posted:A List~ He lists reasons for knowing me and Gene are town, but you are left out of that.
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Mar 12, 2018 19:27
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As you've probably noticed, we had to do some weird stuff to get our brutal cops. D1. Use sweet and water in one of our posts. D2. Post 5 lines of song lyrics D3. End the day with our votes on each other. And we all had to survive to D4.
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Mar 12, 2018 19:28
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Tobbs Gnawed posted:This is annoying, and genex and Quid are probably gonna be pissed, but here we go. Doesn’t telling us this change that now by your logic?
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Mar 12, 2018 19:28
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Tobbs Gnawed posted:This is annoying, and genex and Quid are probably gonna be pissed, but here we go. If RF is Scum and can both kill AND assign FTs, then Town could lose, but that's the only possible way as I see it.
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Mar 12, 2018 19:30
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We had to come up with a fakeclaim for our alignments. To make the alignment picking claim sound real, we decided I would be the scummiest one they could point to being suspicious. If we don't get voted out before Quid and genex can confirm, they'll confirm it for you.
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Mar 12, 2018 19:30
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Lumpen posted:This claim changes absolutely nothing about my case for flipping Tobbs, or the danger of believing what the Masons say and giving them potential control of the vote. If the game continues after flipping Tobbs (and I do believe that this will flip all the Masons regardless of whether Tobbs "just made" them Lovers or they have always been), and if you all flip Town then I am sorry it had to be that way, you will still win with Town. Then if KB dies at night we lynch: RF if there are no FT's and DC if there are FTs. If KB does NOT die at night and there are 4 alive and there are FT's... we can Nolynch eternally until someone gets tired and confesses I guess. If there's never another nightkill I think that fulfills Town's wincon and we call the game for Town. Which does us no good if you are now scum who got alignment switched due to injection. We can't find a thing that injections do so far and they must do something.
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Mar 12, 2018 19:32
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Is alignment switching still a thing in games? I thought the SA community decreed that it was awful and not to do it.
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Mar 12, 2018 19:53
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King Burgundy posted:Which does us no good if you are now scum who got alignment switched due to injection. I guess it's a risk you'll have to take. Reread me, re-read the Masons, re-read RF. If you want to bet on the Masons being Town wincon, you can lynch RF with them today, they will all die in the night presumably (OR IMMEDIATELY WIN BECAUSE THEY ARE LYING), but then potentially it would be a LYLO of KB/DC/Lumpen the and you can choose DC or Lumpen. If you want to bet that I somehow changed alignment due to injection, you could lynch me and risk the Masons controlling the vote. I think RF is still pinned from doing a kill if Scum in that case and Masons likely do not have a kill, and so there would be no nightkill again and you'd have Masons/KB/RF/DC tomorrow, with FT's. Then I guess you'd lynch RF, and the Masons would either win from controlling the vote, or Town would win if they're honest, or if DC is Scum, RF would flip Town, the Masons all die in the night, and DC endgames KB. I know I'm Town, so from my perspective we have this in the bag as long as Masons go first, and RF if Scum is not allowed to both assign FTs and kill.
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Mar 12, 2018 20:06
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Dead Cow posted:Is alignment switching still a thing in games? I thought the SA community decreed that it was awful and not to do it.
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Mar 12, 2018 20:11
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Yeah, it's coloring my meta, I've seen town turn into lovers, but I haven't seen town turn to scum or vice versa in forever. That would be the least likely scenario and it's weird that KB would push that. Also, if you're scum Lumpen then you've played the most brilliant scum game I've ever seen.
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Mar 12, 2018 20:45
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FWIW, I'm super torn now. I can find reasons for everyone to be scum, but going the slow way and taking out RF today and maybe DC tomorrow still gave the masons a chance to take out lumpen if he was scum on the final day. If the masons weren't already lovers though, Tobbs move is one of the dumbest plays I've ever seen anyone make. Since cuddling him was relatively safe and would still let us catch the last scum. But forcing us to lylo with Lumpen/RF/DC is bound to force a loss no matter which one of them is scum. So I'm left with, did Tobbs just make a super dumb move, something I know he's capable of? Or was this his only move as the last scum remaining? If Quid and Gene confirm his story, it means he cannot be scum and is instead either dumb, or the masons are a 3p or something and not scum. But if they were a 3p, they were a very town favorable one. Also, we know that they would still be hosts, since Quid was brutal copped. --- Likewise, with Lumpen, if he got flipped to scum, pretty much his only chance here was to get the lovers out together so he can force a miscuddle on RF or DC. So he would of course try and pick and prod at Tobbs to get him to make them lovers.
