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Acebuckeye13 posted:IIRC TTW is also in a slightly more legally grey situation in that the VA files could be used in New Vegas with zero modification. By contrast for Fallout 4 they'd have to be converted into a new file format, which may have been enough to tip the legal scales in Bethesda's eyes. I think TTW is legally defensible because it's not really a port. You're playing games you already own through a different client.
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Mar 19, 2018 13:42
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:that's... completely and utterly insane of Bethesda and they really loving need new lawyers who can write less wonky contracts I'm not a IP/copyright lawyer, but as far as I know it is standard for the licence agreement for things like VA, music, etc, to specify exactly what it can be used for. TheFlyingLlama posted:tale of Two Wastelands is technically illegal However Bethesda's lawyers freak out at the very idea of cross-game porting due to things like various licence agreements. Take a random song that Bethesda licenced for use in FO3. If a modder ports that song over to FO4 and Bethesda were to approve that, then does that open up the door for Bethesda having to pay fines or getting sued by whoever owns that song? After all they facilitated that song being used outside licenced scope by releasing the toolset. Again I'm not a lawyer, so it's not like I know what the answer to that question is. But I do feel confident in saying that it's the sort of question that Bethesda's legal department doesn't want to think about. Hence Bethesda going "NO!" whenever modders ask them if porting content between games is okay. Raygereio fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Mar 19, 2018 |
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Mar 19, 2018 14:21
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Raygereio posted:The question isn't whether or not Bethesda retained the rights to use the VA work for FO3, but whether or not the VA work that was originally licenced for FO3 can be used in FO4. Also a good voice acting contract will give the individual actor or their talent agency some level of ownership over the clips so they can be used in demo reels and the like. You wouldn't want to just give up all the rights in perpetuity to the developer because they could use it for a project that you might not want your voice work associated with.
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Mar 19, 2018 14:41
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I imagine VA is also a sensitive situation where you might not want to give a giant multifranchise company free reign to mix and splice your work however they wish. See: the joke about the road runner VA being paid for one "meep", but a real concern. "Oh wow, the next fallout game will have The Master! And he's voiced by Liam Neeson, Michael Dorn, and Debra Wilson!" E: What the guy above me said. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Mar 19, 2018 |
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Mar 19, 2018 14:50
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Might be they're terrified of the VA union picking up on the mod considering how badly Bethesda hosed around with the voice actors and NDAs for fallout 4.
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Mar 19, 2018 15:15
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Raygereio posted:TTW is perfectly legal for us modders and mod users. Converting FO3/F:NV files for use in FO4 is also perfectly legal and fine. As long you don't distribute any of those files there isn't anything Bethesda or anyone else can do to stop you. Okay, I'm not a lawyer either, but the Fallout GECK EULA is pretty clear that no mods created with it can infringe on third parties rights, and depending on the contract Bethesda signed with the VAs, transferring vocal work from one game to another might be infringement. I doubt it would be criminal infringement, but I'm not sure it would need to be to still be a violation of the EULA. I agree with you that it looks to be as much Bethesda not wanting to ask these questions, but even on a personal level I'm not sure I'd want those questions to go to a court either
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Mar 20, 2018 01:11
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Keep in mind EULA's are still pretty hard to defend in court save for a couple of areas.
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Mar 20, 2018 02:38
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Neurolimal posted:Keep in mind EULA's are still pretty hard to defend in court save for a couple of areas. a lot of ultra-onerous boilerplate businesses put in contracts is. thank god for that. the one i most commonly see is the agreement in sales contract that the purchaser relied in no way on anything the seller said and only on their own inquiries. courts basically ignore that whenever they need to. aside from the obvious policy problem with such clauses being forced by inequality of bargaining power, there's also a major logical issue in relying on such a clause where signing a contract stating that to be the case is itself the product of misleading representations.
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Mar 20, 2018 05:24
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Just finished up with Yes Man at level 36 mostly with Veronica and EDE at my side. Used my mouth to negotiate peace between the Legion and then the NCR. I enjoyed it thoroughly but was disappointed that the game just ends after that. I was hoping to deal with whatever consequences I had brought on. So now I'm going back to the save before I go to Hoover Dam and am just doing stuff with Cass. Fun, though.
