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gourdcaptain posted:Unfortunately, the side effect of discussing 80's OVAs like this is they're not exactly going to say anything explicitly, so this is how it read to me. There's a _lot_ of stuff like that in Gaiden, and there's three arcs of anime original content that basically are the anime team's Reinhard and Kircheis fluff either platonic or romantic. (Also, one of these, The Duelist, has Reinhard fight what I can only describe as a redcoat ninja and go on a space Wikipedia dive and think Japanese swords are cool and want to learn a sweet finishing move. Kircheis is clearly somewhere between bemused and wanting to facepalm.) I'll just note that I don't really read Kircheis/Annerose from the series, but that's more in their weird standoffishness and some other stuff. Annerose is an extremely weird and standoffish character who is treated less like a person and more as some unapproachable virgin martyr figure who exemplifies a time in Reinhard's life when he was happy and fulfilled instead of restless, empty, and yearning for conquest and domination, so it's hard to read normal human interactions from her in the OVA. Even her interactions with Hilda later on are super strange and surreal compared to how natural most of the other characters' dialogue is. That said, Siegfried's crush on Annerose is pretty explicit, in my opinion. When Reinhard and Sieg first meet as kids and Annerose first looks at Sieg and asks him to be Reinhard's friend, Sieg reacts like he's been hit by a taser. He repeatedly flashes back to this moment whenever he doubts Reinhard's methods to shore up his own resolve, and I think that one of the very last things Sieg says to Reinhard before he dies being "Tell Annerose I kept my promise" says a lot. Annerose throwing herself into a self-imposed exile after Siegfried's death due to a sense of guilt that she sent Sieg to his death(which she states to Hilda) also implies that she's aware of the hold that her off-handed request had over him and thus aware of the feelings he almost assuredly harbored for her, though it doesn't necessarily imply that she returned those same feelings.
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Apr 18, 2018 20:31
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shes treated almost like godess
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Apr 18, 2018 20:37
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Kanos posted:That said, Siegfried's crush on Annerose is pretty explicit, in my opinion. When Reinhard and Sieg first meet as kids and Annerose first looks at Sieg and asks him to be Reinhard's friend, Sieg reacts like he's been hit by a taser. He repeatedly flashes back to this moment whenever he doubts Reinhard's methods to shore up his own resolve, and I think that one of the very last things Sieg says to Reinhard before he dies being "Tell Annerose I kept my promise" says a lot. Annerose throwing herself into a self-imposed exile after Siegfried's death due to a sense of guilt that she sent Sieg to his death(which she states to Hilda) also implies that she's aware of the hold that her off-handed request had over him and thus aware of the feelings he almost assuredly harbored for her, though it doesn't necessarily imply that she returned those same feelings. I always thought it was a mix of guilt and being so pissed off at Reinhard that his power hungry ambitions got Sieg killed.
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Apr 18, 2018 20:43
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TheKingofSprings posted:I always thought it was a mix of guilt and being so pissed off at Reinhard that his power hungry ambitions got Sieg killed. When she's talking to Hilda, her lines are: "I've taken Siegfried Kircheis' life, and even everything other than that. He died, while I live on. I am a sinful woman." She never states a criticism to Reinhard's life goals or ambitions, and the imagery in the scene is very strong - an angelic Reinhard holding Siegfried's hand and flying into the sky with him. Reinhard is a flawed angel. If she was truly pissed at Reinhard, it's doubtful that she would have acquiesced to Hilda's request that she allow Reinhard to post guards around her house for the sake of Reinhard's peace of mind.
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Apr 18, 2018 20:54
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I just want to say I appreciate this discussion.
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Apr 18, 2018 20:57
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Kanos posted:When she's talking to Hilda, her lines are: "I've taken Siegfried Kircheis' life, and even everything other than that. He died, while I live on. I am a sinful woman." She never states a criticism to Reinhard's life goals or ambitions, and the imagery in the scene is very strong - an angelic Reinhard holding Siegfried's hand and flying into the sky with him. Reinhard is a flawed angel. That was years later, it's possible she cooled off a little bit about it with time.
