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I feel like the best way to end up with the hilarity of early-mid Balance is to treat the game like a physics simulation rather than a somewhat more interactive visual novel.
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Apr 12, 2018 20:13
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Pollyanna posted:I feel like the best way to end up with the hilarity of early-mid Balance is to treat the game like a physics simulation rather than a somewhat more interactive visual novel. D-dungeon boys..?
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Apr 12, 2018 20:17
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Not Operator posted:D-dungeon boys..? With less Nick, yes. It might also be a state of mind thing, I think that the McElroys settled into a reactive method of playing the games due to mid-to-late Balance and they seem less experimental and curious than they used to be.
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Apr 12, 2018 20:19
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Here's an excerpt from Amnesty Ep 5:Griffin posted:As you come to, you see a black Imperial Crown Coupe wrapped around a tree. Its engine is sputtering pathetically as smoke is pouring out from behind its crumpled hood, and in this moment, in the past - you forget where you are, it's night - you remember that you've just completed the biggest job of your career. The trunk of the Imperial is loaded with your haul, though you assume some of it was probably damaged in the crash. In the driver seat of this Imperial Crown Coupe is your accomplice, who you can see is breathing but lying unconscious, splayed out on the airbag that now lays deflated on the dashboard. You're on a country road somewhere, not too dissimilar from the one you're driving on in present day, and further down this crooked country road you hear police sirens speeding in your direction. What did you do? Clint posted:I'm going to try to wake up the accomplice. Griffin posted:Uh, okay. The door on the driver's side is kind of crumpled in, and you couldn't seem to get it open - the latch mechanism is just completely busted. Clint posted:Welp, sorry old friend. I'm going to run back to the trunk and just stuff my pockets with as much of the stuff as I can. There's jewelry, there's bric-a-brac, there's some Hummel figurines, which is kind of a sweet touch I think - Travis (or Justin, I can't tell) posted:The Hummel figurines are probably broken. Clint posted:No, no! I know how to pack stolen goods! Griffin posted:No, they're surprisingly sturdy. Clint posted:I fill my pockets, and I gotta run into the woods. Griffin posted:Alright, that's what we see, we see Ned go to the window, and try to get the door open, is unable to do so, and apologizes to his accomplice before running to the back of the car, grabbing everything he can as these sirens are getting closer and closer, and then he dashes off into the woods with one last look over his shoulder before disappearing into the night. It's not as obvious in text as it is in audio, but this is very lopsided. Griffin ends up describing the grand majority of the scene without giving Clint a chance to look around and discover things on his own - he tells him the accomplice is out cold, tells him some of his haul is destroyed, tells him that sirens are coming towards him, and narrates exactly what happens after Clint says what amounts to "I go here and here". The most interesting part of this scene, the description of the goods and the others riffing on that, are a relatively small part but where the most personality and dynamics shine through. That's the good stuff, but unfortunately it's minor and takes a back seat to the narration. He's deciding a lot about the world for his players, without really giving them a chance to affect it. Especially when right after this, he asks Clint to roll, and then describes an entire driving sequence. It's not really Clint doing the cool stuff, it's Clint rolling and then Griffin describing the cool stuff that happens. It just doesn't feel very cooperative. I don't feel like there's collaboration on the events that play out or on the world around them, which happened a lot during early-mid Balance and started to peter out somewhat towards the end. I'm a little concerned about Season 2, but I gotta finish this episode plus the new one, so maybe I'm assuming too much.
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Apr 12, 2018 23:04
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The new episode starts with a monologue and then half an hour of the characters doing flashback scenes by themselves with griffin.
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Apr 12, 2018 23:49
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Tears In A Vial posted:The new episode starts with a monologue and then half an hour of the characters doing flashback scenes by themselves with griffin. To set up what's happened for two months between episodes, and they give no reason to assume they'll split up again once they've gotten together half way through the episode.
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Apr 12, 2018 23:51
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I'll give it a listen, but I don't think I'll be following Amnesty after ep 6.
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Apr 13, 2018 00:04
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Poor Miserable Gurgi posted:To set up what's happened for two months between episodes, and they give no reason to assume they'll split up again once they've gotten together half way through the episode. I guess. I didn't get that far.
