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The Mighty Moltres
Dec 21, 2012

Come! We must fly!


Imagine you're a young art school grad, and you just scored your first big job - a set designer for Survivor! For the next few weeks you sew the tribe banners with the utmost care. You ensure each and every stitch is precise and perfect. Then you hang them, step back, and look proudly upon your work. Although you know the tribes will probably barely notice what you've done, you don't care. You're living your dream.
Then a few months later they burn one of your banners in half and stomp on it and call it cursed.

EDIT: I just realized that someone's job description includes finding a rock to hold down the tribal council parchments. I wonder if there are specifications that must be met.

The Mighty Moltres fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Apr 5, 2018

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Spergatory
Oct 28, 2012
Bradley acted like a snooty rich kid who attended private school and prior to graduation had literally never spoken to anyone outside of other rich kids and The Help. It was a wholly unique flavor of smarm and I will miss laughing at it every week.

I'm actually starting to worry that the post merge is gonna get really boring once Chris v Dom is settled, because we still have a lot of TV dead weight to sift through. There are going to be entire episodes devoted to voting out Chelsea, Libby, Jenna, Laurel, and Angela, and I am not looking forward to them.

Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004

Spergatory posted:

Bradley acted like a snooty rich kid who attended private school and prior to graduation had literally never spoken to anyone outside of other rich kids and The Help. It was a wholly unique flavor of smarm and I will miss laughing at it every week.

I'm actually starting to worry that the post merge is gonna get really boring once Chris v Dom is settled, because we still have a lot of TV dead weight to sift through. There are going to be entire episodes devoted to voting out Chelsea, Libby, Jenna, Laurel, and Angela, and I am not looking forward to them.

Laurel and Libby don't strike me as dead weight at all. In fact, I could see either of them as major candidates to win, depending on what alliances they find themselves in.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Yeah, Laurel's playing a good, under the radar social game, like Wendell. With her challenge strength she could easily snake a long way.

I actually doubt either of Chris or Dom is going to be the merge boot, there are too many factors here (Dom's legacy/idol, Chris having a decent shot at immunity). It might just hit one of the waysiders like Angela or Desiree.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Propaganda Machine posted:

Bradley is an asshat but he's an entertaining asshat.
Bradley was such a little poo poo that we got multiple weeks of story of what a little whining arrogant dick he was, before he was backstabbed primarily for being a dick right after he gave a confessional where he admitted he's a dick and that being a dick might be his biggest weakness.

Excellent villain in the "as much of a douche as is possible while still being basically harmless" vein; he didn't go full Varner or even get into the Jason/Scot bullying territory... he was just an entitled hatable snot. Fun! And fun to see him blindsided.

Lone Goat posted:

Think this is a bone headed move here but can appreciate the comedy.
My thinking to justify it strategically is this: Donathan and Laurel had approached Wendel and Dom about allying up on the previous tribe, right? And Libby was on that tribe too. With this move, Dom solidifies these three people as allies, for the cost of one rear end in a top hat ally, who might have driven away swing voters.

Short-term he's still safe on that tribe, and for a merge battle with Chris, he might be better armed now. Like, it's possible that without this move, Chris/Angela/Sebastian/Jenna get all the other Malolos joining them at merge (Laurel, Donathan, Michael) for a majority. Now I think Laurel, Donathan, Michael, plus Libby are more likely to be on the Dominic side.

Lone Goat
Apr 16, 2003

When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.




I think you could work with Laurel and Donathan without keeping Libby and Bradley is way more trustworthy than her.

Oh well I guess we'll see.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Well, what he did was provide proof of concept that he'd vote with them against Naviti. I do feel actually voting together is a very good way to make an alliance real.

Contrast that to Michael's treatment, where he's been left alive and looped in perhaps on some votes, but never once seen a Malolo survive a single Tribal Council. You think Michael would really want to stick with Kellyn and Bradley at merge? If he had any choice, I doubt it, but now by doing this, Dominic might get a player like him over to their side, especially with supporting testimony from other Malolos.

We don't know where Donathan and Laurel would have gone after a Libby boot, but we do know Donathan was starting to bond with Chris a little, and that if Dominic is linked up with Bradley and Kellyn, that Michael and Jenna would be around to tell Laurel/Don that cracking the inner Naviti in that group is absolutely hopeless.