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Mar 12, 2018 20:45
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Lumpen posted:My opinion on any sort of alignment change or cults is firmly established. If my alignment were hosed with in a game I would modkill myself immediately, and flame the poo poo out of the mod. Or at the VERY least replace out without a word if I was feeling particularly charitable. That's just an appeal to meta though, so take it as you will. Dead Cow posted:Yeah, it's coloring my meta, I've seen town turn into lovers, but I haven't seen town turn to scum or vice versa in forever. That would be the least likely scenario and it's weird that KB would push that. I've seen alignment changes, but it's rare. It does fit the nature of the flavor in this game though. But let's pretend it didn't do that. What purpose did the injections serve? What was bread doing all game lying about his own injection and injecting others. Surely it served a purpose?
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Mar 12, 2018 20:47
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I wish tobbs didn't do that, but he's very much honest can't wait to "talk" with my lovers tonight
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Mar 12, 2018 20:54
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I'm loving hating this post restriction it's not the only thing I'm loving tho
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Mar 12, 2018 20:57
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King Burgundy posted:I've seen alignment changes, but it's rare. It does fit the nature of the flavor in this game though. So, 50 said that he believed the masons were anti town. Also, who all did 50 inject, mmt and lumpen, who else?
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Mar 12, 2018 21:00
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The whole thing about picking alignments has now been admitted as a lie. Look back at GeneX's claim about it and Tobbs' new claim about it. The excuse for the lie stinks and does not hold up logically. I reason that they were always Lovers. None of them is likely Scum. They are likely their own thing.
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Mar 12, 2018 21:06
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Dead Cow posted:So, 50 said that he believed the masons were anti town. Also, who all did 50 inject, mmt and lumpen, who else? Dancer
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Mar 12, 2018 21:10
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Lumpen posted:The whole thing about picking alignments has now been admitted as a lie. Look back at GeneX's claim about it and Tobbs' new claim about it. The excuse for the lie stinks and does not hold up logically. I reason that they were always Lovers. None of them is likely Scum. They are likely their own thing. Right, we started as 3P lovers with our own wincon because that's fair lol.
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Mar 12, 2018 21:13
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Like I said, good luck in LYLO scumpen.
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Mar 12, 2018 21:18
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King Burgundy posted:But let's pretend it didn't do that. What purpose did the injections serve? What was bread doing all game lying about his own injection and injecting others. Surely it served a purpose?
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Mar 12, 2018 21:18
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Tobbs Gnawed posted:Right, we started as 3P lovers with our own wincon because that's fair lol. ##unvote Good point. On phone now will post more later have to think
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Mar 12, 2018 21:23
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I'm trying to figure that out, especially as it looks like 50 was not injecting people on his team
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Mar 12, 2018 21:24
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Tobbs Gnawed posted:Right, we started as 3P lovers with our own wincon because that's fair lol. Big games have had two scumteams before where one is scum and the other is it's own faction.
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Mar 12, 2018 21:24
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Dead Cow posted:I'm trying to figure that out, especially as it looks like 50 was not injecting people on his team Right, to me, the simple/obvious solution at this point is that it was to alignment switch someone after he died. Early on I assumed he was an arsonist who was going to blow a bunch of people up at once, but there were actually good opportunities to do that that he didn't take advantage of. Reminder that if Lumpen was alignment swapped, he's only been scum since maybe Bread died? Or possibly it wouldn't take effect until all scum died, so he got turned as a result of Merk dying. Dead Cow posted:Big games have had two scumteams before where one is scum and the other is it's own faction. The ridiculous part is that they'd start as lovers. Since any one of our killers this game(scum/SK/weird erasing dude?) could have taken them all out with one shot. Also, if you are positing they are another scum team, note that there has been no unaccounted for kills to lead us in that direction.
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Mar 12, 2018 21:31
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King Burgundy posted:Right, to me, the simple/obvious solution at this point is that it was to alignment switch someone after he died. Early on I assumed he was an arsonist who was going to blow a bunch of people up at once, but there were actually good opportunities to do that that he didn't take advantage of. They've been given some scum killing tools that were pretty powerful. At this point I think we're spinning our wheels until other people chime in
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Mar 12, 2018 21:34
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Dead Cow posted:They've been given some scum killing tools that were pretty powerful. But again, Quid was copped as a Host. So if he's "scum" as you say, they are a scum team that are actually hosts?
