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Vegetable posted:What exactly was the methodology of the scraping? What are "account recovery and search tools that let users look people up by phone numbers and email addresses" and how does that let you "take information from profiles"? What, does Facebook feed you the account's email or password when you click Forgot Password? I don't know how account recovery plays into it, but you can (or at least could) typically find folks on Facebook by searching for their phone number or email address. Presumably, you can tie this information to public voter records and get some pretty detailed information about how to target voters.
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Apr 5, 2018 18:10
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Vegetable posted:What exactly was the methodology of the scraping? What are "account recovery and search tools that let users look people up by phone numbers and email addresses" and how does that let you "take information from profiles"? What, does Facebook feed you the account's email or password when you click Forgot Password? When one of your friends uses an app that app can apparently get some of your data, too. It seems the app can then see whatever your friend can see.
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Apr 5, 2018 18:11
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Out of curiosity, is this list still accurate as to the data Cambridge Analytica had access to?quote:About me Because if so, okay? All of this is available to the hundreds of people that you're friends with anyway. I'm sure that some of my status updates from 10 years ago would be pretty cringeworthy if someone were to plaster them on a billboard, but it's not like any of this is sensitive information.
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Apr 5, 2018 18:27
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Baronash posted:Out of curiosity, is this list still accurate as to the data Cambridge Analytica had access to? Some of us don’t have hundreds of friends and don’t want non friends seeing everything.
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Apr 5, 2018 19:17
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poemdexter posted:Some of us don’t have hundreds of friends and don’t want non friends seeing everything. These companies are only "seeing" your information insomuch as Facebook does: a bunch of cells in a CSV file that is being analyzed by a script to make assumptions about you. Sure, someone could, if they were so inclined, open it up in Excel and read it. But if you have information that you want to keep secret from a sufficiently motivated bad actor, why do you have it on Facebook?
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Apr 5, 2018 19:33
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Yes - this is one of those things that shouldn't be shocking to people in that they should realize that once you put info out there, it will be harvested by various people and stored indefinitely, but as long as this raises awareness of the issues around personal data collection, storage and use in general then it's good. A complete rethink of the entire 'big data' thing as relates to personal information is needed - I used to think the Europeans were archaic and unnecessarily restrictive about this but it's becoming clear that privacy and personal protections need to be a part of this from step one.
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Apr 5, 2018 19:37
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Baronash posted:These companies are only "seeing" your information insomuch as Facebook does: a bunch of cells in a CSV file that is being analyzed by a script to make assumptions about you. Sure, someone could, if they were so inclined, open it up in Excel and read it. But if you have information that you want to keep secret from a sufficiently motivated bad actor, why do you have it on Facebook? Because facebook led me to believe that people who weren't my friends couldn't see my info, likes, posts, etc? I went through all the security settings in the facebook and set it up as I wanted it to be. Are you saying that it's all just security theater and I actually have zero control over who sees what? Like I should be able to post "work sucks" on my wall without my employer having any possible way of seeing it. I should be able to because facebook security settings lead me to believe that's what's actually happening. I completely understand that I might be part of some aggregate dataset that says I'm white tech guy, but I'm talking PII data in hands of people that should be protected.
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Apr 5, 2018 19:40
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Mozi posted:A complete rethink of the entire 'big data' thing as relates to personal information is needed - I used to think the Europeans were archaic and unnecessarily restrictive about this but it's becoming clear that privacy and personal protections need to be a part of this from step one. in the meantime, ink cloud that poo poo - i liked everything on facebook i could get my hands on. try parsing that big data, fuckers  last time i checked facebook was reasonably sure i was a 60 year old retired woman who loved horses
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Apr 5, 2018 19:42
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poemdexter posted:Because facebook led me to believe that people who weren't my friends couldn't see my info, likes, posts, etc? I went through all the security settings in the facebook and set it up as I wanted it to be. Are you saying that it's all just security theater and I actually have zero control over who sees what? But if you let your friends see it your friends become the potential weakest link. ie, your boss can see your "works sucks" post if your "friend" shows it to them. So you have to rely on all your friends to know how security works too.
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Apr 5, 2018 19:46
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hobbesmaster posted:But if you let your friends see it your friends become the potential weakest link. ie, your boss can see your "works sucks" post if your "friend" shows it to them. So you have to rely on all your friends to know how security works too. I don't have any insight into how CA collected their data, but I'll go out on a limb and assume CA didn't call tons of people's friends asking them about their friends' data. If my data is being used in aggregate, I don't care. I'm just a number that can have advertisements targeted to. I'm only against having my PII shared to companies without consent.
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Apr 5, 2018 19:48
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poemdexter posted:I don't have any insight into how CA collected their data, but I'll go out on a limb and assume CA didn't call tons of people's friends asking them about their friends' data. What have you read? That's pretty much it, if any of your friends took a quiz for a dollar CA got your info. I'll believe these "i haev nothing to hide on FB!!!" takes when folks start uploading their .zip files for us to pursue. Surely there's fewer than a hundred folks reading this thread, can't add to your threat.