Truther Vandross
Jun 17, 2008

I don’t think anyone else wanted Bradley and at that point Dom risks being the only one trying to save the rear end of the hated guy. It can be the smarter move to keep Bradley but not the better move if Dom feels that keeping Bradley could cost him others.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Bradley was talking down and irritating everybody, including Domenick, and there's still half the game left to play.

Strategy is one thing, but if the guy is making you miserable, just go cut him. There are 12 other people to work with.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.

Fast Luck posted:

Well, what he did was provide proof of concept that he'd vote with them against Naviti. I do feel actually voting together is a very good way to make an alliance real.

Completely agreed. These are the sort of moves where you can build trust across tribe lines when you could have played it safe. These are important for the post merge game. That tribe isn't holding together. Domenick knows that better than anyone since he's got a cold war waging with Chris. That poo poo's getting hot as soon as they merge and he needs friends outside his tribe. Libby's someone who extended a hand to him earlier and then burned him so he shows some real trust and lack of pettiness by saving her here. And he had already made a connection with Donathan and Laurel and talked about working with them, and now Donathan's got some real trust that you can only build in Tribal Votes.

Chelsea too. She passed on Michael's appeal to flip earlier. That was probably the right move at the time but it also risked her being isolated with Navati. This reach across the idol seems necessary for her long term game.

Bradley sucks and was a lovely ally. It shouldn't be hard to justify his vote out. He wasn't even useful as a goat because he's gonna try and make a move down the line. He's a bigger threat post-merge and I rather risk a couple of Navati being mad at the chance of gaining some Mololo allies. Especially when if you're Domenick the people most likely to get mad are also the people most likely to be a problem with you vs Chris anyway.

The Bloop posted:

3 idols this episode. Can't wait for all the histrionics itt

Part of me wants imagines that the producers planned to end Ghost Island at the merge and got screwed by no one getting the right plays so they just dug everything up and buried it on the island only for Survivors to find them all in the same couple of days.

SLICK GOKU BABY posted:

Hmm, what if they did a season where the hidden immunity idols were just gigantic as gently caress and impossible to hide?

"Congratulations, you have found the Survivor Shipwreck Island Hidden Immunity Idol. You must carry this ship's wheel with you to tribal and use it when Jeff asks everyone if they would like to."

"Congratulations, you have found a clue to the Survivor Shipwreck Island Hidden Immunity Idol. The Hidden Immunity Island is a 5 foot mermaid bow buried 20 yards north of your camp. Get digging."

"Congratulations, you have found a clue to the Survivor Shipwreck Island Hidden Immunity Idol. See that big rear end rusted anchor on the beach? That's it. Good luck with that poo poo. Hahahahaha!"

Spergatory
Oct 28, 2012

ApplesandOranges posted:

Bradley was talking down and irritating everybody, including Domenick, and there's still half the game left to play.

Strategy is one thing, but if the guy is making you miserable, just go cut him. There are 12 other people to work with.

You can't win a million dollars if you get pulled from the game for physically assaulting another contestant, so if Bradley really is just that loving insufferable, then yes, boot his rear end, and do it now while he is cut off from most of his power base.

Bradley is of course trying to reframe everything in his exit interviews, as you do, saying that Dom felt threatened by him and was worried he would win the game. Which may or may not be true! But then he tries to get into saying he wasn't nearly as annoying as the edit showed him being and I'm just like... dude. Stephanie Johnson said, in basically every single one of her exit interviews, that she literally wanted to poison you while you were in the game together. Rob C brought up a couple of specific things he said and asked him why he said them, and Bradley just tried to laugh it off, saying he doesn't know why he said half of what wound up in the show.

Pssst.

Bradley.

Bradley.

:ssh:It's because you're a prick.:ssh:

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.

Bradley can't go on the show and say "My biggest problem is not being a prick because I'm usually a prick all the time and everyone hates me" and then when everyone on the show goes "he's a prick, I hate him" go "I wasn't really a prick, they were just afraid of me."

But, you know... he's a prick. Would you expect him not to try and spin it as a rhetorical victory for himself?

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Bradley also apparently doesn't like Donathan and used the phrase 'actionable intelligence', so I'm pretty happy to see him gone. He's like FigTails; entertaining enough villian, but he didn't overstay his welcome.

