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 After recently decamping from showrunning Veep, Armando Iannucci decided to take on something as equally hilarious as vice-presidential politics, British Ministerial politicking, and the run up to the Iraq War: the chaos and backstabbing arising out of the death of Stalin in 1953. Starring a foul mouthed Steve Buscemi, the funny yet controversial and apparent sex monster Jeffrey Tambor (doing a Houdini in the poster above), Michael Palin, Simon Beale (this is my first experience with the guy, and he's a goddamn force in this pic), and a roster of other British heavyweights. Based on a comic series I've never read, it's a hilarious and at times completely brutal piece of work, made even more powerful by it hitting you after another great biting piece of dialogue. Go see it! And come here to discuss cuz holy hell there's a lot happening in this movie. e: and before anyone says anything, yes I realize I forgot to put the proper icon on this thread. If any mod can do the needful for my forgetting rear end, it'd be appreciated. e2: thx! Shageletic fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Mar 28, 2018 |
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Mar 28, 2018 21:22
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It's a very interesting study in tone. Utterly horrific things going on while the leadership of the USSR acts like a middle school clique. The film makes it clear that Beria is a monster, but it also clues you into the fact that none of the other members of the Central Committee are innocent either. Jason Isaacs steals the show and has one the best entrances I've seen in years, he plays Marshall Zhukov, head of the Soviet Army as a brusque Yorkshireman. It's an utter shame this isn't getting more attention in the US.
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Mar 28, 2018 22:12
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SimonCat posted:It's an utter shame this isn't getting more attention in the US. https://twitter.com/Aiannucci/status/978334185764073472 So it seems it’s doing better than they expected.
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Mar 29, 2018 07:27
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watched it last night and didn't like it very much. putting aside historical inaccuracy (the restaged concerto and nkvd opening fire on mourners incidents were both apocryphal), i don't think it did a very good job handling tonal dissonance and the perceived need for Very Serious moments undermined the comedy. isaacs as zhukov was easily the highlight and a good choice for soviet malcolm tucker i like a lot of iannucci's work but he definitely has a wheelhouse and when he ventures to subject matter outside of it he's very quick to try and force things back in his comfort zone (the weird quasi-parliamentary politics in veep, for example) R. Guyovich fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Mar 29, 2018 |
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Mar 29, 2018 08:22
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R. Guyovich posted:watched it last night and didn't like it very much. putting aside historical inaccuracy (the restaged concerto and nkvd opening fire on mourners incidents were both apocryphal), i don't think it did a very good job handling tonal dissonance and the perceived need for Very Serious moments undermined the comedy. isaacs as zhukov was easily the highlight and a good choice for soviet malcolm tucker It's ok Comrade, Stalin can't hurt you anymore.
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Mar 29, 2018 11:37
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Saw it last year at a festival screening. Jason Isaacs steals every loving scene he is in.
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Mar 30, 2018 06:26
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Not sure if the warehouse climax snuck up on me because it was supposed to or because I was deep in the pivo.
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Mar 30, 2018 07:08
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just another posted:Not sure if the warehouse climax snuck up on me because it was supposed to or because I was deep in the pivo. It really does sneak up on you. The movie has a pretty light tone up till then, even with all the horrific things happening, and then gets very real. It's like something out of a nightmare and it's interesting to watch all these high government functionaries going through the motions and acting like a mob.
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Mar 30, 2018 12:22
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This is by and far the best movie of 2018 so far. I've never laughed so hard at something so horrifying so often. Annoyed as poo poo buscemi is the best buscemi...when he says "The loving moon??" to beria during THAT scene I felt like a legit madman laughing in that moment but it's just so perfect.
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Mar 30, 2018 17:39
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Saw it last year at a festival screening. I watched it last year (UK) and remember that I enjoyed it despite it not being my usual thing. And that Jason Isaacs steals every scene hes in.