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Apr 18, 2018 21:00
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Kanos posted:If she was truly pissed at Reinhard, it's doubtful that she would have acquiesced to Hilda's request that she allow Reinhard to post guards around her house for the sake of Reinhard's peace of mind. That, and Hilda's peace of mind because Reinhard's already unstable as hell with just Kircheis dead and Annerose estranged. You kill Annerose and the de-facto ruler of the empire is going to just go completely batshit.
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Apr 18, 2018 21:05
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TheKingofSprings posted:That was years later, it's possible she cooled off a little bit about it with time. Sieg dies in episode 25 at the end of the Lippstadt Rebellion and Hilda meets with Annerose and agrees to let guards be posted in episode 36, which doesn't seem like years at all.
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Apr 18, 2018 21:06
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Kanos posted:Sieg dies in episode 25 at the end of the Lippstadt Rebellion and Hilda meets with Annerose and agrees to let guards be posted in episode 36, which doesn't seem like years at all. My bad, I haven't seen it in a long time and thought that happened with the Terraists later. I'm going through their conversation shortly after and "Now you have nothing left to lose." and "When you are weary, come see me. But you must not be weary yet." sound pissed off and backhanded to me and sounded that way back when I first saw it too.
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Apr 18, 2018 21:08
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AnacondaHL, 8 years ago posted:waffleimages lmao In honor of taking these screencaps 9 years ago, I shall remake the post because I inexplicably still have all these files on my computer:      
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Apr 18, 2018 22:14
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Things history doesn't like to talk about: Rudolf's side piece 
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Apr 18, 2018 22:40
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AnacondaHL posted:In honor of taking these screencaps 9 years ago, I shall remake the post because I inexplicably still have all these files on my computer: Man that's so... good. Especially since it isn't the DVD version adding an annoying blur filter to all the flashback scenes. (Which still beats some of the more obnoxious redraws.) I would love a cleaned up copy of the LaserDisc sources for LoGH... although at this point I'd settle for a disc set that wasn't $800.
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Apr 18, 2018 23:17
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Kircheis was only a little gay, he strongly preferred Annerose. Reinhard was super, super gay, but he knew such love was forbidden.
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Apr 19, 2018 00:32
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Billzasilver posted:Kircheis was only a little gay, he strongly preferred Annerose. Reinhard was super, super gay, but he knew such love was forbidden. This is it yeah.
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Apr 19, 2018 00:35
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Billzasilver posted:Kircheis was only a little gay, he strongly preferred Annerose. Reinhard was super, super gay, but he knew such love was forbidden. Pretty much. Reinhard is like two heartbeats away from kissing Siegfried on the lips while Sieg is dying.
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Apr 19, 2018 01:48
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So is it bad writing how Reinhard falls completely for Hilda despite being super gay? I guess he could be bisexual but I felt like his reaction after sleeping with her made him seem totally straight.
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Apr 19, 2018 02:37
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Captain Cappy posted:So is it bad writing how Reinhard falls completely for Hilda despite being super gay? I guess he could be bisexual but I felt like his reaction after sleeping with her made him seem totally straight. I don’t know that he ever really fell for her, he boned her while drunk and wanted to take responsibility. That whole sequence is actually pretty drat uncomfortable in today’s context.
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Apr 19, 2018 02:49
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Captain Cappy posted:So is it bad writing how Reinhard falls completely for Hilda despite being super gay? I guess he could be bisexual but I felt like his reaction after sleeping with her made him seem totally straight. Hilda's first appearance in the novels: It was on one such day that his eldest daughter Hilda made a brief return home from university on Odin. Hilda— the count’s daughter Hildegard von Mariendorf— had only just turned twenty. Her darkly shaded blond hair was cut short for ease of movement. There was a hard sort of beauty to her features, yet she didn’t give a cold or harsh impression, a fact likely due to the lively sparkle in her blue-green eyes. Those eyes were practically bursting with life and vibrant intellect, giving more the impression of an adventurous young boy. An old man with shiny pink cheeks met her in the mansion’s hall and bent his corpulent body forward in a bow. “Milady, it’s so good to see that you’re well.” “You’re looking well yourself, Hans. Where’s father?” “He’s in the sunroom. Shall I go and tell him you’re here?” “No need— I’ll go myself. Oh, can you bring coffee, please?” Aside from a pink scarf tied around her collar, the count’s daughter was attired no differently from a man, and she walked through the hallway with a rhythmic step. A pair of sofas had been placed by the wide sunroom’s window, and there in the sunlight, Count von Mariendorf sat with his back hunched forward, lost in thought. Looking Tanaka, Yoshiki. Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Vol.2: Ambition (Kindle Locations 723-734). Haikasoru. Kindle Edition.
