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Magic Hate Ball posted:Iconoclasty isn’t anathema to moral turpitude, martyrdom, or just garden variety wrongheadedness. Gilliam absolutely believes himself to be tilting at an oppressive institution, that doesn’t mean he isn’t a clod.
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# ? Mar 17, 2018 08:25 |
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# ? Mar 28, 2024 22:57 |
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it's virtually impossible to separate a work from its creator unless you somehow are able to wipe your own memory. and if you can, sign me right up.
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# ? Mar 17, 2018 10:21 |
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I think it's definitely true that you can't separate the work from its creator, but I also don't think it's helpful to adopt some deterministic "oh well I guess that's just the way it's gotta be" outlook on Gilliam or any other filmmaker that shows their asses, at least not while they're still alive. You can be an agitator and an iconoclast without you know, thinking women should just give it up to Harvey Weinstein because they were cast in a movie. What Gilliam is saying isn't even ideological, it's just loving heinous and wrong.
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# ? Mar 17, 2018 10:29 |
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exquisite tea posted:What Gilliam is saying isn't even ideological, it's just loving heinous and wrong.
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# ? Mar 17, 2018 10:41 |
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not when a white man says or believes it you silly goose.
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# ? Mar 17, 2018 10:46 |
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What I mean is that Gilliam's statements are not in any way ideologically consistent with "tilting at oppressive institutions" or w/e, they're just wrong.
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# ? Mar 17, 2018 10:54 |
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esperterra posted:I'd argue they're good for cutting down on the kind of bullshit bullying kids of lesser means get for not having nice/designer clothes tbf That happens anyway, it just takes different forms. Countries with school uniforms aren't exactly famous for being exceptions in bullying data.
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# ? Mar 17, 2018 11:32 |
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exquisite tea posted:What I mean is that Gilliam's statements are not in any way ideologically consistent with "tilting at oppressive institutions" or w/e, they're just wrong.
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# ? Mar 17, 2018 13:32 |
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exquisite tea posted:What I mean is that Gilliam's statements are not in any way ideologically consistent with "tilting at oppressive institutions" or w/e, they're just wrong. With his perception of tilting at oppressive windmills. I’m talking about what Gilliam thinks he’s doing, and why it’s dispiritingly not out of line with his attitudes over the years. He’s always viewed himself as an iconoclast and that applies here with negative results. edit: and they are ideologically consistent - being iconoclastic was the bread and butter of the Python troupe and after that almost every movie he made was critical of the status quo (see his frequent attacks on organized religion, consumerism, and social conformity). He also spent his entire career trying to buck the system and biting back at producers (see the Brazil debacle), so it's not a huge surprise that he'd approach a hot-button topic like this and try to tear it down, because he's often positioned himself as the destroyer of what he perceives as the misguidedly accepted. Magic Hate Ball fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Mar 17, 2018 |
# ? Mar 17, 2018 15:26 |
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Some people are flawed. In fact, sometimes their flaws are a part of why they create interesting art!
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# ? Mar 17, 2018 19:14 |
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davidspackage posted:What I'd like, is, I'd like to hug and kiss you. Not enough gibberish or references to California, 5.5/10
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# ? Mar 17, 2018 19:59 |
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Meh, I guess I just don't care about the whole "artist is an rear end in a top hat" thing. It's just entertainment. If it entertains me, I'll keep watching it. If it doesn't, I won't.
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# ? Mar 17, 2018 23:51 |
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*sits you down and puts on jeepers creepers*
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# ? Mar 18, 2018 00:21 |
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Groovelord Neato posted:*sits you down and puts on jeepers creepers* How about Clownhouse from earlier in Salva's career?
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# ? Mar 18, 2018 00:24 |
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that was what i was making reference to!
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# ? Mar 18, 2018 00:25 |
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It thickens.... Hollywood Reporter: Ellen Barkin Tweets "Never Get Into an Elevator Alone" With Terry Gilliam
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# ? Mar 18, 2018 05:28 |
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Electric Bugaloo posted:It thickens.... Fuuuuck. C'mon dude.
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# ? Mar 18, 2018 05:32 |
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Electric Bugaloo posted:It thickens.... RIP The Man Who Killed Don Quixote
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# ? Mar 18, 2018 05:36 |
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LoL, but separate the art from the artist you guys come onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
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# ? Mar 18, 2018 05:56 |
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Electric Bugaloo posted:It thickens.... "The Brothers Grimm director" Harsh.
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# ? Mar 18, 2018 06:42 |
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Gilliam says Matt Damon got 'beaten to death' when he criticized the #metoo movement not giving any focus to men who aren't creepy lovely rapists. The dude got put on twitter blast for a few days and that's it. It's like these dudes are so used to feeling like they're on the right side, any kind of criticism is like physical violence. Also gently caress him
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# ? Mar 18, 2018 07:52 |
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wyoming posted:"The Brothers Grimm director"
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# ? Mar 18, 2018 08:22 |
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Rhyno posted:LoL, but separate the art from the artist you guys come onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn The whole point is people can still think the movie Brazil/12 Monkeys/whatever are excellent while clearly thinking Gilliam is a scuzzbag. I don't see how separating them is so impossible, it is almost like some people have this religious furor once something bad comes out about a creator. You can't exactly unwrite history and how you address it is always going to be complicated. Awful people can make interesting work and if it really sits unwell with you, well don't engage with it. It makes more sense financially to focus on avoiding future work anyway, if you want to actually punish said people.
