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Yes, torrified wheat is an acceptable substitute for flaked wheat. They are both gelatinized, but I think you might get just slightly more extract per mass from torrified wheat than flaked, just because of its "puffed" texture.
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Apr 19, 2018 03:06
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Newbie questions: I'm brewing my first saison and am trying to do everything 'correctly' by actually taking gravity measurements and using a secondary fermenter. First question: how much of a difference does it make if you allow the beer to sit for a week or two after fermentation ends when the gravity readings effectively stop changing? I know it's a common recommendation but I want to know what the yeast is actually doing during this time. Second question: Is it even worthwhile to use a secondary? I've been looking around online and this seems to be a mixed subject. Do you even get any benefit from siphoning over to a secondary vs just letting it sit in primary for another week?
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Apr 19, 2018 16:12
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Rex-Goliath posted:Newbie questions: I want to know what the yeast is actually doing during [after the active ferment stops and gravity stops dropping]. Settling out and doing some cleanup of byproducts, like acetaldehyde and diacetyl, which can cause off-flavors. Letting the beer rest during this period can lead to clearer, better-tasting beer. But there's no magic time period for this, and a large healthy pitch can ferment and finish faster. Especially in lower-gravity beers, for example, it's pretty easy to get from grain to glass (brewday to actually drinking the beer) inside two weeks, sometimes significantly inside. Rex-Goliath posted:Second question: Is it even worthwhile to use a secondary? I've been looking around online and this seems to be a mixed subject. Do you even get any benefit from siphoning over to a secondary vs just letting it sit in primary for another week? Many times, a single-stage ferment is just fine. I very rarely use a secondary fermenter myself, and I know a number of other people in this thread also do single-stage ferments. I honestly think that the use of secondary is a pretty outdated process in a homebrew setting. I think that it was pretty standard advice when my dad was brewing in the '70s because ingredients, yeast, and practices were not nearly as good as they are today. These days, we're making better worts and pitching more and healthier yeast, so the sediment is much less likely to cause off-flavors. And better sanitation isn't hurting anything, either.
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Apr 19, 2018 16:35
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Rex-Goliath posted:Newbie questions: I'm brewing my first saison and am trying to do everything 'correctly' by actually taking gravity measurements and using a secondary fermenter. First question: how much of a difference does it make if you allow the beer to sit for a week or two after fermentation ends when the gravity readings effectively stop changing? I know it's a common recommendation but I want to know what the yeast is actually doing during this time. It makes a significant difference. Leaving the beer in contact with the yeast for a bit gives it a chance to clean up some undesirable fermentation flavors (ie "green beer" flavors). Also secondary isn't really useful unless you're aging it long term or adding something like fruit, spices, etc. A lot of us don't bother with transferring to a secondary fermentor now.
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Apr 19, 2018 16:38
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Rex-Goliath posted:Newbie questions: I'm brewing my first saison and am trying to do everything 'correctly' by actually taking gravity measurements and using a secondary fermenter. First question: how much of a difference does it make if you allow the beer to sit for a week or two after fermentation ends when the gravity readings effectively stop changing? I know it's a common recommendation but I want to know what the yeast is actually doing during this time. Really important if you're unsure on a final gravity and, specifically, you're bottling the beer. Unfinished beer + priming sugar in bottling is a surefire step into gushers and bottle bombs. In my experience though, a diacetyl rest (raising the ambient temperature of your fermentation environment a few degrees) at the end of your primary fermentation cycle can do the same thing. My brewclub is multi-years into all of use brewing and a couple of our members still can't prime a bottle correctly. The downside to secondary is increased possibility of infection, oxidation, and time. I stopped doing it a long time ago because I wasn't really seeing any benefit.
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Apr 19, 2018 17:20
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The primary propenents of doing a secondary these days are home brew shops selling carboys
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Apr 19, 2018 17:27
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I still do a secondary to make bottling day easier. I use a bucket with a tap, and usually the trub is above the tap before I transfer it. Using a tap instead of a siphon makes it easier to bottle by myself, without someone making sure trub doesn't end up in the beer on the siphon end, and another person handling the bottling wand. The transfer from primary to secondary allows me to remove excess trub, and the clearly visible glass carboy makes it easier to see what I'm siphoning out when I siphon. The bucket is then usable again as a bottling device with the included tap. None of this is necessary, and beer with trub doesn't necessarily taste better or worse in double blind tasting, but sometimes people like the look of clear beer, and I don't blame them. Brulosophy has an interesting article on gelatin fining that confirms this notion that trub doesn't affect flavor in a blind triangle test, but the writer asserts they will continue fining their beers if for no other reason than the sake of aesthetics. I might even try the gelatin method on my next homebrew. http://brulosophy.com/2015/01/05/the-gelatin-effect-exbeeriment-results/
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Apr 19, 2018 18:28
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Toebone posted:The primary propenents of doing a secondary these days are home brew shops selling carboys Yeah this is what i figured. Thanks for the answers, everyone!