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Mar 23, 2018 17:58
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It's really disappointing that they didn't at least make an FO3-style post-game DLC, but I guess all the endings are wildly different enough that it'd be a massive pain to make 
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Mar 23, 2018 18:03
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I like that there is an ending, and I miss the era of games being over once you beat the main quest
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Mar 23, 2018 18:06
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Danaru posted:It's really disappointing that they didn't at least make an FO3-style post-game DLC, but I guess all the endings are wildly different enough that it'd be a massive pain to make There's some post-ending dialogue that you get if you use a mod to allow play beyond Hoover Dam, so it was definitely in the cards. It's just a huge undertaking that they simply didn't have time for on such a rushed development. I think development was only something like 18 months. It's a testament to Obsidian's talents that the game ended up so good.
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Mar 23, 2018 19:47
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They didn’t have time to flesh out the legion quests, I’m sure the postgame content was intended but abandoned early given the dev schedule they had to work with.
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Mar 23, 2018 20:55
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Rope kid's talked before about some of the planned stuff, like for a Legion victory the memorial in Boulder City would get torn down, and they were planning on new denominations of currency with Courier-themed iconography. I'm pretty sure Yes Man's mention of getting upgrades at the end was related to something post-game as well
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Mar 23, 2018 21:35
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I'm happy there's no post game because there is something to be said for ambition overstepping ability. Look no further than Bethesda.
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Mar 23, 2018 21:39
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It would have been nice if some of the Arizona talk was represented visually in-game; for example Nelson could have been a larger town seized and controlled by the Legion, an NCR mission could have involved clearing the town of Legion with the promise of NCR coming in after to claim the town and keep it running. You clear the legion, a few days later the NCR aren't there and the town's been destroyed by raiders because supply issues/a corrupt general kept supplies and troops from being stationed there (or it was just ruled as not being important enough to spare resources for).
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Mar 23, 2018 22:47
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Why the gently caress did I not know Veronica can get a perk after beating Dead Money and that you can tell her Elijah is dead?
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Mar 25, 2018 02:24
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chitoryu12 posted:Why the gently caress did I not know Veronica can get a perk after beating Dead Money and that you can tell her Elijah is dead? Wait you can? I remember it being a big annoyance that there was no way to tell Veronica about Elijah or Christine. Did they add that later or did I just miss it?
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Mar 25, 2018 02:28
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Danaru posted:Wait you can? I remember it being a big annoyance that there was no way to tell Veronica about Elijah or Christine. Did they add that later or did I just miss it? You have to exhaust all the dialogue about Elijah and then you have the option to give her the "Elijah's Last Words" holotape. Either you or she gets a perk, based on whether or not she gets the holotape.
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Mar 25, 2018 02:35
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The perk increases her efficiency with melee weapons, and not unarmed weapons like she specialises in 
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Mar 25, 2018 02:58
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2house2fly posted:The perk increases her efficiency with melee weapons, and not unarmed weapons like she specialises in But I still gave the tape to her every time because I am not a literal fairy-tale monster. Do any of the key mods fix that?
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Mar 25, 2018 03:02
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the perk for not giving her the tape is really good too (50% more crit damage for melee weapons), which makes it especially annoying that it gives her the wrong efficiency.
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Mar 25, 2018 03:30
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Arcsquad12 posted:Might be they're terrified of the VA union picking up on the mod considering how badly Bethesda hosed around with the voice actors and NDAs for fallout 4. I haven't heard this story.
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Mar 25, 2018 03:33
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funmanguy posted:I haven't heard this story. The guy who voiced Kellogg was held to an NDA so strict he didn't even know what game he was recording for until a fan at a convention told him he loved his work in fallout 4.
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Mar 25, 2018 03:38
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Danaru posted:Wait you can? I remember it being a big annoyance that there was no way to tell Veronica about Elijah or Christine. Did they add that later or did I just miss it? After you complete Dead Money, the terminal in the bunker unlocks and you can download a holotape from it. You can bring it to Veronica and you now have a dialogue option for "I found Elijah" where you reveal to her that he's dead and have the choice of whether or not to give her the tape. I never knew this was even possible, since I heard so much about how the DLC has no way to affect the vanilla game due to how everything was coded.
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Mar 25, 2018 04:04
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I have a feeling it was possible due to Elijah possibly being intended to be in the base game before they spun it off into the DLC. Then again the base game teased DLC that was stretched out for nearly a year, so that might also just be up to long term planning by Obsidian.