Interesting tidbit from his exit interviews thoughs:

"When Michael pulled out that idol [at the fourth Tribal Council], I really thought I was going home. What you didn't see is that I started crying. I was a blubbering mess. Kellyn switched the vote. We were voting for Michael, and she switched it to Brendan. When Michael said his idol could be played for two, we didn't believe him, but we figured if it did play for two, he would play one for himself and one for one of the girls. That's why it switched to Brendan."

So Michael did end up saving himself.

SLICK GOKU BABY
Jun 12, 2001

Hey Hey Let's Go! 喧嘩する
大切な物を protect my balls


STAC Goat posted:

"Congratulations, you have found the Survivor Shipwreck Island Hidden Immunity Idol. You must carry this ship's wheel with you to tribal and use it when Jeff asks everyone if they would like to."

Maybe something like, "Congratulations, you have found the clue to the hidden immunity idol. Your tribal banner that marks the beach is the immunity idol, carry it with you to tribal"

Then everyone is like why is he pulling out our flag banner and carrying it to tribal :confused:

Propaganda Machine
Jan 2, 2005

Truthiness!
The world needs the footage of Bradley crying like a spoiled child. I'm dead serious.

bbf2
Nov 22, 2007

"The White Shadow"

The Mighty Moltres posted:

Imagine you're a young art school grad, and you just scored your first big job - a set designer for Survivor! For the next few weeks you sew the tribe banners with the utmost care. You ensure each and every stitch is precise and perfect. Then you hang them, step back, and look proudly upon your work. Although you know the tribes will probably barely notice what you've done, you don't care. You're living your dream.
Then a few months later they burn one of your banners in half and stomp on it and call it cursed.


If I was the PA who made that tribe banner I would be stoked that so much primetime TV time was dedicated to my creation. Most of the time those things just hang around in the background unmentioned

Lone Goat
Apr 16, 2003

When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.




ApplesandOranges posted:

Bradley also apparently doesn't like Donathan and used the phrase 'actionable intelligence', so I'm pretty happy to see him gone. He's like FigTails; entertaining enough villian, but he didn't overstay his welcome.

To be fair, Bradley can't see the subtitles we get whenever Donathan talks.

Lone Goat fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Apr 6, 2018

Propaganda Machine
Jan 2, 2005

Truthiness!
According to him, Donathan sat out for like 20 minutes while James tried and failed to dive down 8 feet or whatever it was. Even the edit made me judge that behavior, but even if it was just ten minutes that's really bad.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
I can't remember, but could nobody sub in for either James or Donathan?

I'm not crazy about Donathan, but it's not like we haven't had people who needed a lot of encouragement in challenges before (see: Cirie).

Vernacular
Nov 29, 2004

Good points for sure, but Dom's current plan is predicated on two very questionable assumptions:

-Kellyn and Des won't be miffed by him voting out their closest ally and thus be more easily recruited into the Chris contingent, along with Michael
-Libby won't burn him again somewhere down the road

I mean, if Chelsea was really adamant about voting off Bradley, then yeah, Dom didn't really have a choice. But like, voting out a surefire ally, especially one with a few strong connections (Kellyn and Des) who would otherwise be kinda free agents, is always a risky move.

It makes me wonder about the possible cost/benefit analysis of Dom and Chelsea doing something like taking Bradley aside and trying to make him aware of how much of a dick he's being. Has something like that ever happened on Survivor? An intervention where an alliance has successfully rehabilitated a dysfunctional alliance member?

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Successful? Probably not. There are plenty of 'wake-up' calls in Survivor, but they're usually to flip someone (Aubry to Tai), a new motivation (Lisa), or as part of a move to vote them out right after (Erik, Brandon). I can't really think of any cases where someone's coached an ally member to be nicer. I think Dan in Worlds Apart tried to apologize to Shirin, except he Danned it up and was insufferable anyway.

Nexal
Apr 21, 2010

Moby - Extreme ways
Has the following play been tried out yet in any season?

