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School Nickname posted:Also, I looked up the Clint and Whitworth after another poster mentioned a lack of 40 tonners and I have to ask, why are some stock mechs hilariously under-gunned compared to others in the same weight class? In 3025, there's a balancing act. Armor vs Weapons (and heat efficiency) vs Speed. In 3025, 'Mechs on the low end of their weight group tend to be underarmored and "under gunned" in favor of speed because they can pack bigger engines for cheaper while 'Mechs on the high end of the weight group tend to be heavily armed or armored but trade speed to do it. In this case, the Whitworth and Clint are notable for being odd ducks. The Whitworth is a Trebuchet built 15 tons lighter, while the Clint's Autocannon/10 is a huge weight investment for a relatively speedy 'Mech. The reason they both come across looking relatively weak is because the medium weight class is the one with the most extreme variance from the lighter end to the heavier end, since you've got the Cicada on one side (which is as fast as the Locust and about as heavily armed) and on the other end you can bump into 'Mechs that can semi-reasonably pack an AC/20 with enough armor to get it into position to use it. The Whitworth and Clint are both trying to be 50-55 tonners and they're just too light to do a reasonable job of it. So yeah, if you're talking "under-armed" 'Mechs, anything in the 40/45 ton range tends to look relatively bad unless they're a heavy energy boat like the Phoenix Hawk. You can bump into the same problem again at 80 tons, where the 'Mechs are still trying to be heavies but aren't really getting anything out of being able to mount that bigger engine (aka the Charger Problem). It can be helpful to look at the weight brackets this way: 20-35 [light] 40-45 [heavy light] 50-55 [light heavy] 60-75 [heavy] 80-85 [fast assault] (These are the assaults that can keep up with the slower heavies (the Awesome's a notable exception)) 90-100 [juggernaut assault] (the Banshee and Cyclops both try to be fast assaults and really suffer for it, in this bracket you really want slow and heavily armored like the Atlas, you're not getting anything out of a big engine except less guns) PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 13:02 on Apr 6, 2018 |
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Apr 6, 2018 12:56
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Do we know if the Highlander will come with the special Death-from-above legs?
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Apr 6, 2018 14:00
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Magnetic North posted:I love Mech 3's opening but it can't compare to how mindblowing Mech 2's was at the time: I think that's actually from a Star Wars special edition VHS.
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Apr 6, 2018 14:10
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Aramoro posted:Do we know if the Highlander will come with the special Death-from-above legs? I don't know about "come with" but on Cohh's stream we saw several gyro replacements that increased melee damage or reduced damage from DFA.
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Apr 6, 2018 14:13
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Gyro augments for DFA, actuator augments for increased melee damage, support weapons to add to melee attacks; I like how actually punching a gently caress in the face is now a viable option.
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Apr 6, 2018 14:22
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One of the first things I plan in doing with my lance is converting the Shadow Hawk into a short range brawler with a pilot that specializes in Pilot and Guts skills. One thing I've noticed with the people playing the game lately is that they are super cautious. I understand why, to keep damage down, but I'm almost positive if they had been more aggressive they'd take less damage in the long run. Can't loving wait to play this game. Its killing me.
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Apr 6, 2018 14:24
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Aramoro posted:
My canon Madcat is the one sitting by those fuel tanks in MechCommander's second or third mission. LRM racks, ER PPCs, light lasers. The first time I played it I got pristine salvage on that sucker, and for a decade I assumed that was scripted to happen, to help carry you through the early game.
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Apr 6, 2018 15:08
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Kind of starting to worry that HBS overdid it with boosting Autocannons. I understand that AC/2 and AC/5 were a bit of a joke in tabletop but there is a whole topic on paradox forums where people discuss how PPC is pretty much not worth using because AC/5 in this game is just 5 damage less, similar range, and will weight less after accounting for heat sinks and ammo. Granted that it doesn't help that HBS version of PPC runs 33% hotter than tabletop. Aaaand now I'm even more ticked off at Harmony Gold because this Marauder looks fabulous.