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Mar 31, 2018 17:15
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SimonCat posted:It really does sneak up on you. The movie has a pretty light tone up till then, even with all the horrific things happening, and then gets very real. It's like something out of a nightmare and it's interesting to watch all these high government functionaries going through the motions and acting like a mob. Just saw it, and really have to agree with this- there’s a lot in the way things are paced and staged to lay everything at Stalin and Beria’s feet and laugh at the rest as pathetic, will-say-anything-to-save-their-hides buffoons, and then that last meeting and warehouse scene remind you that any of them would have done the same things.
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Apr 1, 2018 05:43
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I need to watch this again. I just remember it was very good. No idea about historical accuracy. As I recall it is basically In the Loop but with Stalin, I remember it being more than that but its a bit fuzzy. Some drat fine acting.
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Apr 1, 2018 18:26
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Jason Isaacs steals every loving scene he is in. He really does, it's not even fair. Palin is also so much better than he has been in like, literal decades. This movie is so good. And I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to report this conversation.
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Apr 1, 2018 20:57
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McDragon posted:I need to watch this again. I just remember it was very good. No idea about historical accuracy. As I recall it is basically In the Loop but with Stalin, I remember it being more than that but its a bit fuzzy. Some drat fine acting.  It was great overall even though it did feel like a Veep/ITL but with executions and historical accuracy is pretty doubtful.
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Apr 1, 2018 22:41
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McDragon posted:I need to watch this again. I just remember it was very good. No idea about historical accuracy. As far as I can tell, it's at least semi-accurate. The general course of events did take place, though over a matter of months, not days (Stalin died on March 2, Beria was tried and executed in late June the same year). They seemed to get the personality of the characters down pretty well, although they possibly toned down Beria a bit. Here's a Slate article with some more details Comrade Koba fucked around with this message at 10:07 on Apr 2, 2018 |
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Apr 2, 2018 10:03
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Comrade Koba posted:As far as I can tell, it's at least semi-accurate. The general course of events did take place, though over a matter of months, not days (Stalin died on March 2, Beria was tried and executed in late June the same year). beria was arrested in june and tried and executed in december.
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Apr 2, 2018 10:30
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and the basis for the "maria yudina roused from sleep to record a concerto" story is a widely discredited "memoir." that article is bad
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Apr 2, 2018 10:39
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R. Guyovich posted:beria was arrested in june and tried and executed in december. Correct. My bad, got the arrest and execution mixed up.
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Apr 2, 2018 10:59
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Just saw it with a friend who thought the general idea of a comment called The Death of Stalin sounded weird, and who then laughed her rear end off multiple times throughout. As did I. Great movie. Also, nobody has yet mentioned Rupert Friend's hilarious performance, especially the physical comedy. Shame. SHAME.
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Apr 2, 2018 12:21
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R. Guyovich posted:and the basis for the "maria yudina roused from sleep to record a concerto" story is a widely discredited "memoir." that article is bad It's really hilarious watching a Communist get butt hurt that a movie makes Stalin look like the petty thug he was.
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Apr 2, 2018 12:40
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wow baiting a mod twice on the same page and coming off like an rear end with a chip on their shoulder while doing it, I'm sure that never backfired on anyone I didn't see the movie yet, I'm sure I will like it even though Stalin did nothing wrong. inshallah
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Apr 2, 2018 14:46
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Autism Sneaks posted:I didn't see the movie yet, I'm sure I will like it even though Stalin did nothing wrong. inshallah
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Apr 2, 2018 14:51
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Can we have a sequel where Kruschev hangs out with Castro (Played by Oscar Isaac)?