Play: Have a good early bond with someone in pre- merge. Find idol with paper. Give paper to your buddy and tell him/her to make fake idol. Keep real one to yourself and thus this way your buddy can show the fake idol with paper to make people believe. You keep real idol. This way if swap happens to 3 tribes you can protect yourself with the idol and make your buddys fake idol also a tool to be used to convince people/ cause FUD.

clown shoes
Jul 17, 2004

Nothing but clowns down here.
I think a smart fake idol play would be to make a fake idol after finding a real idol that way if you get found out you can play the fake idol at tribal to throw off suspicion. You'd be safe at that tribal because even though it's a fake idol people would think it was real and expect you to play it, and you won't be voted out at that tribal because people know you have it. Regardless of whether they were going to vote you out or just flush out the idol, you won't get any votes at that tribal. After the fake idol is revealed and Jeff throws it in the fire the other players will think you were duped and start to suspect each other of possessing the real idol. At the next tribal council you can shock everyone by revealing that you had the real idol all along. If it's a scenario where all the votes were cast against you, which are then canceled out, your sole vote will give you all the power.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
I mean isn't that what Domenick did? Except that he has a motor mouth and can't play it well.

Nexal
Apr 21, 2010

Moby - Extreme ways

ApplesandOranges posted:

I mean isn't that what Domenick did? Except that he has a motor mouth and can't play it well.

If I recall correctly he didn't tell Chris that it was fake but that it was real. Yeah Dominick probably thouggt of this plan but didn't execute it well.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.

Vernacular posted:

Good points for sure, but Dom's current plan is predicated on two very questionable assumptions:

-Kellyn and Des won't be miffed by him voting out their closest ally and thus be more easily recruited into the Chris contingent, along with Michael
-Libby won't burn him again somewhere down the road

I mean, if Chelsea was really adamant about voting off Bradley, then yeah, Dom didn't really have a choice. But like, voting out a surefire ally, especially one with a few strong connections (Kellyn and Des) who would otherwise be kinda free agents, is always a risky move.
I think a big part of this equation is that if you're Dominick then you gotta be thinking might be "As soon as this merge happens Chris is coming for me and I'm going to have to hope my Navati originals choose me over him and have to pull in Mololos to get the numbers. Can I count on Bradley more than Libby to pick me over Chris? Can I trust on the majority of Navati votes even if stay loyal to Bradley?"

I think that's the key difference from the usual "vote out an ally and risk upsetting tribe mates" question. Dominick knows his tribe is already split with Chris. He knows it's just a matter of time before that line will be drawn and people will pick sides. So staying loyal to the tribe/alliance is kind of a hopeless venture. Especially since he's probably already lost Angela or Sebastian seems closer to Chris.

The other interesting wrinkle in this math is that despite Libby and Donathan being "Mololos" and Kellyn and Desiree being "Navatis" that actually hasn't been the case for most of the game. Dominick has spent more time with Donathan and Libby than Kellyn and Desiree. So it makes sense to gamble on trusting them more than the people he only barely knew.

It's a gamble for sure but Dominick knows he's going to be scrambling for votes as soon as the merge happens so he's gambling either way. The way I see it he gambled on the cards he can at least see.

Propaganda Machine
Jan 2, 2005

Truthiness!

ApplesandOranges posted:

Successful? Probably not. There are plenty of 'wake-up' calls in Survivor, but they're usually to flip someone (Aubry to Tai), a new motivation (Lisa), or as part of a move to vote them out right after (Erik, Brandon). I can't really think of any cases where someone's coached an ally member to be nicer. I think Dan in Worlds Apart tried to apologize to Shirin, except he Danned it up and was insufferable anyway.

It's moot if you buy Bradley's exit press, and I kind of do to a point. I think he was genuinely irritating to live with, but I also absolutely buy Dom wanting to take an early strike at a Brad/Kellyn power pair.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Nexal posted:

Has the following play been tried out yet in any season?

