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You know I'm way late to they party but I want to say I find this utterly delightful, totally Tom, and thank all those responsible for exposing me to it. Yes, thank you for exposing me to Tom's cock (story). Seriously if this shocked you you really don't know Tom Baker and you didn't have a dick as a teenager. Not that I jerked it in company. But one can imagine it would have been just like this. I mean it captures the mentality of that age and sex perfectly. IMHO.
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# ? Mar 27, 2018 10:12 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 15:08 |
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King Plum the Nth posted:You know I'm way late to they party I don't think the party ever ends. (I do think it should be called the Rosie Ball.)
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# ? Mar 27, 2018 10:56 |
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I'm sure some of this is just wishful thinking, but at the very least, it seems likely that they'll find the last episode of Web of Fear eventually: http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/doctor-who/news/a853310/doctor-who-missing-episodes-recovery-web-of-fear-enemy-world-philip-morris/
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# ? Mar 27, 2018 17:08 |
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Remember that bizarre conspiracy theory that Morris was sitting on top of a giant pile of extra missing episodes he was refusing to return until Moffat was gone? Well Moffat is gone, so where are the missing episodes?
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# ? Mar 27, 2018 21:54 |
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Jerusalem posted:Remember that bizarre conspiracy theory that Morris was sitting on top of a giant pile of extra missing episodes he was refusing to return until Moffat was gone? Once Chibnall's first episode airs and Morris is sure Moffat actually is gone, I'll finally get to see "The Highlanders."
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# ? Mar 27, 2018 22:13 |
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On the Enemy of the World special features, when Morris is being interviewed can you hear Ian Levine banging on the wall outside the building and sobbing, or have they removed that in post?
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# ? Mar 27, 2018 22:47 |
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The Eaters of Light is remarkable for one reason: it was written Rona Munro. Why is that remarkable? Because Munro also wrote Survival, which was the last ever episode of the classic run of Doctor Who. This makes her, to date, the only writer to have worked on television episodes of the classic series AND the revival (other classic series writers like Terrance Dicks have written revival era content in other media, and several "wilderness years" writers came on to work on the revival). The story itself is... good. It's a standalone episode of Who, apart from a very brief section at the end it could slot anywhere into this season or indeed any other season with only a few cosmetic changes. But there's nothing particularly memorable about it. Nothing stands out or made me go,"Wow! This one will stick with me for a long time!" like Oxygen or Pilot or, for entirely different reasons, The Pyramid at the End of the World and The Lie of the Land did. Yeah there are some cool moments, and some really neat themes that get discussed but not in any way that hasn't been addressed in other episodes before and probably will be again later. The monster is interesting enough, the setting is too, the characters work even if they're a trifle flat. Much like the previous episode, it's just a perfectly serviceable and watchable episode of the show. Unlike the previous episode, it didn't immediately follow an unbelievably lovely episode which made it seem stronger by comparison. As a result, I feel like this is the episode that people will have trouble immediately recalling when thinking of what episodes were in season 10. Which, again, makes it seem worse than it is. Because it's not bad, but it's also not really all that memorable even if it is just as good as the previous episode. There are some pretty landscape shots though! There are a couple of bookend pieces of a small Scottish girl in the present day who insists she can hear music in the hills, where a stone bears a marking that looks like the TARDIS, but despite the "reveal" the second one gives this actually has little bearing on the story nor tells us anything we didn't already know from watching the episode. In the past, the Doctor brings Bill and Nardole (in his dressing gown) back to 2nd Century Scotland in a fit of pique, after Bill has insisted that she knows more about the "lost Legion" than he does. In order to prove he is right (and Bill equally believes it will prove her right) they have come to this point in time to find them. Bill, convinced from her history paper/research that they would have followed a nearby river to guide them out of "Caledonia", sets off in one direction while the Doctor takes Nardole in the other to find what he is convinced will be a battle site where the remains of the Legion will be found. It turns out, of course, that they're both right. The basic story is pretty straightforward: Romans invaded Britannia, the local adults were wiped out resisting, and the next generation unleashed a monster hoping it and the Romans would destroy each other but everything went horribly wrong. The two put aside their differences to fight the monster together, learning a valuable lesson in the process and finding a common humanity. Nothing particularly groundbreaking or spectacular, but the real strength of the story comes in the moments and the themes which brace up the story and make it better than it might