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Apr 19, 2018 21:08
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I could see a situation where I started conditioning a beer in secondary if I ran out of bottle space, but it's probably suboptimal. I had a crack at designing a simple recipe and was wondering if there are any potential problems or obvious improvements, especially when using honey. I'm aiming for a light, moderately bitter honey flavoured beer suitable to have as a refreshment on a sunny afternoon. The recipe: 4kg Golden Promise Pale Malt (81.6%) 0.9kg Honey (18.4%) - added after primary fermentation 20g Target (60min) 10g Goldings (10m) 5g Liberty (KO) Safale US-05 yeast Even though it's not too complicated it did highlight some areas I never really considered just following recipes. The hop choices are what I have lying around rather than calculated choices but I thought they'd work well enough. Beersmith estimates a FG of 1.005. Before I had a 3:1 malt to honey ratio and it was 1.003. How low would be too dry? Also, is there a limit to the alcohol content before it becomes unbalanced? I remember reading something saying a higher abv requires more body, but mead is pretty tasty and has little body. The other thing is that usually recipes call for a mash and boil time 60-90 mins long. Other than hop utilisation, is there any reason to go for a >60min boil time(same for the mash)? I'm brewing in a bag if that's relevant. Saving an hour on brewday is not insignificant.
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Apr 19, 2018 22:33
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Crack posted:Other than hop utilisation, is there any reason to go for a >60min boil time[...]? Some malts have the reputation of needing a longer boil to drive off DMS. Sometimes you want to drive off water - one of the best barleywines I ever made was a 4+ hour boil, as I recall, to get the volume down and gravity up. Sometimes you want color and flavor change - e.g., Scotch Ales sometimes call for a long boil. EDIT: Well, that's amusing. I'm cleaning out a closet in preparation for new flooring, and I found a box of beer dating back to 2000. Bigfoot and other strong commercial beers. I think it's all well past its prime (looks like the latest is ~2004) but I'm going to try them over the next few weeks. Jo3sh fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Apr 19, 2018 |
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Apr 19, 2018 22:43
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Finally bit the bullet and bought a rice cooker for doing rice wine - had too many issues with inconsistency trying to do glutintous rice on the stovetop. I'm sold on the fire-and-forget convenience, although the rice came out kinda soft and gelatinised relative to what you'd get steaming it. I didn't rinse it, but did do a 4 hour presoak before flicking it on. May try a shorter presoak and/or less water as it's totally edible, just not something I'd serve with Southeast Asian food and expect anyone to be impressed. Hopefully it'll be good for wine! The last one I did with the yeast balls came out smelling... like an amped up yeast ball (ie not good), was undrinkable, so I swiched back to Angel Rice Leaven for this one. I was getting kinda exasperated as I only had 1 good batch out of maybe 4 attempts, and it's ~3-4 weeks of waiting each time. If nothing else, the ease of the rice cooker should encourage more experimentation with this stuff - I have plenty of glutinous rice and yeast balls/ARL to play around with, just couldn't be bothered cooking it. robotsinmyhead posted:Really important if you're unsure on a final gravity and, specifically, you're bottling the beer. Unfinished beer + priming sugar in bottling is a surefire step into gushers and bottle bombs. In my experience though, a diacetyl rest (raising the ambient temperature of your fermentation environment a few degrees) at the end of your primary fermentation cycle can do the same thing. My brewclub is multi-years into all of use brewing and a couple of our members still can't prime a bottle correctly. Yeah, be especially careful of this with saison yeast. My only bottle bomb was from a saison, I asked about it here and apparently that strain is known for sometimes 'waking up' later. I've only used a secondary when I was fermenting a wheat ale on some cherries (which was delicious). Otherwise, never bothered. Jhet posted:There are things you could do, like washing the yeast or separating it from the sediment in suspension, but none that you absolutely need to do. Just be good with sanitation and you should be fine. This is common practice for a lot of people. Thanks for that!
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Apr 20, 2018 00:24
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Bentonite is magic. I got sick of my cider not clarifying (I started it October 3), so I racked onto a bentonite slurry and now a week later it's beautifully clear. Not entirely magic, though, because I put some in my 3 gallon mead batch 2 months ago and it's still cloudy. It worked on a different batch of mead, though, so maybe I just need to use more.