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Apr 13, 2018 00:06
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Poor Miserable Gurgi posted:To set up what's happened for two months between episodes, and they give no reason to assume they'll split up again once they've gotten together half way through the episode. Still a lovely start.
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Apr 13, 2018 00:09
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Just wanting to get ahead of anyone getting too upset before they listen to it. It was a slow start, but a lot of fun interaction after the ad break. The rabbit also does not appear, this episode.
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Apr 13, 2018 00:15
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Ariong posted:I think unearned is a fantastic word for it. I really didn't mind Balance becoming more on-rails and story focused toward the end because I was so invested in the characters and the story that I was happy to be immersed in it. Starting this arc in that same mode felt like starting a tv show on episode six. Take that big dramatic letter from Momma at the end for example. If this was the end of the third or fourth story of the Amnesty arc, I probably would have found something like that very compelling. Now it's just like... uh, okay? Is this not the sort of thing that Momma normally does? Who knows! I found this post, and it really captures a lot of my feelings. Starting ep 6. Let's see if this is good.
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Apr 13, 2018 00:17
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The opening "monologue" is a loving 2 minute long cold open it's not really a big deal
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Apr 13, 2018 00:27
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i will absolutely thank travis to god though for toning down audrey and not forcing in dr. randomness this episode
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Apr 13, 2018 00:28
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This episode was boring as hell, I'm sorry. This isn't interesting.
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Apr 13, 2018 00:47
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Okay cool, can that be the last of your long series of posts about how the podcast just isn’t good anymore? I think we get it
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Apr 13, 2018 00:52
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Yeah no discussion allowed
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Apr 13, 2018 01:02
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Colonel Whitey posted:Okay cool, can that be the last of your long series of posts about how the podcast just isn’t good anymore? I think we get it He's not wrong
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Apr 13, 2018 01:10
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If someone has something new or interesting to say then go for it but if it’s just a rehash of the same tired complaints and declarations like “it’s boring as hell” or “lovely start” then maybe consider not posting, yeah I’m aware posts about posts also suck so that’s all I’ll say about it.
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Apr 13, 2018 01:13
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On the complete opposite of the spectrum, Not Another D&D Podcast is like 90% random bullshitting over each other and not much actually happens. Disappointing. EDIT: Okay, "I rub mushrooms on myself and from my hand a mushroom is born and I blow it at him like I'm blowing a kiss" is pretty great. EDIT 2: Man, I just can't get into anything that isn't the THB. Maybe I need to take a break. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Apr 13, 2018 |
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Apr 13, 2018 01:36
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I ate a pepperoni roll in honor of the beginning of this new arc. Really, it does sound like they listened to criticism, with Griffin's assurances that the one-on-ones would only last half of the episode, as well as Travis inserting himself into the background of a scene to get a little more interaction. And I really can't get enough of their WV references. I'm tentatively optimistic.
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Apr 13, 2018 02:05
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Pollyanna posted:This episode was boring as hell, I'm sorry. This isn't interesting. Did you listen to Dust? Dust was good. Colonel Whitey posted:If someone has something new or interesting to say then go for it but if it’s just a rehash of the same tired complaints and declarations like “it’s boring as hell” or “lovely start” then maybe consider not posting, yeah Still a lovely post. Torgover posted:I ate a pepperoni roll in honor of the beginning of this new arc. Same, honestly. I still think instead of taking up half the episode the "what have you been up to stuff" should have just been a quick thing the characters explained to each other with the episode starting with them already in a group, but once they finally did get together things picked up nicely. Space Cadet Omoly fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Apr 13, 2018 |
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Apr 13, 2018 02:12
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Is there anything to be lost by skipping forward to the interaction bit?
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Apr 13, 2018 02:17
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Tears In A Vial posted:Is there anything to be lost by skipping forward to the interaction bit? not really, other than the duck newton jump kick goof.