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Apr 19, 2018 02:51
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TheKingofSprings posted:I don’t know that he ever really fell for her, he boned her while drunk and wanted to take responsibility. He's definitely more interested in the little boy he starts hauling around with him later
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Apr 19, 2018 02:56
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Baloogan posted:Hilda's first appearance in the novels: Basically what I expected. Time for me to finally buy book one I think. More people should read Legend of Galactic Heroes.
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Apr 19, 2018 02:58
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Raku posted:He's definitely more interested in the little boy he starts hauling around with him later Reinhard is a little hosed up honestly
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Apr 19, 2018 03:01
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Doc Hawkins posted:More people should read Legend of Galactic Heroes. YES 
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Apr 19, 2018 03:05
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TheKingofSprings posted:I don’t know that he ever really fell for her, he boned her while drunk and wanted to take responsibility. He was clearly crushing on her considering he showed up to her house with a bunch of flowers blushing and mumbled a bunch of poo poo to her father then ran away like a dork.
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Apr 19, 2018 03:10
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Captain Cappy posted:So is it bad writing how Reinhard falls completely for Hilda despite being super gay? I guess he could be bisexual but I felt like his reaction after sleeping with her made him seem totally straight. Yeah, uh, that reads entirely as a bad decision he made in a bad moment followed by a panic attack thinking he was as bad as the Kaiser for doing it and proposing to her for that reason. Hilda doesn't seem to have been especially into it either given her reaction. It's... really messed up.
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Apr 19, 2018 03:10
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Captain Cappy posted:He was clearly crushing on her considering he showed up to her house with a bunch of flowers blushing and mumbled a bunch of poo poo to her father then ran away like a dork. Well I mean it’s more like It’s hard for writers to write deep male friendships without it coming across as gay. Plus some people just want it to be gay for their own reasons and that’s fine, let them have that.
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Apr 19, 2018 03:12
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Captain Cappy posted:So is it bad writing how Reinhard falls completely for Hilda despite being super gay? I guess he could be bisexual but I felt like his reaction after sleeping with her made him seem totally straight. Kinsey scale is a thing and it's not common for people to be at either extreme of it. But the fact is that he is not separate from the culture of the Empire, and was still bound by its taboos. As soon as Reinhard felt the slightest attraction for someone whom he was socially able to love, he dove in headfirst. He's quite passionate, but he's also constrained by his acculturation. You think he would have bothered to overthrow the government and conquer the galaxy if he had a healthy way of dealing with his emotions?
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Apr 19, 2018 03:14
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Bongo Bill posted:Kinsey scale is a thing and it's not common for people to be at either extreme of it. Are.....are you arguing ambitious men are only that way because their closeted?