have been. It's still not groundbreaking or memorable, but it's extremely competently done and pushes a rather lovely ethos, as well as providing the opportunity to explore some interesting contrasts. Rona Munro posted:Particularly Karra and Ace, there were whole amazing scenes between them and for me, that was supposed to be my lesbian subtext – and you can't see it! When Munro wrote Survival, before she found out about but the costuming which completely went against her intended look, she'd intended - as soon above - a lesbian subtext between Ace and the character Karra, . Not an exploitative, titillating "get the dads in from the shed" type of thing but something a little more nuanced. The producer of the show was gay and despite Ronald Reagan's best efforts there was a growing acceptance of homosexuality as not being a cruel sadistic sin perpetuated by Satan, but it was still considered a taboo subject in a lot of television, particularly for a show aimed at a family audience like Doctor Who. Times have certainly changed since then and absolutely for the better, and Munro gets to express this in outright text in this story. When Bill encounters a Roman soldier who dies to restore his honor while rescuing her, she finds refuge with the last surviving members of the legion, one of whom has a clear physical attraction for her. Bill quickly explains as best she can that she's homosexual, wondering how a 2nd Century Roman is going to react to such a thing. He's non-plussed, she only likes girls just like another member of the Legion only likes boys? Well that's fine, that's perfectly okay! There's even a wonderful little dig when he explains he is bisexual and if anything pities her for being so close-minded. Now I'm sure many would argue that Roman's sense of sexuality wasn't quite that straightforward, being tied up more with the notions of power/control than anything else etc... but as a moment it works wonderfully. Cultures change over time, and so do mindsets regarding all manner of things. Nudity, sexuality, morality etc, they ebb and flow with the passage of time. But more to the point, Rona Munro roughly 30 years ago had to be careful to keep the lesbian stuff subtext to avoid offending anybody. In 2017 she can just openly have the characters be homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual etc and it doesn't matter (because it doesn't matter!). As Bill and the surviving Romans hide away in a cave beneath the ground, the Doctor and Nardole are taken prisoner and in old-school Who fashion escape via use of a nearby fire and some popcorn Nardole had in his dressing gown. The Doctor discovers a door that acts as a portal to another dimension filled with creatures that eat light, one of which had escaped before his arrival and wiped out the Legion. Returning after only a few seconds, he discovers he's been gone for 2 days (during which time Nardole has ingratiated himself with the local Picts, which will have implications in a couple of episodes) and lays out the basic threat of the monster. It seems the cairn was built by the Picts to channel and contain the doorway, which opens periodically at which point a chosen Guardian must enter and do battle with the beast within to gain the tribe safety for the next few years/decades. However the arrival of the Romans threw everything out of whack, and when all the adult warriors were wiped out by the Legion, the oldest surviving girl became the new Guardian. Rather than enter the doorway and battle the beast, she let it escape, thinking it and the Romans would kill each other and solve her problems. Instead the Legion was wiped out but the Eater only badly injured, and it has been growing stronger by eating the light of every day. The Doctor figures out that with enough time, more will be able to escape and they will devour the population of earth and then travel to the sun and eat it too, then all the stars in the sky. Here we see another recurring issue with the revival: a threat can never be local, it always has to be world or universe ending. But as I said, the story is secondary in importance. Where it works best isn't in this galactic/universal threat but in the guilt of Kar, who released the Eater, and in her rage and impotence towards the Romans. Where it works best is in Bill and the Romans' discussion of sexuality. Where it works best is when the two sides finally meet and confront and discover that when they can actually understand each other, they stop seeing each other as monsters. That moment in particular works really well. Bill's discovery of the TARDIS' telepathic translations is a wonderful character moment played for comedy ("No wonder everybody in space speaks English!" "It even does lip-synch!"), but also demonstrates her problem solving ability AND leads beautifully into that teacher/student relationship where Bill grasps the significance of language and takes the lead in bringing the two sides together as the Doctor watches with obvious pride. Yeah it doesn't quite stand up to the actual history of the world where a shared language hasn't stopped people doing horrible things to each other. But there's something lovely to take from two groups of young adults (barely) who see the opposite side as some alien "Other" only to have the barriers between them broken down and realize that they're all basically just a bunch of traumatized kids trying to figure out what to do next. The presence of an actual alien Other to hate and fight helps of course, but I'll always remember this scene more for Kar's wonderful and brutal takedown of the Romans and then her slow realization that they're not a gestalt entity but a collection of individuals. Just as the Romans realize the Picts are people too, and not a horde of filthy barbarians. Just as an aside, Kar's putdown of the Romans is actually taken from a quote attributed to a Caledonian Chieftain named Calgacus, supposedly transcribed