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Apr 2, 2018 15:30
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Isaac would probably have to wear platform shoes
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Apr 2, 2018 15:41
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R. Guyovich posted:and the basis for the "maria yudina roused from sleep to record a concerto" story is a widely discredited "memoir." that article is bad I mean in the context of the film it's shorthand for "absolutely everyone is terrified because they could be taken at any moment for minor or even non-existent infractions" which is an incredibly important thing to set early - without that tone the film wouldn't work. It communicates the setting in an efficient and funny way without getting too dark too quickly which an actual historical event definitely could have. It also means Stalin is IIRC the first person to die on screen (or at very least very close to it) which is a kind of neat thematic trick - you see tons of people who are going to die but you don't start seeing the mass liquidations until after Stalin croaks. Really hammers home how ghoulish the power struggle really is. I think critiquing on historical accuracy misses the point somewhat - it does not attempt to be nor does it present itself as a historically accurate film and it's better for doing so.
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Apr 2, 2018 16:33
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Here's a question, was Leonid Brezhnev in the movie other than the end? I have a vague memory of someone who looked like him in Zhukov's party.
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Apr 2, 2018 16:52
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Shageletic posted:Here's a question, was Leonid Brezhnev in the movie other than the end? I have a vague memory of someone who looked like him in Zhukov's party. e: er, sorry misread that. Not that I noticed. I disagree with some of the analysis itt, I think the film paint's Khrushchev as a well-intentioned individual - certainly in contrast with the rest of the committee - who's hand is forced by Beria. Beria threatening him with the note at the funeral is a total fuckup and you can see Beria realizes it almost immediately because he loses his cool a few short scenes later. The coup, show trial and execution are certainly unpleasant but what else is Khrushchev going to do - he even says as much and is very much talking about himself when he says "we have to do this right now or we're all dead".
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Apr 2, 2018 17:01
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Shageletic posted:Here's a question, was Leonid Brezhnev in the movie other than the end? I have a vague memory of someone who looked like him in Zhukov's party. I’m fairly sure he was one of the officers carrying an AK in the trial/execution scene.
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Apr 2, 2018 17:33
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CoolCab posted:e: er, sorry misread that. Not that I noticed. Khrushchev is not a well intentioned individual. Iannucci doesn't write that kind of character, only spinners and losers. That's the point of the mock trial and rushed execution. They all do the exact same thing Stalin did. Draw up a list with a name, round him up, and execute him in the name of the new ruler.
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Apr 2, 2018 17:59
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SimonCat posted:It's really hilarious watching a Communist get butt hurt that a movie makes Stalin look like the petty thug he was. Butt hurt. FTW. CoolCab posted:I mean in the context of the film it's shorthand for "absolutely everyone is terrified because they could be taken at any moment for minor or even non-existent infractions" which is an incredibly important thing to set early - without that tone the film wouldn't work. It communicates the setting in an efficient and funny way without getting too dark too quickly which an actual historical event definitely could have. It also means Stalin is IIRC the first person to die on screen (or at very least very close to it) which is a kind of neat thematic trick - you see tons of people who are going to die but you don't start seeing the mass liquidations until after Stalin croaks. Really hammers home how ghoulish the power struggle really is. like i said initially historical inaccuracies are to be expected and i don't really have a problem with them but if conversation turns to "here's what really happened" and then inaccuracies are stated as fact it does no harm to correct them
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Apr 2, 2018 18:37
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Electronico6 posted:Khrushchev is not a well intentioned individual. Iannucci doesn't write that kind of character, only spinners and losers. That's the point of the mock trial and rushed execution. They all do the exact same thing Stalin did. Draw up a list with a name, round him up, and execute him in the name of the new ruler. That's only a meaningful sequence because he is a well intentioned individual - "well intentioned" is not the same as moral/good or competent -that's the basic principle behind all tragedy. It's tragic because this individual who the film repeatedly humanizes (again, in extremely sharp contrast to everyone else in power) and who the film makes abundantly clear is deeply uncomfortable with Stalin, Stalinism and any of the terror tactics associated is forced into employing them to save himself. Instead of being punished for betraying these intentions the system rewards him - doing so elevates him to absolute power despite the fact it demonstrates he should not have it. It's part of what makes the film such good satire - if the message they were trying to push was "actually everyone was just as evil as Beria or Stalin the whole time" it wouldn't be. I also disagree with your read of other Iannucci works - I've not picked up Veep but The Thick Of It and In The Loop particularly are full of moral characters with good intentions who are outmanoeuvred and ultimately defeated by amoral and cynical "spinners" - that's like, the denouement of Loop. e: ^^ ah, fair enough.
