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FilthyImp posted:BP is unapologetically Afrocentric in a way that hasn't been seen or attempted in popular media to this scale. The crossover success is validation because of normalizing effects, and the financial success rebuts the talking point that those films aren't of value to a film company. :beepuke:
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Apr 1, 2018 20:31
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Unapologetic Intersectional Afrofuturistic Synergy With DisneyCorp and Northrup Grumman
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Apr 1, 2018 20:32
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Unapologetic Intersectional Afrofuturistic Synergy With DisneyCorp and Northrup Grumman
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Apr 1, 2018 20:37
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I don't think you're quite grasping the nature of my disgust, but let's move on.
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Apr 1, 2018 20:52
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I don't think you're quite grasping the nature of my disgust, but let's move on.
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Apr 1, 2018 20:57
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FilthyImp posted:Do we discount Ellen's coming out moment or Roseanne's inclusion of nonhetero characters as well because they were on ABC??? Well, while we're on the subject, yes. I don't really give a poo poo. Why would I? I'm not an ABC shareholder and have no interest in the supposed importance of Capt. Kirk kissing a black woman instead of a green woman, or whatever. Corporate whig history means nothing to me. That's not to say these things can't be noted or even appreciated but I'll leave the self congratulatory PR to the people paid to promote it.
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Apr 1, 2018 21:05
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That’s not what ‘authoritarianism’ means. One of the only key actions that he actually accomplishes as king is destroying the sacred herb. This contrasts with earlier in the film during the M'Baku's challenge to T'Challa. Killing M'Baku would be beneficial to T'Challa's reign as King, but T'Challa relents. He convinces a man who is his main foil as King to live, and as a result, to challenge him, and opens the window for M'Baku or someone else from his tribe to take on the role as King someday. Killmonger in burning the sacred herb, symbolically stopping any peaceful transfer of power or the ability for a minority group like M'Baku's people to ever ascend beyond their current station. And once again, as King, that's the main thing we actually really see him do beyond his failed staging of a vague global coup that hinged on people blindly following him. This is combined with the fact that Killmonger is purposely meant to invoke the police with his blue tactical gear and planned his revolution by learning the tactics of the film's imperialistic CIA. But the most revealing moment of Killmonger is the reason he dies. In his last moments, he finally is able to just take in how beautiful Wakanda actually is. This is a callback to his ancestral vision where despite being the son of a Wakandan prince, he can still only connect with an Oakland project. But the actual reason he dies is, despite the fact T'Challa is perfectly willing to save him, Killmonger can see no space between being a king and being in bondage. For him, there is only subjugation or being the one who subjugates. And yeah, authoritarianism might be the wrong word. But comparing Killmonger to the characters in Burn in Flames is a silly statement. And while I think there is tons to critique in Black Panther in terms of pure filmmaking and in politics, the bigger issue is that a lot of the criticisms that have come up are superficial and lazy hot takes. Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Apr 1, 2018 |
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Apr 1, 2018 23:17
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I was going to make fun of SMG spitting out white supremacist talking points in order to go after a marvel movie but this is the guy who defended Armond White for calling Parkland crisis actors.
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Apr 1, 2018 23:39
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FilthyImp posted:BP is unapologetically Afrocentric in a way that hasn't been seen or attempted in popular media to this scale. The crossover success is validation because of normalizing effects, and the financial success rebuts the talking point that those films aren't of value to a film company. The only characters that we see from an actual existing African nation are rounding up women to sell them into sex slavery, which undercuts the Afrocentrism claim. Is it Afrocentric to build a fantasy world about a place that is “African” but wildly different than every actual place in Africa? Also, most people that I’ve seen post critically of the film in this thread are disappointed that it wasn’t as thematically interesting as his Coogler’s previous work, so it seems odd to say that people are delegitimizing his accomplishments by saying that they wish it was...more like his other two very good movies? Again, the main thrust of the argument for its significance is meta-textual. It’s got nothing to do with what the movie is about. Every argument presented would be exactly the same no matter what the themes were as long as it made a billion dollars and had a predominantly black cast. And it’s true, that is significant! But it isn’t argument for quality.