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Apr 6, 2018 15:20
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Don't get autocannons poo poo on now. Them finally being worth their weight is a blessing. Energy weapons don't need to rule everything. 
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Apr 6, 2018 15:23
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Malek Deneith posted:Kind of starting to worry that HBS overdid it with boosting Autocannons. I understand that AC/2 and AC/5 were a bit of a joke in tabletop but there is a whole topic on paradox forums where people discuss how PPC is pretty much not worth using because AC/5 in this game is just 5 damage less, similar range, and will weight less after accounting for heat sinks and ammo. Granted that it doesn't help that HBS version of PPC runs 33% hotter than tabletop. ACs also carry ammo which, if it blows, is a big loving deal. Even though everyone is carrying CASE in HBS's version of 3025 losing an ammo rack is still going to be catastrophic damage. Plus, that poo poo can run out. It's easy to say that since you need fewer heat sinks you can just throw in more ammo, and that might be optimal for skirmishes, but from what I've seen of the missions they previewed short skirmishes aren't going to be the standard. If your AC heavy mech is out of ammo 3/4ths through a mission it's a huge liability at the end. In the end I think it's actually going to be a choice between, for example, an AC10 and a PPC. There will be pros and cons and you won't have one blanket answer for it. This is a good thing, because as TT rules stood there was really no good reason to ever carry an AC10 over a PPC unless you were in some very serious heat problem territory. Well, and minimum range. But frankly if you're looking at building a brawler the AC10 wasn't really your go-to anyway and it's not that hard to kepe an enemy mech outside of that 3 hex min range for PPCs.
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Apr 6, 2018 15:25
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Malek Deneith posted:Kind of starting to worry that HBS overdid it with boosting Autocannons. I understand that AC/2 and AC/5 were a bit of a joke in tabletop but there is a whole topic on paradox forums where people discuss how PPC is pretty much not worth using because AC/5 in this game is just 5 damage less, similar range, and will weight less after accounting for heat sinks and ammo. Granted that it doesn't help that HBS version of PPC runs 33% hotter than tabletop.
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Apr 6, 2018 15:38
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Also anyone who considers enough heat sinks to run a PPC heat neutral being mandatory is being dumb. You don't need to fire it every turn. Also the planets/maps in this game have differing heat modifiers anyway.
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Apr 6, 2018 15:42
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Also anyone who considers enough heat sinks to run a PPC heat neutral being mandatory is being dumb. You don't need to fire it every turn. Also the planets/maps in this game have differing heat modifiers anyway. The ideal number of heat sinks is enough to fire dual PPC's and not instantly shutdown. Then run away for a bit and do it again later.
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Apr 6, 2018 15:47
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Please keep in mind that the majority of the posters on the Paradox forums are insane crybabies that dont want their canon changed ONE loving IOTA for some bizzaro reason. Speaking of Battletech grognards, early in the beta period of MWO years ago I argued on the official forum that the game shouldn't charge you for repairing your mech and restocking ammo after a match, because that's the kind of feel-bad money sink you should avoid in your multiplayer game and also penalises ballistics and missiles in an unfun metagame way. Most of the replies were calling me a crybaby noob or telling me to go back to Call of Duty because MWO was a simulation, not an "arcade game", and so realism should take precedence over fun
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Apr 6, 2018 16:08
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School Nickname posted:I've played MW2 using dosbox and it runs perfectly. Bit of a pain to set up though. I played mw2, 3 and 4 with a Microsoft sidewinder pro force feedback joystick.  Also, Timberwolf supremacy 
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Apr 6, 2018 16:15
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I remember the MWO crowd being really angry when they were told that the controls of MechAssault were far closer to canon than the overly complicated controls of classic Mechwarrior games, as the books and lore state over and over how most things can be done via a single joystick, and all the fine details are done via the stupid helmet. That said, Battletech lore isn't very consistent and Battletech fans are more than willing to cherry pick the books and sources that fit their vision of the universe and get furious if they encounter things that contradict those ideas, no matter if they are in-canon things they don't like (Tetatae, actual Mech Controls) or gameplay changes of any kind, no matter if for the better or the worse, from what they are used to.