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Apr 2, 2018 18:48
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Shageletic posted:Here's a question, was Leonid Brezhnev in the movie other than the end? I have a vague memory of someone who looked like him in Zhukov's party. I believe we first see him as the guy on the rooftop Zhukov gives the signal to outside the funeral.
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Apr 2, 2018 19:40
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CoolCab posted:That's only a meaningful sequence because he is a well intentioned individual - "well intentioned" is not the same as moral/good or competent -that's the basic principle behind all tragedy. It's tragic because this individual who the film repeatedly humanizes (again, in extremely sharp contrast to everyone else in power) and who the film makes abundantly clear is deeply uncomfortable with Stalin, Stalinism and any of the terror tactics associated is forced into employing them to save himself. Instead of being punished for betraying these intentions the system rewards him - doing so elevates him to absolute power despite the fact it demonstrates he should not have it. It's part of what makes the film such good satire - if the message they were trying to push was "actually everyone was just as evil as Beria or Stalin the whole time" it wouldn't be. He is uncomfortable with Stalin because he may end up on his list, and indeed like no other, he has mastered Stalin's hell bureaucracy that he can easily turn it around on his rival and become a friendlier Stalin, but a Stalin nonetheless. The film is not "actually everyone was just as evil as Beria or Stalin the whole time", because that is indeed reductive. Stalin dies but his legacy and work lives intact, that is the satire. The tragedy of the film, are the people shot in the bridge. And the dead hockey team. Like all his other work, Iannucci is interested in power, it's systems and the people that operate in it, and Stalin's Soviet Union offers him the chance to make a story about that but where in the end the participants end up dead, and not simply shouted and broken by a foul mouthed Scottish man. What separates him from every other political satirist, is that the typical character of Mr Smith does not exist. Those in power and those that seek it are sociopaths or manics, or worse, utter tools like Malenkov in Death of Stalin. Who comes the closest to a real well meaning character, but for whom Iannucci holds no sympathy, as he is a coward. He does show sympathy for public workers, whose crime is just having a dumb job in Westminster/White House/Kremlin. Tucker appears to be what's wrong in British politics, yet the minister of In The Thick of It is a complete oaf, utterly obsessed about him/herself and only interested in the job as a means to further his/her career. At the end of each series, nothing is ever accomplished other than the shuffling of cabinet positions. Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Apr 2, 2018 |
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Apr 2, 2018 19:57
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Kinda want an Iannucci movie about Iran-Contra crisis after reading this thread Well, and I wanna see this movie.
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Apr 3, 2018 18:42
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I can't be the only one who thought the ending was setting up a sequel - "The Death of Kruschev" or something.
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Apr 3, 2018 20:41
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you were, bye.
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Apr 9, 2018 04:12
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precision posted:I can't be the only one who thought the ending was setting up a sequel - "The Death of Kruschev" or something. It wouldn't be that interesting as soviet politics got a less bloodthirsty after stalin, he just got forced into retirement instead of a bunch of people getting executed.
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Apr 10, 2018 21:30
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tekz posted:It wouldn't be that interesting as soviet politics got a less bloodthirsty after stalin, he just got forced into retirement instead of a bunch of people getting executed. I mean, I don't see that stopping Ianucci from getting a hilarious film out of it though.
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Apr 11, 2018 01:21
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I’d much rather watch Jason Issacs star in a Battle of Stalingrad film
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Apr 11, 2018 12:56
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Taintrunner posted:I’d much rather watch Jason Issacs star in a Battle of Stalingrad film This just reminds me that Sergio Leone tried really hard to make a Stalingrad film and I sorta wish he had Figure at worst it'd have been a interesting failure
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Apr 12, 2018 19:50
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