|
Odddzy posted:Welcome to a position that will make you infamous in the gym when you go against guys that never wanted to learn leglocks. The more that we see high level nogi, the more that leg locks (heel hooks, mostly) are going to be taken more seriously. Can you imagine a club that thought Mount was some bullshit position? Soon enough people are going to by hook or by crook learn how to defend dominant leg positions, just like they defend dominant traditional positions.
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 06:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 14:45 |
|
|
Drewjitsu posted:Can you imagine a club that thought Mount was some bullshit position? Soon enough people are going to by hook or by crook learn how to defend dominant leg positions, just like they defend dominant traditional positions. I think you see that fairly actively now. Even if people aren't learning leg locks, they're learning how to avoid leg entanglements.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 06:23
|
|
|
I train at a small MMA gym, but nearby there’s a BJJ-only gym that we’re close friends/unofficially affiliated with. They have better BJJ than us in most respects, but they’ve only recently started relaxing their leg-attack rules among blue and purple belts. Whenever I visit I get so many taps from the saddle/sankaku, it’s absurd. I really have no business beating most of these people.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 06:45
|
|
|
Our club is always a mixed bag of what we "teach," but the we as a whole have been doing way more leg fighting in the last year, too. Two of the better guys in the club are excellent leglockers with a good attitude toward catch and release. They mix those attacks fluidly into their game otherwise. So even if very few other people in the club have good offensive ability with leg fighting, I'm seeing lots of people develop good defense and instincts because anyone who is competent enough at grappling to be put into those positions gets put into them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 14:16
|
|
|
Unity in NYC teaches heelhooks to white belts which I always thought was both funny and horrifying. Murilo Santana is a great coach but man that must be stressful
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 17:19
|
|
|
There was this weekly no-gi open mat run by a very well respected local judo/MMA guy in my town. I got there early one day and there was these three guys already there taking turns rolling and it was 100% intensity nothing but sloppy toeholds and heel hooks. These guys had no understanding of position grappling, didn't even know the names of the positions like guard, side control, etc. They were training in someone's shed and had driven like 3 hours to attend.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 17:39
|
|
|
It's interesting working leg locks against people with little familiarity with leg locks. Either they tap super early because they think their knee is going to explode from you touching their foot or they tap too late because they don't understand when they are in danger. I usually don't focus on leg locks when I'm rolling with blue belts new to the advanced no gi class. I train at the epicenter of leg locking, but I've been working a lot more on kimuras recently. Most of my subs are heelhooks or arm triangles and I want to work on expanding my game.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 18:30
|
|
|
My gym is what I would call "leg lock-curious". We spent all of last month on them, and it was simultaneously interesting and frustrating to get kicked back to "clueless beginner" level. Getting into a spirited battle with a trusted training partner while you're both exploring new territory is a really cool feeling. The only downside is that I'm probably gonna DQ myself by accident at a tournament tomorrow because now I see toeholds everywhere.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 23:47
|
|
|
Yuns posted:It's interesting working leg locks against people with little familiarity with leg locks. Either they tap super early because they think their knee is going to explode from you touching their foot or they tap too late because they don't understand when they are in danger. I usually don't focus on leg locks when I'm rolling with blue belts new to the advanced no gi class. As someone who wants to walk when they're 40, I just tap pretty early to heel hooks, because why risk catastrophic injury? The only heel hook I go for is the one out of the saddle->crisscross (or gunslinger?)->gentle inside heel hook, as slow as possible. I'm never going to the mundials, and I'm probably done competing, so  let's just learn some crazy leglock positions.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2018 06:34
|
|
|
Drewjitsu posted:As someone who wants to walk when they're 40, I just tap pretty early to heel hooks, because why risk catastrophic injury? The only heel hook I go for is the one out of the saddle->crisscross (or gunslinger?)->gentle inside heel hook, as slow as possible. The people who I leg fight with know that they can just tell me that they think they have a heel hook properly locked, and I'll say "ok" and then we reset. It has actually done my defense some good because the effort goes into prevention and hand fighting instead. I've never hipped into a heel hook except in a demo - I just get the grip secure and then let them go and keep rolling if my partner struggles, which lets me practice following up when an opponent escapes. Straight ankle locks on the other hand 