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Apr 20, 2018 01:57
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Bentonite, like clay? Interesting, I have never heard of it being used for that.
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Apr 20, 2018 03:22
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RE: Boil times. You can go for as short as 10 minutes if you really want as that'll be long enough to kill any microbes that will cause you souring. You can even make wonderful beer without boiling at all. 30 minutes just might be the new 90 minutes though as it's long enough to drive off DMS sufficiently and not too short where you can still have a higher hop utilization. That being said, I have done over 2 hours on a Scotch Ale and it was well worth the time. I've been moving to 30 minutes for pale ales and most of the lower ABV beers I've been making. I just don't need the 60 minutes for the hops. I just use Pectic enzyme prior to adding the yeast and my ciders have always come out crystal clear. Bentonite is similar to gelatin in that it's negatively charged ions will attract the yeast and other positively charge ions hazing up your wines. Fairly common in wine making. Granted, I also leave my cider sit in carboys for a long time. I still have 15 gallons from the fall that I haven't gotten around to drinking yet.
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Apr 20, 2018 03:37
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Crack posted:Also, is there a limit to the alcohol content before it becomes unbalanced? I remember reading something saying a higher abv requires more body, but mead is pretty tasty and has little body. I am also brewing a honey beer (saison) this weekend. I am aiming for 6 - 6,5% ABV. You can get "body" from other sources than just gravity. Examples include using protein, dextrin or beta-glucose rich malts, using large amounts of hops or adding oak for tannins, as well as carbonating either very low or very high. I'll be going for: 2.5 Kg Floor Malted Bohemian Pilsner (70,3%) 200 g Dark Munich (5,4%) 200 g Rye Malt (5,4 %) 700 g Wildflower Honey (18,9%) 25g East Kent Goldings (90 min) 25g East Kent Goldings (2 min) House Saison Culture (WLP565, 3726, 3711, Belle Saison, Lactobacillus Plantarum + Side Project, Jolly Pumpkin, BFM, Crooked Stave, Prairie, Cascade, Boulevard dregs) I'm guessing it will ferment down to 1.000, and I'll be carbonating to above 3 volumes. As for your other question, some people believe longer boils prevent DMS, but that's debatable at this point. I'm not in a hurry so I like the utilization.
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Apr 20, 2018 08:00
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Can anyone recommend an amount of toasted coconut per gallon for a noticeable but not overpowering coconut flavor? I'm planning on transfering my berliner wiese base onto some pineapple and coconut this weekend to have a go at the "pina colada" beer someone sent into the Sour Hour guys a while back. I'm using canned pineapple which I'll grill to caramelise a little and I'll be toasting the coconut on baking parchment to remove some of the fat.
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Apr 20, 2018 09:03
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From what I hear even ludicrous amounts will do little more than ruin your head retention, and one should go with extract/flavoring.
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Apr 20, 2018 11:52
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Jhet posted:RE: Boil times. You can go for as short as 10 minutes if you really want as that'll be long enough to kill any microbes that will cause you souring. You can even make wonderful beer without boiling at all. 30 minutes just might be the new 90 minutes though as it's long enough to drive off DMS sufficiently and not too short where you can still have a higher hop utilization. That being said, I have done over 2 hours on a Scotch Ale and it was well worth the time. I've been moving to 30 minutes for pale ales and most of the lower ABV beers I've been making. I just don't need the 60 minutes for the hops. After doing some research on the purpose of boiling and coming across some interesting brulosophy exbeerments I've come to essentially the same conclusion: there are specific reasons to do a longer boil, like concentrating wort or darker styles being enhanced by maillard reactions and caramelization, but there is no reason to default to doing one. That said I'm probably going to stick with 60 minutes until I have more experience under my belt. Biomute posted:I am also brewing a honey beer (saison) this weekend. I am aiming for 6 - 6,5% ABV. You can get "body" from other sources than just gravity. Examples include using protein, dextrin or beta-glucose rich malts, using large amounts of hops or adding oak for tannins, as well as carbonating either very low or very high. Yeah, I was thinking of body purely in terms of gravity and carbonating high seems like a good idea. Surely the other examples are just raising the amount of non-fermentables in solution though, and consequently would raise the gravity as well? Presumably even the level of carbonation would change the gravity, though probably lower it if effervescing.
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Apr 20, 2018 11:53
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I used toasted coconut exactly once - split and shredded a whole coconut by hand (would not recommend - get it processed in a bag, sans sugar and preservatives if possible). The flavor was nice, but really subtle and I'd probably use flavorings now. The fat content of coconut is extremely difficult to deal with and all my equipment had a fatty scum on it. The brightside was that my hands were never softer than after I got done cleaning it all up.