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Apr 13, 2018 02:18
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I want to offer a counter-point to this. Not that I don't think some of it is valid criticism but I feel like people lean way too hard sometimes on how Griffin's doing this "the wrong way" or whatever. Everyone always seems to ignore all the times that Griffin goes "so tell me what you're doing" or "describe how you're going to do this" and lets the players set stuff up, then embellishes that with extra context and description and gives them something to bounce off of further. It happens quite a bit! Hell, that was sort of the whole point of the finale where he basically gave them free reign to handle the monster how they saw fit and painted the picture further from there. I think there's this assumption that Clint/Travis/Justin WANT to do these descriptive parts on their own and Griffin is like, wresting control of that, but I don't think that's really been the case. Maybe with Travis from time to time if he's got something he really wants to go in on, but Griffin seems to allow him that when it happens. Otherwise the players seem to prefer giving some general stuff and letting Griffin run with it, and save more of their creative input for the character banter and goofs and stuff. There's obviously been a bit of an issue with Amnesty and not having as much time for goofs, and while I haven't listened to ep 6 yet I think a lot of those problems were due to the restrictions of the mini-arc and I'm interested to see if the longer, more spread-out format allows some better opportunities for that. I guess my main point is that, to me this whole thing still seems pretty collaborative, it's just the players have different levels of comfortableness with how detailed they want their part of the storytelling to be vs what Griffin does, and they just sort of roll with that and this is how it comes out. I think if any of them actually had a problem with it, things would have changed by now. Maybe it's more of an issue of the ratio of goofs vs serious story stuff, since I see a lot of comparisons to earlier Balance stuff. On the other hand I enjoy Griffin's storytelling as much as I like the goofs, so I'm probably more tolerant of the podcast leaning more one way or the other from time to time. At any rate, I wouldn't fault people for skipping out on it now and coming back later, but I feel like some people get pretty negative about it sometimes and that's why people on the opposite end react a little harshly. Anyway that's just my opinion as a dumb Amnesty-liker.
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Apr 13, 2018 11:06
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cathead posted:I haven't listened to ep 6 yet You're answering criticism for a thing you haven't listened to.
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Apr 13, 2018 13:30
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I’m not saying he’s doing it wrong, you can’t play an RPG wrong if all the players are into it. It’s just not a format I find interesting. I want to see players goof off of each other and grow their characters and the people and places around them with the help of the GM’s storytelling abilities and management of a living, mutable world. This implies that there is a lot to discover about the world, its inhabitants, and its history that not even the GM knows about yet. On the other hand, it seems like the world of Amnesty has pretty much been determined in advance - I don’t see how things would have changed if Ned had run over and killed Barclay instead of the bobcat, or if Aubrey had controlled her first flame well enough to prevent the stage from catching fire or it hadn’t manifested at all. But I can very clearly see the effects of successfully talking down Gundren Rockseeker and saving Phandalin, thereby saving many people, having a more successful mission, and not having an obvious way to tap into the Astral Plane in Story and Song. It’s like...sure, the story of Amnesty hasn’t been completely told yet, but it feels like it’s already been decided, and there’s really nothing to discover. That’s fine for a book or a radio play, but it doesn’t make for a dynamic and intriguing RPG in my opinion, so I don’t get much enjoyment out of it. I just miss the goofs, man. Not just the laughs, but the sense of discovery, the sense of mutability, and the ability to affect the world on an individual level. Judge Schnoopy posted:You're answering criticism for a thing you haven't listened to. Yeah - episode 6 of Amnesty is the same as 1~5 by my reckoning, and maybe even worse. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Apr 13, 2018 |
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Apr 13, 2018 13:44
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Yeah, you and everyone else for the last year.
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Apr 13, 2018 13:47
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pollyanna is making more thoughtful and specific complaints than is the norm for this thread, so the dismissiveness is kinda lame
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Apr 13, 2018 13:49
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It's just more a bit annoying that this subject is dominating the conversation in the thread AGAIN and it seems that how much we hate The Adventure Zone is all we fuckin' talk about anymore.
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Apr 13, 2018 13:52
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Waffleman_ posted:It's just more a bit annoying that this subject is dominating the conversation in the thread AGAIN and it seems that how much we hate The Adventure Zone is all we fuckin' talk about anymore. Would you rather debate the merits and quality of maxfun ads? Or how bout that guys voice, huh!?!