by the historian Tacitus though some say he just made it up for an excuse to have a go at the Romans himself. Kar posted:Let me tell you about the Romans. They are the robbers of this world. When they've thieved everything on land, they'll rob the sea. If their enemies are rich, they'll take all they have. If their enemies are poor, they'll make slaves of them. Their work is robbery, slaughter, plunder. They do this work and they call it Empire. They make deserts and they call it peace. The Doctor develops a pretty vague plan that feels slightly rushed in its execution, as they lure the creature back to the cairn and direct it back into the doorway, all so he can make a big heroic sacrifice that used to be a staple of the RTD/Tennant years. He intends to enter the doorway and stand as guardian for the rest of his lives, until the sun goes out and the creatures are no longer a threat to the Earth. Bill is having none of that of course, but he insists that as both the longest lived person present (who can also regenerate!) as well as the adult in the room it is his responsibility. Kar disagrees, she is the one who let the creature out, it is her responsibility to keep it in. The Romans, whether from a sense of duty, honor or just wanting to help their new friend, agree to enter and fight alongside her. Knocking the Doctor down, he is unable to stop them entering, playing music as they go, and the doors shut on them, to remain shut until they die in battle. That is where the second bookend comes in, to reveal that roughly 2000 years later they still fight and play their music, keeping the world safe. The Doctor is upset, naturally, but Bill reminds him he has other responsibilities, including guarding the Master's vault. They have another nice moment as both agree to having been wrong about the ultimate fate of the Lost Legion, and when Bill hears a snatch of music and comments that she shouldn't be able to hear it, he responds kindly that music is like that. That's basically the episode, full of nice moments and some interesting explorations of themes but not much of a story, nothing particularly standout about it and to be honest some pretty lovely make-up/costuming for the Picts. It was nice that Munro got to write another episode of the series, and she has a good ear for humor especially when it comes to Nardole. The creation of Chibnall's writers' room concept means we are unlikely to see anything more from her again anytime soon, which is a shame because I think given a chance she might be able to produce something that stood out a bit more than this. The absolute best part of the episode, though, feels like it was probably ghost-written by Moffat to tie in to the overall season arc. The writing really shines here, so whoever is responsible is to be commended. Missy is present in the TARDIS, much to Nardole and Bill's horror, though she is apparently unable to operate the console or open the doors. She has some great interaction with the Doctor as they again press the notion that she may actually be starting to be rehabilitated, but neither really knows if they can believe that (nor can the viewer, obviously!). So after an absolutely cracking start to the season followed by a massive dip in quality in the middle and then a return to perfectly serviceable but not particularly memorable episodes afterwards, I have to admit that my initial enthusiasm for season 10 was starting to waver once I reached this point. I was really thinking at the time that maybe I was ultimately going to feel let down by this season, and it was hard to be too excited for the next episode. Then that happened
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# ? Mar 28, 2018 10:43 |
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I'd completely forgotten this episode and I've already forgotten the last one you reviewed. Thought they were really good at the time, though.
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# ? Mar 28, 2018 11:12 |
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Holy poo poo. They give that much away? Thank god I never watch those. That Master reveal was loving amazing. I never saw it coming. Right up there with Derek Jacobi.
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# ? Mar 28, 2018 11:13 |
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The real missing episode question is what happens to all the ones in Mugabe's vault now that he's been ousted as presidente?Jerusalem posted:
The announcement that the original Cybermen were coming back popped up in my Facebook memories earlier this month given I'd shared that first photo of Capaldi being swarmed by them with the incredibly articulate comment "omgomgomg." I know the Beeb announces this kind of stuff before time to try and get ahead of set reports and leaks and whatever but as someone that tends not to go out of their way to look for that kind of stuff nowadays the buildup through World Enough and Time would have been extra brilliant without them specifically yelling that stuff on official channels. I mean, the episode was great and executed those elements fantastically anyway so it wasn't ruined by knowing that it was coming ahead of time, but just imagine. Box of Bunnies fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Mar 28, 2018 |
# ? Mar 28, 2018 11:44 |
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Doctor Zero posted:Holy poo poo. They give that much away? Thank god I never watch those. That Master reveal was loving amazing. I never saw it coming. Right up there with Derek Jacobi. Even knowing it was coming it was an amazing reveal, but yeah, being blindsided by it would have been incredible. I really liked The Eaters of Light, it may, in retrospect, be one of my favorites of the season, but I also agree it's easy to forget or overlook because it's ultimately nothing more (and nothing less) than just a solid bit of standalone Doctor Who.
