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The working conditions being legendarily bad is probably the single biggest reason not to go into game development.
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Mar 17, 2018 20:17
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It sounds like being a line chef except with robots and lasers
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Mar 17, 2018 20:46
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Deptfordx posted:Joking aside. The persistence of crunch in the games industry and making people work 100 hour weeks for months is bizarre and crazy. it's because there are enough applicants for jobs to make labor expendable. it doesn't matter if you lose programmers after a few years when there are two or three more people ready to fill the slot. the replacements may be less qualified that the burned out person you replaced, but you can pay them less in wages, so it is win-win for the managment. think of it as more like 1800s railroad or mining work, where the number of workers you lose blowing tunnels into mountains doesn't matter because there are always more chinese or irish who need a job and have no other options. on topic, everything i see about the battletech game makes it look more awesome.
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Mar 17, 2018 21:12
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GoluboiOgon posted:it's because there are enough applicants for jobs to make labor expendable. it doesn't matter if you lose programmers after a few years when there are two or three more people ready to fill the slot. the replacements may be less qualified that the burned out person you replaced, but you can pay them less in wages, so it is win-win for the managment. think of it as more like 1800s railroad or mining work, where the number of workers you lose blowing tunnels into mountains doesn't matter because there are always more chinese or irish who need a job and have no other options. It's also the case that anyone qualified enough to be coding on a game is also qualified enough to be earning many multiples of a game dev salary doing programming in the commercial world, so you have employees who have self selected for poor salary.
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Mar 17, 2018 22:10
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GoluboiOgon posted:it's because there are enough applicants for jobs to make labor expendable. it doesn't matter if you lose programmers after a few years when there are two or three more people ready to fill the slot. the replacements may be less qualified that the burned out person you replaced, but you can pay them less in wages, so it is win-win for the managment. think of it as more like 1800s railroad or mining work, where the number of workers you lose blowing tunnels into mountains doesn't matter because there are always more chinese or irish who need a job and have no other options. That may be the reason, not my field. I do know it's still dumb as hell when they have a 3 month crunch working 100+ hour weeks to try to finish a game. There's a large body of research in working and productivity, some of it literally dating back to Henry Ford's time. They all show efficiency plummets and errors soar as the work day lengthens. They will end up getting less work completed than if they had simply stuck with a normal 40 hour week. Because people aren't robots, but if you make them work 100 hour weeks you'll get zombies, who *spoiler alert* aren't very good at coding.
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Mar 17, 2018 22:16
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You can see that in action with a pretty simple experiment, too. Stay up all night, then go in to work the next day. You'll feel like utter poo poo and make all kinds of stupid mistakes.
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Mar 17, 2018 22:20
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Man, I can't wait to make a Punch-bot to tear my enemies asunder.
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Mar 17, 2018 22:42
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Whilst obviously being aware that the games industry likes to crunch, I'd never really thought about it before. It's obvious why the treat their employees like poo poo and pay them the least they can, but why do they also enforce such inefficient work schedules? Why this industry in particular when pretty well everyone else has know this is a bad idea for coming on a century?
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Mar 17, 2018 23:24
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Koorisch posted:Man, I can't wait to make a Punch-bot to tear my enemies asunder. Sadly, triple strength myomer is lostech and hatchets have yet to make it off the drafting table (in the real world sense).
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Mar 17, 2018 23:28
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Pharnakes posted:Whilst obviously being aware that the games industry likes to crunch, I'd never really thought about it before. Its not exclusive to the video game industry. A lot of them do it, they just don't get as much attention.
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Mar 17, 2018 23:33
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A.o.D. posted:Sadly, triple strength myomer is lostech and hatchets have yet to make it off the drafting table (in the real world sense). It's pretty easy to break 100 damage with DFAs and a couple assaults punch for over 100 as well
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Mar 17, 2018 23:40
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Pharnakes posted:Whilst obviously being aware that the games industry likes to crunch, I'd never really thought about it before. There's tons of industries where damagingly excessive hours are is the norm, videogames are just an outlier in the length and intensity of their crunch periods.
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Mar 17, 2018 23:50
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Zore posted:Its not exclusive to the video game industry. A lot of them do it, they just don't get as much attention. Yeah, it's pretty endemic in, for example, film post-production. In that case it's mainly because they only have a limited window in which they can do the necessary work, but having a strong union prevents the worst abuses. I have no doubt that if they could get away with having their 'technical' people crunch longer for no extra compensation they would. Random Asshole fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Mar 17, 2018 |
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Mar 17, 2018 23:53
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Deptfordx posted:Joking aside. The persistence of crunch in the games industry and making people work 100 hour weeks for months is bizarre and crazy. Yup, crunch is a scourge, and companies are fools to force it, even with the glut of applicants, because it takes awhile to get up to speed on a project in mid course. Have a Kotaku article! https://kotaku.com/crunch-time-why-game-developers-work-such-insane-hours-1704744577
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Mar 18, 2018 00:25
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As a counterpoint, I offer you this managerial training film from the 80's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoAfb3f04mo
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Mar 18, 2018 00:30
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Zaodai posted:As a counterpoint, I offer you this managerial training film from the 80's:
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Mar 18, 2018 00:34
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Koorisch posted:Man, I can't wait to make a Punch-bot to tear my enemies asunder. Phrosphor is doing a kickass lp, using a hacked beta and MekHQ for the campaign side.