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Apr 13, 2018 13:56
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Pollyanna posted:I’m not saying he’s doing it wrong, you can’t play an RPG wrong if all the players are into it. It’s just not a format I find interesting. I want to see players goof off of each other and grow their characters and the people and places around them with the help of the GM’s storytelling abilities and management of a living, mutable world. This implies that there is a lot to discover about the world, its inhabitants, and its history that not even the GM knows about yet. On the other hand, it seems like the world of Amnesty has pretty much been determined in advance - I don’t see how things would have changed if Ned had run over and killed Barclay instead of the bobcat, or if Aubrey had controlled her first flame well enough to prevent the stage from catching fire or it hadn’t manifested at all. But I can very clearly see the effects of successfully talking down Gundren Rockseeker and saving Phandalin, thereby saving many people, having a more successful mission, and not having an obvious way to tap into the Astral Plane in Story and Song. I miss the jokes too, but they did successfully talk down Gundren but Phandalin got destroyed anyway, if you wanna talk railroading
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Apr 13, 2018 14:00
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At least it's some variety!!
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Apr 13, 2018 14:00
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Listening to the episode now and lol I love Ned so much.
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Apr 13, 2018 14:01
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Fine, whatever. I’ll just listen to Dust and move on.
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Apr 13, 2018 14:12
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cathead posted:I think there's this assumption that Clint/Travis/Justin WANT to do these descriptive parts on their own and Griffin is like, wresting control of that People keep framing complaints like this, but I haven't seen a single one actually say it. No one's saying Griffin is somehow becoming an ego maniac that ones to steal center stage. People are just saying this new super narrative heavy style is really boring, even if everyone involved is all for it. Raserys posted:I miss the jokes too, but they did successfully talk down Gundren but Phandalin got destroyed anyway, if you wanna talk railroading Yeah but at least when that happened it was a direct consequence of something they did earlier (saving the orc kid) it wasn't just a fire happening because the trick went too well, exactly as it would have if the trick had gone poorly because there absolutely had to be a fire either way.
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Apr 13, 2018 14:14
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i think phandalin was always going to be destroyed, regardless of them saving that kid tbh.
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Apr 13, 2018 14:18
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Waffleman_ posted:It's just more a bit annoying that this subject is dominating the conversation in the thread AGAIN and it seems that how much we hate The Adventure Zone is all we fuckin' talk about anymore. TAZ has ongoing and long-running discussion on its direction and management and is continually evolving. MBMBAM et al have settled into a formula that works and is interesting. And as people continue to get into TAZ, which is one of the biggest draws to the McElroy empire, they will naturally comment on it. This should not be strange and unexpected. Roobanguy posted:i think phandalin was always going to be destroyed, regardless of them saving that kid tbh. Maybe, but the potential for major change is there, whereas Barclay dying instead wouldn’t really change anything.
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Apr 13, 2018 14:20
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You don't know that and I don't know that, speculating on whether or not something seems like it could have made a difference is pointless
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Apr 13, 2018 14:34
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Waffleman_ posted:It's just more a bit annoying that this subject is dominating the conversation in the thread AGAIN and it seems that how much we hate The Adventure Zone is all we fuckin' talk about anymore. Like Chilean miners rising from the depths...
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Apr 13, 2018 14:55
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Raserys posted:You don't know that and I don't know that, speculating on whether or not something seems like it could have made a difference is pointless The point is, phandalin being destroyed was fun and interesting, regardless of if it was always going to happen. The try-hard nature of the players, the rolling making it look like they were going to be successful, the call back to the orc kid, the goofs of a religious cleric shouting 'i knew we should have killed that kid' and the revelation of the power of the gauntlet that really wasnt expected among the jokes. It all worked, it was exciting and funny at the same time. It really doesn't matter that the boys could never have prevented it. Amnesty feeling 'prewritten' is more than just the plot points being stuck in the ground. It feels like every single interaction, every single scene, every little item is written out in a notebook that is being closely monitored for accuracy. And personally I feel like the solo scenes are designed to keep that script from going off the rails, which makes it incredibly dull and uninteresting.
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Apr 13, 2018 14:55
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