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Apr 20, 2018 12:27
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Rozzbot posted:Can anyone recommend an amount of toasted coconut per gallon for a noticeable but not overpowering coconut flavor? I did 4lbs of desscated coconut to 5g of beer and it was not overpowering. I think that's a reasonable amount for a light flavored beer. Mine was a bit overpowered by the cacao nibs I put in, but that was a separate problem. Head rentention was not good, but not as bad as some people say. https://foodtolive.com/shop/coconut/ Is there I got it. 4lbs bag is the size of a pillow. They also have lots of other interesting bulk dried ingredients for cheap.
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Apr 20, 2018 13:05
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Thanks for the tips! My sours have almost no head retention anyway so that's not a huge concern but I might go with the extract/route purely for the sake of convenience
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Apr 20, 2018 13:33
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rockcity posted:Bentonite, like clay? Interesting, I have never heard of it being used for that. Yup, I use it in my meads a lot. I'm very lazy though and I just add the stuff in plain and shake it a bunch once or twice a day for a couple days. Seems to do the trick.
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Apr 20, 2018 14:43
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Crack posted:Yeah, I was thinking of body purely in terms of gravity and carbonating high seems like a good idea. Surely the other examples are just raising the amount of non-fermentables in solution though, and consequently would raise the gravity as well? Presumably even the level of carbonation would change the gravity, though probably lower it if effervescing. There's a little more to it than that. The gravity is the amount of sugars, fermentable or no. You won't see much of a noticeable impact on your OG from using say wheat malt in place of some of your malted barley (if anything wheat malt has better extraction), and depending on your yeast the FG might not change all that much either (mine will ferment pretty much anything down to about 1.000). Yet, there's a distinct difference in the perceived mouthfeel or body when using these malts or adjuncts. Yeasts can also impact the body in a manner that does not correspond to gravity. Take 3711, it's a Saison yeast that will ferment beers extremely dry, and you'd expect the beers to turn out watery as a result, but since it's also a prodigious glycerol producer the beers made with it have a surprisingly silky mouthfeel. I don't see how the level of carbonation would affect the gravity to any meaningful degree. I mean, it would certainly affect your gravity reading if you tried using your hydrometer on a carbonated beer, but the tiny amount of sugar you would add if you were to bottle condition is not going to shift the final product much. However, highly carbonating a low gravity beer will help you stave off the perceived sensation of the beer being watery, as your mouth is busy with the fun bubbles and stuff. thotsky fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Apr 20, 2018 |
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Apr 20, 2018 17:32
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Thanks, that explanation makes sense. I was still thinking of body as some kind of objective chemical property, but it's actually the percieved mouthfeel. I was being a bit stupid with the carbonation, I was thinking more dissolved CO2 would lower gravity but obviously at the same temperature and pressure that would be constant anyway.
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Apr 21, 2018 10:46
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Belgian wit yeast is no joke kids. Only 3 hours in.
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Apr 21, 2018 15:12
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Marshmallow Blue posted:Belgian wit yeast is no joke kids. Only 3 hours in. That flask is not going to be large enough.
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Apr 21, 2018 17:02
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Fermcap will alleviate foaming issues, especially in a stirred starter.
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Apr 21, 2018 18:28
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Pham Nuwen posted:Bentonite is magic. I got sick of my cider not clarifying (I started it October 3), so I racked onto a bentonite slurry and now a week later it's beautifully clear. Behold, the result:  I did 14 of the 750mL bottles and 15 beer bottles which I intend to drink first. My previous batch of cider was only 3 gallons and I drank most of it in the first 6 months after bottling, so I'm hoping with this 5 gallon batch I can restrain myself a bit longer. The single bottle I managed to age a full year was excellent, and this is the same yeast and juice from the same orchard.
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Apr 21, 2018 21:04
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Pham Nuwen posted:Behold, the result: Still cider. I like it. Did you sulfite it at all to counter oxidation or did you do something else? The one time I've done still cider I ended up with oxidation issues, but it was also shipped cross country without temp control and then sat in a warehouse for a month, so that definitely exacerbated things.
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Apr 21, 2018 22:52
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Jhet posted:Still cider. I like it. Did you sulfite it at all to counter oxidation or did you do something else? The one time I've done still cider I ended up with oxidation issues, but it was also shipped cross country without temp control and then sat in a warehouse for a month, so that definitely exacerbated things. Didn't sulfite; the only thing I added was potassium sorbate along with the bentonite. I'm not sure what oxidized cider would taste like, but my previous batch turned out fine and this one tastes good too.If I'd been thinking ahead, I could have added a bit of sugar to the beer bottles to try and carbonate, but because I'd added the potassium sorbate I was out of luck.