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Mar 18, 2018 00:40
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Zaodai posted:As a counterpoint, I offer you this managerial training film from the 80's: Your posting makes a lot more sense now, Cappellan.
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Mar 18, 2018 01:45
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sebmojo posted:Phrosphor is doing a kickass lp, using a hacked beta and MekHQ for the campaign side. Only about 2/3rds the way caught up but this LP is  and you should all go hop in. As an added bonus if you're like me and you're deliberately not watching the official media because you want to go in mostly unsullied, Phrosphor's story is totally his own thing, he's just using the HBS beta to resolve the battles.
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Mar 18, 2018 21:49
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Sorry if this has been hashed to death, but what's the theory on the turn order system? Is it equivalent in some sense to the table top system? Does one subsume the other? The table-top has the property that movement tells the enemy exactly where they can avoid that unit's fire this turn. On the surface it seems that the HBS game loses something here - is that the case or am I missing some way that the reserve system "saves" it?
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Mar 19, 2018 17:05
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double riveting posted:Sorry if this has been hashed to death, but what's the theory on the turn order system? Is it equivalent in some sense to the table top system? Does one subsume the other? You're missing a lot of it- The initiative system is fantastic and does a ton to add depth over TT's "roll a dice to see who moves first." It's especially good for making sure that light mechs are viable at all times, and that they still have a place in a rich company that can afford to field all assaults.
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Mar 19, 2018 17:22
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Gwaihir posted:You're missing a lot of it- The initiative system is fantastic and does a ton to add depth over TT's "roll a dice to see who moves first." It's especially good for making sure that light mechs are viable at all times, and that they still have a place in a rich company that can afford to field all assaults. 
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Mar 19, 2018 17:46
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A question I can't seem to find an answer to, is the multiplayer different servers for the GOG and steam versions? The reason I ask Dragon's Dogma GOG version was incompatible with the steam version leading to a split userbase.
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Mar 19, 2018 17:57
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Since there's no matchmaking, it might very well all be peer to peer. Someone in the Discord said PVP will require a Paradox account, so you'll certainly have a way to find people that isn't just a Steam ID.
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Mar 19, 2018 17:59
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They've said that the GOG/Steam/Humble versions will be compatible for multiplayer.
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Mar 19, 2018 18:00
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BattleTech posted:A question I can't seem to find an answer to, is the multiplayer different servers for the GOG and steam versions? The reason I ask Dragon's Dogma GOG version was incompatible with the steam version leading to a split userbase. I hadn't heard that. How the gently caress does that happen in this day and age?
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Mar 19, 2018 18:07
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Dragons Dogma was a capcom port that's how
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Mar 19, 2018 18:13
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Zaodai posted:Since there's no matchmaking, it might very well all be peer to peer. Someone in the Discord said PVP will require a Paradox account, so you'll certainly have a way to find people that isn't just a Steam ID. This page says they are using Playfab (that's the backend service Uber spun off for Planetary Annihilation). They were on that page even before the move to Paradox, though, so who knows. Gwaihir posted:TT's "roll a dice to see who moves first." To be clear, the table-top rules are that you roll dice to determine which player goes first (going first is bad), and then you alternate in moving Mechs but you can choose the Mechs in any order. So the first Mechs you move are kind of gambling on where the enemy will end up while the later ones get to (a) avoid enemy firing arcs and (b) ensure they can hit their targets. This (I think?) gives you an incentive to move the heavies first and use their firing arcs for terrain control while the lights get to try and whip out of harms way later on. In the HBS system, lights go first by default, but you can reserve them down so that (a) the enemy might move certain Mechs before you (exposing them) and (b) multiple of your Mechs might move/fire together; both at the cost of letting some enemies fire first. Gwaihir posted:The [HBS] initiative system [adds a ton of] depth [...] [It makes] sure that light mechs are viable at all times, and that they still have a place [instead of] all assaults. Care to elaborate in regards to the above? It seems to me that in TT, knowing exactly where a moved Mech will be able to fire gives lights a great boost. Again, it's not clear to me how this is compensated for in HBS' new system (which you appear to strongly imply it is). How do I protect my lights under the new rules?
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Mar 19, 2018 20:44
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Go watch Phros' hack job LP. It is awesome and you'll get a good look at how the initiative system works and what lights can do using it.