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Apr 6, 2018 16:22
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peer posted:Most of the replies were calling me a crybaby noob or telling me to go back to Call of Duty because MWO was a simulation, not an "arcade game", and so realism should take precedence over fun There's a reason Tabletop has a (usually dumb) rule for everything, and it's this sort of people. The people who cry "verisimilitude" and want special rules for how long it takes to cook ramen on a BattleMech heat sink then ignore the rule when it gets made because it doesn't match the house rule they've been using for half a decade. These people are usually boring and unfun to actually play with.
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Apr 6, 2018 16:24
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peer posted:Speaking of Battletech grognards, early in the beta period of MWO years ago I argued on the official forum that the game shouldn't charge you for repairing your mech and restocking ammo after a match, because that's the kind of feel-bad money sink you should avoid in your multiplayer game and also penalises ballistics and missiles in an unfun metagame way. Most of the replies were calling me a crybaby noob or telling me to go back to Call of Duty because MWO was a simulation, not an "arcade game", and so realism should take precedence over fun And then they got the 'precedence over fun' game that they wanted!
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Apr 6, 2018 16:27
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Feindfeuer posted:I remember the MWO crowd being really angry when they were told that the controls of MechAssault were far closer to canon than the overly complicated controls of classic Mechwarrior games, as the books and lore state over and over how most things can be done via a single joystick, and all the fine details are done via the stupid helmet. That said, Battletech lore isn't very consistent and Battletech fans are more than willing to cherry pick the books and sources that fit their vision of the universe and get furious if they encounter things that contradict those ideas, no matter if they are in-canon things they don't like (Tetatae, actual Mech Controls) or gameplay changes of any kind, no matter if for the better or the worse, from what they are used to. Most things in the classic Mechwarrior games COULD be done with a single joystick, though? I played Mechwarrior 2 and 3 with an old first run Sidewinder and that thing had like 4 buttons and a hat-switch and throttle slider. I think I had a Thrustmaster stick by the time of MW4 and while that had a few more buttons around the base, it still wasn't "overly complicated".
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Apr 6, 2018 16:47
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Zaodai posted:Most things in the classic Mechwarrior games COULD be done with a single joystick, though? I played Mechwarrior 2 and 3 with an old first run Sidewinder and that thing had like 4 buttons and a hat-switch and throttle slider. I think I had a Thrustmaster stick by the time of MW4 and while that had a few more buttons around the base, it still wasn't "overly complicated". Anything less than a full Steel Battalion is a betrayal to these people.
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Apr 6, 2018 16:51
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DiHK posted:I played mw2, 3 and 4 with a Microsoft sidewinder pro force feedback joystick. Mechwarrior on the Sidewinder Pro Force Feedback was awesome. You could feel each step a mech would make. When you fired missiles it would rumble like crazy. If you got hit by a Gauss slug it would push your torso (and the joystick) in the correct direction. That poo poo was cool.
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Apr 6, 2018 16:55
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Malek Deneith posted:Kind of starting to worry that HBS overdid it with boosting Autocannons. I understand that AC/2 and AC/5 were a bit of a joke in tabletop but there is a whole topic on paradox forums where people discuss how PPC is pretty much not worth using because AC/5 in this game is just 5 damage less, similar range, and will weight less after accounting for heat sinks and ammo. Granted that it doesn't help that HBS version of PPC runs 33% hotter than tabletop. PPCs cause a to-hit penalty to all weapons on the hit enemy and ACs have refire penalties, ammo limits and ammo that explodes. Plus it's not like ACs and PPCs are interchangeable - a Mech having hardpoints for one does not necessarily have the hardpoints for the other.
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Apr 6, 2018 17:09
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Just want to get a Catapult C1 and blast some fools. Also, Tatatae dlc when?