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2018 15:47
|
|
|
CommonShore posted:The people who I leg fight with know that they can just tell me that they think they have a heel hook properly locked, and I'll say "ok" and then we reset. It has actually done my defense some good because the effort goes into prevention and hand fighting instead. I've never hipped into a heel hook except in a demo - I just get the grip secure and then let them go and keep rolling if my partner struggles, which lets me practice following up when an opponent escapes. I was rolling with a dude and got saddle->crisscross->inside heel hook. USUALLY, people give it up at this point, the moment that the hands get linked and a just start to put pressure on the lock. Not this guy. So I increase the pressure a bit and start to tighten up the heel hook. Still nothing. At this point I ask him if he's okay: 'well there's a little tingling in my ankle, but nothing bad.' I just let it go at this point. He then wants to reset the position and work the heel hook again. 'we'll be careful and I'll tap when it's on' he says. So we slowly put the lock on, and I'm continuing to put pressure on the lock. Literally every other person I've ever heel hooked would have tapped at this point, but not this guy. At this point, instead of continuing on, I just let it go a second time. It was seriously a  Moment.Maybe my mechanics are really bad? And that everyone else is just being very careful? But I don't really want to know how good my heel hooks can be as someone's knee explodes. Also, I was the same way regarding straight ankle locks until I hosed someone's foot up on a straight ankle lock. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2018 19:20
|
|
|
Just do straight ankle locks in training. Basically any position you can do a heel hook you can also do a straight ankle lock, which is harder to finish and easier for the person being subbed to tell when they're in trouble, so it'll make you better at both and at maintaining leg control in addition to being safer. We don't ever do heel hooks in sparring at my club, and we're a sambo club that very much focuses on leg locks and always has.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2018 19:27
|
|
|
My leg lock knowledge and defense are pretty solid so I can let someone get pretty deep in leg locks and still defend and escape or counter. I have to be able to do so rolling against the elite level leg lockers we have in class. Some times we get new students who are less skilled and they expect me to tap to a leg lock immediately but for some of them their mechanics are so bad I can sit in their heel hook all day. Against the elite guys the second they have a solid grip you absolutely know. When Odddzy visited us we went over the difference in mechanics between a good and bad heel hook and I think feeling the difference on both sides is critical to understanding it. Make sure you have no slack in your grip before you attempt to finish. If you choose to use a conventional heel hook grip make sure you use your free hand to really pull those toes into you so there is no movement or slippage possible with the forefoot. As you slip the blade of your wrist under the heel make sure your hands come up your chest to take out even more slack. Make sure you are controlling the knee and hip with your legs. I like to tuck the knee of the trapped leg against my opposite hip. A key microdefense I use against heel hooks depends on slight rotation of the knee that relieves pressure. Don't permit this. Come up onto your shoulder and bridge hard turning his toes back into his butt but not rotating. If you do it right, your opponent will feel it badly in his foot the second you connect your hands before you even start to put real pressure on. The idea that a heel hook is painless is b.s. A great heel hook is brutal. Yuns fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Mar 17, 2018 |
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2018 19:42
|
|
|
Good to know. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2018 20:14
|
|
|
A simple test is did your opponent flinch the second you connected your hands or start to bridge his hips up to relieve pressure? If so, good job.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2018 20:24
|
|
|