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Mar 12, 2018 21:36
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Also, do the math on everyone that was in this game. If those three are another scum faction, that means out of 22 people we had: 1 survivor who erased, whatever that is. 1 survivor who snaked people and resurrected one of them and won. 1 SK who could also delay kill. 5 scum with a variety of powers, one of which, injection, we still haven't figured out. AND 3 other scum! Half the thread would be non town. Think it through.
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Mar 12, 2018 21:40
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Votecount for Day 9  Retro Futurist (1): King Burgundy, GeneX, Lumpen (1): Tobbs Gnawed Tobbs Gnawed (1): Lumpen, Dead Cow, Not Voting (4): King Burgundy, Lumpen, Quidthulhu, Retro FuturistWith 7 alive, it's 4 votes to execute. There is currently no deadline set.
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Mar 12, 2018 21:48
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I was talking about how other big games could have more than one faction, not specifically that this game has two scum aligned scum teams. I said earlier that I could see them being lovers, like some sort of host aligned 3rd party. The 3rd party people who've flipped so far (the sk and whatever dancer is) have shown as human. Why not have some 3rd party town?
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Mar 12, 2018 21:54
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Would still mean half the thread wasn't town. Seems unlikely. More likely is there is only one scum left, either they started as scum, in which case it is either DC or RF, or possibly they got injected and converted, in which case it could also be Lumpen. Bringing us to 9 total non town out of 22, which is a bit extreme, but maybe allowable since the SK and scum could have taken each other out and we had a lot of potential brutal cops. --- I won't put my vote down till everyone has a chance to have their say. But it is extremely unlikely I'll be voting a mason today. It would take astounding feats of convincing. So if we don't cuddle scum today, they will take out the masons tonight and it will be Me and whoever we don't cuddle tomorrow.
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Mar 12, 2018 22:07
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The acknowledgement/triggering/claiming of Lovers, and GeneX confirming it, and the revised claim now that the previous "alignment choosing" claim was a Lie, sort of changes the equation. 1. I don't think any of the Masons are Scum, if GeneX says now that there was no alignment choosing and that he was just a big ol' Liar who made that poo poo up (why?) 2. I still feel unsure the Masons are Town. 3. Even so, I doubt the Masons have a Nightkill up their sleeve. If they do, they can get control of the vote tomorrow if we lynch anyone today who isn't a Mason. I feel like there's some aspect I'm missing, there's something not-right about the Masons lying and going out of their way to elaborate on the lie, if they're Town. But with the new information I guess I can see some possibility that they're now all telling the truth. Since lynching only Tobbs is not possible now, I'm inclined to lynch RF, hope he's Scum and that ends the game, and if not then betting that the Masons don't have a nightkill. If the game ends with a Mason Win, at least I'll have the personal satisfaction of having calling it, and I think I've made my best case.
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Mar 12, 2018 23:56
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Not sold on Lumpen being scum anymore. Pushing one of us is the easiest way to get a win for scum. ##unvote
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Mar 13, 2018 00:05
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Tobbs Gnawed posted:Not sold on Lumpen being scum anymore. Pushing one of us is the easiest way to get a win for scum. That would have absolutely guaranteed a Town victory, wouldn't it? Doubling down by claiming to trigger Lovers to save yourself just isn't optimal Town play if you're really Confirmed Town Masons. If you are still concealing aspects of your role now, if you're Town there would be absolutely no reason for it. Can you give more information? What is the flavor behind the mechanics you've claimed? What are your characters? How do you think your roles are inspired by the show?
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Mar 13, 2018 00:13
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I made it up (with input, it wasn't, like, a spur of the moment decision exactly) because faking alignment choosing helped get a guy I thought was a cultist lynched and kept 2 confirmed town alive to endgame like, Quid got brutal daycopped by MMT and no one's touched him, if we didn't throw in the ambiguity he's maybe dead earlier and one of the trackers is around to take on a huge amount of suspicion. Instead scum ended up clearing things up (by killing Tolly+AS, assuming) because they also didn't know what the hell was going on quite a mouthful, eh? I'd love to get a different kind of mouthful later. 
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Mar 13, 2018 00:14
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What were your song lyrics?
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Mar 13, 2018 00:14
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Lumpen posted:Tobbs if you would have flipped CONFIRMED TOWN MASON by yourself, why wouldn't you have just let yourself go, to Confirm the other 2 beyond any doubt? Specifically because confirmed town is in my role PM but not my role info that would flip. Yeah, I asked DBD in mason chat about it.
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Mar 13, 2018 00:18
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