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# ? Mar 18, 2018 08:56 |
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unlawfulsoup posted:if it really sits unwell with you, well don't engage with it. That's...what they're doing.
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# ? Mar 18, 2018 09:39 |
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Just another idealistic visionary, tragically blinded by his own principles..
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# ? Mar 18, 2018 10:02 |
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Like there's a really bad point buried within what Gilliam is saying. Damon said some things in a dumb way, but it's not like his career is over for it. He'll be fine. And yes, I have no doubt there are stars who have slept with Weinstein or others quite willingly to cement their career. There always have been and there always will be. But, that does not somehow wash away anything that he did. Just because some people slept with him willingly, doesn't magically excuse the fact that there are women he raped. But really, isn't this just another in a long line of 'older man has lovely opinions'?
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# ? Mar 18, 2018 14:19 |
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DrVenkman posted:Like there's a really bad point buried within what Gilliam is saying. Damon said some things in a dumb way, but it's not like his career is over for it. He'll be fine. Yeah, it's like Bill Maher defending Billy Bush. No, he doesn't have to "go away forever." Yes, he probably should show even the barest amount of self-reflection and perhaps attempt a meaningful apology if he wants to be in the public eye again. Like that's too loving much to ask, or something...
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# ? Mar 18, 2018 14:29 |
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DrVenkman posted:And yes, I have no doubt there are stars who have slept with Weinstein or others quite willingly to cement their career. There always have been and there always will be. But, that does not somehow wash away anything that he did. Just because some people slept with him willingly, doesn't magically excuse the fact that there are women he raped.
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# ? Mar 18, 2018 15:04 |
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Timeless Appeal posted:A person being taken advantage of sexually in order to further their career, keep their career, make ends meat, or just be treated as an equal isn't okay either even if they technically consented. There's a difference between a person being taken advantage of and a person deciding to use their body to get what they want as well though. No doubt that Weinstein and people like him are horrible, but there are people out there who will think nothing of using what they have to cement their career. Not that I'm defending Gilliam at all, but I think his point seems to be women who willingly did what they did and then when their careers didn't go the way they wanted they called rape, which is just about the dumbest take you can have. DrVenkman fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Mar 18, 2018 |
# ? Mar 18, 2018 21:06 |
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Or the funny uncle who’s engagingly caustic when you’re a teenager, but by the time you’re an adult he’s just scathingly bitter. lol i definitely have one of these
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# ? Mar 18, 2018 21:24 |
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if we're not counting Monty Python stuff Gilliam only has two good movies anyway
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# ? Mar 18, 2018 21:25 |
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DrVenkman posted:There's a difference between a person being taken advantage of and a person deciding to use their body to get what they want as well though. No doubt that Weinstein and people like him are horrible, but there are people out there who will think nothing of using what they have to cement their career. Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Mar 18, 2018 |
# ? Mar 18, 2018 21:29 |
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DrVenkman posted:There's a difference between a person being taken advantage of and a person deciding to use their body to get what they want as well though. No doubt that Weinstein and people like him are horrible, but there are people out there who will think nothing of using what they have to cement their career.
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# ? Mar 18, 2018 21:32 |
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:if we're not counting Monty Python stuff Gilliam only has two good movies anyway Time Bandits, Brazil, Munchausen, Fisher King, 12 Monkeys, and Fear/Loathing is a pretty wild hot streak.
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# ? Mar 18, 2018 21:41 |
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Time Bandits, Brazil, Munchausen, Fisher King, 12 Monkeys, and Fear/Loathing is a pretty wild hot streak. i've really only ever liked the first two. Fisher King is okay i guess.
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# ? Mar 18, 2018 22:04 |
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Baron Munchausen is terrible.
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# ? Mar 18, 2018 22:06 |
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Ah, I see we've arrived at the "unpopular opinions I've always wanted to get off my chest" portion of his flogging.
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# ? Mar 18, 2018 22:15 |
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Timeless Appeal posted:Weinstein basically set himself as a blowjob troll blocking off certain careers if you didn't pay him a toll. -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Mar 18, 2018 |
# ? Mar 18, 2018 23:11 |
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Also like, even having consensual sex with people who you have professional power over with the understanding that you will give them professional advancement is somewhere between 'wildly unethical and unprofessional' and 'straight up illegal' depending on where you are.
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# ? Mar 19, 2018 01:06 |
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# ? Mar 28, 2024 22:57 |
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Are millennials killing the casting couch industry??
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# ? Mar 19, 2018 01:31 |