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Mar 25, 2018 04:16
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Arcsquad12 posted:I have a feeling it was possible due to Elijah possibly being intended to be in the base game before they spun it off into the DLC. Then again the base game teased DLC that was stretched out for nearly a year, so that might also just be up to long term planning by Obsidian.  Also IIRC Veronica had a few "dummy" dialogue options that were filled in by Dead Money, which is how they did it in that particular case. Not sure why they didn't do it for other characters, being able to taunt Caesar with the continued existence of Joshua Graham would be great.
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Mar 25, 2018 04:33
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Bread Pudding posted:One of the questions from Doc Mitchell's psychological test references all four DLCs, which is so very Obsidian. I'm guessing the dummy dialogue thing was a happy revelation when they were getting rid of unfinished Elijah stuff, and that was discovered late in development (what with Dead Money being the first DLC developed). There's a couple of references to most of the DLC in the base game, but I imagine Veronica's elijah dialogue was the only voiced interaction finished. Man, imagine how much better NV would have been with a couple more months. At least Bethesda didn't pull a Lucasarts "lmao just kidding you dont have 5 more months, we're releasing it now" move.
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Mar 25, 2018 04:37
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Bread Pudding posted:Also IIRC Veronica had a few "dummy" dialogue options that were filled in by Dead Money, which is how they did it in that particular case. Not sure why they didn't do it for other characters, being able to taunt Caesar with the continued existence of Joshua Graham would be great. Voice actor availability.
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Mar 25, 2018 04:37
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Kind of annoying since you can certainly do it the other way, like killing Caesar and then telling Joshua about it. Or killing House and then telling Dr. 0 about it (he is happy).
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Mar 25, 2018 04:39
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chitoryu12 posted:I never knew this was even possible, since I heard so much about how the DLC has no way to affect the vanilla game due to how everything was coded. Some of that dialogue was in the game at release, though Obsidian hid it by making it refer to some ghoul instead of Elijah. They always planned to have Veronica react to finding Elijah (dunno if they always planned Dead Money as it was). Unfortunately, it's impossible to ask Veronica about Christine 
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Mar 25, 2018 09:35
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Bread Pudding posted:One of the questions from Doc Mitchell's psychological test references all four DLCs, which is so very Obsidian. Wait, what? which question?
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Mar 25, 2018 11:08
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chitoryu12 posted:I never knew this was even possible, since I heard so much about how the DLC has no way to affect the vanilla game due to how everything was coded. every time i play Old World Blues i lol enormously at the throwaway "we've conditioned you so you can't tell anyone about this place!!!!" line from the brains like, yes, how convenient
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Mar 25, 2018 12:23
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The line after the big huge introduction dump where Klein says something like "okay, now that introductions are over, we can all move again!" Referencing how everyone freezes during conversations kills me too God drat old world blues is the best
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Mar 25, 2018 12:32
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Wait, what? which question? I don't think any of them do actually. The Rorschach tests have answers that could be foreshadowing, like you can say one looks like "space age technology" and another looks like "a mushroom cloud"
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Mar 25, 2018 12:50
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chitoryu12 posted:I never knew this was even possible, since I heard so much about how the DLC has no way to affect the vanilla game due to how everything was coded. But this was in the twilight years of the 7th console generation and the game ran face first into the limited memory of the consoles (PS3 in particular). Getting the base game to work at all was probably a frustrating task and even then they had to remove NPCs and other things via patching because the memory footprint still got too large. Having the DLCs add things to the gameworld would have been a nightmare of balancing memory usage and testing. That said, adding new dialogue shouldn't have been a technical issue. If mentioning Christine to Veronica ever was on the drawing board, it was probably axed due to VA budget concerns and/or Day's availability. Raygereio fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Mar 25, 2018 |
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Mar 25, 2018 12:57
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IIRC there were some problems with the plugins being loaded out of order on consoles.
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Mar 25, 2018 13:19
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IIRC there's an issue with Bethesda's modular engine where items have dynamic itemID's depending on where in the load order they are placed, making it difficult for other ESP's to reference them. Cant remember if variables have the same problem, if not that might be how the holotape works.
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Mar 25, 2018 13:28
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Wait, what? which question?  Personal interpretation, so this might just be ~my headcanon~, but the image is the Lucky 38 (and so represents the base game) and the answers are, in order, Joshua Graham, Elijah, The Divide and the Courier's brain (or the Think Tank), with the last one admittedly being a bit of a stretch.
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Mar 25, 2018 14:20
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Uh *shuffles back out of the thread*
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Mar 25, 2018 14:27
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