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Apr 22, 2018 16:41
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Jo3sh posted:Fermcap will alleviate foaming issues, especially in a stirred starter. That stuff is a godsend for big aggressive starters.
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Apr 22, 2018 19:34
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Pham Nuwen posted:Didn't sulfite; the only thing I added was potassium sorbate along with the bentonite. I'm not sure what oxidized cider would taste like, but my previous batch turned out fine and this one tastes good too.If I'd been thinking ahead, I could have added a bit of sugar to the beer bottles to try and carbonate, but because I'd added the potassium sorbate I was out of luck. It mostly just darkened into an amber color and highlighted the sweet. It was highly fortified with honey and raw sugar, so the high ABV in the liquid gold recipe really helped it keep alright considering. I still should have done something to stabilize, and I would do for anything still again.
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Apr 23, 2018 03:11
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When brewing with a significant amount of honey (20+%), I've read that it should be added in the high growth phase of fermentation, so the yeast can produce the necessary enzymes to break down the sugars from the malt and so the honey flavours don't get boiled off. Given this, what should the pitching rate be? e.g. the wort has an OG of 1.045 from the kettle, ~24 hrs later enough honey is added to give it another 20 points, should I calculate pitching rate for 1.045 or 1.065? I'm assuming I only need to worry about the 1.045 gravity as similar to a starter the yeast will reproduce enough to handle it, but I thought I'd check.
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Apr 24, 2018 14:07
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It would almost certainly be fine either way. Personally, I'd probably just play it somewhere in the middle and call it a day.
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Apr 24, 2018 14:44
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Crack posted:When brewing with a significant amount of honey (20+%), I've read that it should be added in the high growth phase of fermentation, so the yeast can produce the necessary enzymes to break down the sugars from the malt and so the honey flavours don't get boiled off. More importantly, the yeast would much rather eat the simple sugars of the honey and become too lazy to ferment all the more complex malt sugars. Adding the honey later also helps preserve the aroma.
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Apr 24, 2018 16:24
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Marshmallow Blue posted:More importantly, the yeast would much rather eat the simple sugars of the honey and become too lazy to ferment all the more complex malt sugars. Adding the honey later also helps preserve the aroma. There was an interview/article/recipes from the priest from Dallas/FW that won the Ninkasi Award last year (?) in BYO a few months back. He explained his formula for adding D180 to his Dark Strong is to make the yeast work on the more complex sugars (malt) first and then hit it with the D180 (simpler sugar) as the fermentation is winding down. I've never made a Dark Strong (want to), but this makes waaaaaaaaay too much sense to me. My bet is not enough people use this logical (to me) approach. I'll have some time off in a few weeks, so ready to start filling the kegs with some summer goodness.
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Apr 24, 2018 16:41
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I've doped beer with sugar syrups to increase ABV and always do it after/during high kreusen. I thought it was a tribal knowledge thing that everyone did.
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Apr 24, 2018 17:39
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LaserWash posted:I've never made a Dark Strong (want to), Totally worth it. I haven't done one in years, but I found a few bottles I had held back just a few weeks ago, and it was still awesome. I used D1 syrup in mine (80L, I think) rather than D180. Use Wyeast 3787, and let the ferment get hot (80 to 85 degrees Fahrenheit) for best results.
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Apr 24, 2018 17:50
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LaserWash posted:I've never made a Dark Strong (want to) A++ Would brew again. I've done it twice, the first was with/for a friend. Then I enjoyed it so much that I did 10 gallons for myself and tossed it in a whisky barrel. It's wonderful and I'm excited to drink it, but it's to the point of the year where I'm craving lighter ales and it came out at 13%. Maybe for a dinner party, but it's just going to sit for a while still in bottles.
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Apr 24, 2018 18:51
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robotsinmyhead posted:I've doped beer with sugar syrups to increase ABV and always do it after/during high kreusen. I thought it was a tribal knowledge thing that everyone did. I do this with Demerara sugar for most of my brown ales. It works really well. Edit: it also seems to “wake up” the yeast a bit. I stalled for a couple days around 1.015 and once I added the sugar (sometimes 1 lb sometimes .5 lb) it pretty quickly ate it down under 1.010 after the bump up from the sugar. Fork of Unknown Origins fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Apr 24, 2018 |
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Apr 24, 2018 21:57
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