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Mar 19, 2018 20:47
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You can plan in three turn chunks, somewhat, getting your light in position out of los (A forest, around a hill, etc), then when you want to make your move, reserve all the way down to the last phase, run out and alpha strike, and then use your following turn first movement initiative, run away at full speed, which should be enough faster than the thing you were backstabbing that it can't catch you. Also, yea, the first mission in Phros's Let's Play shows what can be done really well I think.
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Mar 19, 2018 20:50
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Go watch Phros' hack job LP. It is awesome and you'll get a good look at how the initiative system works and what lights can do using it. My BT tabletop group in NYC assigns and shuffles cards, which seems to work pretty well versus rolling dice.
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Mar 19, 2018 20:57
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double riveting posted:This page says they are using Playfab (that's the backend service Uber spun off for Planetary Annihilation). They were on that page even before the move to Paradox, though, so who knows. In HBS initiative you can reserve a light to the last phase and move it in the last phase and shoot and then move it again in the first phase of the next turn before anyone has a chance to react to it and move it out of LOS again. Or just use both moves to backstab. But the every-other-turn firing LOS dance is especially strong with autocannons because it perfectly avoids the recoil penalty. HBS iniative also lets you preserve defenses to tank fire - run up a big evasion score or brace and reserve to give you enemy nothing but bad targets to shoot at and when they do they themselves don't have those defenses to soak up fire from your reserved mechs. One of the biggest struggles in any fight is trying to find the mech with the least defenses and getting as much fire on it before it can brace or move again, without also completely exposing your own. Going first is still a downside just like in TT, but the phases and reserving make it much more interesting. There's even a pilot talent to let that mech go 1 phase earlier, which means you can make a light mech that can still pull off the double-turn even against other light mechs. Or let an Assault Mech double-tap another assault.
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Mar 19, 2018 21:42
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double riveting posted:This page says they are using Playfab (that's the backend service Uber spun off for Planetary Annihilation). They were on that page even before the move to Paradox, though, so who knows. Not necessarily. You can also roll initiative per mech, a.though that gets tedious in big matches.
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Mar 19, 2018 21:51
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Ah, so reserving is best understood as shortening the time until you go again. The lighter the Mech, the shorter they can go. Cool, thanks guys. Will watch that LP.
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Mar 19, 2018 22:04
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It's worth your time to watch. The initiative system lets you manipulate turn order in a way that can favor you but the key is it can be countered by your opponent's manipulation of the same so it's not an automatic I Win Button. Mixing 'when to reserve' with 'when to act' correctly is how you get the most out of it. It's pretty cool. I am very bad at this but I've seen some truly impressive displays in the beta MP.
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Mar 19, 2018 22:11
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Psion posted:It's worth your time to watch. The initiative system lets you manipulate turn order in a way that can favor you but the key is it can be countered by your opponent's manipulation of the same so it's not an automatic I Win Button. Mixing 'when to reserve' with 'when to act' correctly is how you get the most out of it. It's pretty cool. Yeah, light mechs are the best example of this. Properly reserved they can utterly wreck heavies and assaults by darting into rear arcs, unloading, and then darting back out during their normal phase on the next turn. Buuuut. . . if you gently caress that up and reserve your light until the later phases and someone gets vision on them, congrats, you now have a light mech standing at a dead standstill and vulnerable to all manner of heavy weapons. I had more than one match in the beta where I tried to get clever with a commando and ended up getting it cored out by a heavy that wandered over to it. On the other hand I also had my commandos just devastate assaults in a way that was very satisfying. It's one of those high risk/high reward things where if you gently caress up you're boned but if you do it right holy poo poo those little guys can punch above their weight.
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Mar 19, 2018 22:49
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One thing to be said about not reserving - Damage resolution is instantaneous in HBS, compared to simultaneous on TT. So if/when you move your unit first to fire, if you can kill/cripple an enemy unit before it takes its turn, it's out and will never get to go. In TT, that unit wouldn't know it's dead until all the fire declarations are finished and rolled. Once you learn how to use the reserve system, it's a much more nuanced learning curve to figure out when not to reserve. You can move first to knockdown a vulnerable unit, which delays its turn by one phase and allows more of your units to make called shots on it.
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Mar 19, 2018 23:57
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https://twitter.com/BattleTech_Game/status/976134475112484864 Thursday, 1800 CET (1000 PDT) PDX is resuming streaming with HBS joining in for some combat tactics.
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Mar 20, 2018 18:50
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Tactics: don't take jobs from comstar
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Mar 20, 2018 22:54
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double riveting posted:Ah, so reserving is best understood as shortening the time until you go again. The lighter the Mech, the shorter they can go. Even more interesting is that Death From Above, the HyperRPG Battletech role play show switched to the same (or at least very similar) system. It really works very well even in this tabletop environment.
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Mar 20, 2018 23:01
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