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Apr 1, 2018 23:49
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FilthyImp posted:Outside of, like, Meteorman or Blankman, the closest Big AA Hero film is likely Blade. Nonsense; Jumanji 2 is still in theatres. That you can only think of four movies in all history is your limitation. But there’s a more fundamental problem. You are following a logic where ‘the king and the land are one’: Black Panther effectively is black people, because the status of the film in the arena of popular opinion determines the fate of the black race. That logic is backwards. In truth, the film’s success is the result of the progressive politics that it exploits. Disney is capitalizing on the strides black people have already made, and continue to make. Of course it’s not purely a one-sided thing. The film may very well raise the self-esteem of some kids in families that identify as culturally African, or whatever. But you are not taking into account the massive disparity between those kids and the Disney corporation.
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Apr 1, 2018 23:50
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The idea that the film should be praised merely for featuring black characters, rather than anything it says, is actually much more disturbing than whatever is being implied about the film's critics in this thread. That actually is some patronising, quota filling bullshit.YOLOsubmarine posted:
Coogler managed to make a good Rocky movie, that simultaneously served as the latest chapter and was very much its own thing, in 2015, 39 years after the first film. Coogler might actually be a wizard. That's a big part of why this is so disappointing: it's just another Marvel movie, albeit an exceptionally successful one.
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Apr 2, 2018 00:01
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I'm baffled by the argument that Black Panther is significant because it made a billion dollars. Who gives a poo poo how much it made? http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=aliceinwonderland10.htm Is Alice in Wonderland an important film? Did you even remember it existed until just now? Even though its great that this films success could lead to more opportunities for minority filmmakers, that still doesn't mean the content is great or above criticism. Forget the more political arguments for a second, most of the action scenes in this are terrible, especially the final fight between BP and Killmonger. It is floaty and without impact, and features a shot straight out of the climax of the original X-Men film, that looked like poo poo then and still looks like poo poo now. (BP spinning around that pillar like Wolverine did around the Statue of Liberty's, uh, hat spikes?) I don't think this is Coogler's fault, the one-take fight in Creed is tops and I like the two waterfall fights in this, so maybe the CGI requirements just turned everything to poo poo.
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Apr 2, 2018 00:07
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garycoleisgod posted:I'm baffled by the argument that Black Panther is significant because it made a billion dollars. Who gives a poo poo how much it made? http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=aliceinwonderland10.htm Is Alice in Wonderland an important film? Did you even remember it existed until just now? garycoleisgod posted:Forget the more political arguments for a second, most of the action scenes in this are terrible, especially the final fight between BP and Killmonger. It is floaty and without impact, and features a shot straight out of the climax of the original X-Men film, that looked like poo poo then and still looks like poo poo now. (BP spinning around that pillar like Wolverine did around the Statue of Liberty's, uh, hat spikes?) Even those waterfall fights are cut to poo poo. It seems an MCU requirement to have no faith in the actors physical abilities, even when they've clearly physically put the work in. It's been getting worse roughly since Winter Soldier.
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Apr 2, 2018 00:11
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garycoleisgod posted:I'm baffled by the argument that Black Panther is significant because it made a billion dollars. Who gives a poo poo how much it made? http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=aliceinwonderland10.htm Is Alice in Wonderland an important film? Did you even remember it existed until just now? Exactly. Without looking it up: which black film first made 10 million? Which first made 100 million?
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Apr 2, 2018 00:20
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garycoleisgod posted:Even though its great that this films success could lead to more opportunities for minority filmmakers, that still doesn't mean the content is great or above criticism. I actually liked the argument that someone made recently that it seemed far more progressive that Ava DuVernay was immediately offered New Gods by WB because a. seems shocking that a black woman could tank a big budget film at the box office and immediately get another big project and b. she got the project because she knows the property and not because she's assigned the requisite "black film" as a Black director.