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Apr 19, 2018 03:17
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chill reinhard gettin laid in school just relaxed a f about the whole universe dies on a nameless imperial cruiser as a nameless lieutenant to chill yang who is also relaxed about the whole universe
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Apr 19, 2018 03:17
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TheKingofSprings posted:I don’t know that he ever really fell for her, he boned her while drunk and wanted to take responsibility. I mean, Reinhard is a loving psycho by any normal moral standards. The amount of death and destruction he cheerfully unleashes in pursuit of his batshit insane lust to politically unite the human race for his own self-aggrandizement is, or should be, a far bigger obstacle to being “comfortable” with his character than any amount of ill advised drunk sex he had with his secretary. Far more uncomfortable also than his personal conduct is the fact that as absolute monarch, he has every legal right to do absolutely whatever he pleases to his secretary and doesn’t see this as a problem because I would never do something so bad, not like that gross old kaiser. skasion fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Apr 19, 2018 |
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Apr 19, 2018 03:19
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CharlestheHammer posted:Are.....are you arguing ambitious men are only that way because their closeted? No, of course not. For one thing, I'm talking about the ambitions of a particular character who was, apparently, closeted; other characters, to say nothing of other people, are ambitious for all sorts of other reasons. An emotion that a person can't express - for any reason - is a powerful motivator. There were many ways in which he felt stifled, some of which he was able to acknowledge (like what happened to Annerose, as well as the condescension of the senior admiralty who doubted his ability) and some of which he was not. It was that sense of stifling that made him so driven; he projected it onto his entire social order, and dedicated himself to overthrowing it.
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Apr 19, 2018 03:22
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Reinhard is super embarrassed about what happens with hilde, I don’t think it has anything to do with affection in a romantic sense. It’s pretty outright stated that he is deeply ashamed because it’s something that he presumed happens only because of his status as Kaesar. He does the best he can to make it “right” which is behavior that is totally outside of his comfort zone and why it’s both awkward and a bit endearing. However, I think they both respect each other tremendously and that’s why they get together, not out of deep romance or even budding romance. My impression has always been that Reinhard is more or less asexual, and his deepest relationship happens to be with a man who he loves. That he ends up with an heir at all is happenstance, but I also don’t think outside of kirchiess as a very close friend he would be a homosexual in the traditional manner. Again, logh is deeply homoerotic but in the vein of 19th century military life where men had very deep, emotional relationships, that were not necessarily sexual in nature, (though certainly that’s as the case in some instances)
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Apr 19, 2018 03:25
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Bongo Bill posted:No, of course not. For one thing, I'm talking about the ambitions of a particular character who was, apparently, closeted; other characters, to say nothing of other people, are ambitious for all sorts of other reasons. An emotion that a person can't express - for any reason - is a powerful motivator. There were many ways in which he felt stifled, some of which he was able to acknowledge (like what happened to Annerose, as well as the condescension of the senior admiralty who doubted his ability) and some of which he was not. It was that sense of stifling that made him so driven; he projected it onto his entire social order, and dedicated himself to overthrowing it. I think it’s more likely he is just arrogant and thinks he can fix the problems of the empire. Rather than he is gay but sleeps with women mostly. Like he is obviously attracted to her even if it plays out weirdly.
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Apr 19, 2018 03:25
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I just don't feel like this is the face of someone who regrets what happened
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Apr 19, 2018 03:34
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reinhard and hilda's first meeting in the books, definitely a romance starting spot!   
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Apr 19, 2018 04:02
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sorry for book spam, but came across this relevant page 
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Apr 19, 2018 04:19
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Reinhard is clearly very vaguely into Hilde. She’s kinda hot, but more importantly she is incredibly smart. Even a super, super gay guy like Reinhard would be a little attracted to that. Although I have a different, more cynical take that he was also desperately trying to produce and heir to protect his empire.
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Apr 19, 2018 05:04
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Reinhard is kind of naive when it comes to poo poo other than matters of state and war. It's one of the big differences between him and Yang. He's like the Batman of governance; he lost a family member due to an injustice at a young age, and dedicated himself to correcting that through sheer willpower and know-how, to the detriment of basically every other aspect of what normal folks would call "life." I'm not really qualified to make any statements in regards to "BUT IS HE GAY REALLY AND HOW MUCH?" either way but it's fair to say that, in a variety of ways, typical social standards aren't really applicable to him
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Apr 19, 2018 05:29
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I do find it funny that the last two pages have half boiled down to:OnimaruXLR posted:"BUT IS HE GAY REALLY AND HOW MUCH?"
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Apr 19, 2018 06:29
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Less gay than the narrator of the books.
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Apr 19, 2018 06:50
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I'm now hearing logh narrated by George Takei.
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Apr 19, 2018 08:56
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