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# ? Mar 28, 2018 11:52 |
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Doctor Zero posted:Holy poo poo. They give that much away? Thank god I never watch those. That Master reveal was loving amazing. I never saw it coming. Right up there with Derek Jacobi. I never read or look at any spoilers before a season starts (which makes it particularly galling when somebody openly posts one here and complains,"But EVERYBODY already knows!") but I always watch the "NEXT TIME" trailers for some good old fashioned hype for the next week. Right at the start of the season they revealed in the trailer at the end of Pilot that there would be Mondasian Cybermen, and that Simm was coming back. So yes it was an extremely exciting and pretty big holy gently caress moment, but that and the trailer at the end of The Eaters of Light did undercut the impact of his reveal in World Enough and Time. I can't imagine how amazing it would have been to have it come out of the blue like the Jacobi reveal largely did for me back in season 3. Though they also managed to blindside me in other ways in the next episode, happily.
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# ? Mar 28, 2018 18:24 |
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Eccleston is doing his first con!
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# ? Mar 28, 2018 22:01 |
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Somebody had better get a photo of 6, 7, 9, 12 and Bill all together in one photo, even if 9 is making this face:
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# ? Mar 28, 2018 22:06 |
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He's doing photos with a TARDIS, too. Maybe talking about it had made it easier for him to start engaging with the show again.
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# ? Mar 28, 2018 22:10 |
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More good news! The Season 9 soundtrack is coming out April 27th!
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# ? Mar 28, 2018 22:12 |
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Nardole with the blue paint on is the most adorable thing in the world.
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# ? Mar 28, 2018 22:55 |
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Jerusalem posted:I never read or look at any spoilers before a season starts (which makes it particularly galling when somebody openly posts one here and complains,"But EVERYBODY already knows!") but I always watch the "NEXT TIME" trailers for some good old fashioned hype for the next week. Right at the start of the season they revealed in the trailer at the end of Pilot that there would be Mondasian Cybermen, and that Simm was coming back. So yes it was an extremely exciting and pretty big holy gently caress moment, but that and the trailer at the end of The Eaters of Light did undercut the impact of his reveal in World Enough and Time. I can't imagine how amazing it would have been to have it come out of the blue like the Jacobi reveal largely did for me back in season 3. Yeah it was right up there with that moment. The Martha season was the first year I went on spoiler lockdown because I was annoyed I knew about the Cybermen vs Daleks in Doomsday. After that I’ve tried to do that every year because of moments like these. I didn’t even know about the Mondasian Cybermen but I kind of saw part of it coming so my thoughts went like this: Well I guess they’re going to retcon the Cybermen creation I guess that’s okay after Age of Steel but I don’t know why they would... Oh Missy is digging into the computer maybe she’s going to see what’s going on and turns bad again and ... Wait... MONDAS? Wait... who is this guy in the .... :: ... no ... they didn’t .... did they? On a semi-related note at the con this weekend I met the guy who wrote Dalek and was able to finally find out the truth behind the title. I always suspected the episode wasn’t supposed to have such a giveaway title given the way the Dalek was revealed. So I asked him if he had a different title in mind and he said “well, yeah early on I did and you know the BBC sort of wanted to have the word Dalek in the title given that the Daleks weren’t even supposed to come back in the new series so they kind of wanted to make a big deal...” and looked a little sheepish. Unfortunately I forget now what he wanted to call it.
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# ? Mar 29, 2018 00:33 |
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Doctor Zero posted:Yeah it was right up there with that moment. The Martha season was the first year I went on spoiler lockdown because I was annoyed I knew about the Cybermen vs Daleks in Doomsday. After that I’ve tried to do that every year because of moments like these. I didn’t even know about the Mondasian Cybermen but I kind of saw part of it coming so my thoughts went like this: I think Shearman wanted to just call it The Vault or The Metaltron?
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# ? Mar 29, 2018 00:42 |
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Yeah it was generic like The Collector or In the Vault or something like that.
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# ? Mar 29, 2018 03:37 |
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Huh? Already? That's way too soon for him to be doing cons.