Yuns posted:My leg lock knowledge and defense are pretty solid so I can let someone get pretty deep in leg locks and still defend and escape or counter. I have to be able to do so rolling against the elite level leg lockers we have in class. Some times we get new students who are less skilled and they expect me to tap to a leg lock immediately but for some of them their mechanics are so bad I can sit in their heel hook all day. Against the elite guys the second they have a solid grip you absolutely know. When Odddzy visited us we went over the difference in mechanics between a good and bad heel hook and I think feeling the difference on both sides is critical to understanding it. Mechafunkzilla posted:Just do straight ankle locks in training. Basically any position you can do a heel hook you can also do a straight ankle lock, which is harder to finish and easier for the person being subbed to tell when they're in trouble, so it'll make you better at both and at maintaining leg control in addition to being safer. I learned both of these things when I did the Imanari seminar. Every drill was ankle locks, but we did a few heel hook techniques from the same positions. He demoed one on me, and just his grip made it feel as if there was a knife going under my knee cap. I still don't gently caress around with them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2018 21:05
|
|
|
Tournament update: feet never entered the equation, I just lost the normal way a bunch (round-robin). Amusingly, the guy who won my bracket and subbed everyone but me DQed himself in our match by picking me up from side control and "slamming" me two or three inches. I didn't even notice until the ref stopped the match because it felt nicer than being crushed, but rules are rules! Nestharken fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Mar 17, 2018 |
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2018 21:43
|
|
|
Yuns posted:Make sure you are controlling the knee and hip with your legs. I like to tuck the knee of the trapped leg against my opposite hip. Come up onto your shoulder and bridge hard turning his toes back into his butt but not rotating. If you do it right, your opponent will feel it badly in his foot the second you connect your hands before you even start to put real pressure on. One of the brown belts in my gym was attempting to teach heel hooks completely wrong and I just sat there being mad.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2018 21:48
|
|
|
CommonShore posted:I learned both of these things when I did the Imanari seminar. Every drill was ankle locks, but we did a few heel hook techniques from the same positions. He demoed one on me, and just his grip made it feel as if there was a knife going under my knee cap. My secret's been uncovered: I am actually Masakazu Imanari.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2018 22:48
|
|
|
JaySB posted:One of the brown belts in my gym was attempting to teach heel hooks completely wrong and I just sat there being mad. Does Craig Jones in his leg attacks from down under teach correct heel hooks in your opinion? I'm using his material pretty much 100% for my new leg attack game, and I want to make sure that it's legit.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2018 23:04
|
|
|
Drewjitsu posted:Does Craig Jones in his leg attacks from down under teach correct heel hooks in your opinion? I'm using his material pretty much 100% for my new leg attack game, and I want to make sure that it's legit. Haven't seen it, but lol come on
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2018 23:09
|
|
|
Notorious fraud and faker Craig Jones
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2018 23:11
|
|
|
I mean, he is from Australia. I heard they were all criminals.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2018 23:26
|
|
|
how many world champions would craig jones have to beat by heelhook before you considered his technique legitimate
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2018 01:05
|
|
|
Drewjitsu posted:Does Craig Jones in his leg attacks from down under teach correct heel hooks in your opinion? I'm using his material pretty much 100% for my new leg attack game, and I want to make sure that it's legit.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2018 01:32
|
|
|
Yuns posted:Craig's leg lock stuff is one of the few leg lock tutorials that I recommend. I haven't seen it but the guys in my gym who have say it's good. I don't understand them at all. Thank god Im a white belt and dont have to deal with this poo poo
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2018 02:53
|
|
|
I didn't do an NCAA wrestling thread this year because nobody else seemed interested but this scramble from the 174 final tonight owned bones. https://twitter.com/FloWrestling/status/975193434402316288
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2018 03:16
|
|
|
02-6611-0142-1 posted:how many world champions would craig jones have to beat by heelhook before you considered his technique legitimate Not sure, I'm not trashing craig jones at all - I think that his stuff is really good! It's just good to get confirmation from other people who have also enjoyed success using his stuff. Yuns posted:Craig's leg lock stuff is one of the few leg lock tutorials that I recommend. I haven't seen it but the guys in my gym who have say it's good.  EDIT: spb posted:I don't understand them at all. Thank god Im a white belt and dont have to deal with this poo poo Does your gym not even allow straight anklelocks for white belts? Boo. Legit Businessman fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Mar 18, 2018 |
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2018 19:01