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Apr 5, 2018 19:55
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poemdexter posted:I don't have any insight into how CA collected their data, but I'll go out on a limb and assume CA didn't call tons of people's friends asking them about their friends' data. If it's on your public profile, anybody with a web browser can get it. If your friend signs up for some app and gives it access to everything he sees, everything you have set to 'friends only' can be seen by the app (which is the case with CA). It goes a step further if you have anything set to 'friends of friends' (if that's even still a thing). fake edit: looks like 'friends of friends' isn't a thing anymore:  real edit: yeah, they got rid of 'friends of friends' at some point, and you can remove that kind of access from older posts in your settings: 
a foolish pianist fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Apr 5, 2018 |
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Apr 5, 2018 19:58
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poemdexter posted:Like I should be able to post "work sucks" on my wall without my employer having any possible way of seeing it. I should be able to because facebook security settings lead me to believe that's what's actually happening. I mean, this is getting into the "sufficiently-motivated bad actor" territory. Unless you have a genuine concern that your employer would put a Facebook quiz together, hope one of your Facebook friends would take it, use that permission to gain access to your data, and then read the resulting data to find that "work sucks" post, (AKA Cambridge Analytica's method) then Facebook's security settings are likely doing their job. A far more likely scenario is that one of your Facebook friends is also a coworker and tells the boss that you said "work sucks."
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Apr 5, 2018 20:03
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JawnV6 posted:What have you read? That's pretty much it, if any of your friends took a quiz for a dollar CA got your info. Ah I totally forgot about the quiz poo poo so yeah that makes sense. Welp. Baronash posted:I mean, this is getting into the "sufficiently-motivated bad actor" territory. Unless you have a genuine concern that your employer would put a Facebook quiz together, hope one of your Facebook friends would take it, use that permission to gain access to your data, and then read the resulting data to find that "work sucks" post, (AKA Cambridge Analytica's method) then Facebook's security settings are likely doing their job. A far more likely scenario is that one of your Facebook friends is also a coworker and tells the boss that you said "work sucks." It's a more likely scenario yes, but that's also why coworkers aren't facebook friends of mine. Also, I can kick a coworker in the dick/vagina for telling the boss at least.
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Apr 5, 2018 20:15
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a foolish pianist posted:If it's on your public profile, anybody with a web browser can get it. For me, every "friend" belongs to the acquaintances group unless they're family or close friends, and my profile data is only visible to "friends except acquaintances".
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Apr 5, 2018 20:57
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lol at any posters in this thread who still have an active facebook account
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Apr 5, 2018 21:25
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Marijuana posted:lol at any posters in this thread who still have an active facebook account Sometimes the people you want to keep up with only use Facebook 
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Apr 5, 2018 21:34
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Star Man posted:Sometimes the people you want to keep up with only use Facebook lol at any posters in this thread that have friends
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Apr 5, 2018 21:51
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Haha good loving lord Facebook sent a doctor on a secret mission to ask hospitals to share patient data quote:While the data shared would obscure personally identifiable information, such as the patient's name, Facebook proposed using a common computer science technique called "hashing" to match individuals who existed in both sets. Facebook says the data would have been used only for research conducted by the medical community. I'm about to finally get rid of my (long neglected) Facebook account. I never trusted Facebook enough to share much but this is completely out of hand.
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Apr 5, 2018 22:13
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I ditched Facebook back in December 2016. Everyone told me I was overreacting, yet, here we are.
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Apr 6, 2018 03:32
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mycomancy posted:I ditched Facebook back in December 2016. Everyone told me I was overreacting, yet, here we are. I remember around that time there was a post in the GBS Anonymous Confessions thread that was something like "delete your Facebook now or feel really loving stupid in the future"
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Apr 6, 2018 03:44
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EugeneJ posted:I remember around that time there was a post in the GBS Anonymous Confessions thread that was something like "delete your Facebook now or feel really loving stupid in the future" I was unaware of that thread though at the time I would've been in 100% agreement.
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Apr 6, 2018 04:01
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Rhesus Pieces posted:Haha good loving lord Say a researcher wants to know if someone who posts about feeling tired is more likely to present at a hospital with an accident. The hospital data is super confidential, the facebook list of sleepy users is confidential, and neither group can share whose on the lists. But with the right cryptography algorithms applied to these datasets you can answer that question. On the other hand, you can also do that completely wrong and violate all manner of HIPPA stuff.
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Apr 6, 2018 05:04
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JawnV6 posted:What have you read? That's pretty much it, if any of your friends took a quiz for a dollar CA got your info. Where do I go to see what they've scraped about me, on my profile that I use maybe ten times a year, because it sounds like it might be funny
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Apr 6, 2018 12:56
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Facebook retracted Zuckerberg’s messages from recipients’ inboxes Please get him on obstruction, please get him on obstruction, please get him on obstruction... 