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Apr 2, 2018 00:43
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YOLOsubmarine posted:The only characters that we see from an actual existing African nation are rounding up women to sell them into sex slavery, which undercuts the Afrocentrism claim.
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Apr 2, 2018 01:09
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temple posted:Explain because it sounds like bs. Do you know what afrocentric means? Wakanda isn’t real. It’s not African. Actual, existing, Africa, and Africans, are barely depicted in the film at all. As such, it seems odd to say that the movie is informed by the historical richness and deep traditions of African nations and people, past and present. The film seems very confident in what it says about the black American experience, but far less so about the African one.
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Apr 2, 2018 01:39
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I think that while it's quite valid to bring up the bad, muddled and unfortunate politics and implications of the movie, it's still also worth acknowledging that marginalised people can take a positive message away from it regardless and accept that it might be a good thing in the long run. (if only because the bad stuff is something that everyone's exposed to anyway, it's nearly background noise in commercial art)
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Apr 2, 2018 02:32
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Inescapable Duck posted:I think that while it's quite valid to bring up the bad, muddled and unfortunate politics and implications of the movie, it's still also worth acknowledging that marginalised people can take a positive message away from it regardless and accept that it might be a good thing in the long run. (if only because the bad stuff is something that everyone's exposed to anyway, it's nearly background noise in commercial art) this is too nuanced a take, needs more pretentious pseudo-academic jargon declaring anything said in praise of a Marvel Studios film to be objectively false and invalid
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Apr 2, 2018 02:40
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Inescapable Duck posted:I think that while it's quite valid to bring up the bad, muddled and unfortunate politics and implications of the movie, it's still also worth acknowledging that marginalised people can take a positive message away from it regardless and accept that it might be a good thing in the long run. (if only because the bad stuff is something that everyone's exposed to anyway, it's nearly background noise in commercial art) Cool, the idea is acknowledged, now can we talk about the movie or...?
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Apr 2, 2018 02:50
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Barry Convex posted:this is too nuanced a take, needs more pretentious pseudo-academic jargon declaring anything said in praise of a Marvel Studios film to be objectively false and invalid I'm so glad the multi-billion dollar franchise has you to stand up for it. Hat Thoughts posted:Cool, the idea is acknowledged, now can we talk about the movie or...? We've spent fifty pages doing that, pausing only for someone to pop in with a hot take that everyone criticising it is racist.
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Apr 2, 2018 02:52
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Snowman_McK posted:We've spent fifty pages doing that, pausing only for someone to pop in with a hot take that everyone criticising it is racist. I'd say less that they're racist and more that many of them are just engaging in standard-issue fanboy tribalism that they've convinced themselves is rooted in Serious Intellectual Leftist Critique but ymmv
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Apr 2, 2018 02:57
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Barry Convex posted:I'd say less that they're racist and more that many of them are just engaging in standard-issue fanboy tribalism that they've convinced themselves is rooted in Serious Intellectual Leftist Critique but ymmv Bullshit. Utter bullshit. People have written fairly detailed criticisms of the films based on events, dialogue and characters in the film, and the defence of them has primarily revolved around 'if you ignore that very specific thing, the implication goes away' Snowman_McK fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Apr 2, 2018 |
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Apr 2, 2018 03:26
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Wakanda isn’t real. It’s not African. Actual, existing, Africa, and Africans, are barely depicted in the film at all. As such, it seems odd to say that the movie is informed by the historical richness and deep traditions of African nations and people, past and present. Wakanda is real. The cultural depictions were real. The panther god Bast is real.