|
|
|
I've been playing around with variations of the arm triangle from bottom half lately and have been having pretty good results. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv-HX6bhyhw
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2018 01:44
|
|
|
What are some good counters when you get single legged and they hold your leg up high? I'm trying to reign in my scissor takedowns for safety reasons.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2018 10:43
|
|
|
02-6611-0142-1 posted:What are some good counters when you get single legged and they hold your leg up high? I'm trying to reign in my scissor takedowns for safety reasons. Backflip. https://youtu.be/UiNvFNe6LA4 In all seriousness you could try to get a Sumi Gaeshi off before that happens. Here in Korea I'm able to get a good wizard off on people but I think thats due to their lack of experience but thats also a good counter to that position being set up from the start.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2018 11:24
|
|
|
Unfunny Poster posted:Backflip. Not sure many people outside Korea have experience with getting wizards off on them either. It's "whizzer"
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2018 11:41
|
|
|
Freudian slippers posted:Not sure many people outside Korea have experience with getting wizards off on them either. Don’t listen to this loser, use mana drain and interrupt their spellcasting with melee attacks
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2018 14:53
|
|
|
Freudian slippers posted:Not sure many people outside Korea have experience with getting wizards off on them either. Typo thanks to posting on the phone. Sue me.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2018 16:18
|
|
|
02-6611-0142-1 posted:What are some good counters when you get single legged and they hold your leg up high? I'm trying to reign in my scissor takedowns for safety reasons. as Unfunny Poster notes the sumi (or as I prefer hikkikomi :judodork:) gaeshi works if you can get in before your leg gets too elevated. Stuff the head, pivot your hips square, and roll them over with a butterfly hook. It's a super legit technique. If they get your foot up onto their shoulder or something you're pretty much asking the equivalent of "how do I get out of an armbar when my arm is extended." Sometimes I can spin my posting foot under into ashi. Other times I can bounce around on one foot and hand fight to get my leg free, but most of that stuff only works against people who don't know how to time a foot sweep. You're generally better off accepting the takedown and getting in front of the next positional fight.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2018 16:42
|
|
|
02-6611-0142-1 posted:What are some good counters when you get single legged and they hold your leg up high? I'm trying to reign in my scissor takedowns for safety reasons. Clinch them, get your hips closer to them, and sprawl your leg out.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2018 18:57
|
|
|
CommonShore posted:If they get your foot up onto their shoulder or something you're pretty much asking the equivalent of "how do I get out of an armbar when my arm is extended." Sometimes I can spin my posting foot under into ashi. Other times I can bounce around on one foot and hand fight to get my leg free, but most of that stuff only works against people who don't know how to time a foot sweep. You're generally better off accepting the takedown and getting in front of the next positional fight. I'm kinda building a game around baiting the single leg on my preferred side. If I can keep the head framed away I've got some front headlock style takedowns, if I can get my weight on top of them I've got rolling kimuras on both sides (depending on head position), if they're starting to tip me over I've got sumi gaeshi (sometimes with a guillotine), and if they take the leg high the scissor takedown is great, but I've begrudgingly conceded that the risk of injury is too high. When the leg is low I feel very confident defending and hopping around like an idiot. Mechafunkzilla posted:Clinch them, get your hips closer to them, and sprawl your leg out. I'll have a play around with this, thanks.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2018 21:51
|
|
|
There's also the victor roll into leglock stuff if you don't want to do a scissors. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfBRtqTCAUs
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2018 00:27
|
|
|
If in the chance I'm in that spot I just try to grab tye neck/lapel and pull guard. It's a much better spot that letting them dictate how they take you down and their position at the end. Just make sure your balls don't get knee'd on accident.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2018 01:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 14:45 |
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKSCEeA1UnM Had no idea what a sumi gaeshi was, looked it up, and found this video. I hope it helps someone else out. I definitely have some things I want to try when I go back to the gym.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2018 02:11
|
|