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Apr 6, 2018 13:09
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JawnV6 posted:What have you read? That's pretty much it, if any of your friends took a quiz for a dollar CA got your info. There's a huge difference between "one of my friends revealed specific information about me on purpose" and "my friend clicked 'forward' in an app and that app got everything I have ever posted" There's only so much that can be done about the first risk, but the second one shouldn't be a thing.
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Apr 6, 2018 13:39
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Dylan16807 posted:There's a huge difference between "one of my friends revealed specific information about me on purpose" and "my friend clicked 'forward' in an app and that app got everything I have ever posted"
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Apr 6, 2018 15:12
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twodot posted:The only way the second one isn't going to be a thing is if you moderate your friends to not click buttons that share everything they can see. Once you publish information, you're relying on everyone that can see it to not be lazy/uninformed. This is a great point. I mean, almost all law and business is based on people thinking through every action and making rational, forward-thinking choices.
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Apr 6, 2018 15:30
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mycomancy posted:This is a great point. I mean, almost all law and business is based on people thinking through every action and making rational, forward-thinking choices.
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Apr 6, 2018 15:43
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twodot posted:The only way the second one isn't going to be a thing is if you moderate your friends to not click buttons that share everything they can see. Once you publish information, you're relying on everyone that can see it to not be lazy/uninformed. The obvious implication is that Facebook can solve the second problem. The fact that they have, in fact, not only not solved it but created it in the first place is among the reasons people are upset.
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Apr 6, 2018 16:04
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Steve French posted:The obvious implication is that Facebook can solve the second problem. The fact that they have, in fact, not only not solved it but created it in the first place is among the reasons people are upset.
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Apr 6, 2018 16:22
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twodot posted:How would Facebook go about solving the problem of "people give away their Facebook credentials to third parties"? Facebook isn't complaining that Kogan collected the data, but that they passed it along after collecting it. It's the difference between Bilbo giving the Ring to Frodo, and Sauron creating it in the first place.
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Apr 6, 2018 16:28
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twodot posted:How would Facebook go about solving the problem of "people give away their Facebook credentials to third parties"? By limiting what data can be accessed by their API, which they did in 2015 as a response to issues like this. That API change stopped allowing apps to gain access to your friends' data just because you agreed to share your own. There was a lot that Facebook could have done, but didn't do until there were issues because it made their platform less attractive to developers and advertisers.
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Apr 6, 2018 16:48
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ShadowHawk posted:On the other hand, you can also do that completely wrong and violate all manner of HIPPA stuff. HIPAA, and fwiw it's way, way easier to do things at that level incorrectly than correctly. "re-identification" of anonymized datasets is also increasingly impossible to stop for a sufficiently motivated actor (and advertisers are highly motivated).
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Apr 6, 2018 17:00
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I'd make an argument for a solid national identity system with a clear bill of privacy rights but I'm sure I'll be laughed out of this thread for "lol government". Why do we trusts private corps with our data vs state actors?
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Apr 6, 2018 18:26
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BlueBlazer posted:I'd make an argument for a solid national identity system with a clear bill of privacy rights but I'm sure I'll be laughed out of this thread for "lol government". Why do we trusts private corps with our data vs state actors? Corporations sell ad space. Advertisers pay for ad space because it makes people more likely to buy stuff. So the end-game for an abusive advertising platform is that they'll get really good at showing you restaurants you want to eat at. Or they'll play videos that make you feel terrible for not owning a certain kind of shoes. The end game for an abusive government is people coming to your house to arrest you, or barring you from international travel. A clear set of rights would still be a good thing. And we should punish corporations that inevitably break those rights But, there are still reasons why we should worry about Trump getting our data.
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Apr 6, 2018 18:36
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The only difference between advertising and government propaganda is what they want to manipulate you into doing. It's all evil - ain't no such thing as good here - and the research into it is often straight up human testing without informed consent. In terms of surveillance private sector will try to bust up unions and things of that nature while government might merely be trying to more broadly stifle dissent. There's lots of overlap there - its the same data - and if its avail at all the government can just buy it.. so....
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Apr 6, 2018 18:50
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BlueBlazer posted:I'd make an argument for a solid national identity system with a clear bill of privacy rights but I'm sure I'll be laughed out of this thread for "lol government". Why do we trusts private corps with our data vs state actors? Are you somehow under the impression that this thread leans libertarian?
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Apr 6, 2018 18:51
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Buffer posted:The only difference between advertising and government propaganda is what they want to manipulate you into doing. It's all evil - ain't no such thing as good here - and the research into it is often straight up human testing without informed consent. I’m not sure if I would qualify all public propaganda as evil.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:03
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falcon2424 posted:A clear set of rights would still be a good thing. And we should punish corporations that inevitably break those rights Of course we should be worried, we have literally zero recourse as individuals at this point. Rights need to be given to us by our idiot rear end law makers so maybe its time we started talking about what those could be. BlueBlazer fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Apr 6, 2018 |
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Apr 6, 2018 19:19
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