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Apr 6, 2018 17:11
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I got my first joystick in a combo box with Mechwarrior 3 It was a good joystick for a good game
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Apr 6, 2018 17:18
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Speaking of battletech pubbies, any old WoL members remember Metro? Even though we barely did anything, we ruined Battletech forever in his eyes. I wish we still had the old WoL wiki still around, the mountain of funny stories and pubbie tears contained within were great.
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Apr 6, 2018 17:22
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Back Hack posted:Speaking of battletech pubbies, any old WoL members remember Metro? Even though we barely did anything, we ruined Battletech forever in his eyes.
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Apr 6, 2018 17:29
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School Nickname posted:Two LRM20s + two ERPPCs baby! Worked pretty much perfectly outside the trials and one mission where you start with a Warhawk in your face. This is uncanny. How many rolled with double LRMs plus double PPCs on the mad dog in MW2?
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Apr 6, 2018 18:30
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Aramoro posted:Anything less than a full Steel Battalion is a betrayal to these people. I'm only half joking, there are people out there who will unironically disparage the anime robots that BT's original popularity (and current lawsuits) were built upon because... they're slightly curvier? Nor does it surprise me that Cohh had to specifically call out people who don't get how twitch/streaming and word-of-mouth popularity work, because I still find people on the tabletop forums who sign their posts at the end like they're still on usenet. No wonder fans act like they are behind the times when they think there have been no new developments in the internet in the past 25 years.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:22
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A fair warning for those of you who haven't pre-ordered the game yet: GOG has a sweet deal running right the gently caress now where you get Shadowrun Returns for free if you pre-order Battletech. This of course means you can play one sweet game while you're waiting for the second one to release. Since Steam doesn't have that deal, your should decide accordingly.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:53
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I will never forget Metro. Trolling him was a highlight of playing MWO in the beta. Not like we had to do much, the guy's ego was larger than life, he literally said, "I AM House Liao!" when we told him just because he wrote couple of fan fiction about House Liao, doesn't mean he legally owns it.
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Apr 6, 2018 20:14
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Back Hack posted:Not like we had to do much, the guy's ego was larger than life, he literally said, "I AM House Liao!" when we told him just because he wrote couple of fan fiction about House Liao, doesn't mean he legally owns it. Oh THAT guy, right.
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Apr 6, 2018 20:17
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I just hope this does well so we'll get a vehicle-DLC down the line, so i can reinforce my lance of Urban Mechs with some Po-Tanks.
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Apr 6, 2018 20:49
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Back Hack posted:I wish we still had the old WoL wiki still around, the mountain of funny stories and pubbie tears contained within were great. 
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Apr 6, 2018 21:00
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Given that a goon is the design lead I fully expect tetatae as an option. But combined with the fact she is an excellent dev and doesn't want to ruin her game, I will settle for it being a joke April Fools Day DLC.
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Apr 6, 2018 21:10
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Aramoro posted:Anything less than a full Steel Battalion is a betrayal to these people. This is how I played Mechwarrior 4: Mercenaries and I loved every giant nerd second of it.
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Apr 6, 2018 21:24
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Sky Shadowing posted:Given that a goon is the design lead I fully expect tetatae as an option. But combined with the fact she is an excellent dev and doesn't want to ruin her game, I will settle for it being a joke April Fools Day DLC. Squawk 
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Apr 6, 2018 21:26
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what is tetatae?
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Apr 6, 2018 21:41
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OB_Juan posted:Also, Tatatae dlc when? We could pull together a Tetatae mod pack that replaces all the portraits with kakapo.  
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Apr 6, 2018 21:44
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Pharnakes posted:what is tetatae? You have much to learn, young bird warrior.
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Apr 6, 2018 21:49
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DeepThrobble posted:That would require acknowledging a non-Battletech mech IP from Japan, which is heresy. Gundams (and Japanese mecha which mostly springs from Gundam) are lame because they are avatars of the pilot rather than stompy deathbot weapon platforms. My opinion is correct, okay?
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