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Apr 2, 2018 03:35
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temple posted:Wakanda is real. The cultural depictions were real. The panther god Bast is real. if Bast was real, she would eat mickey mouse
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Apr 2, 2018 03:56
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Barry Convex posted:I'd say less that they're racist and more that many of them are just engaging in standard-issue fanboy tribalism that they've convinced themselves is rooted in Serious Intellectual Leftist Critique but ymmv Only racists or, uh, DC fanboys, could have issues with the movie then? That’s the argument?
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Apr 2, 2018 04:09
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Inescapable Duck posted:I think that while it's quite valid to bring up the bad, muddled and unfortunate politics and implications of the movie, it's still also worth acknowledging that marginalised people can take a positive message away from it regardless and accept that it might be a good thing in the long run. That’s already happening with those who point out that Killmonger is right. We’re doing both simultaneously. There is little actual disagreement ITT. It’s mostly confusion between such things as antiracism and multiculturalism: the film is being, falsely, declared antiracist because of its cultural significance, when there is little or nothing egalitarian in it.
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Apr 2, 2018 04:10
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Weirdly enough Bast as the god of Wakandan kings is as valid as anything given from evidence she was at times the god of war, fertility, beer, parties, incense and usually always cats. The Egyptian gods swapped jobs a lot. In some versions she starts as the god of war until she gets drunk and chills out.
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Apr 2, 2018 04:32
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temple posted:Wakanda is real. The cultural depictions were real. The panther god Bast is real. Bast is real, and strong, and he's my friend.
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Apr 2, 2018 05:09
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Only racists or, uh, DC fanboys, could have issues with the movie then? That’s the argument? by no means and there *are* a number of legitimate criticisms of BP and other MCU films, but I do think that poo poo underlies a lot of the specific tenor of discussion that’s peculiar to this particular forum.
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Apr 2, 2018 05:19
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Barry Convex posted:by no means and there *are* a number of legitimate criticisms of BP and other MCU films, but I do think that poo poo underlies a lot of the specific tenor of discussion that’s peculiar to this particular forum. So what are the legitimate criticisms and how are they distinct from the criticisms on this particular forum?
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Apr 2, 2018 05:32
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What are the unique criticisms of bp that aren't reductions to fit it in the traditional super hero critiques?
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Apr 2, 2018 05:42
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Umm, that the film makes killmonger Trump's idea of BLM, so a king, losing his throne rightfully to someone his family wronged in the most severe way, can be considered good even when he cheats to get it back. And then he does nothing to absolve the reason for the revolution. Tech centers in silicon valley are meaningless, especially when the movie was filmed in the worse off Atlanta. Also, they make him complicit in the continued slow genocide of black Americans. They're only dying cause they're not working hard enough is this movies stance. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Apr 2, 2018 |
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Apr 2, 2018 06:30
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you are poisoning the film by using trump and blm to paint clear lines of morality. and the reason for revolution wasn't the point building tech centers or killmonger coming to wakanda. he didn't cheat. he didn't die or yield. maybe killmonger should have checked.
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Apr 2, 2018 06:59
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Is it worth to watch this film?
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Apr 2, 2018 07:16
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Wakanda is basically TF2 Australia.
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Apr 2, 2018 07:19
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temple posted:What are the unique criticisms of bp that aren't reductions to fit it in the traditional super hero critiques? http://bostonreview.net/race/christopher-lebron-black-panther
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Apr 2, 2018 07:37
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temple posted:you are poisoning the film by using trump and blm to paint clear lines of morality. and the reason for revolution wasn't the point building tech centers or killmonger coming to wakanda. This is the next step from treating Wakanda as a real country - claiming that the movie is a biological being that can be poisoned.
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Apr 2, 2018 07:42
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:This is the next step from treating Wakanda as a real country - claiming that the movie is a biological being that can be poisoned. Brands are people, friend.
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Apr 2, 2018 07:46
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temple posted:What are the unique criticisms of bp that aren't reductions to fit it in the traditional super hero critiques? That black people aren't nerdy enough to be successful?
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Apr 2, 2018 08:08
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