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# ? Mar 29, 2018 06:53 |
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Jerusalem posted:The Eaters of Light is remarkable for one reason: it was written Rona Munro. Why is that remarkable? Because Munro also wrote Survival, which was the last ever episode of the classic run of Doctor Who. This makes her, to date, the only writer to have worked on television episodes of the classic series AND the revival (other classic series writers like Terrance Dicks have written revival era content in other media, and several "wilderness years" writers came on to work on the revival). Great review overall but this point threw me for loop. At first I thought you must be wrong but then I remembered there has been at least one director who worked in both eras but I haven't heard tell of writers before now. Which begs the question: Where's Ben Aaronovitch's invitation to write for the revival? Anyone else reading the Peter Grant books? Dude's one of my favorites. I'd go so far as to say he's a good writer. And his first job was writing for the classic series. Specifically, two of Sylv's best stories. This man may very well have written the immortal words, "Unlimited rice pudding," and he hasn't been asked back?! (I say "may very well have" as a C.Y.A since, given the nature of script writing, that specific line could have been Cartmel's, the director's, an ad-lib or suggested by any one present at the time really. But it was delivered in a story with Aaronovitch's byline so I'll assume it's his work.)
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# ? Mar 29, 2018 08:25 |
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Carbon dioxide posted:Huh? Already? That's way too soon for him to be doing cons. How do you figure? Capaldi started doing them when his Doctor coat was barely cool.
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# ? Mar 29, 2018 08:59 |
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Well, here it is, with Whittaker's logo for some reason: https://twitter.com/DrWhoOnline/status/978941993173880832
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# ? Mar 29, 2018 12:56 |
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Bicyclops posted:He's doing photos with a TARDIS, too. Maybe talking about it had made it easier for him to start engaging with the show again. I have an alternative explanation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpbbuaIA3Ds
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# ? Mar 29, 2018 13:51 |
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King Plum the Nth posted:Great review overall but this point threw me for loop. At first I thought you must be wrong but then I remembered there has been at least one director who worked in both eras but I haven't heard tell of writers before now. Which begs the question: Where's Ben Aaronovitch's invitation to write for the revival? Anyone else reading the Peter Grant books? Dude's one of my favorites. I'd go so far as to say he's a good writer. And his first job was writing for the classic series. Specifically, two of Sylv's best stories. This man may very well have written the immortal words, "Unlimited rice pudding," and he hasn't been asked back?! It surprised me too, I'm guessing a combination of time passed and no real big names meant it has been low on the priority list. Peter Harness got to write 4 episodes though
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# ? Mar 29, 2018 13:58 |
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Trin Tragula posted:I have an alternative explanation That motivation was presumably there for thirteen years before now, though
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# ? Mar 29, 2018 14:02 |
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Christ, Eccles.
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# ? Mar 29, 2018 18:09 |
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yeah i guess 400 bucks an autograph would get me to do a con too
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# ? Mar 29, 2018 18:13 |
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Stobbit posted:Well, here it is, with Whittaker's logo for some reason: FInally!
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# ? Mar 29, 2018 18:27 |
Stobbit posted:Well, here it is, with Whittaker's logo for some reason: It's just the Doctor Who logo now. Expect to see everywhere from now on. Even classic stuff.
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# ? Mar 29, 2018 19:31 |
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Well, Five-atar didn't last long.
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# ? Mar 29, 2018 22:33 |
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Bicyclops posted:Well, Five-atar didn't last long. What did you do?
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# ? Mar 29, 2018 22:40 |
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Bicyclops posted:Well, Five-atar didn't last long. Dammit Still, that photo of current WWE Champion Brock Lesnar is certainly amusing.
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# ? Mar 29, 2018 23:28 |
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The_Doctor posted:What did you do? I don't know! My mystery grump has not revealed why they don't like me and I actually can't think of anyone who might be mad at the moment. It's a real head-scratcher! e: apparently it is the first GIS result for Downs. Bicyclops fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Mar 30, 2018 |
# ? Mar 29, 2018 23:48 |
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I love you.
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# ? Mar 30, 2018 00:15 |
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Rhyno posted:I love you. Wa... was this you? Why'd you do this to Peter, Rhyno? Why'd you do it?
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# ? Mar 30, 2018 00:43 |
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I'm just trying to make you feel better!
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# ? Mar 30, 2018 02:09 |
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Bicyclops posted:I don't know! My mystery grump has not revealed why they don't like me and I actually can't think of anyone who might be mad at the moment. It's a real head-scratcher! The answer to "who's angry enough to waste $10 on my new av?" is almost always "someone in D&D" or "someone in Games".
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# ? Mar 30, 2018 02:38 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 15:08 |
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Big Mean Jerk posted:The answer to "who's angry enough to waste $10 on my new av?" is almost always "someone in D&D" or "someone in Games". This has normally been the case for me, but I've been pretty quiet in both places. I'm having trouble making the Six one, anyway, so I guess I'm stuck with it for awhile.
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# ? Mar 30, 2018 02:53 |