Play: Have a good early bond with someone in pre- merge. Find idol with paper. Give paper to your buddy and tell him/her to make fake idol. Keep real one to yourself and thus this way your buddy can show the fake idol with paper to make people believe. You keep real idol. This way if swap happens to 3 tribes you can protect yourself with the idol and make your buddys fake idol also a tool to be used to convince people/ cause FUD.
That's a good idea. It definitely hasn't been done on the US series.

clown shoes posted:

I think a smart fake idol play would be to make a fake idol after finding a real idol that way if you get found out you can play the fake idol at tribal to throw off suspicion. You'd be safe at that tribal because even though it's a fake idol people would think it was real and expect you to play it, and you won't be voted out at that tribal because people know you have it. Regardless of whether they were going to vote you out or just flush out the idol, you won't get any votes at that tribal. After the fake idol is revealed and Jeff throws it in the fire the other players will think you were duped and start to suspect each other of possessing the real idol. At the next tribal council you can shock everyone by revealing that you had the real idol all along. If it's a scenario where all the votes were cast against you, which are then canceled out, your sole vote will give you all the power.
This is a decent idea but don't forget about vote splits. If everyone thinks you have the idol, they could make sure to put the majority of votes on you to force you to play it, with back-up votes on someone else for when you do.

SLICK GOKU BABY
Jun 12, 2001

Hey Hey Let's Go! 喧嘩する
大切な物を protect my balls


Clearly the correct move if you find an idol is to just play it. Because the producers will just be lazy as gently caress and just throw it down in the woods somewhere and you can just go out and find it again.

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

Watching The Good Fight. The case of the week in episode 3 of season 2 is about a reality show, and there's a cute cameo :3:.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

SLICK GOKU BABY posted:

Clearly the correct move if you find an idol is to just play it. Because the producers will just be lazy as gently caress and just throw it down in the woods somewhere and you can just go out and find it again.

Well, we're seeing more and more people just letting desperate people go out to look for idols. What happened to the days of literally sitting on an idol so someone else couldn't get to it?

Heck, Kellyn and Desiree knew that Michael had played the Malolo idol, so there would likely be a fresh one out there.

Spergatory
Oct 28, 2012
1. Every single person on every beach is looking for an idol every single day. You generally aren't going to see the ones that aren't successful, because they don't matter.

2. There is a significant chance that whatever idol you might be seeking is currently inn somebody else's pocket. Playing an idol doesn't just put it back into play for you, it also puts it back out there for everybody else.

3. The game Kellyn is playing is incompatible with the "stalk him 24-7 to stop him from looking for an idol" strategy. Last season was much less forgivable because it was so late in the game and the lines were so clear. For Kellyn, her whole deal so far has been keeping her tribe strong and discouraging bonds between Us and Them. If you send someone to tail Michael all the time, he is automatically going to get tons of alone time with that person, and it's so early in the game that there's a non-zero chance he could overcome and erase the tribal lines she worked so hard to build.

Zesty
Jan 17, 2012

The Great Twist

ApplesandOranges posted:

Well, we're seeing more and more people just letting desperate people go out to look for idols. What happened to the days of literally sitting on an idol so someone else couldn't get to it?

and then people get mad when the idols don't do anything all game like in Game Changers.

Zesty
Jan 17, 2012

The Great Twist
https://twitter.com/RandyBailey1720/status/982748649418522624

SLICK GOKU BABY
Jun 12, 2001

Hey Hey Let's Go! 喧嘩する
大切な物を protect my balls


Someone should let him know he already quit his season of Survivor many years ago and he is back home.

alf_pogs
Feb 15, 2012


ApplesandOranges posted:

I actually doubt either of Chris or Dom is going to be the merge boot, there are too many factors here (Dom's legacy/idol, Chris having a decent shot at immunity). It might just hit one of the waysiders like Angela or Desiree.

i feel like my favourite Wendell is a good candidate for a merge boot.

i really hope the Chris vs Dom war lasts more than an episode, though.

Propaganda Machine
Jan 2, 2005

Truthiness!
I think Wendell is more of a decider than in danger at this point. He's a bit too perfect to win, but he's in a seriously safe position at the moment.

Big Taint
Oct 19, 2003

A long, simmering feud between Dom and Chris will probably be good for Wendell, I think both of them are dicky enough to alienate the middle, and Wendell will be crowned the Reasonable King.

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida

I hope Dom thinks he's safe and getting Chris out this week and doesn't play either immunity he has and he gets voted out with both of them in his pocket.

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ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
If Dom gets voted out I imagine 80% chance Wendell gets the Legacy, which puts him in an even better position.

Honestly I think the Malolos should all be safe for a round or two. The only one who'd really be in danger is Michael just because of his perceived threat level.

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